Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Isabellkya]

I just realized that in my post #276, I'd written Kath where it should be Ka.

[Isabellkya]

While I agree on a level with interrogation methods to make a wolf blunder, there is a fine line between interrogating and going too far. (Not to say that Legate went too far, he didn't; it just brought to mind ruthless interrogating in other WW games on other forums.) Yet, innocents can slip under the interrogation scope, particularly newbie's who've never been around a game before and can get overwhelmed by the experienced players. I've seen it done. Yet here, I don't believe Valier or menel are new to the game.

[Rikae]

Izzy, your posts ring true and your lack of defensiveness speaks in your favor. I think I'll go with my gut feeling this time...

++Greenie

[A Little Green]

1.Rikae on the first Day.
1.1. post #62 - Her pointing out that two thirds of the players have something to hide made me thoughtful.

Originally Posted by Rikae

An unusual aspect of this game that no one has yet mentioned is the fact that most of this group has something to hide. Usual methods wolf-spotting like searching for nervous defensiveness & extreme efforts for one's own survival could spell disaster in the event that they are adopted by the ordos on the trial days, required as they are to choose between a gifted and a wolf.

Is it a wolf trying to say that not all nervous people are wolves (an attempt to protect unknown but maybe unexperienced fellows by suggesting that they are gifteds, perhaps)? Or a gifted or an ordo who wants to reduce the number of gifted-lynchings? I can't tell. Her suspicion of Azaelia seems genuine to me, and her overall manner is quite relaxed.
1.2. post #63 - nothing of significance, just casual (and off-topic) chatter.
1.3. post #73 - a simple (and genuine-looking) point, nothing notable there.
1.4. post # 84 - sensible, cool, reasoned points. Nothing new or astounding. A vote for Azaelia. Easy, sensible, and reasoned. Too easy?

Originally Posted by Rikae

I also reserve the right to change my mind whenever I see fit.

After her semi-lecture about how it is only natural that the suspicions change, this strikes me as odd. Why repeat it?

2. Izzy on the first Day.
2.1. post #69 - nothing of significance. Just a "hiiii, I'm here". Something there bothers me, though.
2.2. post #87 - general matters, still no suspicions. She is, at least this far, much too neutral. I'll read on.
2.3. HEY, WHAT'S THIS? I hope, Izzy, that you'll explain why you didn't turn up and vote after all. You didn't say anything at all about other players, except for a small remark to Nogrod, during the Day.

3. Rikae toDay.
3.1. post #268 - nothing weird in here.
3.2. post #269 - well, at least there is substance. Her novel looks quite genuine. Of course an experienced wolf could manage such, I suppose, but her manner is maybe too relaxed for a wolf.
3.3. post #271 - nothing remarkable.
3.4. post #274 - Rikae bothers me. She is either an innocent or a very very cunning wolf. I can't grasp anything from her posts. No slips, no odd phrasing, nothing at all.
3.5. post #277 - nothing to say.

4. Izzy toDay.
4.1. post #270 - still (!!) nothing about people. General (and quite sensible) points, but I must say I'm getting a little uneasy about this neutrality.
4.2. post #273 - suspicions at last, though I did notice a certain wariness in the way she phrased them. It might be only natural of course, resulting of not being sure about the suspicion which is, at this point, almost inevitable. Still, there is something I don't like in her carefulness.
4.3. post #276 - still quite general. Has a good point about Nog. I don't know if it's been stated before as I still haven't found the time to read all of the previous Days but still, a valid point.

5. In general, then. Rikae looks innocentish, though alarmingly traceless. I don't know how to phrase it, really. I don't like Izzy being so careful and neutral. All in all, I find Izzy more suspicious than Rikae.

EDIT: x-ed with everything since Rikae's post #277

[A Little Green]

Izzy, in case you're here I would love to hear your thoughts about me and Rikae.

[A Little Green]

Well, Izzy, it's up to you. Though you may be more suspicious in the classic sense, after all I find Rikae's easy tracelessness even more unnerving than that. Therefore,

++ Rikae

So, I'll say it once again: it's all up to you.

[Isabellkya]

I think I mentioned in my second trial post about voting on the trial day; and how kind of silly it is. Yes having it where the wolves don't know who each other are yet, makes it a bit more honest I would think. People could actually voice their suspicions based off of that - suspicions; rather than trying to make a case for someone purely because they are not a wolf.. and there fore must be lynched. With that, it kind of makes it hard to track how people thought of each other. With everyone knowing that the wolves know each other, behavior patterns can change. Naturally you don't want to lynch a fellow wolf, so you adjust accordingly. It sounds like I just talked in a circle.

- Just looked back while I typed this, and I must've said the post in my head and not actually posted about voting.

So I'm thinking of who is more suspicious; Rikae or Green and this thought occured to me. I think it has been sitting in my subconscious and just now found a way to come out. With now knowing who fellow wolves are, it seems it would be easier for the wolf to hide. There are three of us here, and to escape a lynch for a couple of the proceeding days, all you had to do was be vocal and show up.

For both of you I find points and arguments sensible and logical.. merely that I find a perfect hiding ground for a wolf. I'll explain; many a time I've come across the wily wolf. One whom is very logical and actually helps the ordo's; a somewhat risky yet very sneaky place to hide.

[Rikae]

Greenie, your analysis really only confirms my suspicions - although it's a shame, as you seem like a fun person to play WW with.

But really, talk about neutrality! There is a textbook example of fabricated suspicions and wolfish caution, if I ever saw it - especially since she switches her main suspect in the next post without mentioning that I voted for her.

[Isabellkya]

Ack. I don't like being in this position.

I am inclined to vote for Rikae; because she is a very dangerous person to have as a wolf, yet is very logical and sensible.. and I'm finding it hard to find something which points to her being suspicious in this game.

Green, I just have no read on..and am inclined to vote for her because a no-read wolf can be dangerous.

++Greenie

Mainly for her talking about lynching and suspicion being heavier on those from the trial day. accck

[Volo]

The last day of the first stage began. The weather was calm, sunny and only small threads of clouds swam far away in the sky. As nice as it was in a politically correct manner, some of the audience couldn’t bear the heat and cursed the day. Those who did so, were quickly removed from the living world by a travelling company of Worshipers of Universal Solar Deities that just happened to be goofing around. And they sure were lucky to be around, because unknowingly they would encounter Izz E. Yumme, the QuiteQuietestQuiter, who was once a worshiper of the solar deity Shakuru, and a member of the organization.

While her friends were ridding the world of heretics, Izz E. Yumme was enjoying a drink of Jägermeister with Rikae of Europe. ”What is this mythical land of Europe?” asked Izz with genuine interest.

”It is a secret, but I feel that I can trust you not tell it to anybody”, answered Rikae and continued with a whisper into Izz’s ear, ”Europe is a hidden land of much wealth. It lies where Gondolin once lay”.

”Oooh…” gasped Izz in awe, as she was quite interested in history and geography herself. She moved to ask Rikae about their national drink, but was interrupted by A Little Green Man who had sneaked right up to the two.

”Hullo then, Rikae and Izz!” he rasped because he had forgot to clear his throat first. He cleared it now, took off his little green hat and stood on it. ”Nothing to say really, except that I’m a very busy little green man and will be working off with a little green film. The Little Green Man stepped off his little green and put it on his head. With a bow, he rushed away.

”Ok, no problem- Rikae, as I was about to say, what is the national drink of Europe?”

Rikae took a sip of Jägermeister, ”Strangely it isn’t this medicine stuff but basic beer. Not that European beer is bad – it’s nearly as good as Mineralwasser, which is a drink that isn’t even exported out of Europe…”

”A pity… Hey, I know. Let’s rate tha performances of previous battles! I liked Menel best from the first battle!” Izz suggested.

Rikae thought for a while and agreed, ”Sure, why not. You know I actually also liked Menel most. He’s quite bold!” She took a sip and changed her position. ”It’s a pity Roa fell to her death in the second battle, she was one of the most talented fighters I’ve ever seen.”

”Weird, I personally thought that the second battle was more of joke than anything, and since you mentioned Roa, I think she was quite jumpy and hasty… Equally sad that Shasta and Mighty Rog didn’t manage to survive”. Izz sighed and poured herself more Jägermeister.

”I don’t really know what to say about the third battle, it looked lazy. Might be because of the bad weather, of course. Erm… The fourth battle was no better, none of the warriors managed to convince me”. Rikae wanted to add that the fifth battle was more like a tea party than a battle, but luckily noticed that neither she nor Izz was holding a sword, but a little glass. She took another sip and poured some more.

”Umm, yeah… I think I’ve had enough”, Izz said, but Rikae poured her some more.

”Drink up, it’s better than medicine to your health. Cheers! To our health, hehe!”

-----------~~

By the time A Little Green Man returned, the Jäger and the woman from Europe were sleeping back to back. He took off his little green hat, took his little green grapes from his little green hat and sat on it. While having his little green lunch, he pondered about the two in the end deciding that Izz is more suspicious than Rikae. He walked up to Rikae and shook her shoulder.

Rikae turned to her side with a loud snore and mumbled something like, ”*unclear* Izz *unclear* best friend *snore* Green Man kill…”

A Little Green Man jumped back with his little green heart beating a little too fast. He moved to wake up Izz. ”Honorable Izz E. Yumme, it makes me cry little green tears to say this to you, but Rikae, whom you regarded as a friend, betrayed you. While you were sleeping, she tried to steal your Pint of Jäger”.

Izz woke up with a start. ”What? Where? Who? Jäger? –meister?” She tried to fix her gaze on the little green man, but couldn’t decide which one of the many little green men was A Little Green Man and not just any little green man. She turned her eyes away and took a few deep breaths. Her head cleared just enough to see that something was going on. ”Wait a sec! You say that Rikae tried to steal my Pint of Jäger? But she’s sleeping there just as I left her…” …after stealing her dreaded ”ch” just in case. ”You’re trying to confuse me, green man!”

”It’s a little green m-”

”I don’t care! Leave me alone, I’m tired!” Izz tried to whipe away the unnecessary many little green men from her view, but by accident hit the one and only real A Little Green Man.

A Little Green Man struggled to regain his balance and retreated a few steps backwards. He felt a little green pain in his nose. As if a little green fluid was trickling down his little green left nostril. He raised his little green hand to whipe away the little green fluid…

When he looked at his little green hand he saw a little red stripe on it. His little green eyes grew large as he screamed. He raised his little nearly-green hand to his nose again and put a little green finger just below his little green left nostril. When he opened his little green eyes to look at his little green finger, he sa w that it wasn’t green at all, little – yes. It was red! Red! He screamed again and woke up the two from their sleep. ”It cannot be! It just can’t be true! A little green me can’t be red inside! It is impossible! It is-!” His voice turned into a rasp and he had a fit of hysterical coughing,

A Little Green Man crying loudly. Neither of the two others dared to say anything. After an unnaturally loud scream, Rikae reached for her Jägermeister bottle with her shaking hand and poured some medicine straight into her mouth.

”A Little Green Man can’t be red inside! No, no, no, nononononoooo! *sob* I am not worth living! I have to kill myself to save the world from suffering! *sob*” The little green/red man ran to his to little green tent where he kept all his belongings and pulled his just-little-enough-to-be-called-little green cannon out of it. He rushed to get little green gunpowder and pushed a little green sack of it into the cannon. He took a little green match out of his pocket and lit the fuse. The last thing he ever did was to get his little green/red body into the just-little-enough-to-be-called-little green cannon.

KABUUM!

The Lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliups eerioppilas flew straight at the moon. He tried to stay calm and put on his little green goggles on before getting his little green turbine out of his little green pocket. He turned on the turbine and turned his flight course by a few inches. He wouldn’t hit the moon after all.

When he finally passed the moon, its gravitation took hold of him. With the help of his little green turbine he slowly descended on to the dark side of the moon.

-----------~~

During the night between the first and the second part of the competition Sauron entered the arena himself and called for his minions. They came and their talk was full of joy to greet their master and the full moon.

”Why can’t we just go and kill all of them right now? They’re all sleeping deep! We would dig out their hearts and ate them before they noticed anything happening!” a brave Wolf shouted.

”You’re a fool to say that! There are too many of them even for us, are there not, Lord Sauron?” snapped another.

Sauron grimaced and answered through his teeth. ”You are correct! There are only five of you, whereas there are still six who would die for the Valar. Curse that Queen! She still serves Eru and yet she is too important to be removed. And even if we did get rid of her, it would be too late”.

”Master! We shall go and kill her right now, even if that won’t help, she still deserves it!”

”No! There is one person who is even a bigger threat to you at the moment. It thinks that it is safe from us, but there has been a change in my plans! Your target is…”

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon

---------~~

Stage1 is over! Congratulations to the survivors and thanks to everybody who participated in experimenting this format!

Night1 began!

The Wolves will be revealed their fellows and may PM one another.

Specials do whatever you do.

Don't post in the thread.

[Volo]

Two men were talking in the end of a narrow dark alley. Both were dressed in a dark blue suit. It was a coincidence, or rather it was caused by the current trend. However the larger man had his jacket opened and a beard while the other had a striped tie and a hat. Both had glasses. This, again, was a coincidence, although one of the men had brilliant sight.

Four Werewolves hid at the other end of the alley behind an overturned rubbish container. They were waiting impatiently for the fifth Werewolf who had promised to meet the others here. While three Wolves were nibbling at the remains of their lousy dinner, a rat, one spied on what the two men were doing. The men weren’t actually doing anything, they just stood there. Once in a while the bearded man looked at his watch.

”I really hope they’re not waiting for another one. We got specific orders not to harm anyone else”, hissed one of the Wolves.

”Yes, yes. Though we do have time, I doubt they will walk out of here together”, another answered.

”You are right… But still, we were told that the other one is dangerous”, the third said.

”Silence! Now, look, something’s happening”, the Wolf on the lookout whispered. The three others quickly gathered around it.

The man in the tie looked at his watch and nodded. He lifted a briefcase from the ground and handed it to the stout man. The stout man took it quickly with two hands that were shivering with greed. He thanked the other man by dropping to his knees and was about to kiss his hand, when the other turned away and left. He was walking at the Wolves.

The leader of the pack hissed, ”Don’t let him notice us. Hide”.

The man passed the tense Wolves without looking to his sides. He walked to the end of the alley where it met another alley, turned right and disappeared behind the corner.

The Wolves counted to ten and then sighed deep. They looked at the man who had the briefcase. He seemed to be in a hurry but uncertain of the way he should go. Whatever he was doing, he was about to leave.

”Drat, how late can one be… Ok! I think it’s time to go!”

The four Wolves jumped from behind the rubbish container and rushed at the man. He nearly dropped his briefcase in fright. He ran to the building on the left side of the alley and opened the unlocked door. The Wolves didn’t see what happened there but for some reason the man turned back and ran to the middle of the alley again. He gathered courage and shouted to Wolves, ”I’ll never tell you the password, it’s useless!”

The Wolves closed in around him as he tightened his embrace on the briefcase. The fifth Wolf walked out from the opened door and entered the circle. ”Sorry for that, I got lost on the way and thought to rather be somewhere here on time than late”.

The leader nodded and moved to the horrified man. ”What’s your name?”

”P-p-peter”.

”Hmm…” The Wolf lifted a small piece of cloth to its nose and sniffed at it. It then compared the smell with the man.

”It’s him!” cried the Wolf triumphantly and slit open his throat.

-----------~~

In a week, all newspapers wrote about the disappearance of an important cultural figure.

In a month, the police found a tightly sealed briefcase in the middle of a dark narrow alley.

-----------~~

The second stage of the battles would have started today, but when the 14 warriors entered the arena, there was no sigh of audience. This couldn’t have been anything but a cruel joke.

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon
Ugh-Friedrich - wasn't allowed to enter the temple after stage1

---------~~

Night1 ended, Day1 began.

Wolves, stop PM'ing.

You may now discuss!

[Nogrod]

Always look at the bright side of life they say...

*tries*

Well, no kill then... so we're not worse off than we were before the Night...

*tries even harder*

We have better chances to hit a wolf when they form more than 1/3 of our numbers...

*fails*


Uh-oh.

I've been in tight situations with werewolves but this looks pretty nasty indeed. With five votes they can do basically anything they wish as they have the knowledge.

We should stay in one line and not waver to lynch one of them - as they can in practise counter-vote us if they wish - but then again if they get us to go band-waggoning a wrong person they can hide in as well.

And we can't afford too many wrong decisions. In the worst case two mislynches will be the end of this.

The specials should consider their way of playing accordingly as this is no normal Day1 but merely the possible second last Day.

Okay. I try to be more cheerful soon as I get down to looking at people and what happened in the trials.

[Thinlómien]

"Good morning, fellow glad-iators", Thinlómien grinned. Then her grin faded. "Five wolves? That's a bit too much, much more than I expected to see here, not to mention my personal preferences of how much of them should be alive at this stage of the game. Maybe the lynch-the-quiet doesn't always work. Anyway, I'm afraid we're in serious trouble. They're going to outnumber us quite soon." She frowned.

"Anyway, I've been a-footbaging and watching the stars a little and I've started wondering who might be evil in our gang. Here's what I've been thinking and something to chew for you:

Legate, Menel and Valier
Well. They all seem quite wolvish, for different reasons. And they all actually acted how they normally do. However, I always suspect Menel's normal style and he usually turns up innocent, so I'd be hesitant to make conclusions about him too quickly this time. Legate or Valier then? Difficult question, but if I had to guess, I'd say Valier, she feels eeriely furry to me while my suspicion of Legate is more reason-based. (Lol, almost wrote "she makes me feel eeriely furry" .)

McCaber, Naria and Roa
A tough one. I've reread her posts and I think Roa sounded quite innocent after all, so my suspicions lay with McCaber and Naria, especially the one mentioned first, as Naria, even though looked bad, felt innocentish.

Agan, Ka and Shasta
This is more than a bit tough. Nothing can be really said about Shasta, but he mostly strikes me as ordoish. So Agan or Ka? Honestly, I have no clue. They both seem quite innocent to me. I have absolutely no reasons to suspect Agan, except maybe her feeble case against me and well, from previous experiences I should know never to trust her... But Ka seems just as innocent. Or, rather, Agan seems both less and more innocent than THE Ka, if you know what I mean.

Lommy, Might and Noggie

Originally Posted by TM, 5 minutes after the deadline

Well, I am (was) an innocent and I am saying this right now simply because that might help the good side win in the end. So good luck!

This convinced me of his innocence. So thereby Nogrod must be a wolf. Nice pretense of innocence, too bad you got caught.

sally, Kath and Gil-Galad
This Day was just agreeing and nice chit-chattering and it left me absolutely clueless of the wolf's identity. I have no idea which of these three is a wolf, I'd need a few more rereads to form an opinion. Let's hope I'll have time to do that.

Azaelia, Brinniel and Groin
I'm quite sure Groin was innocent and it was no good he was lynched. Let's just hope he wasn't a gifted. Zali still strikes me as very fishy and her somewhat nonsense-seeming analyses didn't help at all. Brinn improved her reasonableness from Day0, but I'm still quite undecided on which of them is the wolf.

A Little Green, Isabellkya and Rikae
I think the wolf in the lot is Izzie - not because she's suspicious, but because both Rikae and Greenie seemed genuinely innocent to me both on Day0 and on their trial Day. Rikae makes points a wolf would probably not make and Greenie seemed totally different from her last game where she was a wolf, not nervous or willing to please or nonsensical at all.

So, in conclusion, I'm fairly sure Nogrod is a wolf. Others who are at the top of my possibly-should-be-lynched list are Valier, Zali and Izzie. But I'm sure toDay will shed some more light on how the things stand atm and who is who.

Now, what do you others think? Come out with your thoughts, little birdsies and squirrels and wolvsies and give us something to analyse."

edit: xed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

I have a pretty strong opinion on three groups from the trials.

Valier
Meneltarmacil
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1

Even if I didn't find Menel or Valier exactly innocentish I have reasons to believe that Legate was the wolf there which would then set Menel and Valier as innocents. I've argued this already on Day0.0 and during my trial so I'm not repeating it here at least for the time being.

Someone asked why Legate made all those postings about his innocense after he knew he was going to die, what was there to gain for him if he were a wolf? A lot indeed. If we had a strong opinion of his innocense we would be heavily on Menel and Valier toDay while indeed I think we should not as they are more probably innocents.

McCaber
Naria
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2

I'm still of the opinion that Roa was a gifted - and am afraid she was a seer (one of them?) as that might just be the only role important enough to make Roa try to play it more safely.

That would mean that either McCaber or Naria is a wolf. I guess one might find reasons to suspect either of them. I need to look that Day more closely later.

Nogrod
Thinlómien
The Might - lynched on Day0.4

I find it hard to believe that The Might would have committed a suicide if he were a wolf. Sure everything's possible but if (and when) I have to bet on it I'd say that he was no wolf. And as I know I'm no wolf either the equation becomes pretty simple: Lommy is a wolf.

Also Lommy's way of playing in the trial and the way she reacted to the Might's self-vote just look as wolfy as one can look.


So this leaves me with a preliminary stance that looks like follows:

innocents:
Menel
Valier

50-50 wolf:
McCaber
Naria

wolf:
Lommy

If you think there are problems with my points please come forwards. I'm just happy to change my suspicions if you show them to be incorrect or unfounded.

I'll be back after I do some rereading...

EDIT: X'd with Lommywolf

[Thinlómien]

Eh, nice Wolfgrod. Seems like we'll spend this Day arguing as well. As if I didn't see it coming, though.

Let's not start our argument right now, though, since I'm going to sleep now. It might take me as much as 15 hours to get back online again.

Hope to see a flood of posts from everyone when I come back.

PS. I forgot to mark the x-post of my previous post. Not that I think it really matters...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Let's not start our argument right now, though, since I'm going to sleep now.

I don't need to argue that case anymore with you as I know how things are. Sorry Lommy. I may explain my reasons why I think also those who don't know it should see it but that's another matter.

But added to that your style toDay is somewhat false to be honest. You're kind of over-happy and nice, almost cooing. I myself dislike the arguments that go like "she's not playing like she usually does" when thrown around for lack of better things to say but somehow I sense nervousness you try to hide behind that babble. And then you lose your concepts like saying that you had forgotten to mark an x'posting while you didn't forget it...

But I'll take a break now and come back after a while.

[Nogrod]

C'mon people... This is no Day0.4!

[Meneltarmacil]

I can neither confirm nor deny that Legate was innocent, myself. I'm a bit wary of Valier for now, but I'll turn my attention to the Lommy-Nogrod thing at this point.

You say, Nogrod, that Lommy must be a Wolf since you clearly aren't one. Yet I'm afraid I cannot blindly trust you on that. What evidence do you have that could point toward your innocence?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Menel

I'll turn my attention to the Lommy-Nogrod thing at this point.

Well do not. This was just what I feared that might happen because we have been the loudmouths this far.

But let me tell you why - I've been thinking for some time now whether I should say this and indeed decided to do it at some point but as I need to go to sleep now and others might think the same as you Menel; focusing on myself and Lommy for lynching then we'd really do bad toDay. We need to lynch someone else than myself or Lommy toDay!

Okay.

I'm a Guardian. I have a license to kill one wolf on my own.

I will take care of Lommy the next Night. With these numbers we need the advantage the extra kill gives us. It can give us one more Day indeed.*

Why should you believe me and not Lommy?

I'll deliver you the goods the next Night. If I were a wolf I couldn't do that and then you could lynch me toMorrow and get rid of one wolf thus gaining you an extra Day as well. So you lose nothing by believing me as there will be a dead wolf in any possible scenario you might come up with.

But getting an extra wolf-kill requires that we do not lynch Lommy but that you leave her to me (obviously you shouldn't lynch me either toDay... ).

That's why we need to get another wolf than Lommy toDay as our lynchee. So we need to concentrate on other people toDay. Understand?

Why I'm so ready to offer myself out in the open this soon? Looking at the situation we're in that's the only decent thing I can do as I have the means to actually ease our situation with gaining us an extra wolf-kill. And with Lommy I'm pretty sure. With someone else it might be riskier to try.


* With the worst scenario (we lynching innocents and wolves succesfully killing one innocent during Nights) we will be at 5-8 after this Day, 5-7 toMorrow morning, 5-6 after Day2 and after the wolf-kill during the Night 5-5 in the morning of Day3 and thence all dead. Following the worst scenario as well: if you let me handle Lommy the next Night it will be 5-4 in the morning of Day3 and we/you still have a chance to continue at least one Day... and if you think I lied to you? You lynch me on Day2 and you still have 5-4 on the morning of Day3.

EDIT: the last two ratios should obviously read 4-5 and not 5-4 to follow the logic of the earlier ratios... But anyway: giving me a shot with Lommy the innocents gain one more Day.

[Meneltarmacil]

Thank you, Nogrod. And I'm sorry about the focusing-on-you two thing; it's just that in discussing the Legate/Valier thing, I do have a reason to think that Legate was telling the truth, but going into it could have hurt me considerably and I couldn't be sure whether Legate was coming up with a bold lie.

That said, I think it may be time to reveal what's happening. I am the Protector, and as such I know that one of two things are going on:
-Legate was a lying Wolf, and Valier is innocent.
-Legate was telling the truth, and Valier is the Wolf.

This should at least help in narrowing down the possibilities for my Day's suspects. I don't know if lynching Valier is a good idea right now, but with her we will have a 50-50 chance of killing a Wolf.

And I think I'll be protecting you toNight, Nogrod, so you'll at least get the chance to survive for toMorrow.

[Nogrod]

Okay, sorry to floodpost but I was writing this when Menel came forwards. And as I said we need other candidates so let's see if this helps anyone else but me to get a picture of the possibilities we face.

So continuing with the speculation...

If I'm right about Legate and Roa (or even if I have them the wrong way around) it would mean that there is one wolf and three innocents in the group of the dead:
Shasta
Gil
Groin
Greenie

To begin with I'd say that Shasta is/was innocent. That would leave Agan and The Ka as 50-50 chances of being wolves.

With Gil there's nothing. That leaves Sally and Kath as questionmarks entirely then on the grounds of the lynched giving us clues.

Groin might have been the wolf indeed as one looks at Lommywolf's posting:

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'm quite sure Groin was innocent and it was no good he was lynched. Let's just hope he wasn't a gifted. Zali still strikes me as very fishy and her somewhat nonsense-seeming analyses didn't help at all. Brinn improved her reasonableness from Day0, but I'm still quite undecided on which of them is the wolf.

So let's keep these two (Zali and Brinn) looking suspicious as they are both innocents? Check also the sentence I bolded... somehow this makes me feel very uneasy about this "analysis". Why did she say that as I don't think Groin looked especially gifted? So she thought pointing towards Zali and Brinn more pressingly ("we might have lost a gifted there!") would be nice as the wolf in that trio was killed already? So they are innocents then?

Grounded on the same reasoning I'd also look carefully about the option of Greenie having been a wolf:

Originally Posted by Lommy

I think the wolf in the lot is Izzie - not because she's suspicious, but because both Rikae and Greenie seemed genuinely innocent to me both on Day0 and on their trial Day. Rikae makes points a wolf would probably not make and Greenie seemed totally different from her last game where she was a wolf, not nervous or willing to please or nonsensical at all.

But with this I'm more insecure than with the previous one as this might also be read as trying to help Rikae if she was a wolf. Or even implying Izzie is one indeed ("not because she's suspicious")... At the moment I'd think Greenie was more likely an innocent as the case with Groin being a wolf looks far more believable. So Rikae and Izzie a 50-50 case as well? Or then I'm wrong with Legate which sure is possible even if I don't believe it at least yet...

But that's still speculation as Lommy could well make her "analysis" pointing at some fellows as looking evil and trying to help others saying / implying they are goodies - and that will turn around after we learn she was a wolf and thus adds the question whether she had that possibility of an imminent death in view aleeady when she wrote these...). Sadly they can afford these kind of tactical manouvres now with five of them around.

Anyhow that was only something based on the deaths, logical outcomes based on other speculations and Lommy's analysis. We need to check the actual postings as well.


~*~

So my take on people at this point - without a closer look on the posts themselves (I'll be back tomorrow (RL) but will have a long day at work so I can take more time here only during the last three-four hours or so):

Wolf
Lommy (not to be lynched but killed on Night2 by me)

50-50 wolves (either one of each pair is a wolf)
Agan
The Ka

McCaber
Naria

Rikae?
Izzy?

33% wolves / 66% innocents
Sally
Kath

innocents?
Zali
Brinniel

Menel
Valier

There are a lots of questions here and these speculations surely stand on other speculations. The actual posts surely matter more but these kinds of "limiting-possibilities" should be looked after as well.

I'll be back much later - with a look at all those masses of posts you will produce while I'm away...

EDIT: X'd with Menel

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

C'mon people... This is no Day0.4!

Wait...it's not? Oh okay, I guess I better post then.

On a more serious note, I was expecting to see this duel between Lommy and Nogrod. Because I'm quite sure Might was innocent (why would a wolf commit suicide), therefore one of them has to be a wolf. But which one to believe?

I think it's more likely that Nogrod here is telling the truth since I've found Lommy to be more suspicious since Day 0.6...her reaction to Might's suicide seemed to come out of nervousness of being found out...and toDay suddenly she changes her mind and says she figures Might must be innocent after all. Very wolfy indeed.

But here's my dilemma:

Originally Posted by Volo

-Werewolves and the Guardian will be told of their victim's role if the attack is successful.

Doesn't that mean only the wolves and the Guardian will know the role of the victim? I don't know...maybe I'm interpreting this wrong.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But getting an extra wolf-kill requires that we do not lynch Lommy but that you leave her to me

The problem is if we don't know the roles of the Nightly victims, how are we supposed to know whether Lommy was a wolf or not once she was actually killed? For all we know, you could be the wolf, Nogrod. Then all you'd have to do is kill Lommy tomorrow Night and say that as a guardian you successfully attacked her. So, how are we to believe you for sure?

Since I think Lommy's pretty suspicious anyway, I think the best option is to lynch her toDay so we all know for sure whether she's a wolf or not. Then we'll know for sure if we can trust Nogrod. There's a protector out there somewhere who could protect him...and give him another chance to attack a wolf.

EDIT: X-ed with Menel and Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

And I think I'll be protecting you toNight, Nogrod, so you'll at least get the chance to survive for toMorrow.

Thanks.

Although I'm not sure why you had to say that aloud. We might have just had a tiny chance the wolves would have tried to kill me the next Night while I was indeed protected and thus the Night would not have only brought us a dead wolf but also no dead innocents... well it was slight chance to be sure as I do believe that our wolves would take that into consideration. But a chance anyway.

But as we have started this kind of game let's continue it then. So please Menel think about your choice of protection still. There might be others you might wish to protect as well. Let's not keep it a sealed thing.

And if we have another protector as well then do choose someone else... Let's not waste two protections on me... or let's try to protect two totally other people so that either of you could help me over the next Night.

But let us quit this speculation now.

Let the wolves think about these choices!

EDIT: X'd with Brinn

[Brinniel]

Oh shoot, I just noticed this...

Originally Posted by Volo

-During Stage2 the role of the lynched player will be revealed to a living player chosen by random.org.

Okay, maybe my idea won't work after all...

But how are we supposed to trust anyone who reveals a lynched player's role? For all we know, that random person could be a lying wolf..

On a similar note, how are we supposed to trust anyone who says they are a gifted? With five wolves and six gifteds, I have a feeling that a lot more people going to be revealing. At this point, it's hard to tell if anyone is lying about their role or not. We don't even know how many of which gifted there are...

[Nogrod]

*I was about to go to sleep...*

Originally Posted by Brinn

But here's my dilemma:

Doesn't that mean only the wolves and the Guardian will know the role of the victim? I don't know...maybe I'm interpreting this wrong.

My first reaction to that was "Where did that come from?" but after I checked the admin. thread I saw it standing there quite clearly... and I'm afraid you interpret it just correctly even if it sounds a counterintuitive rule. Hopefully Volo could clear that issue for us.

And I thought my plan would be foolproof...

With five wolves around steering the general opinion and in the worst case only two Days to play this was most unfortunate. Sorry I didn't realise that. My bad.


Oh my... just saw this...

Originally Posted by Brinn

Oh shoot, I just noticed this...

Okay, maybe my idea won't work after all...

Maybe I should concentrate on checking the rules instead of acting...

It's 2.20 AM here and I have an early morning call.


~*~

But whatever you do I will take Lommy with me if I die.

If you let me do it by Night there will be two deaths by the Night as I don't think the wolves would leave one Night without a kill just to frame me. If I was a wolf I couldn't twist the rules to gain the wolves two kills. But that requires you will not lynch Lommy or me toDay. That I still think is our best option.

If you lynch Lommy we get rid of one wolf even if that can't be shown 100% to anyone.

If you think lynching me is a good idea I will take a wolf with me anyhow.

Your choice and my bedtime.

EDIT: bolded my actual suggestion...

[satansaloser2005]

Sally returned from her quest for food and as she neared the group of warriors heard snippets of arguments and proclamations of valor.
"I believe Noggie to be a hairy one!" cried Lommie, to which Noggie promptly retorted "Ah, but you are mistaken, my little wolfie one, for I am the guardian of whom you have all been told. Tonight perhaps you shall be re-united with your hairy little dead friends." Lommie and Noggie quickly ceased their arguing, as enel came forward saying that Legate's death was not in vain, for it seemed to seal the guilt of Val. He then whipped out a batch of herbs right as Sally walked into the group's midst and began to apply them to a cut on Sally's hand that she had somehow managed to sustain in her earlier battle. She wrenched away at first, suspecting some sort of treachery, but Menel kindly reached for her hand again and continued applying his ointments, assuring everyone that he was one of the Protectors of the warriors. Sally was no doubt in awe of what she had just heard from the group and, once Menel finished bandaging her hand, turned away from the group and walked off into a corner to think, ponder, and speak to her dainty duck, who had accompanied her earlier in the day and was in great need of rest. "I can barely believe my ears," Sally thought to herself. "So much revealed in so little time. Emily, I think we must retire and mull over this strange business of outspoken gifteds and brazen wolves. Besides, I must return my utensils and saucepan to my chambers." The little duck looked up at her mistress and, being clueless herself at the moment, could only reply with a confused and exhausted "Honk."



Okay, so I am going to be late for church, but I decided I'd have a little fun before I left. I'll be back later for some posts that exercise my reason rather than my imagination.

[Nogrod]

Sorry I repeat myself but it looks like we're going the way against our interests and playing to the hands of the wolves. But let's see the two kills on the next Night and lynch another wolf than Lommy toDay.

You'll have the proof there and nothing to lose.

---
And if you see the sense in what I say you should lend your minds to other candidates pretty soon.

That sadly would require some work from you other innocents and not only taking the easy way of discussing the thing that has opened because certain other people have been active. And if we lose on laziness... well that's deserved then.

[THE Ka]

Just wished to update what I said on the discussion thread, I won't be able to appear tonight because wednesday as a rule is the busiest day of the week for me. I'm terribly sorry about this, as it is annoying. I will be able to in the morning, which should be a few hours before night two.
I've been reading posts as much as time will allow me, so, hopefully I won't be as clueless as I am now, tomorrow.

Also, just curious, why are some of the specials giving their positions away? I'm confused, I thought... Ugh. This makes things difficult for me, and probably a few others as well.
Oh well, this is the first time I've played a game where specials gave positions away. I guess there is a first time for such things.
I still have no clue as of yet, but I might soon.

Well, just wished to check in, and let all of you still around that I haven't disappeared or want to be killed off more than anyone else.

~ Ka

[Rikae]

Well, if we can trust both Menel and Nogrod, I will eat my hat. Nogrod's case is fishy enough, what with the fact that roles won't be revealed upon death - but what kind of Ranger reveals on Day 1? I suppose it may just be a major blunder on Menel's part, but it doesn't look good to me at all. Still, from their day in the ring together, I found Valier the most suspicious of the group... at any rate, I suggest that tangled mess is one best left to the seer(s) for the moment, when there are other trios which offer slightly better odds of finding a wolf at this point, I suppose.

McCaber and Naria need to be looked at - as I said before, I found McCaber's non-vote and response to Roa's vote creepy, and I would very much like an explanation from him.

Shasta, I think, was a very likely ordo, and therefore a wolf should be found between Ka and Aganzir... however, that's a tough call. Nogrod, I would like to know why you are so convinced that Greenie was innocent - although I am not as confident about her guilt as about Gil and TM's innocence (I doubt very highly wolves would behave as they did), I certainly found her behavior yesterday - especially at the end of the day - wolfish. As for it being different from her last wolvish performance, that was her first game and I have little doubt Greenie is a quick learner.

I don't particularly like the way Sally posted in the trial and is posting now. Sure, in-character is fine, but too much is too much - and I have an instinctive distrust for "cutesy"ness in a werewolf game. Her posts seem calculated to create an aura of harmlessness.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Someone asked why Legate made all those postings about his innocense after he knew he was going to die, what was there to gain for him if he were a wolf? A lot indeed. If we had a strong opinion of his innocense we would be heavily on Menel and Valier toDay while indeed I think we should not as they are more probably innocents.

Wait just a minute here. How do we get from Legate having a lot to gain as a wolf from declaring his innocence (true, he would, but an innocent could just as well do it in a last attempt to help the village), to Menel and Valier probably being both innocent (ie, Legate was probably a wolf)? Both of them look more wolfish than Legate in my eyes, and though I've said I think they're best left for later, I think you ought to explain this a little further, day 0.0 suspicions notwithstanding.

I also don't think that Lommy's words about Groin are much evidence of anything either - if she is a wolf, she certainly realises she's cornered and is capable of coming up with double or triple bluffs as she sees fit. Groin's behavior looked innocentish to me at any rate, while Zali's was quite the opposite and Brinn's somewhere between. I'm not about to toss aside my own judgement on the word of one self-proclaimed gifted based on that of a possible cornered wolf, and I strongly suggest that we all analyze our suspects as thoroughly as possible toDay, and not take anyone's word without a grain of salt. Actually, I would always advise that, but especially now, as the setup of this game makes false gifted revelations too easy, and the numbers mean the stakes for this day one lynch are incredibly high.

Actually, we really need to think carefully about this Nogrod/Lommy situation. I have no doubt that one of the two is a wolf... and I certainly find Lommy more evil-feeling of the two. However, if Nogrod is not dead toMorrow, we have to lynch him, regardless of Lommy's role, which we won't know for certain anyway - because if he was the wolf and we let him live toMorrow, we lose the game.

Well, that's a bit of a ramble, and I'm not sure what conclusions I can come to at any rate. It's difficult to be forced to ignore four people among whom you are almost certain two wolves can be found - but I guess I will examine days 0.3, 0.5, and 0.6 more closely. The three lynched on those days look decidedly ordoish (and it does appear that mostly ordos were lynched in the trials), so looking at the survivors should be fruitful; the trio on day 0.2 is one I don't really feel so confident about - any of them could be a wolf - so I'll leave it alone for now.

We've heard so little from so many people at this point, finding a wolf outside of the Lommy/Nogrod/Menel/Valier circle still feels very much like a shot in the dark - I certainly hope we get some serious participation toDay, as we need it! I will be back with whatever I can discover about Agan, Ka, Sally, Kath, Brinn and Zali (although it may not be right away, as I'm dreadfully busy, the spring semester having just begun).

Off the top of my head and instinct alone, I think that of these six, Ka, Sally and Zali look the worst; Sally and Zali for reasons I already mentioned, and Ka mainly by default, as Aganzir's posting has been quite substantive in an innocent-feeling way, and truly substantive posting is the most difficult thing for wolves to pull off successfully, while Ka has taken refuge between a great deal of (entertaining, it's true) in-character posting. Yes, I hear Agan's a dangerous wolf (I wasn't in that game), but she feels innocent to me thus far.

EDIT: Added spaces between paragraphs, and crossed with Ka.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm willing to trust Noggie in this case, I think. He makes a very bold claim, but backs it up well. It could all be head games, but I don't think he'd dare us to call his bluff here:

If you lynch Lommy we get rid of one wolf even if that can't be shown 100% to anyone.

If you think lynching me is a good idea I will take a wolf with me anyhow.

Your choice and my bedtime.

...unless he *really* meant it. It's too risky.

I am a bit perplexed as to why Menel would think it was a good idea to reveal. Why not just quietly do his job? All he's doing is risking his own neck this coming Night, unless the wolves want to perhaps discredit him (it's happened to rangers who revealed before).

Edit: 400th post!

[McCaber]

All right, I'm here. You say you want an explanation from me? Here it is.

Throughout the day I was working on one long reasoning/vote post. To make a long story short, my vote would have gone to Roa. Looking at the entire thread, I realized that she didn't really make arguments one way or another. We seemed to be allies of convenience, just because Naria wasn't there. She had no real reasons for her vote, except maybe to try and gain an ally. Naria, on the other hand, put her thoughts out there logically. She was desperate and sarcastic sounding, but I would be too in that situation. Her analyses made sense, and they really were much of what I was thinking. Concisely, Roa creeped me out. What she said really was not what I'd expect from a (by reputation) very good player.

I tried to post that then, but RL happened just at the wrong time for me.

Now, to current events. Out of Nogrod and Lommy, I also suspect Lommy. She seems to be trying to weasel her way out by casting suspicion on others. But there are a lot of other wolves out here, and we should start looking for them when we have a chance.

[Meneltarmacil]

The reason I revealed myself was to show why I thought Legate could be telling the truth, and to show that Valier is a possible wolf. Legate was very specific about being an Ordo, and I felt that revealing my role would help us catch the Wolf from that day. Of course, the possibility exists that Legate lied about his innocence, but with my role revealed the controversy of "Menel or Valier" ends and we have another "50/50 Wolf" with Valier.

[Naria]

Just got off work. This will be like last week. I will do a post before I go to bed, cast my vote before I go to work in the morning and not be around for the rest of the Day.

Looks like I have a bit to catch up on. Off to do some reading....

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I don't particularly like the way Sally posted in the trial and is posting now. Sure, in-character is fine, but too much is too much - and I have an instinctive distrust for "cutesy"ness in a werewolf game. Her posts seem calculated to create an aura of harmlessness.

You know me. I like to enjoy myself. By the way, just a word of warning, sometimes I just feel the need to give myself a little in-character action, so I'll occasionally post a silly little thingy in character just to get myself into the game so I can actually post. But I'm not just going to do character stuff, as you now know.



Okey dokey, I've read the posts and decided myself three lists of suspect pairs. Bear with me, because they're a little out there and a bit underdeveloped right now but I haven't slept in like 24 hours so I'm a little loopy....er.

Noggie and Menel: Wow. If they both came out as gifteds and are really wolves, not to mention if they pull it off, well....again, wow. Doubting that this is the case, but if it is....kill me now wolves, kill me now. You're just too snazzy for little Miss Sally.

Lommie and McCaber: Lommie seems quite suspicious right now, and since I'm rather tired and McCaber is one of my other suspects for just acting odd and the whole not-voting thing on his day I'll pair them together for now. Not that I necessarily think they are wolves TOGETHER, but I am pretty certain that one, if not both, are.

Lommie and Valier: Might doesn't seem the type to kill himself and leave his wolfy cohorts, so I take him for an innocent. And I believe Noggie, because....well, because it's Noggie I guess. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my proverbial hat. Which means Lommie's the only wolf candidate left from their day. But, I've already covered Lommie a bit and so have a couple other people, so I'll just leave her be after that brief comment and try to get on to others. Val, for instance. Now, assuming that Menel is indeed what he says he is, I definitely think Val to be the wolf in the group. I've not played that much with Legate, but I don't believe he would make that much of a fuss if he was a wolf. Anyway, if Menel is the gifted and Legate was the innocent, that (as has been pointed out) leaves Valier as the wolf.

My favorite pairing, just based on how likely it is, is probably Lommie and Val. Val seems to be the odd wolf out of her battle day, and since Lommie has been acting strange today (well, stranger than usual hehe) I'd have to say that my preferred vote would be for Valier, unless evidence surfaces to support a better choice. If, however, Noggie turns out to not be what he claims (and the same with Menel) heaven help us all, because we will have lost two innocents (possibly gifteds) and not yet found a furry fiend. But I'm willing to take that risk since Noggie seems convincing and reasonable, and process of elimination seems to suggest that the two women in question are wolfies.

Wow, I'm actually semi-coherent for once. Ish.

[Isabellkya]

I am not trusting these 'reveals'. With Legate, I did find his behavior wolfy; just not as wolfy as Valier's. Yet I would not put it past him to make such a bold move to reveal himself as a non-wolf upon his death. Quite often, when people absolutely know they will die.. they like to leave parting words to their fellows. In the case of dying wolves.. it is not unheard of for them to leave a parting monologue so as to confuse the village.

Nogrod's reveal, I just.. something doesn't feel right about it. It is too 'non-perfect'. When you go about making a plan, especially when it can involve your death; you want it fool proof; so as to not make a waste of it. Every detail is going to be scrutinized, yet if a bold wolf schemes in such a way; I would think that they wouldn't want it to look like they've covered evey single basis. Because it seems that villagers have the benefit of getting things wrong... of having a bit of doubt. (If that makes sense, it makes sense in my head.) Forgetting some crucial pieces of this game as he did.. it just feels wrong.

Menel's reveal, I just don't see the reason. It almost seems like he was wanting to ride the reveal coat-tail's of Nogrod.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Authority

-Werewolves and the Guardian will be told of their victim's role if the attack is successful.

The Wolves kill somebody at Night - the role of the dead player is revealed by PM to the Wolves.
The Guardian kills somebody at Night - the role of the dead player is revealed by PM to the Guardian.

Originally Posted by Authority

-During Stage2 the role of the lynched player will be revealed to a living player chosen by random.org.

It may be a Wolf or an Innocent or a Special, it may be somebody who survives the Night and it may be somebody who doesn't.

[Nogrod]

Back with a clearer mind for a while aka I have slept...

Even if we won't know the roles of those dying my actions and death can prove a few things depending on how and when I die and what I can do.

When I die someone goes with me thus proving I was what I am. It all goes down to when do you want to know it and how much do you wish to gain.

If you lynch Lommy toDay you can't be sure what I am and what she were. Also you leave me much more insecure with my option on actively killing someone during the Night and I might blunder (dare not to try or get it wrong) the extra kill we could have.

If you can't wait for answers but need to know it toDay then lynch me. I can take Lommy with me as an extra price and you know what we both were.

But if you let me handle Lommy the next Night you'll find Lommy dead in the morning with someone else. So there will be two deaths by which you can see that I'm indeed your guardian and you can trust me. Then I have a chance to help you both with my thoughts and in the end possibly with hunting down one more wolf.

If there is only one kill during the Night it will be because either the Protector does save someone or the wolves try to frame me with not even trying to kill anyone. Now these would be great options! We'd have a Night with no dead innocents but a dead wolf instead.

Now if you wouldn't trust me then (after the Night with only Lommy killed) I'm more than happy to call for my own lynch toMorrow. I believe I'll have formed enough good ideas of people by then that I can confidently harvest one wolf down with me at the end of Day2.


So killing either me or Lommy toDay will gain us less while letting me a go with Lommy the next Night will make us gain more while not risking anything.

Think about that.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm not about to toss aside my own judgement on the word of one self-proclaimed gifted based on that of a possible cornered wolf, and I strongly suggest that we all analyze our suspects as thoroughly as possible toDay, and not take anyone's word without a grain of salt.

I do agree 100%. And I'm already starting to rethink my opinon on Legate even if I'm not yet ready to change my view (his Day one start was so wolvish and he would have pulled that ending speech to lead us astray were he a wolf). Okay. I need to think it through.

[Nogrod]

Whatever the role of Legate was or the intention behind Menel's revealment I'm feeling those who have spoken on behalf of Legate's innocence more innocentish than not as there would surely be easier trios to try and stage someone who is actually innocent for lynching toDay.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nogrod, I would like to know why you are so convinced that Greenie was innocent

Actually I'm not convinced about her innocence and I've never said I was. But looking at Lommy's posting toDay I find it more probable that Groin was a wolf and there aren't so many wolves we managed to lynch during the trials.

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod, you're evil. That is a very cunning ploy indeed and nice way of declaring oneself gifted without having to make up false seer dreams or anything else as messy and you can always back up your "revelation" with your wolf-kills. Also, pretty impressive way of killing a gifted off at night and still maintaining an "innocent" status. Even a bit too neat, if you ask me.

*sigh* I had hoped to survive longer and to be of more assistance, but now that the wolves have found a way to kill me at Night without incriminating Nogrod, my game is played.

I'm a Defender. If the/a protector protects me next night, I can still be of some assistance. Besides Nogrod's obvious wolvery I know of one person's non-ordoness.

Do you wish me to come out with his/her name? I can redream of him/her next Night and if I survive, we'll have a second wolf spotted with good luck.

~*~

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And then you lose your concepts like saying that you had forgotten to mark an x'posting while you didn't forget it...

Come on... Even wolves need to make a bit more credible arguments. What kind of "proof" is that? I thought I hadn't marked the cross-post, because when I was trying to submit the cross-post edit Mozilla became veeeeery slow (it didn't update the page in something like 5 minutes) so I closed the Mozilla window and opened IE and I assumed my edit had not been submitted since the Mozilla screen was closed when it was still showing the editing screen.

[Brinniel]

About Menel's reveal: I think his decision to reveal was overhasty. While I know there was some debate on which of the three is a wolf during the Stage 1 Days, it had hardly been discussed at the point when Menel revealed. He wasn't in any danger of getting lynched at the time, yet we was so eager to copy Nogrod's actions and reveal. But while I think his decision was overhasty and foolish, I'm not sure I actually find it wolfish. Because why would a wolf unnecessarily put himself on the spot like that? It'd be one thing if he were actually receiving votes, but that's certainly not the case...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If there is only one kill during the Night it will be because either the Protector does save someone or the wolves try to frame me with not even trying to kill anyone. Now these would be great options! We'd have a Night with no dead innocents but a dead wolf instead.

Now if you wouldn't trust me then (after the Night with only Lommy killed) I'm more than happy to call for my own lynch toMorrow. I believe I'll have formed enough good ideas of people by then that I can confidently harvest one wolf down with me at the end of Day2.

While I wouldn't put it past the wolves to try to set you up...if only Lommy was killed come tomorrow Night, there's just no way to know for sure whether she was a wolf or not. And as eager as you may be to get lynched Day 2, that wouldn't accomplish anything either. How are we to know whether to believe the random person who receives information on your role isn't a lying wolf themself? And in an even worse case scenario, that random person could end up getting killed Night 3. And then we'd never know who was telling the truth..

EDIT: X-ed with Lommy. Oh my.