WW LXXX: It's About Time!

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

"She for whom the moon doth shine, what dost thou think of Eomer's vote?"

Meaningful? Or just an in-joke that no-one else can understand?

Inside joke, Shasta and Nerwen always call each other by overly romantic nicknames. So he was directing the question to Nerwen.

I think the reason Shasta was killed is probably simply because he didn't vote. On the first Night I think most packs just want an easy kill without any trail, and someone who didn't vote is the perfect candidate for that.

Even though TEW ended up being a wolf, that whole bandwaggon still erks me. He had posted only once when people started voted him, and it was banter. It's kind of mean killing someone when they aren't around to even try and defend themselves, and haven't really had the chance to say anything.

For the TEW voters, I think Skip's vote looks alright, he had to vote fairly early in the Day, when for all he know TEW would be around quite a bit, and he went off a gut thing, which is a normal thing when you vote early, not usually much to go on. Fea's vote is okish. Boro's vote atleast has a pretty good reason, kind of.

It's Lottie's that bugs me. She had done this whole 'check' system, and ended up voting for someone that had no 'checks' for anything, rather than one of the people she had given 'wolf checks' for. Here's the post:

Originally Posted by Lottiepop

Anyways, the only people who got checks under "wolf" are Agan, Vanilwuffin, and Boro. Boro also has three "innocent" checks, however, while Vanilwuffin has one "innocent" check. The only other people of note were Fea, who got a whopping four "cobbler" checks and one "innocent" check, and Eomer and TEWie, who got nothing. I might vote for one of them for being so quiet.

So there were 3 of us who had a 'check' for wolf, but when she voted none of us had votes so maybe she didn't want to throw away a vote. But she seemed to really think Fea could be the cobbler, though later said she'd almost definitely not vote for her. So why vote for someone who had no 'wolf' checks, over someone who had four 'cobbler' ones? At the time she voted, voting for Fea would not have been a throwaway. Oh, I know now you're saying 'but she sealed TEWs fate, she mustn't be a wolf', but when she voted Boro had basically said he'd be voting for TEW, and I had recently said I was planning to before I changed my mind. So it could still be a wolf on wolf.

I don't know, out of the 4 votes for him, this one is the fishiest.

So, I have to go to work in about 3 hours, and my shift extends past the DL, so I will be voting very early.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwa

I think the reason Shasta was killed is probably simply because he didn't vote. On the first Night I think most packs just want an easy kill without any trail, and someone who didn't vote is the perfect candidate for that.

I don't know, I never get the "trail less" kill theory while the seer is still alive. I would think losing one of their own this soon they would be trying to kill the seer with each choice, at least that's my opinion.

Unless they think they've got the seer already and maybe feared the ranger picked up on it too and would immediately protect. Or they could feel like they aren't necessarily going to grab the attention of the seer this soon, so they can go for some other, less predictable kills.

I just always operate under the opinion, as a wolf, get the seer first, but that could be more because I tend to be ousted by the seer at some point or another, so getting rid of seer before xe can do so is always my top priority. Might not be the same for all packs, I admit.

[Nerwen]

Reactions to The Wolf-warrior's plight.

Note:"irrelevant" posts are those in which players defended themselves or other players (other than EW), or replied to earlier comments. Posts judged relevant are those including any comment on EW, any suspicion of another player, and vote-posts. (Also banter, just in case it's an attempt at distraction..)

Missing numbers are posts by Inzil, who I think is in the clear.

#60.

Originally Posted by Skip

Okay, I'm back and as I should have been in bed hours ago I gotta take a quick shot from the hip (and in all fairness any vote at this point is just that).

The Elf-Warrior has only made one post so far but there's just something about the timing and the subject matter and the phrasing of that post that seems a bit sinister to me.

Especially the last part, which I highlighted. There's something potentially euphemistic about that phrase. Possibly veiled wolfish banter. Only one way to find out:

++The Elf-warrior

At this time there was one vote on Greenie (Eomer), two on Fea (Greenie and Pitch) and one on Sally (Agan).


Sally (#61) –irrelevant.


Lottie (#62). On EW "Personally, I think it's just banter. It came early in the Day and I think someone else had even mentioned food in their banter post earlier." (In same post, mildly defends Pitch, Wilwa and Fea; will "keep an eye" on Shasta.)


(#63) Sally votes Pitch.


Fea (#64) –irrel.


Wilwa (#65). –irrel.


Boro (#67). Banter.

Sally (#68). –irrel.


Sally (#70). –irrel.


#71.

Originally Posted by Lottie

Bleh. I went through the thread, giving people checks under "wolf", "cobbler", and "innocent", and now the person I suspect most is also the person I trust most. Agan, thank you for confusing me.

Anyways, the only people who got checks under "wolf" are Agan, Vanilwuffin, and Boro. Boro also has three "innocent" checks, however, while Vanilwuffin has one "innocent" check. The only other people of note were Fea, who got a whopping four "cobbler" checks and one "innocent" check, and Eomer and TEWie, who got nothing. I might vote for one of them for being so quiet.

Wilwa (#72) –banter.


Sally (#73). Banter, thinks Boro's post at #67 is "weird".


#74.

Originally Posted by Fea

++Elf

Not because I particularly suspect her (I reserve opinions until Day 2, as everyone knows) but because I have nobody better to vote for and because with a village this small, odds are solid that if I threw a rock I'd hit a wolf. And because she's quiet, and you can't analyze a statue.

Lottie (#76) corrects Fea on EW's gender; banter.


Fea (#77) apologies to EW, saying she thought he was The Great Elven Warrior.


Boro (#78). –semi-irrelevant: explains why he will not vote Agan, Fea or Pitch.


Sally (#79) asks Lottie to explain her "checks" (see #71).


Wilwa (#80) comments on the wide spread of the votes; has no real suspect but will probably vote someone already voted so as not to make a throwaway. Does not want to vote Fea, Sally or Greenie; "clueless" about Pitch and The Wolf-warrior. Might vote one of them.


And now Mr Fenris himself, on Fea's mistake:
#81.

Originally Posted by The Wolf-warrior

Apology accepted. However, I feel compelled to vote for...

++Feanor

It's a matter of self preservation, mah dear.

Comment: Oddly, nobody seems to pick up the rather sinister tone of this post– Wolf-warrior was, after, casting a likely death-vote, and in danger himself. He just seems so relaxed about it– could this all have been planned? A foolhardy strategy with only three wolves in the pack, though.


#82.Reply to Sally (#79) asking about "checks".

Originally Posted by Lottie

Anything that jumped out at me as innocent, wolvish, or cobblerish, I marked down. It wasn't a very sophisitcated system at all.

As for the voted people, I won't vote Pitch (he's my second most trusted person, apparently). Not Sally or Greenie, either...and almost definitely not Fea. TEWie it probably is, then...

EDIT: xed with TEWie, and maybe more people, since I haven't checked to see who ended the last page yet.

#83.

Originally Posted by Sally

I'd prefer holding off on Elf, since he's not been here in hours. I'd hate to lynch him in his absence, at least on Day One. It could end really poorly.

EDIT: x'd sine Muffin's quoted post. Ah, the prodigal Elf appears....

#84. Response to The Wolf-warrior's vote-post.

Originally Posted by Boro

The votes are spread out enough where surely you could have gone with someone else maybe a little suspicious other than "for self-preservation"

Now you are forcing my hand to you or Fea, and you weren't someone I said "no lynch."

A weak reason for voting EW– he was in danger precisely because the votes were spread out. It does indeed look "forced".
(You know, I don't know about likely, but it would certainly be bloody hilarious if the wolves were EW, Fea and Boro, and this post respresented Boro wringing his hands in despair.)


#85. Response to Sally at #83.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Yeah, once I went back and realised his only posts are one banter and a vote, I really don't want to. And I feel quite good about the girls on the line,
so that leaves me with:

++Pitch

x'ed with Boro

#86.

Originally Posted by Lottie

++Elf

Sorry, TEWie.

#87

Originally Posted by Boro

++Elf-Warrior

Edit: crossed with Lottie.

#89. (Response to Boro at #84 and EW's vote-post. 2 minutes after DL.)

Originally Posted by Sally

This. You didn't have to vote for Fea, you chose her because she was an easy target. There wasn't self-preservation on your mind there.

Comments: Well, I'll take my hat off to the baddies. If any wolves were around in the latter part of the Day, when The Wolf-warrior started to get into trouble, they played it very cool indeed. Nobody hit the panic button at any point; however Sally (#83) and Wilwa (#85) are the ones who look most as if they might be trying to rescue him at the eleventh hour. (Sally does a Legate-180 at #89, but that's too late to mean anything, either way.)

Lottie and Boro look better– they both cast what each must have thought would be the decisive vote on The Wolf-warrior. (Boro crossed with Lottie.) At this point both Fea and Pitch were also available for lynching, and they couldn't both be wolves if either of the others were.

EDIT: X'd since Agan at #115 (this took a long time, and there were interruptions.)

[skip spence]

Okay, I’ve been looking at the voting yesterDay to see what can be learned from it, trying to be reasonably objective. We must also remember that DL is in the middle of the night for the Europeans and that they therefore as a general rule must vote earlier than the North American who often can be around up until the DL.

*First there was Eomer giving Greenie an early vote. To me it looked like a random yet honest vote. But it is of course possible that he’s wolf trying to look inconspicuous too.

*Then Greenie votes Fea, because she stood out for being smug and confessing to be a wolf. Looks potentially a bit opportunistic too me (in the scenario that Fea is innocent and she is not), but I understand she had to be in bed early and can perhaps be excused for being a bit hasty.

*Third to vote is Pitch who puts Fea in a tight spot, giving her a second vote. Her post are “content-free and studiedly inscrutable” and her defence of earlier post are “over-defensive”. As a second vote for anyone at this point can be crucial this vote should be remembered.

*Then Agan votes Sally because she is very quiet and because Agan don’t want to be part of a Fea bandwagon. Agan also states that she considered voting Elf-warrior for the same reasons.

I then give Elf-warrior his first vote.

*Sally votes Pitch because “[his] case against Fea puts him on my hit list, because....well, it's just not quite right somehow”

*With less than an hour until the DL, Fea gives Elf his second vote. “not because I particularly suspect her (I reserve opinions until Day 2, as everyone knows) but because I have nobody better to vote for” It’s notable how careful she is not to mention self-preservation, as this surely is an issue at this point?


Now with less than 10 minutes left of the Day, almost than half the village - and at least one wolf - is yet to vote, so anything can still happen. Vote tally at this point: 2 Fea, 2 Elf, 1 Pitch, 1 Greenie, 1 Sally


*Elf is first to make the move, going for Fea to save his own furry backside. This decision makes me think better of Fea, as there were other alternatives the wolf could have gone for as well. It doesn’t clear her.

*Next to vote is Wilwa who in a rather non-committing way opens up the Pitch-alternative by giving him a second vote, something which can be seen as an indirect support for Elf, which also Agan has pointed out. Wilwa states that she feels pretty good about the girls on the line, and has already said she’d probably vote for either Elf of Pitch. If she really wanted Fea to live a vote on Elf and not Pitch would make more sense to me. Yet she goes for Pitch.

*Then, just before the bell tolls, Lottieand Boro seals Elf-wolf’s fate. Although anything is possible, I really don’t think they would've made that choice if either one of them are wolves. Unless Fea, or to a lesser degree Pitch, is also a wolf, in which case it would make perfect sense.

People I feel slightly better about now: Fea (more for Elf's vote on her that her vote on him), Boro and Lottie

People I feel more worried about: Wilwa (and I don't really like her accusation of Lottie either) Edit: and, I forgot (thanks Nerwen!), Sally, who also appears with a plead not too lynch Wolf, I mean Elf. But too obvious if she also is a wolf perhaps?

[wilwarin538]

Uh, so I hate doing this, but I really have to go, and I definitely won't be able to come back (can't go on the internet at work). I wish I had more time to make a stronger case on someone, but I don't

++Lottie

Based off her vote yesterDay and the inconsistency that it had with her 'check' system, not very strong, but all I got right now. My participation should be far better next Day.

[Nerwen]

As several people have asked about this: Shasta's "she for whom the moon doth shine" definitely refers to me. This is a long-standing joke between us.

Originally Posted by Skip

Then, just before the bell tolls, Lottie and Boro seals Elf-wolf’s fate. Although anything is possible, I really don’t think they would've made that choice if either one of them are wolves. Unless Fea, or to a lesser degree Pitch, is also a wolf, in which case it would make perfect sense

I'm not sure about that. Say Lottie was a wolf and so was Fea– then what's to stop Lottie voting Pitch, who couldn't, in this version of events, also be a wolf?

I don't say this is quite conclusive, mind you– either of them might have guessed the other would vote The Elf-warrior, and so written him off.

Originally Posted by Skip

People I feel more worried about: Wilwa (and I don't really like her accusation of Lottie either) Edit: and, I forgot (thanks Nerwen!), Sally, who also appears with a plead not too lynch Wolf, I mean Elf. But too obvious if she also is a wolf perhaps?

No, because all the reasons people were giving for voting EW were pretty flimsy– it wouldn't look that surprising if someone objected. The problem's more the other way: it really isn't that surprising that someone objected. That is, it's a long way from being a clear sign of guilt, for either the Cupcake or the Muffin. (Interesting that Sally hung around the whole time though, when she'd cast her vote ages ago.)

Originally Posted by Wilwa

I think the reason Shasta was killed is probably simply because he didn't vote. On the first Night I think most packs just want an easy kill without any trail, and someone who didn't vote is the perfect candidate for that.

That's nice, Wilwa– but people have been talking about this very point a lot, and have already raised the question of why the wolves didn't try for the Seer, or eliminate one of the Elf-voters who might be hard to lynch now, or frame someone.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Even though TEW ended up being a wolf, that whole bandwaggon still erks me. He had posted only once when people started voted him, and it was banter. It's kind of mean killing someone when they aren't around to even try and defend themselves, and haven't really had the chance to say anything.

It irks you that the village caught a wolf on Day One? Really?

Originally Posted by Wilwa

So there were 3 of us who had a 'check' for wolf, but when she voted none of us had votes so maybe she didn't want to throw away a vote. But she seemed to really think Fea could be the cobbler, though later said she'd almost definitely not vote for her. So why vote for someone who had no 'wolf' checks, over someone who had four 'cobbler' ones? At the time she voted, voting for Fea would not have been a throwaway. Oh, I know now you're saying 'but she sealed TEWs fate, she mustn't be a wolf', but when she voted Boro had basically said he'd be voting for TEW, and I had recently said I was planning to before I changed my mind. So it could still be a wolf on wolf.

I don't know, out of the 4 votes for him, this one is the fishiest.

Thing is, though, it's not really clear what reasons Lottie had for voting EW at the time, and I'm not sure "cobbler checks" mean much when you're talking about Fea. (I'd certainly like Lottie to clarify this when she gets back, however.)

I actually agree that it's at least possible for her vote to have been wolf-on-wolf; however, calling it "the fishiest" of the four is quite a stretch, indeed. Not to mention all those other votes that weren't for a known wolf.

So, Wilwa isn't looking too good, after this post. But then she goes ahead and votes Lottie, who is probably not going to be lynchable toDay– not a good example of lupine opportunism.

I'm going to have to vote now, though, and it will probably be Vanilwa Muffin.

EDIT:typo.

[Nerwen]

Anyway–

++Wilwa.

I probably won't be back before DL, so good luck!

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm here, not much time now but I'll do what I can.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

His vote for Fea, if you look at the post again, with its almost total lack of content, looks like a rushed post. His lack of participation, as a whole, adds credence to that idea.

The few times I've played with him, he's been rather silent regardless of his role, and quietness shouldn't really speak in favour of someone's innocence, anyway.

To borrow one of Shasta's other sayings: "very fishy". Looks to me like there's something going on with those EW voters.

What do you mean? That the people who voted for him are suspicious - because they chanced to kill a wolf?

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm your man.

I want a doctor!

Question 1: are two votes a bandwagon?

When they come relatively early, I think you could call it the start of a bandwagon even though people don't necessarily join it later.

He didn't look seerish at all, and if the wolves wanted to frame someone with their kill they would probably have picked someone with more pronounced opinions.

I agree. I kind of wonder if it means the wolves thought they were so safe they could afford to kill someone who didn't look like the seer.

Making a random-ish Day 1 vote on a fellow who has not been suspected at all during the Day is relatively safe (or at least is if you forget to consider the size of the village).

I find it highly unlikely the wolves forget that - they're probably fully aware of how many days they have to survive in order to win, and losing even one fellow is too much. Of course I might be wrong - maybe they decided to sacrifice one of them at an early stage so the others would look better... But it makes so much less sense to me, I wouldn't be too worried about it at the moment.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So yeah, the last several experiences with having some sort of involvement with the cobbler has just failed.

Ahh, I wasn't aware of that. Poor you - it must have felt almost as bad as being busted by a quiet gifted.

You are right, I will throw packmates under the bus, but to think I do it randomly and whenever the chance comes to "look better" is just wrong, hun.

And I (or anybody else) have no way of knowing if it was actually random or not. Just pointing out.

Which begs the question, maybe he had no packmates left to vote and he was really feeling the heat?

That's a fair point.

But no, he tried to make it look like he didn't want to vote for Fea at all, the only reason he wanted to was to save himself.

The same way I could say you looked like you didn't want to vote for him, the only reason you wanted to do so was because he had just screwed up by making a vote that forced you to choose between him and Fea (who you had already said you didn't want to vote for).

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

On the first Night I think most packs just want an easy kill without any trail, and someone who didn't vote is the perfect candidate for that.

Sounds sensible - except it doesn't solve the riddle why they didn't go after someone who looked a bit more like the seer. Or didn't they simply have any clue about the seer's identity? Grr now I'm obsessed about this...

He had posted only once when people started voted him, and it was banter.

Yeah, you could argue it was unfair - but regardless of his role, it can also be said it was unfair for the rest of us he didn't post much and let us know what he thought. If we hadn't killed him, he would probably have slipped under everybody's radar - and if he had been eg. the seer, the wolves couldn't probably have detected him. Not that it would necessarily have been a bad thing, but personally I would've felt sorry for the wolves (completely regardless of my role).
A few months ago, I would have been at wilwa's throat for looking like she tried to save a wolf and even daring to say afterwards that she felt bad he was killed the way he was, but having met her in person I can totally see her doing that also as an innocent because, well, she's just sweet like that. I'm sorry if this sounds somehow exclusive, but I can't really help it.

It's Lottie's that bugs me. She had done this whole 'check' system, and ended up voting for someone that had no 'checks' for anything, rather than one of the people she had given 'wolf checks' for.

Yeah that was a bit weird. But you have to remember it's sometimes easier to go for a submarine on day 1 (like, I voted for a quiet one rather than somebody I suspected a bit)... And she only voted after you said you'd rather not spread the votes too much.
I, too, am kind of curious about why she didn't vote for Fea though. Not that I mind because I have no major qualms about Fea's behaviour, but I'm of the opinion anybody shouldn't be ignored because she might be "just" the cobbler. It's almost as important to find the cobbler as the wolves, even though she isn't quite as strong in this game as she's been in some others, and if I had to choose between someone I was mildly suspicious of and someone I was pretty certain was the cobbler, I'd totally vote for the cobbler.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

getting rid of seer before xe can do so is always my top priority.

It's of course possible we have sneaky under-the-radar type of wolves who believe they will not be early dreams... Or wolves who want us to believe so.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

(You know, I don't know about likely, but it would certainly be bloody hilarious if the wolves were EW, Fea and Boro, and this post respresented Boro wringing his hands in despair.)

Hahaha that would be hilarious! Poor Boro!

If any wolves were around in the latter part of the Day, when The Wolf-warrior started to get into trouble, they played it very cool indeed.

Well, statistically it's likely we have at least one European wolf. I'm generally not a big fan of statistics, but I, too, noticed the lack of "should I vote for him or try to save him yes no yes no aieee" kind of wavering at deadline. Boro came closest to it, but even he wasn't very bad.

Originally Posted by skip spence

Eomer --- To me it looked like a random yet honest vote.

How can it look honest (or dishonest) when there's so little to base it on?

If she really wanted Fea to live a vote on Elf and not Pitch would make more sense to me.

But did she? If you don't have a really strong feeling about someone's role, you don't usually care that much about whether they die or not, so accusing wilwa of not saving Fea by voting the proper person seems far-fetched to me. And actually I think wilwa's reason for choosing Pitch over EW was quite decent. Yes she might be a wolf, but she could also have done it as an innocent.

I have to go now. I'll try to pop in every now and then, but I'm not sure how much time I have to post.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Aganzir, how can you make such a long post on Day Two? It's quite frankly ridiculous.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about my position, though. I already explained why I think the EW voting was suspicious: that being, I didn't see any good reasoning for it. And what do you know? They caught a wolf. I don't see how it was deduced, so I'm guessing it was either lucky or contrived.

Of course the tendency is to say that, though there may be a wolf in among them, the EW voters are squeaky-clean. But I have a bad feeling about it. If the two wolves are among the four voters, one at least is gonna get a free ride right to the end of the game.

But it's dangerous to get fixated on one hypothesis, so I'm going to have to think about other villagers now.

Be back soonish.

[Pitchwife]

Got home late and just caught up. Some quick thoughts:

I couldn't find anything that would have looked particularly Seerish in Shasta's few posts, but I'm puzzled by this:

Originally Posted by Fea #101

If Shasta was killed for looking Seerish, this exonerates Lottie, since Shasta said she might be the cobbler, and the wolves would not know who the cobbler is, nor would Shasta-seer be able to actually tell the difference between cobbler and ordo.

Where did Shasta say anything about Lottie being the cobbler? All I could find was this:

Originally Posted by Shasta #34

I could easily vote for Lottie, though - she's said next to nothing which is entirely unlike her.

No mention of cobblery here.

(Speaking of Lottie, I too would be very interested in hearing what those checks she mentioned were based on, and how she got from giving Fea 'four cobbler checks' to 'almost definitely not' voting her.)

Originally Posted by Nerwen #104

If Elf had turned out innocent, this would have looked like one blatant, eeevilll bandwagon.

Yep. When I read the thread and saw the votes piling up against him, my first thought was 'Oh no, another Blind Guardian!' - only this time it turned out lucky. So I totally understood sally's reservations against it.

Originally Posted by Boro #120

And you know, if one of the late voters after him was a fellow packmate, he should have felt a bit of security. Which begs the question, maybe he had no packmates left to vote and he was really feeling the heat?

Possible. If so, this would obviously speak for wilwa, Lottie and (by lucky coincidence) yourself.

As for wolvish involvement in the TEWagon, I have a hard time imagining that they would sacrifice one of their own so early. If he'd been a little further ahead in the votes, I could see a packmate deciding he was burnt meat anyway and giving him the final push, but with him and Fea being tied until Boro's decisive vote, that doesn't seem plausible.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

It irks you that the village caught a wolf on Day One? Really?

While I find it difficult to get a read on Wilwa, I think this is pretty unfair word-twisting, Nerwen. I believe she has the same feeling I have about EW's lynching, but she just phrased it in a different way.

Just a note: all these nicknames are confusing me. It's hard to tell who you're talking about, referencing various confectionary treats. I'll probably vote for those who use this ploy too frivolously.

[Boromir88]

I didn't realize how late it was and I'm not going to be back until after the DL, so my vote will be coming in this post.

In response to Agan. I don't approach Day 1s with the same contempt that others do, but I have probably a much different method than what is normal. That is, I find it very hard to come up with random suspicions against anyone, everything winds up "could be doing this, or could be doing that, I have no idea about..." So, in the experimental larger games, I typically say something controversial, to get attention and people talking about me and from there I can sort out who looks evil and rotten and who doesn't. But in the straight-forward ones like this, I can't make some kind of hint about the "great and almighty Zeus" if Zeus isn't a role, ya know?

What happens is I find it far easier to figure out who I trust more, and don't want to see lynched than coming up with actual suspicions. This narrows down my list, like...ok don't want Fea, Agan, or Pitch gone today. (Note, these are all flexible at anytime. Like for instance, today I'm feeling far more trusting of Skip today than yesterday. Mostly because some of his comments, I don't know just don't look like what a wolf would think about making. Fea and Eomer haven't done anything to make me feel better about them, but they also haven't done anything to make me lose trust). I look to see who has votes. Shall the list stay at the number? Do I want to add in another name of someone I'm more suspicious of? And as you can see, the way I approach Day 1 typically winds up with me making a vote because I don't want someone lynched, more so than I DO strongly want to lynch someone. I put quotes suspects yesterday (sally, Lottie, and wilwa) because I use that term loosely. Yesterday looked like they were trying to do something, something that was off-character, but no idea whether it was for better or worse.

I'm pretty wary of all this attention being focused around the 4 TEW voters. I mean to assume that it was too lucky to have hit and one of them had to be a packmate is not necessarily right. Agan you said that I forced myself into that position by declaring earlier that I did not want Fea lynched. But you're not looking at how late that post came. If I'm a wolf with TEW, just think if how late that post came if it makes sense for a wolf to actually make it? Had I been concerned about saving, TEW or not, I wouldn't have even made that post. I would have caught up on what I missed, and made my vote earlier to not leave TEW in that situation.

You may not believe me, but Lottie is probably the most familiar one here with my wolf habits now, because of our most recent history. I saved her rear-end on Day 1, because I cast an early vote for her and made it purposefully look like a bandwagon, so the "counter save Lottie from bandwagon liberation front" would start. I guarantee, not to boast, but if I was TEWs packmate, he would not have been stuck in that situation with 5 minutes left in the DL. I would have either went ahead and pushed him in the lead to seal his death, or voted in an attempt to save him. I did neither, I held to the very last minute to make up my mind already, and got fortunate. My primary focus that last hour would have been what to do to help TEW, or myself, not writing a post about who I felt good about and not want to see lynched.

++sally

This is going to be a terrible Day 2 vote, but I've gotta be gone in 20 minutes and won't be back til after DL. Basically it boils down to I don't like the look of all her little posts hinting towards people shouldn't trust me. If you don't, and think I'm suspicious, or whatever, fine that's your choice. But The several posts of "Boro's post here is creepy." "Boro's up to something, just don't know what" look like attempts to sow distrust and suspicion. And I have to wonder why an innocent sally would be trying to do something like that. Can't think of a reason.

[A Little Green]

I didn't realize how late it was, either! And I was supposed to not be busy this week, but it seems I am after all. Well, here I am, anyway, I'll post, then vote, then go to bed.

So, a quick summary of what I think of my fellow villagers:
Agan - My gut says innocent; my logic would warn me against an Agan who doesn't annoy me at all. So I don't know.
Pitch - Mr. Agreeable is a bit less pronouncedly agreeable than the average Pitchwolf, but I don't entirely trust how easy and careful he is.
Boro - Confuses me to no end. I was about to write that I'm leaning towards thinking he's not a wolf, but then I realised I'm not. I don't like his constant "I wouldn't do this if I was a wolf" -arguments.
Sally - Another confusing one, might be worth a closer look.
Lottie - Hmm. I'm getting both good and evil vibes from her, more the latter, though. I agree that her vote was somewhat fishy.
skip - Seems genuine, I'm not worried about him right now.
Eomer - Likewise, though I could actually also see him as a wolf.. Eurgh, this game is making me paranoid.
Nerwen - Ouch. Every time I hazard a guess at her role I'm wrong. This time though I have no guesses at all. Could be anything.
Wilwa - Leaning suspicious. Her vote yesterDay is not improving her in my book. But I'm quite baffled by this thing between her and Lottie - they both look rather fishy I think, but I'm not sure if their mutual suspicion could be wolf-on-wolf.. Somehow I think it improbable that the last two wolves would want their names linked together in any way whatsoever, they need to be careful.
Fea - I'm not discarding the possibility of a happily sniggering Feawolf, but I'm not going to vote her toDay.

What have we got, then? The ones I'm least easy with are Wilwa and Lottie, but I don't think they are wolves together, so even if I'm right about one I'm probably wrong about the other.. My vote will go for one of the two toDay anyway, probably Wilwa because I've seen more of her than Lottie.

Back with my vote post soon.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

It's Lottie's that bugs me. She had done this whole 'check' system, and ended up voting for someone that had no 'checks' for anything, rather than one of the people she had given 'wolf checks' for. Here's the post:



So there were 3 of us who had a 'check' for wolf, but when she voted none of us had votes so maybe she didn't want to throw away a vote. But she seemed to really think Fea could be the cobbler, though later said she'd almost definitely not vote for her. So why vote for someone who had no 'wolf' checks, over someone who had four 'cobbler' ones? At the time she voted, voting for Fea would not have been a throwaway. Oh, I know now you're saying 'but she sealed TEWs fate, she mustn't be a wolf', but when she voted Boro had basically said he'd be voting for TEW, and I had recently said I was planning to before I changed my mind. So it could still be a wolf on wolf.

I don't know, out of the 4 votes for him, this one is the fishiest.

I didn't vote Fea for the same reason I didn't vote Agan, Boro, or Wilwa - even though they all had "wolf" checks, they also had "innocent" checks. In short, they were being noticeable.

Now, something I noticed - if TEWie thought he'd be lynched, he could well have voted his packmate to try and make whichever one survived look better. I'm not saying this makes Fea a wolf; it's a random thought that popped into my head. Or he could have been trying to deflect attention away from a packmate who was on the chopping block; but again, this could well be a random, nonsensical thought.

As for Boro, he's not acting like the Boro-wolf I've played with, and I'm inclined to trust him.

Agan posts too many words, but she seems innocent, too.

EDIT: xed with Greenie

[skip spence]

OK, just an open query:

I'm rather new at this game and frankly, I don't see why the lynch of Wolf-warrior is so inherently fishy. Even in the hypothetical scenario that he were innocent. Because on Day 1 any judgement (barring inside knowledge the wolves and the Seer have) is bound to be highly subjective. You look at the behaviour of people and try to guess if they are acting in the interest of the village or not. Not posting much may also be a reason for suspicion as good as any other, and Boro is right in that one can also vote because you trust someone else more without necessarily suspecting the person you vote for in any particular way.

Yes, we were lucky to catch a wolf (even if there was a Seer involved) but for me it's kind of hard to see that happening any other way. Most people here (I believe) are experienced players who wouldn't make an obvious slip, so catching a wolf at that point would require a bit of luck regardless.

I'm certainly not discounting a wolf or two among the TEW-voters, or that the whole lynching is an elaborate scam, but I don't see why this lynch should be such a stand-out in that respect.

[A Little Green]

Lottie's latest makes me feel better about her, so

++ Wilwa

And now I'm really off to bed. Sweet dreams my lovelies!

[skip spence]

To me it looked like a random yet honest vote.

Originally Posted by Agan

How can it look honest (or dishonest) when there's so little to base it on?

I dunno what to say. To me it looked like an honest guess. On Day 1 there always little to base anything on (for innocent villagers). But I'm not trusting Eomer in any way.

Originally Posted by me

If she really wanted Fea to live a vote on Elf and not Pitch would make more sense to me.

Originally Posted by Agan

But did she? If you don't have a really strong feeling about someone's role, you don't usually care that much about whether they die or not, so accusing wilwa of not saving Fea by voting the proper person seems far-fetched to me. And actually I think wilwa's reason for choosing Pitch over EW was quite decent. Yes she might be a wolf, but she could also have done it as an innocent.

I seem to remember her saying that the girls looked okay and that she could vote for either Pitch or Elf. That implies that she'd rather see Fea alive than either of these two. I could be wrong though.

[Aganzir]

Friends are doing stuff I'm not needed for, so I'm going to make a quick summary. I haven't reread the thread, so it's mostly just the general opinions & impressions I have on people.

GUILTY
sally. Reacted unnecessarily jumpily to my vote (come on, it was day 1 and I wasn't super suspicious of anybody, it's nothing personal), and some things she says about people in #58 rubbed me the wrong way. Or maybe it's not the things she says but the way she says them that feels off to me. She also jumped on wilwa's suggestion we don't lynch EW in his absence which was her biggest game-related contribution after voting.
skip. Not necessarily a wolf (I'm still kind of doubtful whether he would've cast the first vote for a fellow) but he feels somehow awfully off. I'm toying with the idea he's the cobbler.
Eomer. Weird. I don't seem to get his reasoning at all, and his Greenie vote looks opportunistic.

INNOCENT
Fea. She voted for EW, and EW voted for her. While it's totally possible it's a wolfish scheme (you can't really rule out anything when we're talking of Fea), I think survival is in the wolves' best interests. However, I'm not actually trusting her, either.
wilwa. If she had really wanted to save EW, why didn't she vote for Fea who had more votes? Generally she makes sense and has good points, and although I'm by no means convinced of her innocence, I'm willing to trust her for now. Besides I'm somewhat concerned about how she seems to be today's easy lynching candidate.
Greenie. Seems innocentish enough and I'm not too worried about her at the moment, although I'm fully aware of how capable she's fooling me. I will probably want to have a look at her at some point though.

EITHER
Nerwen. I don't really like her vote for wilwa (she seems like such an easy target after defending EW yesterday), but apart from that she hasn't given me a reason to be suspicious.
Lottie. Voted for EW which makes her look more innocent, but why didn't she choose Fea or someone else she had expressed suspicion of? Hmm actually now that I think of it, her giving Fea four cobbler checks and saying very soon afterwards that she wasn't going to vote for her might be interpreted as a hint from a wolf to the cobbler... Not sure about that though because I still think giving hints to the cobbler wouldn't be worth the risk.
Boro. He generally seems to make sense, and he voted for a wolf, but there was something forced-looking in his decision.
Pitch. Apart from a slightly bad feeling yesterDay, he's been escaping my attention so far. Will have to remedy that when I can.

I'm probably going to vote for someone either on the Guilty or Either list.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nerwen: I felt like I was agreeing with everything Nerwen said, until her last post. Had she not made this post I would therefore have assumed her guilty. She makes good posts though, so whatever side she's on I want her in the village for now.

Pitch: can't get a read on him. Seems to make reasonable posts but that says nothing for his innocence or guilt. Haven't noticed him too much, really.

Wilwa: see Pitch. However, I always think the same of Wilwa so she obviously has some sort of power which prevents me from analysing her properly.

Sally: I know she always appears like a cobbler, but... I just get a feeling from her.

Lottie: need to re-read her posts, sorry. No opinion on her yet.

Greenie: don't know if it's because of my vote yesterday and I'm a stubborn fool, but she looks a bit suspicious to me. A bit too smooth, really.

skip: see Loslote. Sorry, no opinion yet.

Boro: same old Boro. No read on him but I would definitely keep him around for now because he often makes points which no-one else thinks of.

Fea: same old Fea. No read on her either. Leaning towards innocent (though if anyone could pull off lynching a packmate on the first day...)

Agan: I always, always, always suspect Aganzir. I am completely irrational so you shouldn't bother reading this post.

Eomer: pretty irrational and a no good drunkard. Lynch.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The sharp observers among you will realise all my suspicions come from hunches. I honestly think that's very unusual for me.

[Pitchwife]

Some thoughts about the rest of the votes:

Eomer -> Greenie
I've commented on this yesterDay: early vote based entirely on her first post, which was too 'obviously nice and let's get down to business'y'. Not too bad for early on Day 1.

Greenie -> Fea
for posting off-topic, too many jokes, smug tone & joking wolf-confession. Can't find fault with that, thought similar at the time.

me -> Fea(2)
I'd like to note that I'd repeatedly stated being worried by Fea 's and Agan's wolf-joking thing and in Fea's case also her not posting anything seriously game-related, so it's not like this came totally out of the blue.
It was the best I'd got at the time, and I wasn't going to drop it just because Greenie went there ahead of me (so much for 'blatant bandwagoning').

Agan -> sally
reason: ' I know I'm going to get frustrated later on if you top the post count with half your posts being jokes'.
Interesting, since in the same post she said her suspects were skip, Greenie, Eomer and me.

sally -> Pitch
for bandwagoning against Fea. See explanation above, but I must admit it was a fair reason.

wilwa -> Pitch (2)
apparently for no other reason than not wanting to spread the votes further and not wanting to lynch anybody else. If that was an attempt to save either TEW or Fea, did she think it would succeed? Shasta might very well have voted me, if he had voted at all, but both Lottie and Boro had already stated they weren't going to; would have depended on Nerwen.

Conclusion: Inconsistency between suspicions and vote in Agan's case, and wilwa could be either/or; rest looks decent for Day 1.

[skip spence]

Getting a bit tired and should probably vote soon.

Might go for Pitch for his opportunistic Fea-vote and because of a sneaking suspicion and in order to open up another alternative.

Might also go for Sally because of her odd behaviour yesterDay.

Or Wilwa for reasons already stated.

Agan is clearly evil but I'm not convinced she's assigned to that part in this game.

I'm pretty good about Boro, Lottie and Fea.

Nerwen, Greenie and Eomer I've no read on.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I've just read through all Loslote's posts and the one thing that struck me is how inoffensive she is. Even when she gets closest to pinpointing someone:

"Wilwa's looking more evil than anyone else at this point, but she's still not looking excessively so."

she's careful to soften it.

Maybe it's just your character but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with you if you were wielding a sword like a crazy person and hurling abuse at people.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Maybe it's just your character but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with you if you were wielding a sword like a crazy person and hurling abuse at people.

You know what, that is a bit odd. I've only played one game here on the downs but in that game Lottie was just that person, throwing all kinds of wild accusations all round. And in that game she was innocent and also correct on most accounts in her assessments.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by skip spence

You know what, that is a bit odd. I've only played one game here on the downs but in that game Lottie was just that person, throwing all kinds of wild accusations all round. And in that game she was innocent and also correct on most accounts in her assessments.

That is very intriguing, skip.

Although, in the interest of balance, I would say that I remember Loslote as being fairly quiet from a previous game. A bit Jekyll and Hyde, is she?

Some of us are considerate enough to be consistently and predictably irritating.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I've just read through all Loslote's posts and the one thing that struck me is how inoffensive she is. Even when she gets closest to pinpointing someone:

"Wilwa's looking more evil than anyone else at this point, but she's still not looking excessively so."

she's careful to soften it.

Maybe it's just your character but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with you if you were wielding a sword like a crazy person and hurling abuse at people.

Originally Posted by skip spence

You know what, that is a bit odd. I've only played one game here on the downs but in that game Lottie was just that person, throwing all kinds of wild accusations all round. And in that game she was innocent and also correct on most accounts in her assessments.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

That is very intriguing, skip.

Although, in the interest of balance, I would say that I remember Loslote as being fairly quiet from a previous game. A bit Jekyll and Hyde, is she?

Some of us are considerate enough to be consistently and predictably irritating.

This interaction caught my eye (of course, as I was the main topic!). In my mind, Skip came out looking a lot more innocent, and Eomer a lot less so. The only game he could have been talking about was Nerwen's. Now, the logical way to proceed with this line of reasoning is, "was she a wolf in that game"? As it happens, no. I was Gifted. If I die toNight, may I ask that Eomer not be overlooked?

Also, other than this, I've gotten practially no read on Eomer, while Skip has looked pretty innocent, so my interpertation of this conversation may be biased.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Loslote, for the benefit of those of us who don't reside inside your head, can you explain what you mean in that post? I really can't figure it out.

I'd like to highlight to you that Skip insinuated you had changed your playing style, whereas I balanced his subtle accusation by claiming you hadn't.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Wilwa votes for Loslote

Nerwen votes for Wilwa

Boromir votes for Sally

Green votes for Wilwa



That's all?

[skip spence]

Okay, here goes.

++Wilwa

I feel kind of apprehensive about jumping on this particular bandwagon, but still, it's probably best to trust my original impression.

Good night and may a lucky star shine on us!

ps. you know who I mean by us!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Lottie

This interaction caught my eye (of course, as I was the main topic!).

Mine as well. There's something going on here.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I'd like to highlight to you that Skip insinuated you had changed your playing style, whereas I balanced his subtle accusation by claiming you hadn't.

You mean your post about how she was so very inoffensive and careful to soften her suspicions wasn't a subtle accusation?

(Aside to Lottie: How does it feel to be Miss Agreeable for a change?)

EDIT: x-ed with skip

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Lottie's latest makes me feel better about her, so

++ Wilwa

And now I'm really off to bed. Sweet dreams my lovelies!

This feels dodgy. Also, in your previous post you had narrowed it down to Wilwa and Loslote. They both already had a vote apiece at this stage. On the face of it, this looks quite manipulative.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

You mean your post about how she was so very inoffensive and careful to soften her suspicions wasn't a subtle accusation?skip

Well Pitch, if my original post on Loslote was 'a subtle accusation' then Skip's was a stronger one, and I then balanced it.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, I'm keeping my vote the way it is. Not convinced a choice between Wilwa and Loslote is the way to go. Sally always looks wrong to me but I haven't assessed her properly so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for now.

++A LITTLE GREEN

For reasons above.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Wilwa votes for Loslote

Nerwen votes for Wilwa

Boromir votes for Sally

Green votes for Wilwa

Skip votes for Wilwa

Eomer votes for Green

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Oh man, is it 5 posts in a row? And have I got the deadline completely wrong?

I'm awa' to bed.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Aganzir, how can you make such a long post on Day Two? It's quite frankly ridiculous.

Aren't you interested in what I have to say? Hmm I believe Cailín played in the game in which I made a 2300-word case against Mac, but that wasn't Day 2! (Oh yes she did because I remember assassinating her.)

I already explained why I think the EW voting was suspicious

I still quite don't understand if you thought so only yesterday or also today (I got the impression it was the latter). I mean, it feels odd if you find a bandwagon suspicious that killed a wolf, even if it was mostly good luck... Do you really expect the wolves had planned it (or it was the seer's work)?

If the two wolves are among the four voters, one at least is gonna get a free ride right to the end of the game.

I know we shouldn't ignore anybody just because they happened to kill a wolf, but it looks mighty cobblerish to me to try to direct our attention to the people who voted for EW.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

In response to Agan. I don't approach Day 1s with the same contempt that others do --- in the experimental larger games, I typically say something controversial, to get attention and people talking about me and from there I can sort out who looks evil and rotten and who doesn't.

Hmm what was that a response to? I mean, I don't think I had any more questions about your day 1 activities. You're beginning to look rather jumpy with your lengthy explanations of your behaviour.
For the record, I don't think there are many people here who actually hate day 1s so much. See, even Fea, who seems to post mostly nonsense, sets traps in her posts and draws conclusions based on how people react to them. And what stops you from being controversial in traditional games? I don't think it's all that difficult.
I just realised something (which I'm not going to speak about right now - hope that makes me seem more like normal me, ie. annoying, Greenie ) and am actually beginning to get somewhat bad vibes from Boro.

Originally Posted by Boro

Had I been concerned about saving, TEW or not, I wouldn't have even made that post.

We others have no way of knowing whether you'd actually have done it. We have no way of knowing if the wolves had an ingenious plan to lynch EW (or somebody else, it could've been any one of them) to make the others look better. Unlikely as it is, we can't really ignore it. Besides, I've seen a Borowolf before who behaved exactly the way I didn't expect him to, and I got to pay for it.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

my logic would warn me against an Agan who doesn't annoy me at all.

If you'd like, I can try my best to fix that.

Greenie's summary looks relatively genuine.

Originally Posted by skip spence

To me it looked like an honest guess. On Day 1 there always little to base anything on (for innocent villagers). But I'm not trusting Eomer in any way.

What do you mean by an honest guess, and how can you tell it from a dishonest guess or a simple "I need to get someone lynched so I'll just throw there a few reasons and that should be enough" kind of vote? And when saying you don't trust Eomer in any way, do you mean you're not convinced he's innocent, or you find him completely unworthy of your trust?

That implies that she'd rather see Fea alive than either of these two.

I think that only implies she didn't want to vote for Fea. If she had said she thought Fea was innocent, I would have expected her to try to save her, but she didn't say so. If I don't have any strong suspects, I'm usually happy whichever way the lynch turns out - after all, others might have noticed things I never paid attention to.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I felt like I was agreeing with everything Nerwen said, until her last post. Had she not made this post I would therefore have assumed her guilty.

Huh? She appeared guilty to you because you agreed with her? I wonder what that makes you. ;-)

Sally: I know she always appears like a cobbler, but... I just get a feeling from her.

I know exactly what you mean.

Agan: I always, always, always suspect Aganzir. I am completely irrational so you shouldn't bother reading this post.

Aww, why? :-p

Originally Posted by skip spence

Agan is clearly evil but I'm not convinced she's assigned to that part in this game.

Trying to flatter me eh?

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Maybe it's just your character but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with you if you were wielding a sword like a crazy person and hurling abuse at people.

I definitely agree with you. The Lottie I'm used to (based on only one game with her, though) was really, how shall I phrase it, strong with her suspicions. ;-)

Okay I had to leave for a while and you guys posted some more...

Originally Posted by Eomer

can you explain what you mean in that post? I really can't figure it out.

I believe she thinks you accuse her because her behaviour is similar to a gifted!Lottie's... But to be honest I'm not entirely sure about the meaning of that post either.

Originally Posted by skip

ps. you know who I mean by us!

Huh?? Okay skip just rose much higher on my cobbler list.

Alright they need me again, will read & comment on the rest of the posts later.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, one more post.

Aganzir, I haven't played WW much recently, but in one of the last games I played I basically trusted Wolf-Nerwen right until the end.

I trusted her because she said everything I was thinking before I had the chance to post it. If she ever does that again I will be forced to try to lynch her.

Does that make sense now?

Right, really away now. I have to get up early tomorrow as I have a visitor from the Barrow-Downs this weekend: fellow Warg-appreciator SamwiseGamgee! Maybe he can help unwrap the mystery of the two remaining wolves...

Or, far more likely, we'll get lost in the pub and I'll be mod-fired.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Loslote, for the benefit of those of us who don't reside inside your head, can you explain what you mean in that post? I really can't figure it out.

I'd like to highlight to you that Skip insinuated you had changed your playing style, whereas I balanced his subtle accusation by claiming you hadn't.

I was pointing out that you'd just liked my behavior now to my behavior as a Gifted, and that if I died, I'd be highly suspicious of you...although, now that I've said that, we have to take even that with a heaping spoonful of salt.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

(Aside to Lottie: How does it feel to be Miss Agreeable for a change?)

Bit boring, actually. If I had real suspicious (other than a really, really weak case against Eomer and an unsupported gut feeling about Greenie), I'd start waving my torch and pitchfork.

That wasn't meant to be a hint to Pitchie, but I don't want to bother rephrasing.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I believe she thinks you accuse her because her behaviour is similar to a gifted!Lottie's... But to be honest I'm not entirely sure about the meaning of that post either.

No, I believe it's somewhat suspicious to link someone's behavior to that of a Gifted's, because only wolves are actively looking for Gifteds. It's not really an accusation; just throwing that point out there.

EDIT: xed with Eomer

[satansaloser2005]

My shoddy interwebs and I are back. What's the vote count?

*is a bum*

[Pitchwife]

Looking mostly OK

Agan - I still don't get the reason for her vote yesterDay and disagree with her aboutsally and Boro, plus she seems to be looking for cobblers all over the place rather than wolves, but she doesn't give me the impression of having a hidden agenda.
Boro - sounds reasonable and genuine, and bonus points for giving TEW the coup de grace; most of his posts toDay were explaining/defending his vote, I'd like to see some more from him.
Fea - better toDay, now she's started applying her extraorbitant awesomeness to the game, and bonus points for giving TEW his second vote; would still like to see more, but I'm not going to vote her again for the time being.
Greenie - not that much to go on, but looks decent altogether.
Nerwen - always a big unknown, but most of what she's said toDay looks good.
sally - looks more or less like her normal silly self, only a bit more mysterious; may be 'up to something' (to use her own words), but doesn't give me any downright evil vibes yet.


Could go either way

Lottie - I see how her vote yesterDay could cause some doubts, but I don't think she'd have pushed The Elf-Wolf to the lead as a packmate; could theoretically have been the move of a clueless cobbler, but that would depend on either Fea or me being a wolf.


Somewhat suspicious

skip - looked OK to me earlier in the Day, but his interaction with Eomer - both about Lottie and earlier about the 'fishiness' of the TEWagon - rings some subtle bells; I'm still leaning toward innocent newbie seeking advice, but wouldn't rule out wolf-cub looking for guidance from senior packmate.
wilwa - I'm torn about her: her vote could have been an attempt to look like she was trying to save Fea without doing anything decisive, or an attempt to save TEW, and I think her case against Lottie stands on thin legs, but all this depends on too many unknowns; so I'll be watching her, but not voting her toDay.


Somewhat more suspicious

Eomer - I'm a bit uneasy about the way he's been harping on the theme of wolves among the TEW voters (not that it's impossible, but it'd take some very daring and confident wolves to pull off such a manœuver that early in the game); almost makes me think of a wolf trying to avenge his fallen packmate. His list basically amounts to 'no clear opinion of anybody'. And see above under skip.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Where did Shasta say anything about Lottie being the cobbler?

You know, I have no idea. I just searched every single one of Shasta's posts and didn't find anything, and then I reread my post summarizing all the interactions he had with people and the things people said about him, and I have NO clue where I got that. I think I must have been in the middle of writing something and started reading or thinking about something different, and the thoughts combined.

Perhaps it's because others have mentioned Lottie as a possible cobbler suspect? Honestly, I'm quite ashamed at that oversight. I mean, I summarized all of Shasticle's posts myself, like three sentences before my brain spontaneously decided to attribute that statement to Shasta.

Sorry about that.

Well, there goes that entire argument about Shasta's death more or less exonerating Lottiepop...

I've been thinking all day about how Shasta "said" Lottie might be the cobbler. Brain-fail.

Now I'll need to re-think, but I haven't been home very long, so rethinking will have to come pretty quickly to meet deadline...