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Old 04-12-2007, 02:37 PM   #41
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LjósÁlfr
I can't help but awensering you're question; alt + d becomes a đ and alt + t becomes a ţ, alt + z becomes a ć alt + l becomes ř etc..
(can't help but try it)
Đ ... nothing ... nothing ... Ł ... doesn't work!
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:09 PM   #42
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On some computers, alt + '----' - that is, four numbers, results in a great variety of fascinating alternatives. For example:

alt + 0237 = í
alt + 0251 = ű

and so forth.

Back to the topic of Anglo-Saxon deities, which was the original question (what deity would be equivalent in Anglo-Saxon to Mars?). The Church seems to have wiped out much of our knowledge in that regard. However, I recall in my reading of Ivanhoe by Sir Walter Scott, that there were references to Anglo-Saxon deities that I had never heard of before nor since. In chapter 30, the Saxon Ulrica commits suicide by burning herself in a tower; while the flames consume it, she is singing a Scald, a dire song that includes this:

Light the torch, Zernebock is yelling!

I don't know who this is, but he apparenlty has to do with fire.
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Old 04-14-2007, 08:32 AM   #43
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A quick wikipedia research gave me a list of Anglo-Saxon God's, but because HTML is off I can't post the handy table that is given on that site, showing the Anglo - Saxon, then the Old German and then the Norse equevelant.

But http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_deities is the link to the Wikipedia article. This learn's us that, Týr being, in later Norse Mythology playing a Mars-like Role, is the equivalent of Tíw. (Or Zîu in Old German).

Since I havn't learned of one Germanic language where the Genitive case isn't an S for male singular, Tíws would be the equivalent of Martis.

(If Anglo-Saxon is different with the s from Dutch, German, Old Norse (and the 6 language's derived from Old Norse) and Modern English, please do tell)
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Old 04-14-2007, 02:13 PM   #44
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The thing about English is that it has become so bastardized with borrowings in turn from Viking Danish, Norman French, then Parisian French, then Latin and Greek, that it has ceased to be an inflected language, often rendering cases such as genitive and dative at least partially obsolete.

There are three types of language:

aglutinative, inflectional, and analytical.

Aglutinative is a language in which case is derived by means of changes within the word (I can't give you any examples).

Inflectional derives cases by means of suffixes and prefixes (Latin, old Germanic).

Analytical derives cases by means of helping words, which is how English mostly functions these days.

All that by way of saying that you won't find "s" endings on English names to denote male singular.

(I hope I didn't just confuse everybody.)
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Old 04-14-2007, 02:28 PM   #45
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Tolkien

You didn't with me I think.... But even in modern English... If you want to say Fred the book is owned by Fred, you get: "Freds Book". The s is what remains of a Genitive case, the same s still exists in (Both Old and Modern) Dutch, and in German. It's exists in the Nordic languages (including Old Norse).....

If you're still not convinced, I've got a book about Anglo-Saxon, I'll look it up in there tomorrow

Oh, and since I'm Dutch, and speak quit some German, I'll give a example of both these language's as well.

Now in German the name-cases still exist properly. The Germans generally use an article, only with the Genitive they've got the s in the end as well. The article is Des, and you get an S in the end of the word as well. For example, 'from the father' would be 'des vaters'

Dutch cases are basicly the same as German ones, 1 or 2 Article's are different though, but in Dutch, (for those who speak Dutch) think of the saying 'De heer des huizes', or 's morgens... ('s is shortend for des).

With some quick looking up I'd be able to give you examples of Old Norse and the modern Nordic Languages as well, but I cba
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Old 04-14-2007, 02:51 PM   #46
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Ah, you speak of the "English possessive", one of the few hold-outs from its inflective ancestry. But it has nothing to do anymore with gender. Sam's rope, Galadriel's mirror, the balrog's wings. So masculine, feminine, (perhaps) neuter; it's all the same.

But yes, having taken German in college, I'm aware of the fact of gender as still prevalent in that language.
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Old 04-15-2007, 05:24 AM   #47
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Uhm.... the Genitive case IS possesive, in German you probaly called it the second (name) case.... In Latin we call it the Genitive (Genitivus). Since all Indo-Proto-European language's once had 8 name cases (Nominativus, Vocativus, Genitivus, Dativus, Accusativus, Ablativus, Locativus and Instrumentalis), we have one universal term for it, and that's the Latin one (Or word's taken from the Latin name Nominativus = Nominative in English)....

Oh and I looked it up in my book about Anglo-Saxon, it's -es So my Anglo-Saxon (Blah.. it's not Rohirric, it's Anglo-Saxon, or Old English) would be Tíwes

The Nouns in Anglo-Saxon, male the a-stem :

Singular
Nom. - Hund
Gen. - Hundes
Dat. - Hunde
Acc. - Hund

plural
Nom. - Hundas
Gen. - Hunda
Dat. - Hundum
Acc. - Hundas
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Old 04-15-2007, 12:56 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LjósÁlfr
Uhm.... the Genitive case IS possessive, in German you probaly called it the second (name) case....
Quite. Which just goes to prove my point: English speakers don't even think about language in terms of cases, precisely because the language is no longer inflective.

Tíwes.

I like that.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:30 AM   #49
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I love cases, I find them quit effective when learning a language . People always complain about them having to learn the conjunction (Is this the proper English word?) of the name-cases, but I find it easier then learning the word sequence with all it's irregularity.
Luckely I've got some friends who think the same about it.... I often use Dutch name-cases when speaking against them .

I like reintrocuding some very old fashioned english as well for, (Thou, Thee, Whence old conjunctions of for instance verbs and stuff like that).

'Whence didst thou came, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thee walkest in a wrong direction!!'

(This didn't mean anything, it wasn't a quote either, I just had to say something old fashioned )

Last edited by LjósÁlfr; 04-17-2007 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:34 PM   #50
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Ah but there's a proper grammar to that kind of English. Anybody brought up on the King James Bible knows it.

'Whence didst thou came, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thee walkest in a wrong direction!!'

should be:

'Whence didst thou come, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thou walkest in a wrong direction!!' (Shakespeare would use "contrary" instead of "wrong")

But that's all quibble.

Then again, linguistics and philology are all about quibbles!
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:25 AM   #51
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I'm gonna have to say you're right, I've always been messing arround with my Times in English, and using that Thee instead of Thou was just a bad mistake of me...*sigh*.... That one was just stupid...

I'm often using wrong times because in Dutch, which is my best language, "I cycled" and "I have cycled" mean exactly the same, in English it's different, now af course using came instead of come is quit different from that.... ah well....


I thanke thee for thy most friendly improving of my wrong English. Where hast thou learned such a beautifull English?
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Old 04-18-2007, 09:57 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LjósÁlfr
I thanke thee for thy most friendly improving of my wrong English. Where hast thou learned such a beautifull English?
Thou art most welcome. As to where, none other than the KJV and Shakespeare. They were contemporaries, of course. Ah but thou knowest, am I right, sirrah?
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