What about Middle-Earth/Valinor most inspires you?

[lindil]

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And as a part -Where {and when or with whom} in Middle-Earth would you go if you could? {Let's leave Valinor out just to keep it a bit more challenging.}


If you spend no small part of your 'free' waking hours here and other such places- what is it that most draws and inspires you to Tolkien's Legendarium?
For me initially it was the Elves - a race that [at the age of 13] seemed to be everything that suburban 70's people were not!
I was spell-bound by their mastery in so much that they did, their since of quality [witness the food Gildor and co. give to the 3 hobbits in the shire and the silver / blue lamps from valinor, the flets of lorien [not to mention the whole city!]
their whole manner of bearing and reclusiveness [but not totally] from mortals.
With this I would add the !st age Edain {Tuor ,Beren etc.} and the Dunedain [esp. of Arnor]
they absorbed [by choice} as much of Eldarin culture as they could and strove to live righteously
and virtuously -often at great cost to themselves-although they like the Elves sometimes fail.
I also loved the deep representation of the elemental archetypes
the Fiery Noldor, the Airy Vanyar ,
the Watery Teleri, the Earthy{or to use the chimese 5 elements I would say} Metallic Dwarves and Earthy Hobbits,
and the {using Chinese 5 elements again} the Woody Green and Silvan Elves- all with there languages , personalities and choices and manner of dwelling that reflect their essence.
As to where / whom
I would love to accompany [as the least of retainers!] Galadriel and Celeborn on their 2nd and early3rd age journeys to virtually every interesting community in M.E. [mentioned in Unfinished Tales] - but being the Airy/woody type that I am I can't resist Lothlorien as a place to land and to absorb as much as possible {rope and flet making,smithying, small-boat building not to mention singing.
Close runner's up would be early and late 3rd
age Arnor/Eriador-seeing just how intimate their relations w/ high- elves was and seeing Annuminas the city of Elendil or [late 3rd age]
travelling w/ the rangers and seeing their 'hidden fastness' somewhere in Eriador [presumably within old Arthedain].

Ah well, Ihope you have as much fun and insight into yourself with this as I did.



</p>

[lindil]

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too personal?

OK I won't solicit personal insights anymore!
<img src=smile.gif ALT="">

</p>

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: ME


Rivendell. There is a bit of everything there. I share this thing with you lindil; I have always been inspired by the Elves.
Gondor would have been good too, especially in the days of it's strength.


Sorry I can't say much now; I'm kind of in a hurry. Iwon't be around for the next couple of days, I'm away. Farewell! Wherever you fare, until your eyries recieve you at the journey's end!

</p>

[noldo]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: ME

Besides Elves, which inspire me a lot (their immortality and love), I'm actually most inspired by two places called the Mirkwood and Moria. As we all now, these two places have first been good and beautiful. But so it was that dark forces gained power in them: the dwarves of Khazad-Dum, the northern miracle,dug to low in the lust of mithril and Sauron the Necromancer settled down to the Mirkwood, known before as the Wood of Greenleaves. Evil grew strong in them and was never mown down again.

The theme of everything being so transient is one of the major themes of Silmarillion and what I love about Tolkien's works. <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

<HR>"Mind Bilbo doesn't eat all the cakes! He is too fat to get through key-holes yet!"

<A HREF=http://pub22.ezboard.com/belvenhome>Elvenhome</A> </p>

[galpsi]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: ME

Sorry to leave your question hanging but I was in Florida last week. If I could go anywhere in ME, it sure as hell wouldn't be Florida. But there are places that strongly appeal to me. Because it was where my readings so often left me, I suppose that my imagination dwells most in the fourth age, and that is an age of men and of the passing of old things.
I would love to see the restored Kingdom of Arnor. It would not be too far from home as to be &quot;an adventure.&quot; Most especially I would like to look north from Annuminas, over the twilit waters of Nenuial white-crested by the northeast wind, to see the setting sun blaze the uppermost peaks of the hills of Evendim. Even in its rebirth, the city would be suffused with the melancholy of its previous decline. Like Noldo, I am much taken with the delicate transience of good things in ME.
I would like to walk the plains of Eotheod in the high-summer and pace the remains of Framsburg in the long summer eve, to see the tide break on the old stone pilings at Lond Daer, to listen to the Anduin flowing through the empty city of Osgiliath, and then to drink wine and to remember in the good and living city below Dol Amroth. And to smell the roses of Imloth Melui.


</p>

[lindil]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> M.E. and lower earth

Wonderful postings, all!
Galpsi ,I know what you mean about Fla. I lived there for much of my 20's and finally fled to the col green and Lindon - like [or as much as america can be] Northwest.Orcas Island in particular a very Elvish place.

I have wondered just how much Annuminas was rebuilt.
The Dunedain native to Arnor could only have done so much-
[with possible help from Erebor]. I would imagine a small hidden village was all they had prior to Aragorn's High-Kingship{ a 'hidden fastness' is mentioned in the early draft of the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen} . Some second sons of nobility[among others] from Gondor could probably been induced to relocate north [or at least have summer estates !] and it could be that some of the remaiing Eldar would be less lonely there than Rivendell[ the sons of Elrond come immediately to mind] .
I can even imagine a shire colony although S. Gamgee's children had already stuck out for Westmarch. But seeing as Gondor was waning for hundreds of years prior to the 4th age it is hard to imagine more than a couple of thousand[ 1/3rd of the sizeof the army taken to Mordor!] people living there for the first generation or so.



</p>

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Gondolin

What about the Hidden Rock, Gondolin? An astonishing city, with Elves and fantastic buildings. When Tuor arrived there, he was stunned by the marvellous architecture. intrigued
I would love to have been a mariner of Numenor. They say i was a beautiful land, with great ships and cities. I would have liked to walk the lonely feilds of Anorien. I would visit the mines of the Lonely Mountain, gaze on the shores of ancient Belerian, fight a battle with the hosts of the Valar (I would, you know)or explore the depths of the valleys of Rivendell or the White Mountains. In fact I would like to go anywhere in Middle-Earth, especially if Elves dwelt there.

</p>

[coprophage7]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Where to go

Were I in Middle-Earth, I'd go to the Shire after Sam became mayor. The Mallorn tree must have been lovely to look at. Of course, I'd either need to turn into a hobbit or become invisible to visit (no humans allowed). Oh well.

</p>

[lindil]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Shire rule

I always thought that edict was a bit of an overkill.The last thing the hobbits needed was a deeper isolationist streak-maybe they had faerie anscestors after all? And no man of bree for instance who had heard tale of the Mallorn would be allowed in? hen again he probably would not have been allowed in Lorien prior to the passing of the rings either!
Then again that Law saved the High King and Queen of Arnor and Gondor from having to visit Bag End , the Great Smials and Buckhall,every time they were in his old neighborhood, now he could just swing by the brige!<img src=smile.gif ALT="">

</p>

[Balin999]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Shire rule

if i could take a tour through middle earth id like to be the companion of gimli and legolas after saurons defeat.
think about walking through fangorn with treebeard by your side or better sitting on his shoulders while you have his &quot;hum-hom&quot; in your ears all the time. and after the sight seeing tour you get an entish drink ... must be very relaxing.
and then through the caves in helms deep (cant remember their name) with gimli who is getting more and more excited because of the beauty of this place... only darkness and sometimes the dripping of water in the distance ...
oh and then id like to see moria and balins tomb... without the balrog of course



</p>

[galpsi]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Shire rule

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Then again that Law saved the High King and Queen of Arnor and Gondor from having to visit Bag End , the Great Smials and Buckhall,every time they were in his old neighborhood...<hr></blockquote>
Does this issue have the resonance for anyone else that it has for me. JRRT never adresses it head on. Surely, if Gandalf is roughly man-like in stature, he can't stand up in Bag End. Why would hobbits put in 6+ foot clearances in their cozy parlors? Did Gandalf crawl in for his visits? Or did he stoop and duck-walk like Chuck Berry? And Moria, for heaven sake? Surely the great halls might have high ceilings (high enough for men anyway) but why would any of the passages have more than about a 4 or 5 foot clearance. How on ME did the balrog wriggle up from the very bowels of the place? Maybe that's what happened to his wings -- scraped off on the tight walls. Terribly helpful post, no?
btw Balin, Gimli's beloved caves at the Deep were called Aglarond.

</p>Edited by <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000201>galpsi</A> at: 8/30/00 12:05:56 pm

[mwcfrodo]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Shire rule

Frodo on several occasions thought that Gandalf looked more stooped and care-worn than he had previously -- maybe the stooped part came from visiting with hobbits and dwarves

</p>

[galpsi]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Shire rule

More stooped and cave-worn, yes. Shrewd insight there, MC hobbit. You're new I think? Welcome to the Barrow Downs!

</p>

[lindil]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> hobbit hole clearance

You nailed it Galpsi, in my post I actually typed in about Aragorn and Arwen having to scrunch down - but then I rememberred Gandalf's visits and I couldn't well bring up problems JRRT didn't - but I do wonder.
Maybe the early bree hobbits had a tradition of building holes and houses big enough for 'big folk' just in case ? There are also references to contacts w/ elves anddwarves in the past so maybe the alleged custom goes way back. It makes a certain sense. Even if you are by far the smallest of all races -not wanting to isolate yourself from being able to have having taller company. As the Shire hobbits seemed ingeneral to be suspicious ofoutsiders ,it would have had to have beeen a long established custom.

</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole clearance

Perhaps Bag End, being one of the most luxurious hobbit-holes around, was built on a grand scale which unintentionally would accommodate 'Big Folk', even those in tall pointy hats.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[mwcfrodo]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole clearance

It's logical that Bag End, being one of the &quot;better&quot; hobbit holes would have higher ceilings.

But there are several other possibilities. At the time JRRT wrote I think that most rooms had higher ceilings that they do today, which is perhaps why he didn't consider it a stumbling block. I know when I used to rent vintage apartments, they always had very high ceilings, well over 9 feet.

That aside, even the ceilings in my present house are 9 feet -- which is about 4 feet taller than my 5'4&quot; height. There's no reason to think that Frodo, at about 4 feet (remember he was described as being &quot;taller than some&quot wouldn't have 6-7 foot ceilings in Bag End. And Gandalf wasn't likely to have been much over 6 foot -- even before he became bent with age.

I think it's safe to say that the Bree hobbits as a general rule didn't have high enough ceilings to accomodate humans comfortably over an extended period of time. Remember, at the Prancing Pony they hobbits were unconcerned over the Southerners predictions of more men arriving from the south because they refugees couldn't move into hobbit holes.


</p>

[galpsi]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole clearance

Good observation MWC. And while JRRT might have had high-ceilinged rooms in mind, I doubt it. I would expect his Shire to correspond to traditional Anglo-Celtic vernacular architecture. There are some very fine early-modern examples of this at the Welsh Folk-Culture museum near Cardiff. The ceilings were all clastrophobic and the doorways were perilously low for my unremarkable 5'10&quot;. But I'd say that your Bree example is the clincher.

</p>Edited by <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000201>galpsi</A> at: 8/31/00 2:09:31 pm

[burrahobbit]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole clearance

In my copy of The Hobbit (latest Houghton Mifflin) there is a picture of Bag-End. I'm not sure but it looks like JRRT's style. The ceiling is very tall. At least ten feet high. I would be surprised if it were as low as ten feet, judging from this picture.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[burrahobbit]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole clearance

I was right, it was made by JRRT. I found it at http://fan.theonering.net/rolozo/ima...n/bagend-c.jpgfan.theonering.net/rolozo...gend-c.jpg</a>

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[galpsi]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole mark-down

Right you are bh. But I can't say that I like the Prof's solution to the problem. If you look at that picture for even a moment, you'll notice that Bilbo can't reach his own doorknob.(!?) The Prof's written description compared the door to a porthole; that thing in the picture looks more like a bank-vault.(vaunt)
Note too that Bilbo is wearing yellow galloshes in his front-hall. What is he supposed to be, Christopher Robin or the Morton's Salt girl? I unilaterally declare this picture un-canonical and I cast JRR Tolkien from the order and from the Council! <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

</p>Edited by <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000201>galpsi</A> at: 8/31/00 3:34:07 pm

[lindil]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Does Christopher Morton of Bag -End haveWings ?

Yeah there are certainly a few proportional challenges to the painting- but after looking as closely as possible at he feet I think they might be---feet! the galoshes idea has merit but I think they are just jaundiced looking feet. The Prof. prob. used the color called 'flesh' that always looks like anything but.
As to his unilateral banishment- He will at least always be Prez of the Tolkien Society!


</p>

[burrahobbit]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole mark-down

How about this one?

http://fan.theonering.net/rolozo/ima...ien/bagend.jpgfan.theonering.net/rolozo...bagend.jpg</a>

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[mwcfrodo]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole mark-down

It's the same picture before Ted Turner colorized it. It solves the problem of the yellow boots (the yellow boots reference threw me -- for a second I thought perhaps Bombadil had been persuaded to visit the Shire) but it doesn't solve the problem of the door knob. Perhaps in devoting so much time to languages, the Professor forgot objects in the foreground are supposed to appear bigger. It's Bilbo who's out of scale, not the door. But, regardless, I think the picture shows that Bagginses had a very spacious and Wizard-sized dwelling.

</p>

[galpsi]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole mark-down

I know that I'm chasing dust-bunnies here, but:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> I think they are just jaundiced looking feet. The Prof. prob. used the color called 'flesh' that always looks like anything but.<hr></blockquote>
Then why are Bilbo's face and hands a whole different shade of &quot;flesh&quot; and not yellow? I say they're boots and I say that the Prof was sometimes potty.

</p>

[mwcfrodo]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: hobbit hole mark-down

it's the fur on the feet making them look yellow.

if frodo was &quot;fairer than most&quot; (which I take to mean blonder not cuter although I'll grant that could be debated especially with the casting of Elijah Woods as Frodo)then Bilbo could likewise have been blonder ... so the fur on the feet would be yellow...

and look close there is some yellow in the hair of the portrayed hobbit.

or it could be the professor was both color blind and a bit potty

</p>

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Inspiration

Great was the sorrwo of Earendil and Elwing for the ruin of the havens of Sirion, and the captivity of their sons, and they feared that they would be slain; but it was not so. For Maglor took pity upon Elros and Elrond, and he cherished them, and love grew after between them, as little might be thought; but Maglor's heart was sick and weary with the burden of the dreadful oath.


It inspires me to hang in there even though my entire life is on a crash-course to hell. I don't expect too much more out of life, I have learned to forfeit anything that includes the subject of hope except this very passage. It also awakens within me the fact that others also have lives and do not have YOU as their primary concern. It helps to swallow the medicine.

</p>

[HerenIstarion]

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The detailed story of Tuor's coming to Gondolin.

[Hannah Burrows]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Inspiration

If we could get back to the point. I would like to stay at the Shire myself during the time before the Long Expected Party I would (if invited) attend the party too. Ah alas I wouldn't fit in, being a foot and three inches taller than the tallest four foot hobbits, but they may accept me, I should be able to fit into their hobbit holes at least. It would be fun to sit about a fire and tell tales with the good company of hobbit folk. My choices being, Bilbo (before his sleepyness took over), Frodo, Merry, Sam, and Pippin. I'd be the only girl but good company's good company. Or perhaps I'd visit during the Unexpected Party, to listen to the music of the Dwarves but I believe I'd have to use Sam's way of doing things and listen stooped beneath the window I doubt they'd let me in! <img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol">
Ah The lonely mountain and it's great halls after redecoration. I too would travel with Legolas and Gimli to the Caves and Fangorn. And oh LothLorien! Trees of gold and no one about that you can see but you can hear them all the same.Bag End and Crickhollow would also be welcome places to visit.

" In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit . . . " That's where it all began.</p>

[Hannah Burrows]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Burrahobbit, about JRRT's pic of Bag End

I think that JRRT just had the same probs I do (only he had them worse) I can get proportions messed up and I can't draw humans for beans. I did draw a fairly decent picture of a female hobbit standing at her door, the door is labeled #9 DelveDeep Row, and I pinned a name on her, Adella Burrows. She looks bright and has long hair. She is wearing a simple dress with many skirts. I think it's pretty good for a first try, I don't have it up yet because I didn't think anyone would want to see it.
<img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin">


" In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit . . . " That's where it all began.</p>

[Zoe]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Burrahobbit, about JRRT's pic of Bag End

If you look through Tolkien's Middle Earth art, you'll find that he was really quite good at landscapes, and perspective/proportion. I think that the Bag-End picture was more of an exception. Perhaps he got so fazed by drawing the hobbit, he forgot about perspective... <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

</p>

[Anarya SilverBranch]

Probably the thing that inspires me most about ME is the romanticism of the time there, like an era gone by in our own current society. Everything seems so gallant and completely and utterly wonderful!!! I wish with all my heart I could live there instead of here!!!

Anyway, to answer your second question, I would live in the Grey Havens because I like my solitude, I love the sea, and I would proabaly get along better with elves than any other race because they like their privacy too. I also love the whole idea of sending off sailing ships with pale wooden hulls and silken sailsto the eternal lands, it sounds all sooo romantic!!! AHHH I want to live there!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Evisse the Blue]

I would happily trade E for ME any time. Every realm has its strange yet familiar wild fascination for me. It's both like a homecoming and a discovery.
I believe it has something to do with those places being "at once clear cut, as if they had first been conceived and drawn at the uncovering of the world and ancient as if they endured for ever". The quote is Frodo's impression of Lorien, but it sums up perfectly my own impression of the entire ME.

I believe Tolkien was able to awaken such feelings of longing into our hearts just by describing those places because of his own nostalgia for the pitoresque England that he loved and that was becoming more and more tainted by industrial development.

[Lostolin]

I am inspired by the Rangers of Ithilien, who have fought Sauron for a LONG time and still draw breath to fight some more. Henneth Annun and Faramir are also interesting, and I wouldn't mind to see the secret safe haven of Henneth Annun. Imagine a band of orcs marching on Gondor, and they pass through the forests of Ithilien. Suddenly all sounds stop within the forest and the orcs look around nervously. Like a flash, an arrow appears in the leader's throat as rangers appear in the trees and shoot a hail of arrows at the orcs, felling dozens. As the orcs rush the trees, they fall into expertly hidden pits covered by leaves. When more still come on towards the trees of death, swords suddenly appear from behind tree trunks as the rangers close to deal close death in melee. After stopping the survivors, the entire orc band is annihilated, and the Dunedain leader motions his men on to ambush another group of the enemy. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[mark12_30]

Lindil, I love this question; but I should answer it twice a year, at least, as my answer keeps changing and changing.

This week [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I would have to say.... The Grey Havens. Perhaps because Sept. 29 is two days away, and I have already spent time at the each thinking about it. (Too bad I can't go back to the beach Sunday, I'll be away.) Why does it inspire me so? Because of the threshold, the Traveller's choice to move on and seek the Light and the Holy and the Profound; and yet with the knowledge that not everybody chooses that, and of those that do, some will not choose it the same day the Traveller does, and will come later. The partings can be terrible.

But the Traveller must go.

[lindil]

Glad you liked it Helen, and thanks to Anarya [sp?] for reviving it.

It is good, I think to stand back a bit and to occasionaly ponder what inspires us.

Since I first posted I have been most inspired by Finrod. The little bits in the Shibboleth of Feanor, the Silm of course and the most amazingly, The 'Athrabeth Finrod ha Andreth' which must be the longest dialog w/ and elf recorded anywhere in the Legendarium.

[Glorfinniel the Lost]

While reading Tolkien's work I found I was most inspired by the whole idea of redemption and forgiveness.Take Saruman for example, though he betrayed The White Council, allied with Sauron, betrayed Sauron and wished the ring for himself, Gandalf and Aragorn were still prepared to show him mercy. Today the philosophy would most likely be "an eye for an eye, a cheek for a cheek".

As for where I'd like to live:most probaly a secluded little spot in the Misty Mounatins, away from the hurried pace of cities to think and reflect on my life in general. Or somewhere near the sea like Dol Amroth, it would be nice to watch the sun setting each evening.

[Elenna]

What always inspired me was the heroism. Here you have a great king (Aragorn) who is completely willing to give up his life for an insignificant little hobbit. And the rest of the Fellowship, while apparently leading good, rather high-ranking lives back home, are willing to go to Mordor (which would be like REALLY going to Hell) because they care so much about the world.

When does that happen these days? Ummm, never?

And if I were going to live somewhere, I would pick Rivendell at the height of its glory.

[ September 29, 2002: Message edited by: Elenna ]