Whats your favorite theme? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thingol · 01-12-2002, 05:47 PM

What’s your favorite theme in Tolkien's books? I like the theme of change. Even if you defeat evil, the world is changed by your victory and attempts to slow down time are ultimately fruitless. I also like the battle between good and evil stuff. Evil can never be wholly destroyed, even if good is so much more powerful.

Eowyn of Ithilien · 01-12-2002, 09:18 PM

Victory has a cost...I wrote a poem bout that but won'ttttt bore you all with it [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Also that there is always hope.

Lostgaeriel · 01-14-2002, 05:57 AM

I like the idea that each person, no matter how small or seemingly unimportant, can change the world. That each of us must do the best that we can - our actions could make all the difference in the battle between good and evil in the world.

Telchar · 01-14-2002, 07:38 AM

Great points everyone [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Still I think one of the most important themes in LoTR is mortallity vs. imortallity.

Estelyn Telcontar · 01-14-2002, 03:40 PM

I think walking is one of the big themes - from Bilbo's walking song, Frodo's walks through the Shire, the Nine Walkers (as opposed to the Nine Riders), to the fact that the king not only answers to the name of Strider, but makes the elvish translation of it - Telcontar - the name of his house.

amyrlis · 01-14-2002, 04:45 PM

The themes of courage and love are what always get me. The four hobbits, these small, quiet, good-natured creatures, who barely make it through the Old Forest alive, ultimately face unspeakable challenges and enemies. Sam battling Shelob and overcoming his fear to continue the quest on his own, he does it out of courage and his love for Frodo. Frodo leaving the Fellowship to face Mordor on his own because he loves his friends too much to have them face the evil with him. Merry desperately stabbing the Witchking after seeing that it has smote Theoden, someone he cares for. One has to wonder, “If I were 3’6” and came face to face with a monstrous spider or a dreadful black sorcerer, where would I get that kind of courage?” I think it comes down to love. The hobbits’ enduring friendship with each other and their respect and devotion for those they encounter on their journey are what ultimately get them through it all.

Estelyn Telcontar · 01-15-2002, 02:41 AM

Amyrlis - I like what you said about the connection between courage and love. Amen!

The Mirrorball Man · 01-15-2002, 05:03 AM

All things must pass, fade away and disappear. For me it's the main theme in Tolkien's work. It's certainly my favorite approach of his books.

Yaish · 01-15-2002, 06:05 AM

I like Tolkiens theme of everything working out in the end. Eru states that even when others do evil, it is really doing his will.

I disagree with the idea of a supreme will guiding us, but think that in the conflict of good and evil, it is really good that is being served. The conflict promotes changes for the better, whereas lack of conflict leads to stagnation.

Want to know my least favorite theme? His constant use of his greatest heros as the most flawed charactors. Feanor, Turin, Turgon, Thingol, etc...

Sindalómiel · 01-15-2002, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lostgaeriel:
<STRONG>I like the idea that each person, no matter how small or seemingly unimportant, can change the world. That each of us must do the best that we can - our actions could make all the difference in the battle between good and evil in the world.</STRONG>

This is my favourite as well, I think. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 01-16-2002, 01:07 AM

Ditto. My favorite is something similar: that sometimes the course of events hangs on a fulcrum, that small things can bring about great change. And that this unpredictability, the whimsy of fate or luck, shapes the world more often than the great or the powerful. I think it's true.

Elrian · 01-16-2002, 02:31 AM

The meek shall inhereit the earth theme (free people against Sauron) is the best one.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 01-16-2002, 05:12 AM

How can one have a favourite among so many great themes?
How about: Virtue is its own reward and vice its own punishment? That comes through quite strongly, although in the end we do see justice done anyway.

01-16-2002, 09:44 AM

What really impressed when I reread FOTR recently was the theme of mercy, of pity: Bilbo's pity to Gollum, forshadowing Frodo's, and even Sam's. Bilbo's possession of the ring began with an act, and sets the stage for everything that follws. "The pity of Bilbo will rule the fate of many." Gandalf's wise words really struck a chord with me this time. Perhaps I'm older and wiser now, but it's made me begin to rethink some long-held assumptions.

People who don't think fantasy (and LOTR) is relevant to Real Life don't know what they're missing...

EG

Carannillion · 01-16-2002, 09:51 AM

The thing about how nobody's perfect. As mentioned above, the greatest heroes are the oneswith the most faults. At the same time, the small (not just in size, but also reputation and expected effort) and supposedly weak ones turnout to make a difference.

This is more a thing of LotR. I'm even more fondof one of the themes of SIL: The joy of creating something, and watching it grow; just like Tolkien's main purpouse was, with inventing the language first, and then using ME as a tool in its evolution.

dernhelm · 01-16-2002, 02:06 PM

My favorite theme is that God is sovereign. Tolkien makes it clear in LotR and the Silmarillion that even when evil things happen, God is ultimately in control. Also, the books show that God has a plan of salvation that will be accomplished even when we can not understand how, and that even evil things can be used to do God's will.

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 01-16-2002, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elanor G:
<STRONG>What really impressed when I reread FOTR recently was the theme of mercy, of pity: Bilbo's pity to Gollum, forshadowing Frodo's, and even Sam's. Bilbo's possession of the ring began with an act, and sets the stage for everything that follws. "The pity of Bilbo will rule the fate of many." Gandalf's wise words really struck a chord with me this time. Perhaps I'm older and wiser now, but it's made me begin to rethink some long-held assumptions.

People who don't think fantasy (and LOTR) is relevant to Real Life don't know what they're missing...

EG</STRONG>

Yes, agreed. I think I like that theme even better than the one I mentioned.

Estelyn Telcontar · 01-16-2002, 04:54 PM

There's another way mercy is shown - in giving those who are weak a job they can handle. Fatty Bolger is one example - he's not ready to go on the adventure, but there's something within his means that he can do. And he acts as a hero, in his way.
The other example is Aragorn's pity on those of his troops who are terrified going to battle Mordor - he gives them an honourable task so they don't retreat in shame.
I know everybody in the book stretches their limits, but no one is scolded for their inability to tackle a huge task. I find that comforting - it's hard to accept my own limitations!

Fenrir · 01-17-2002, 11:56 AM

"Nothing is evil in the beginning, even Sauron was not so"
Probably my favourite theme, hard to choose though.

Lush · 01-19-2002, 04:24 PM

I hate to bore everyone to death by dragging my ethnicity into this, but as a Russian, my favorite theme in LotR is of keeping faith, staying true, and fulfulling our duty to those whom we love. I was born into a society that continues to teeter dangerously on the edge of destruction, but I may never forget my obligations to Russia, no matter how hopeless it may all turn out to be. If I live a long life, I want to die with the sense that I did everything I could.
And the LotR inspires me to believe that we may yet breathe life into something that has died, but only if we do not succumb to despair.
...Wow, that was sanctimonious! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

01-12-2002, 05:47 PM	#1
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	Whats your favorite theme? What’s your favorite theme in Tolkien's books? I like the theme of change. Even if you defeat evil, the world is changed by your victory and attempts to slow down time are ultimately fruitless. I also like the battle between good and evil stuff. Evil can never be wholly destroyed, even if good is so much more powerful. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

01-12-2002, 09:18 PM	#2
Eowyn of Ithilien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 277	Victory has a cost...I wrote a poem bout that but won'ttttt bore you all with it [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Also that there is always hope. __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

01-14-2002, 05:57 AM	#3
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 477	I like the idea that each person, no matter how small or seemingly unimportant, can change the world. That each of us must do the best that we can - our actions could make all the difference in the battle between good and evil in the world. __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

01-14-2002, 07:38 AM	#4
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Great points everyone [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Still I think one of the most important themes in LoTR is mortallity vs. imortallity. __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

01-14-2002, 03:40 PM	#5
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,535	I think walking is one of the big themes - from Bilbo's walking song, Frodo's walks through the Shire, the Nine Walkers (as opposed to the Nine Riders), to the fact that the king not only answers to the name of Strider, but makes the elvish translation of it - Telcontar - the name of his house. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

01-14-2002, 04:45 PM	#6
amyrlis Wight Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Helcaraxe Posts: 210	The themes of courage and love are what always get me. The four hobbits, these small, quiet, good-natured creatures, who barely make it through the Old Forest alive, ultimately face unspeakable challenges and enemies. Sam battling Shelob and overcoming his fear to continue the quest on his own, he does it out of courage and his love for Frodo. Frodo leaving the Fellowship to face Mordor on his own because he loves his friends too much to have them face the evil with him. Merry desperately stabbing the Witchking after seeing that it has smote Theoden, someone he cares for. One has to wonder, “If I were 3’6” and came face to face with a monstrous spider or a dreadful black sorcerer, where would I get that kind of courage?” I think it comes down to love. The hobbits’ enduring friendship with each other and their respect and devotion for those they encounter on their journey are what ultimately get them through it all. __________________ "Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."

01-15-2002, 02:41 AM	#7
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,535	Amyrlis - I like what you said about the connection between courage and love. Amen! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

01-15-2002, 05:03 AM	#8
The Mirrorball Man Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 57	All things must pass, fade away and disappear. For me it's the main theme in Tolkien's work. It's certainly my favorite approach of his books. __________________ "It was only a glimpse then, but you might have caught the glimpse, if you had ever thought it worthwhile to try."

01-15-2002, 06:05 AM	#9
Yaish Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NC Posts: 20	I like Tolkiens theme of everything working out in the end. Eru states that even when others do evil, it is really doing his will. I disagree with the idea of a supreme will guiding us, but think that in the conflict of good and evil, it is really good that is being served. The conflict promotes changes for the better, whereas lack of conflict leads to stagnation. Want to know my least favorite theme? His constant use of his greatest heros as the most flawed charactors. Feanor, Turin, Turgon, Thingol, etc...

01-16-2002, 01:07 AM	#11
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Ditto. My favorite is something similar: that sometimes the course of events hangs on a fulcrum, that small things can bring about great change. And that this unpredictability, the whimsy of fate or luck, shapes the world more often than the great or the powerful. I think it's true. __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

01-16-2002, 02:31 AM	#12
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	The meek shall inhereit the earth theme (free people against Sauron) is the best one. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-16-2002, 05:12 AM	#13
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,184	How can one have a favourite among so many great themes? How about: Virtue is its own reward and vice its own punishment? That comes through quite strongly, although in the end we do see justice done anyway. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

01-16-2002, 09:44 AM	#14
ElanorG Guest Posts: n/a	What really impressed when I reread FOTR recently was the theme of mercy, of pity: Bilbo's pity to Gollum, forshadowing Frodo's, and even Sam's. Bilbo's possession of the ring began with an act, and sets the stage for everything that follws. "The pity of Bilbo will rule the fate of many." Gandalf's wise words really struck a chord with me this time. Perhaps I'm older and wiser now, but it's made me begin to rethink some long-held assumptions. People who don't think fantasy (and LOTR) is relevant to Real Life don't know what they're missing... EG

01-16-2002, 09:51 AM	#15
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	The thing about how nobody's perfect. As mentioned above, the greatest heroes are the oneswith the most faults. At the same time, the small (not just in size, but also reputation and expected effort) and supposedly weak ones turnout to make a difference. This is more a thing of LotR. I'm even more fondof one of the themes of SIL: The joy of creating something, and watching it grow; just like Tolkien's main purpouse was, with inventing the language first, and then using ME as a tool in its evolution. __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...

01-16-2002, 02:06 PM	#16
dernhelm Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 30	My favorite theme is that God is sovereign. Tolkien makes it clear in LotR and the Silmarillion that even when evil things happen, God is ultimately in control. Also, the books show that God has a plan of salvation that will be accomplished even when we can not understand how, and that even evil things can be used to do God's will. __________________ Now Lords and Ladies blithe and bold, To bless you here now am I bound: I thank you all a thousand-fold, And pray God save you whole and sound. ~ Sir Gawain's Leave-Taking ~

01-16-2002, 04:54 PM	#18
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,535	There's another way mercy is shown - in giving those who are weak a job they can handle. Fatty Bolger is one example - he's not ready to go on the adventure, but there's something within his means that he can do. And he acts as a hero, in his way. The other example is Aragorn's pity on those of his troops who are terrified going to battle Mordor - he gives them an honourable task so they don't retreat in shame. I know everybody in the book stretches their limits, but no one is scolded for their inability to tackle a huge task. I find that comforting - it's hard to accept my own limitations! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

01-17-2002, 11:56 AM	#19
Fenrir Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nevrast Posts: 103	"Nothing is evil in the beginning, even Sauron was not so" Probably my favourite theme, hard to choose though. __________________ Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

01-19-2002, 04:24 PM	#20
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,783	I hate to bore everyone to death by dragging my ethnicity into this, but as a Russian, my favorite theme in LotR is of keeping faith, staying true, and fulfulling our duty to those whom we love. I was born into a society that continues to teeter dangerously on the edge of destruction, but I may never forget my obligations to Russia, no matter how hopeless it may all turn out to be. If I live a long life, I want to die with the sense that I did everything I could. And the LotR inspires me to believe that we may yet breathe life into something that has died, but only if we do not succumb to despair. ...Wow, that was sanctimonious! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~