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Old 08-07-2005, 03:49 PM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
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Silmaril LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 06 - The Battle of Pelennor Fields

This chapter picks up the narrative where Chapter 4 ended - with the Nazgûl King at the Gate of Minas Tirith. Though things are not going as he planned, he is not defeated yet.

The narrator describes the battle scene, following Théoden, and only after he falls do we get Merry's point of view again. Dernhelm is revealed and Éowyn's bravery sparks Merry's courage so that, between the two of them, they accomplish the seemingly impossible task. This scene provides us with some of the most famous lines of the story - and sheer endless debates on the prophecy concerning the Witch King's death and the part the two and their weapons had to play in it.

I was struck by Éowyn's fearlessness in rereading this chapter. Do you think this results from her upbringing and Rohirric tradition, or is it because of her hopelessness, which is greater than any fear?

How does Théoden's death scene with his words to Merry affect you?

Merry asks the question about Gandalf's whereabouts for the readers; it will be answered in the next chapter.

What do you suppose Éomer thought when he saw his sister on the battlefield instead of safe at home, where he must have assumed she was? He asks if it is madness or devilry, so he obviously didn't know of her presence with the troops. Does his fey mood help or hinder the battle? A bit later, we read, "his fury had betrayed him".

Isn't it unusual that Snowmane, a horse that has such a terrible role in the death of its master, is buried with a gravestone that even has a poem on it?

Do you remember your first reading of the book - did you think Éowyn was dead, as did Merry and the Rohirrim? Prince Imrahil, a favourite minor character of many, plays a small but important part here.

The battle continues, and things worsen for the allies, seeming to get even worse with the arrival of the Corsair ships. Even the wind that had seemed friendly to them now seems to have brought more hosts of enemies.

Then comes Arwen's finest hour! The banner she made for Aragorn turns their hearts to hope and the tides of the battle to victory.

Hard fighting and high losses finish off the chapter, with a glimpse of a future song by a Rohirric poet.

Let's discuss the poetry in this chapter as well as the events - there are several short poems in addition to the longer one at the end. Though relatively short in length, the chapter is packed full and gives us much to talk about!
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Old 08-08-2005, 01:04 AM   #2
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affect me? yes, it does...

I won't come out with analysis this time round, but as one of the questions posed in Esty's initial post inquired about feelings, let me state that this is a chapter to send shivers down my spine more often than not (only surpassed by Rohirrim horns in the morning by the end of chapter 4 with regards to intensity of shivers ). My skin prickles as I read through the verses of the chapter:

Quote:
Mourn not overmuch! Mighty was the fallen,
meet was his ending. When his mound is raised,
women then shall weep. War now calls us
and

Quote:
Out of doubt, out of dark to the day’s rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope’s end I rode and to heart’s breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!
First is what he soothes his men with, caring for them, but for himself is the second verse, stating the loss of hope.

But Aragorn is again symbolic figure, the King to bring the Hope back, and his dialogue with Éomer upon their foretold meeting on the battlefield is another piece to make my hair stand on end:

Quote:
Thus we meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor lay between us,’ said Aragorn. ‘Did I not say so at the Hornburg?’
‘So you spoke,’ said Éomer, ‘but hope oft deceives, and I knew not then that you were a man foresighted. Yet twice blessed is help unlooked for, and never was a meeting of friends more joyful.’ And they clasped hand in hand
Though it is unclear whether Aragorn is a Seer of a kind, or it is luck that brought them than and there to make Aragorn's words true, but one tends to believe it is not merely luck, but Luck in a sense of Fate.

And as is oft with Tolkien, the chapter resolves not in a tense of the battle, but in a tender reflection upon future lament made for the fallen, thus, indirectly hinting there will be a future, giving the attentive reader hope that despite present horror and hopelessness, there still will be people to sing:

Quote:
We heard of the horns in the hills ringing,
the swords shining in the South-kingdom.
Steeds went striding to the Stoningland
as wind in the morning. War was kindled.
There Théoden fell, Thengling mighty,
to his golden halls and green pastures
in the Northern fields never returning,
high lord of the host. Harding and Guthláf
Dúnhere and Déorwine, doughty Grimbold,
Herefara and Herubrand, Horn and Fastred,
fought and fell there in a far country:
in the Mounds of Mundburg under mould they lie
with their league-fellows, lords of Gondor.
Neither Hirluin the Fair to the hills by the sea,
nor Forlong the old to the flowering vales
ever, to Arnach, to his own country
returned in triumph; nor the tall bowmen,
Derufin and Duilin, to their dark waters,
meres of Morthond under mountain-shadows.
Death in the morning and at day’s ending
lords took and lowly. Long now they sleep
under grass in Gondor by the Great River.
Grey now as tears, gleaming silver,
red then it rolled, roaring water:
foam dyed with blood flamed at sunset;
as beacons mountains burned at evening;
red fell the dew in Rammas Echor.
This is a song made some generations after, lamenting, yes, mouring is not that intense as if they were personally involved, it is more close to tender sadness than to soaring pain of bereavement, but this very tenderness of the lament is what gives hope more than anything all will come to a 'good end'

Talking of feelings again, it helps (in my personal case, of course) to 'feel the chapter' even more intensely if reading it simultaneously listening to Nightwish, album 'Century Child', specially 'End of All Hope' song, the very thing I'm doing alongside composing this post
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Old 08-08-2005, 11:45 AM   #3
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Éowyn's courage is a highlight in this chapter. I think there are several factors that bring out her fearlessness.

Hopelessness is a major factor. For the last few chapters, she has been looking for death, and it is that impression which remained with Merry during their ride together. But even more than despair, I think Éowyn draws on love for Théoden.
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'Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!'
A cold voice answered: 'Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye.'
A sword rang as it was drawn. 'Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may.'
'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!'
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. 'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'
Her answer to the Witch King isn't resignation to death or defeat, but one of defiance in defense of her "lord and kin." So while her journey to battle may have been born out of loss of hope, here at least I think she is acting not only out of the recklessness of despair, but also out of both her upbringing in Rohan and a love that outweighs any fear. All three acting together are an amazing combination.
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Old 08-08-2005, 12:12 PM   #4
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The episode of Theoden's fall, the Witchking's defeat, and the victory (and wounding) of Eowyn and Merry is the iconic episode of this Chapter, but to me the part that always stands out in my mind is the onslaught of the Rohirrim AFTER Theoden's death as Eomer- and the subsequent passage:

Quote:
Out of doubt, out of dark to the day rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!


These staves he spoke, yet he laughed as he said them. For once more lust of battle was on him; and he was still unscathed, and he was young, and he was king: the lord of a fell people. And lo! even as he laughed at despair he looked out again on the black ships, and he lifted up his sword to defy them.

And then wonder took him, and a great joy; and he cast his sword up in the sunlight and sang as he caught it. And all eyes followed his gaze, and behold! upon the foremost ship a great standard broke, and the wind displayed it as she turned towards the Harlond. There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor;, but Seven Stars were about it, and a high crown above it, the signs of Elendil that no lord had borne for years beyond count. And the stars flamed in the sunlight, for they were wrought of gems by Arwen daughter of Elrond; and the crown was bright in the morning, for it was wrought of mithril and gold.

Thus came Aragorn son of Arathorn, Elessar, Isildur's heir, out of the Paths of the Dead, borne upon a wind from the Sea to the kingdom of Gondor; and the mirth of the Rohirrim was a torrent of laughter and a flashing of swords, and the joy and wonder of the City was a music of trumpets and a ringing of bells. But the hosts of Mordor were seized with bewilderment, and a great wizardry it seemed to them that their own ships should be filled with their foes; and a black dread fell on them, knowing that the tides of fate had turned against them and their doom was at hand.

East rode the knights of Dol Amroth driving the enemy before them: troll-men and Variags and orcs that hated the sunlight. South strode Eomer and men fled before his face, and they were caught between the hammer and the anvil. For now men leaped from the ships to the quays of the Harlond and swept north like a storm. There came Legolas, and Gimli wielding his axe, and Halbarad with the standard, and Elladan and Elrohir with stars on their brow, and the dour-handed Dunedain, Rangers of the North, leading a great valour of the folk of Lebennin and Lamedon with the fiefs of the south. But before all went Aragorn with the Flame of the West, Anduril like a new fire kindled, Narsil re-forged as deadly as of old; and upon his brow was the Star of Elendil.

And so at length Eomer and Aragorn met in the midst of the battle, and they leaned on their swords and looked on one another and were glad.
Of the death of Theoden and the Witchking episode, the part that chokes me up the most is Theoden's farewell to Merry. That Theoden, at the point of his death, has time to think of Merry when his body is in great pain, and he has many others who will miss him even more:

Quote:
'Farewell, Master Holbytla!' he said. 'My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!'

Merry could not speak, but wept anew. 'Forgive me, lord,' he said at last, 'if I broke your command, and yet have done no more in your service than to weep at our parting.'

The old king smiled. 'Grieve not! It is forgiven. Great heart will not be denied. Live now in blessedness; and when you sit in peace with your pipe, think of me! For never now shall I sit with you in Meduseld, as I promised, or listen to your herb-lore.' He closed his eyes, and Merry bowed beside him. Presently he spoke again. 'Where is Eomer? For my eyes darken, and I would see him ere I go. He must be king after me. And I would send word to Eowyn. She, she would not have me leave her, and now I shall not see her again, dearer than daughter.'
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Old 08-08-2005, 12:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celuien
But even more than despair, I think Éowyn draws on love for Théoden.

...here at least I think she is acting not only out of the recklessness of despair, but also out of both her upbringing in Rohan and a love that outweighs any fear. All three acting together are an amazing combination.
Celuian, that is a wonderful thought - Éowyn acts out of love, and that is what turns the tide!
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:52 PM   #6
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Along a similar line, it is fear for another rather than himself that awoke Merry's slow-kindled courage of his race.
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Old 08-09-2005, 11:16 AM   #7
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These staves he [Eomer] spoke, yet he laughed as he said them. For once more lust of battle was on him; and he was still unscathed, and he was young, and he was king: the lord of a fell people. And lo! even as he laughed at despair he looked out again on the black ships, and he lifted up his sword to defy them.
I can understand in a way why he has this reaction. I have of course never been engaged in a battle. But I know that when so many things have gone wrong, if I'm having a really bad day, and there's really nothing I can do about any of it, I have two options. I can either be distraught and cry about it, or I can laugh my head off because the world is so bizarre. More often than not I go for the latter, and just get giddy.

More substantial thoughts when I have the book with me.
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:04 AM   #8
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Ah, this is one of my favorite chapters, for so many reasons.

One of the things I've found interesting about this chapter is the way it manages to give the reader a sense of the family feelings of Theoden and his 'adopted children', Eomer and Eowyn. They are his own kin to start with, and Eomer is the next in line biologically, but there is a sense of sincere caring between the three of them. As Celuien points out, Eowyn is strongly motivated to take her stand against the Witch King out of love for Theoden. I agree that she is more motivated by that love than by her despair and her upbringing. Eomer's cry of "Death take us all!" after Eowyn is found dead (he thinks) on the battlefield is despairing, but I think it's despair rooted at least partially in shock and grief at having lost the very last members of his family -- one of whom he thought safe back in Rohan. And as he is dying, Theoden thinks of his place among his ancestors as well as the family he's leaving behind, specifically calling Eowyn "dearer than daughter".

Compare the feelings these three express in their words and actions to Denethor's treatment of Faramir!
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Old 08-20-2005, 07:54 AM   #9
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Some rambling observations here for this incredible chapter, which I must say has always drawn from me strong emotions.

Estelyn mentioned how the title of our last chapter used alliteration. There's lots in the poems in this chapter which imitate Old English style--which I would assume comes from Frodo the real narrator rather than be one of Merry's perceptions--but one of my favourite lines is the following:

Quote:
And now the fighting waxed furious on the fields of the Pelennor; the din of arms rose upon high, with the crying of men and the neighing of horses.
There's a great deal said in LotR about the rightful or proper relationship with the nature world, but not much said about how humans treat animals. Wasn't it in "On Fairy-stories" that Tolkien said one of the three most great desires was to understand animals? Here of course the horses and 'elephants' are bred as war machines.

The strange winged creature who bears the Witch King. Where does it come from? It is a creature out of a dark, primeval past, as Shelob and Ungoliant?

Quote:
it was a winged creature: if bird, then greater than all other birds, and it was naked, and neither quill nor feather did it bear, and its vast pinions were as webs of hide between horned fingers; and it stank. A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in the forgotten mountains cold beneath the moon, apt to evil. And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all other things that fly;
I cannot recall now what we discussed about Ungoliant's history, but now I am wondering just what this older world was. Is there anything elsewhere which explains how it fits into the Legendarium?

Quote:
but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand, Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues . . . . East rode the knights of Dol Amroth driving the enemy before them: troll-men and Variags and orcs that hated the sunlight.
I thought that evil could not create. In discussion of Melkor's intent with Luthien, there was serious debate about whether he could procreate. So how can we have half-trolls? Or does this rather signify the depths of depravity that men are capable of?

There is one other passage that I think is highly ambiguous. (I'm not sure if we will be called upon to suggest a movement between Frodo's recollections and his POV and his attempt to suggest Merry's POV.)

Quote:
These staves he [Éomer] spoke, yet he laughed as he said them. For once more lust of battle was on him; and he was still unscathed, and he was young; and he was king: the lord of a fell people.
What is going on with this description of the Rohirrim as "a fell people"? We've just been given a description of the Dark Lord feeding the Witch King's flying creature with "fell meats" as a way to develope evil. Why now--at this moment of Éomer's battle lust and in the midst of the most incredible battle chapter of the book--are his people described as fell?

There's a possibility of answer at the end of the chapter:

Quote:
And in that hour the great Battle of the field of Gondor was over; and not one living foe was left within the circuit of the Rammas. All were slain save those who fled to die, or to drown in the red foam of the River.
In my understanding of warfare (which is limited and partial I admit), the souls of soldiers were vouchedsafe by the idea that they were to fight to defend themselves and take a military target but not to take up the deliberate intent to kill. (It's a fine line, I know, but one which speaks to the integrity of the individual soul.) The most foul form of war gave the command, "take no prisoners" where even those enemy who surrendered or who were incapacitated were to be killed. Is that what happened here? Or was the blood lust so great upon them?

I'm probably bringing in primary world assumptions about war, but I wonder if there is not something here which suggests Tolkien's own conflicted attitudes about war. Is there a Middle-earth Clausewitz?
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Old 08-20-2005, 08:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
So how can we have half-trolls? Or does this rather signify the depths of depravity that men are capable of?
Same way we can have half-orcs probably.
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Old 08-20-2005, 08:49 AM   #11
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So it's just another sleight of fiction then, eh, Kuru? And "fell people" as well will fit that category.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:44 AM   #12
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Boots Yet another instance where things revolve around the word "like."

The word "like" is used. For somebody like me, in order to be consistent, I must take the view that these were not in fact half-trolls but only looked like...er...I mean similar to a troll.

Not to get too technical but I see a number of problems with breeding humans and trolls together.

Quote:
And "fell people" as well will fit that category.
I think "fell" is a morally neutral way of saying "dangerous" or "unpleasant." It would be both to be at the sharp end of the Rohirrim army and the food given the fell beast (which was also dangerous and unpleasant) was probably not the most savory of substances.
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:43 AM   #13
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Eowyn fought as a woman.

She could have trembled in fear before the Witch King, surrendering to hopelessness in full knowledge that there's no way she can defeat him. (After all, she was of the 'race' of Men.) Or she could have chosen to ignore the Witch King's statement and continue to fight as a man, as Dernhelm. In doing so, she would be less likely to be underestimated in terms of strength. A woman in the midst of battle could either have been played around with (so to speak) or slain right away by such a powerful enemy, no matter how skilled she might be.

But Eowyn risked her life by letting down her hair and revealing her womanhood. She most probably had no idea that there is a prophecy concerning her foe's fall, so that knowledge could not aid her. For all she knew, she was just taking a bold yet stupid move, not to mention clarifying things. But her boldness was rewarded. Where sufficient strength could have been found not, victory emerged.

(I don't know if that was clear, but the general idea sure made sense in my mind.)

*disappears like a bubble*
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:42 PM   #14
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But Eowyn risked her life by letting down her hair and revealing her womanhood. She most probably had no idea that there is a prophecy concerning her foe's fall, so that knowledge could not aid her. For all she knew, she was just taking a bold yet stupid move, not to mention clarifying things
But she does know- Witchy-poo just told her himself.
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:08 PM   #15
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White Tree

Structurally, "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields" starts with a fairly wide focus, following the Rohirrim into battle. It zooms in like a camera on a helicopter (or a Fell Beast) to Theoden as he is felled by the Witch-king. The encounter with Eowyn is almost intimate: it's two figures on the stage; Merry is almost an eavesdropper.

And then, slowly, after Merry and Eowyn have won their surprsing victory, the camera pulls away again. I still agree with much-younger Formendacil that the eucatastrophic arrival of Aragorn is a favourite part--though I would narrow down my specific moment of joy not to the fact that it is Aragorn (though, of course, it is) but the unveiling of Elendil's standard. We were told in "Minas Tirith" that only the Guard of the Citadel still bear the black and silver with the Tree of Gondor--a last ceremonial memory. Here that memory (and it's a High Priestly one) arrives at the most desperate hour in the flesh.

On a far more minor note, the emergence of Aragorn, Eomer, and Imrahil as a Three Musketeers-esque trio pleases me.
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:48 PM   #16
Galadriel55
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I just reread this chapter because I couldn't keep away. I actually started with the previous one and got carried forward by the momentum. Here we see the resolution of the tension that was building in Merry's story line since his separation from the rest of the Fellowship. The tension peaks in the previous chapter, with Merry having lots of second thoughts about his decisions and struggling to master his fear of the upcoming battle, and seeing Theoden doubt their efforts and their chances - and now the battle is there and they are fighting.

The whole chapter is an emotional roller coaster for the characters and the readers alike. The Rohirrim have come - but Theoden dies - but Eowyn kills the Witch-King - but Rohan's forces are insufficient to overcome the hordes of Mordor - and the corsairs are coming - but they aren't corsairs, it's Aragorn and the saving of the city. There are so many ups and downs packed within this chapter, and each one of them is emotionally loaded, so this chapter is packed with energy. I don't think there's another chapter in the legendarium that is packed with such an intense roller coaster as this one. Either the mood doesn't change as drastically and rapidly from grief to elation to dread and back again, or the events are not as emotionally charged.

There has been some talk above about Eowyn: though her journey was spurred by hopelessness and almost passive suicide, her encounter with the WK was spurred by love and defiance. I think that's absolutely true, but I also think that there are more links between her two states than this dichotomy implies. Firstly, I think that hopelessness is what partially played into her courage; not to understate her own inherent courage, but she seemed beyond the bravery of other men. It's almost like she has nothing to fear from the WK because she has nothing to lose. There is no blinding her with an animal fear of death because she seeks death, she is not afraid of it beyond the bravery of non-suicidal people. She is also incredibly firm in her identity and proud of it. It's part of what drove her to desperation, because with that understanding of identity she strove for goals and hopes that were out of her reach. But now it's what keeps her going: she is proud and steadfast in her convictions.

The Eowyn scene is my favourite part of the chapter. My heart still soars and falls with every new turn of the roller coaster, but this is the part that I reread the oftenest. I think I'm a bit of a Merry here: wanting to be inspired to be the better person by all that Eowyn is in that moment. Merry is the person in the scene I more readily compare myself to - I don't even hope to be an Eowyn in that situation, I know I wouldn't have the guts, but I hope I could be a Merry.
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