Help! - Gondor Fiefs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

05-29-2003, 12:41 PM

Got a deeply geeky question. Can anyone help? It's indicated various times in LOTR that Gondor is divided into fiefs, like Belfalas, Lamedon and Lebennin. Are there any others?

I'm doing research for a story and wanted to list them. Here's what I think so far:

Anfalas, Anòrian, Belfalas, Dor-en-Ernil, Drùwaith Iaur, Ithilien, Lamedon, Lebennin and Lossarnach.

Got any other ideas? Lemme know.

~N~

Finwe · 05-29-2003, 02:38 PM

I think you forgot Tolfalas, but other than that, those are the fiefs of Gondor.

05-29-2003, 02:59 PM

Wow, you're so authoritative, and quick. I love that.

At the "Annals of Arda" site, they quote an unspecified text about the downfall of Numenor as saying "But the isle of Tolfalas was almost destroyed , and was left at last like a barren and lonely mountain in the water.." but I will consider it. Ten is a nice round number.

Finwe · 05-29-2003, 03:01 PM

Why thank you!

I believe you are confused between the island of Tolfalas and the Meneltarma. The Meneltarma was the highest peak on the island of Numenor, and after the sinking of the island, the tip of the peak was all that was left.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 05-29-2003, 04:05 PM

Dol Amroth? I'm not sure if it's considered a Fief or if it's only a city. But it does have its own Lord, its own crest and sent aid to Minas Tirith at the Pelennor.

[ May 29, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]

05-29-2003, 04:42 PM

Nope, not confused, though that site may be. That quote is under the entry for Tolfalas, but I have nothing to compare it to.

Dol Amroth IS considered a city the chief city of Belfalas.

I am glad this has generated some interest. Thanks all who have replied thus far.

Rumil · 05-29-2003, 05:47 PM

Do the Pinnath Gelin count, or are they part of Anfalas?

Lost fiefs could include South Ithilien and South Gondor, taken by the forces of Sauron, also Calenardhon which became Rohan.

In the list of reinforcements for Minas Tirith there were-

Forlong the Fat, Lord of Lossarnach with 200 armoured axemen

Dervorin, the son of the Lord of Ringlo Vale with 300 men on foot

Duinhir from the uplands of Morthond (Blackroot Vale) with his sons Duilin and Derufin and 500 bowmen

Golasgil of Anfalas (the Langstrand) with a long line of men of many sorts, ill equipped aparts from the Lord's household.

A few grim hillmen from Lamedon without a captain

A hundred or more fisherfolk from the Ethir (Ethir Anduin) spared from the ships

Hirluin the Fair of Pinnath Gelin (the Green Hills) with 300 green-clad men

Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, with a company of mounted knights and 700 men-at-arms.

hope this helps,

05-29-2003, 06:30 PM

After much consideration and going cross-eyed looking at maps I think I'm going with my original list. Thanks for your help, all!

Frodo2968thewhite · 05-29-2003, 07:08 PM

I have some handy maps of Gondor, and Belfalas, Lebennin, Lossarnach, Anorien, Anfalas, Lamedon, Druwaith Iaur, Dor-en-ernil, Ithilien, and Tol Falas (in a gulf next to Belfalas) are the only fiefs, yet Andrast (next to Anfalas)looks tempting. Hmm? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

Finwe · 05-30-2003, 07:41 AM

Hold on a second, what about Cair Andros? I'm not sure what fief that falls under, or if it is its own fief.

05-30-2003, 08:00 AM

Fief: A Feudal Estate.

Finwe! What happended to that decisiveness I loved so much? Cair Andros is more like an outpost than a fief. It's a fortified little island of great strategic importance, but not really occupied and having no system of social or political heirarchy. I don't think people live there; I imagine soldiers are stationed there.

Similarly, Andrast does look tempting but I can't find any indication that Gondorian people actually occupy it.

I think we're good to go, folks, with the ever-recurring mystical number nine:

Anfalas, Anòrian, Belfalas, Dor-en-Ernil, Drùwaith Iaur, Ithilien, Lamedon, Lebennin, and Lossarnach.

Finwe · 05-30-2003, 08:07 AM

Sorry! Hey, I'm only fallible. I'm not Eru. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Gil-numen · 01-04-2004, 06:17 PM

Harondor, maybe. Andrast probably had Druedain inhabiting it (see UT).

-----------------------------------
"Show it to me"
Thingol to Beren

01-05-2004, 05:52 AM

~

i would tend to list Morthond Vale (due to it being geographically seperate to Lamedon and Belfalas, and described as having a large population) as a seperate fief, and believe Dor-en-Ernil and Belfalas refer to the same thing - the fief of the Prince of Dol Amroth. Old Pukel-Land (Druwait-Iaur) and the Andrast cape don't really seem to be part of third age Gondor, the Lefnui could probably be seen as the westernmost natural barrier to the declining realm.

so my personal list would be: Anorien, Belfalas, Lebennin, Lamedon, Morthond, Anfalas, Lossarnach

the most important fiefs being Belfalas, Lebennin and Anorien due to the major cities in those regions - Morthond, Lamedon, Anfalas and Lossarnach seem to be lesser fiefs while regions like Ringlo Vale, the Green Hills and the Ethir Anduin would be below them still. Southern Ithilien below the Emyn Beraid(?) looks like a natural place for control by Pelagir (thence Lebennin) after the fall of Minas Ithil. interesting discussion based purely on conjecture [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

05-29-2003, 12:41 PM	#1
Nancy Brooke Guest Posts: n/a	Help! - Gondor Fiefs Got a deeply geeky question. Can anyone help? It's indicated various times in LOTR that Gondor is divided into fiefs, like Belfalas, Lamedon and Lebennin. Are there any others? I'm doing research for a story and wanted to list them. Here's what I think so far: Anfalas, Anòrian, Belfalas, Dor-en-Ernil, Drùwaith Iaur, Ithilien, Lamedon, Lebennin and Lossarnach. Got any other ideas? Lemme know. ~N~

05-29-2003, 02:38 PM	#2
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I think you forgot Tolfalas, but other than that, those are the fiefs of Gondor. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

05-29-2003, 03:01 PM	#4
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Why thank you! I believe you are confused between the island of Tolfalas and the Meneltarma. The Meneltarma was the highest peak on the island of Numenor, and after the sinking of the island, the tip of the peak was all that was left. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

05-29-2003, 04:05 PM	#5
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,804	Dol Amroth? I'm not sure if it's considered a Fief or if it's only a city. But it does have its own Lord, its own crest and sent aid to Minas Tirith at the Pelennor. [ May 29, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ] __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!

05-29-2003, 05:47 PM	#7
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Do the Pinnath Gelin count, or are they part of Anfalas? Lost fiefs could include South Ithilien and South Gondor, taken by the forces of Sauron, also Calenardhon which became Rohan. In the list of reinforcements for Minas Tirith there were- Forlong the Fat, Lord of Lossarnach with 200 armoured axemen Dervorin, the son of the Lord of Ringlo Vale with 300 men on foot Duinhir from the uplands of Morthond (Blackroot Vale) with his sons Duilin and Derufin and 500 bowmen Golasgil of Anfalas (the Langstrand) with a long line of men of many sorts, ill equipped aparts from the Lord's household. A few grim hillmen from Lamedon without a captain A hundred or more fisherfolk from the Ethir (Ethir Anduin) spared from the ships Hirluin the Fair of Pinnath Gelin (the Green Hills) with 300 green-clad men Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, with a company of mounted knights and 700 men-at-arms. hope this helps, __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

05-29-2003, 02:59 PM	#3
Nancy Brooke Guest Posts: n/a	Wow, you're so authoritative, and quick. I love that. At the "Annals of Arda" site, they quote an unspecified text about the downfall of Numenor as saying "But the isle of Tolfalas was almost destroyed , and was left at last like a barren and lonely mountain in the water.." but I will consider it. Ten is a nice round number.

05-29-2003, 04:42 PM	#6
Nancy Brooke Guest Posts: n/a	Nope, not confused, though that site may be. That quote is under the entry for Tolfalas, but I have nothing to compare it to. Dol Amroth IS considered a city the chief city of Belfalas. I am glad this has generated some interest. Thanks all who have replied thus far.

05-29-2003, 06:30 PM	#8
Nancy Brooke Guest Posts: n/a	After much consideration and going cross-eyed looking at maps I think I'm going with my original list. Thanks for your help, all!

05-29-2003, 07:08 PM	#9
Frodo2968thewhite Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Shire Posts: 95	I have some handy maps of Gondor, and Belfalas, Lebennin, Lossarnach, Anorien, Anfalas, Lamedon, Druwaith Iaur, Dor-en-ernil, Ithilien, and Tol Falas (in a gulf next to Belfalas) are the only fiefs, yet Andrast (next to Anfalas)looks tempting. Hmm? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] __________________ INAGURAL GOLDEN RING MARATHON, OCTOBER 20, 2005!!! FRODO LIVES!!!!

05-30-2003, 07:41 AM	#10
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Hold on a second, what about Cair Andros? I'm not sure what fief that falls under, or if it is its own fief. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

05-30-2003, 08:00 AM	#11
Nancy Brooke Guest Posts: n/a	Fief: A Feudal Estate. Finwe! What happended to that decisiveness I loved so much? Cair Andros is more like an outpost than a fief. It's a fortified little island of great strategic importance, but not really occupied and having no system of social or political heirarchy. I don't think people live there; I imagine soldiers are stationed there. Similarly, Andrast does look tempting but I can't find any indication that Gondorian people actually occupy it. I think we're good to go, folks, with the ever-recurring mystical number nine: Anfalas, Anòrian, Belfalas, Dor-en-Ernil, Drùwaith Iaur, Ithilien, Lamedon, Lebennin, and Lossarnach.

05-30-2003, 08:07 AM	#12
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Sorry! Hey, I'm only fallible. I'm not Eru. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

01-04-2004, 06:17 PM	#13
Gil-numen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cuivienen...hanging out with the fading Elves Posts: 36	Harondor, maybe. Andrast probably had Druedain inhabiting it (see UT). ----------------------------------- "Show it to me" Thingol to Beren

01-05-2004, 05:52 AM	#14
azog Guest Posts: n/a	~ i would tend to list Morthond Vale (due to it being geographically seperate to Lamedon and Belfalas, and described as having a large population) as a seperate fief, and believe Dor-en-Ernil and Belfalas refer to the same thing - the fief of the Prince of Dol Amroth. Old Pukel-Land (Druwait-Iaur) and the Andrast cape don't really seem to be part of third age Gondor, the Lefnui could probably be seen as the westernmost natural barrier to the declining realm. so my personal list would be: Anorien, Belfalas, Lebennin, Lamedon, Morthond, Anfalas, Lossarnach the most important fiefs being Belfalas, Lebennin and Anorien due to the major cities in those regions - Morthond, Lamedon, Anfalas and Lossarnach seem to be lesser fiefs while regions like Ringlo Vale, the Green Hills and the Ethir Anduin would be below them still. Southern Ithilien below the Emyn Beraid(?) looks like a natural place for control by Pelagir (thence Lebennin) after the fall of Minas Ithil. interesting discussion based purely on conjecture [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]