The most powerful good characters

[GildorInglorion]

I'm new here so please be forgiving and give interesting "answers"


Who might the most powerful good (and evil) characters in the history of middle- earth?
And in the third age?
Can one compare Aragorn with Isildur and Elendil, or are the mighty warriors of the second age more powerful?
And who has most power of Aragorn, Gandalf the White and say Cirdan. Ideas?

Hmm... What do I mean with powerful? ... very uncertain but a combination of things like strenth, wisdom, see the future but also things like ability to summon an army, fight one to one and the effect one's actions had upon the fate of middle-earth.
And of course willpower (Aragorn favourite).

[Helkasir]

Of all of The Tolkien works, Eru, Iluvatar, was most obviously the most powerful. But he can't really count; He's like, "THE" god. He is creation itself, and so on.

Of those who ever entered middle earth, the Vala were the most powerful.

Good Vala: Manwe was king, but I don't think he was most powerful. Tulkas wasn't as wise, but he was, well, Hercules, if you take my meaning. Ulmo might take the most powerful as well, becaus ehe was lor dof the ocean.
Bad: Melkor. He was the only Ainur turned bad. The only one. In his own way, Morgoth- Melkor was more powerful than any other Vala one on one. His army took on all the Vala at the same time. Says somethin for him.

Children of Iluvatar: Of all the children, it was said the feanor as the the most pwerful bar none. Even though he lost, Feanor had to be damn powerful to take on all the Balrogs at one time. His only contestant was his brother Fingolfin, in my opinion. Fingolfin did a good job of fighting a god like Vala.

In the 2nd age: There isn't a good amount written for this age, but, there's some.

Good: I think King Gil Galad of the elves take this, or maybe Elendil. One of the two. Celebrimbor needs to be added there too. because Galadriels real power only bloomed until the 3rd age, and Cirdan never really took part, I don't count them. Glorifindel wasn't super powerful, but he was a high Elf of Valinor.

Bad: The most powerful that was active had to be Sauron. I mean, the balrogs were more Powerful, but not smart. Other than him, not much was written about powerful intelligent enemies.

3rd Age:
Good: At this point the Istari entered middle earth. At the End of the Third Age, I wonder if Mithrandir Gandalf could take Sauron. I had this discussion with tothers, and we agree that, if the rings of power get taken out of the equation, Gandalf could take 'em. Bombadil was obviously more powerful than either of the two, but he's a bit wacko.....

I think, in terms of men, they didn't have as much "Power" in the metaphysical, being men. But Aragon was just as courageous as either Elendil or Isildur.

[Diamond18]

That was a good answer, Helkasir. I guess I don't have anything to add...I'm just here to say "ra ra ra" for a change.

[Guildo]

I think Morgoth was more powerfull than Souron.

[GildorInglorion]

Let's leave Vala out of this...

Fëanor and Fingolfin as one and two, that seems reasonable.
In UT Galadriel is stated number two, but one must take into consideration all that is written about her. But I think she was the real elven-lord in the third age, with Elrond as second and Cirdan third. Even though he saw longer than anyone in ME, thus giving his ring to Gandalf.
Eärendil probably did the most for ME, but I feel it had more to do with goodness then power (Like Sam and Frodo reaching mount doom)
Trying to compare Elves and Wizards I feel that Gandalf the white did and COULD accomplish more than Elrond and Galadriel.
On the other hand, Gandalf didn't dare use the palantir, which Aragorn did. And Aragorn is great, think about what he did in the paths of the dead.
Beren and Turin were great men, but they never ruled, never commanded.
I put Elendil ahead of Gil-galad. Perhaps the numenoreans were stronger than the elves of the second age, thus having a more powerful king. Also, i have read somewhere that Gil-galad died before Elendil and that Elendil played the more active role in "Killing" Sauron.
Glorfindel maybe as a fighter, but not in wisdom and understanding.

Of the evil, Maybe
1 Ungoliant
2 Sauron
3 Ancalagon
4 Glaurung
5 Gothmog
6 Shelob
7 Balrog of moria

The witchking's powers go up and down. But i think he could have defeated Gandalf W in Minas Tirith, The Balrog of Moria did not defeat Gandalf GREY...

[GildorInglorion]

I don't want to forget the mighty forces of nature.
Treebeard and Thorondor are better as friends than foes:-)

[Rimbaud]

Luthien was the greatest. This was expressly stated by Tolkien on a number of occasions. Read this thread (note the graph, a vital resource). [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The Greatest of the Eldar

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hmm. I was just about to point out that Tolkien called Luthien the Greatest of the Eldar, but you beat me to it.

But that's only if we don't count the Valar, then you would have to give the award to Melkor. Eru says this himself (I think, could be wrong)

[GildorInglorion]

Thanks, inghteresting reading, though a bit destoyed by the idea that repeating "Luthien was the greatest" over and over again is interesting reading. The graph was much more informative!

There are lots of powerful characters I havn't included in my discussion, mostly because one doesn't know so much about them and they are hard to compare with the rest.

Finrod Felagund, The first elven kings, Finarfin, Melian and Tinuviel. Ectehlion.

I would love to hear ideas about them, or others, or the ones I have taken up.

And can anyone give me an opinion about Eërendil?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

But that's only if we don't count the Valar, then you would have to give the award to Melkor. Eru says this himself (I think, could be wrong)

You're not wrong about Ilúvatar's statement, which is

Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor

(Ainulindalë)

However, Lúthien is still the greatest of the Eldar, regardless of whether or not you count the Valar, since they are Ainur, not Elves. Of course if you really meant that the Valar constitute the most powerful of the beings living in Middle-earth, I should say that this thread is about the most powerful good characters, amongst whom I never count Morgoth Bauglir.

That discussion was hilarious, Rimbaud. Thanks ever so much for the link. I hope that we'll be seeing a lot more of burrahobbit's illustrative charts in future.

[Helkasir]

Your right, in that case. But, if you read the Sil in the chap. about the kinslaying, etc. and the part where Feanor dies, Tolkien said that Feanor had such a fiery spirit that his body burnt away, and that his caliber of elf was never seen again on ME.

[GildorInglorion]

Please, don't forget the s in the topic!!!

[steve]

I would have to say the strongest people in middle earth (this is third age) would have to be, for good, Gandalf the White, and Thomas Bombadill, and for evil, well... Sauron and Durin's bane
but as I said, this is just the third age

[Afrodal Fenyar]

Well, has anyone counted how many times has Tolkien has said somebody to be the most powerful, of the mightiest?

Húrin, the mightiest of the warriors of men.
Ar-Pharazon, the mightiest of the kings of Nümenor.
Morgoth, the mightiest of those who dwelt in Arda at it's beginning.
And so on.

Rarely somebody is "one of the most powerful" or "one of the greatest".

So, I believe that the mightiest of the Eldar is Fëanor. He created the Silmarils, and is said to be the greatest of the noldor. He banished Morgoth from his doors, and when chasing him to the Middle-Earth he fought damn hard until his death.

And when he died, his body burned because of his great spirit.

Now, Lúthien entered Angband - a deed I believe Fëanor, in his madness, would have
done without any fear. So, Lúthien was probably wiser than Fëanor, but that doesn't make him any greater of more powerful or mightier than Fëanor. Yet it doesn't put Fëanor above Lúthien.

Or wait!
What kind of power are we talking of?
Fëanor's power was in creating things and in speaking, manipulating people - with his speech he won the trust of the noldor, and led them to war.
Lúthien was the most beatiful(see, superlatives strike again) of the Eldar, and a great singer - remember her songs to Mandos and Morgoth, and she was very wise. But she got caught pretty many times.

So, Lúhtien was a great healer and migthy in singing(for the "magic" of the elves was in songs), and Fëanor in crafting and manipulating people. It's really hard to say which one is the greatest.

It could as well be Fingolfin, who was a great warrior, wounded even Morgoth, and was not far from killing him.

But somehow, I still want to say Fëanor. I've always thought of him as the greatest of the Eldar.

But of the GOOD it's surely Lúthien, for Fëanor was cruel and evil, due to the lies and evil deeds of Morgoth.

Sorry about my english.

[ October 19, 2002: Message edited by: Afrodal Fenyar ]

[ October 19, 2002: Message edited by: Afrodal Fenyar ]

[Afrodal Fenyar]

And of 2nd and 3rd Ages I post another reply.

At the 2nd Age many great persons still lived.

Ar-Pharazon of Nümenor was a great king, but actually had no power himself.
Galadriel was the second powerful of the noldor.
Gil-Galad was surely a mighty king, and had some might himself, too.
Elrond was very wise and powerful too, surely, but I think not greater than Gil-Galad or Galadriel.
Celebrimbor was a great crafter.
Círdan was very wise, but not very powerful, I think.
Elendil was a great Man, and had probably great power of will, for it is said that he could turn the palantír even to the tower of Avallone in Eressea.
Sauron, with the ring, was very powerful, though not in the art of war, it seems, for he lost to Elendil and Gil-Galad. And I believe the mightiest of the Second Age was Sauron, but of the good, I think Elendil. The Men of Nümenor were great.

And the Third Age. Galadriel and Elrond still dwelt in Middle-Earth, and the istari came. Sauron was only a shadow, and even when he rose again, he was not as powerful as he was with the ring.
Aragorn had great will of power too, like Elendil, but surely not so great. He was still able to resist Sauron, who corrupted even Saruman, much more older, wiser and greater than Aragorn.

Galadriel, perhaps. She was maybe even greater than Sauron, or at least equal to him, I think.
Sauron or Galadriel was the mightiest. Or so I believe.

Gandalf himself said that the Black was greater than him, so it cannot be him.

Of the good, Galadriel, probably.

[ October 19, 2002: Message edited by: Afrodal Fenyar ]

[GildorInglorion]

Afrodal Fenyar, thank you for your posts. It was exactly that kind of reading I wanted when I started this topic.

I think Gil-galad was more powerful than Elond and Galadriel in the third age.

Gil-galad led an army, that defeated Sauron, with the one ring.
Gandalf and Aragorn, in my opinion good competitors to both Elrond an galadriel led an army that would have been defeated by Sauron, without the ring, had it not been for Frodo.

Gil-galad also fought Sauron and killed him together wih Elendil, I don't think Elrond could have done that.

Elond and Galadriel were probably wiser though. After all, they had lived much longer.

[ October 19, 2002: Message edited by: GildorInglorion ]