Arcane Topic Warning! Probably only Dwarf fans will find this interesting.

[Kuruharan]

My essential question is was the Lonely Mountain inhabited before the Kings of Durin’s Folk moved in and set up shop there?

At first glance this may seem like an exceedingly strange if not downright silly question. We have Thorin’s statement in The Hobbit:

It had been discovered by my far ancestor, Thrain the Old, but now they minded and they tunneled and they made huger halls and greater workshops-and in addition I believe they found a good deal of gold and a great many jewels too.

A look at Appendix A tells us…

Most of those that escaped made their way into the North, and Thráin I, Náin’s son, came to Erebor, the Lonely Mountain, near the eastern eaves of Mirkwood, and there he began new works, and became King under the Mountain.

This all seems pretty simple and clear-cut. However, when one begins to investigate a little deeper the situation becomes a little bit more complex.

It is clear from his writings, particularly the “Of Dwarves and Men” essay found in The Peoples of Middle-Earth, that Tolkien conceived of Durin’s Folk controlling something of an empire in the First Age and in spurts in the Second and Third Ages. In the words of the Professor himself…

They regarded the Iron Hills, the Ered Mithrin, and the east dales of the Misty Mountains as their own land.
-“Of Dwarves and Men”

…in reference to the First Age (and we can probably safely assume they thought this way for a considerable time afterwards). In this little empire, the Iron Hills are referred to as being the Longbeard’s primary source of iron (remarkably enough…). In a footnote to this same section it says…

It was a brief period in the dark annals of the Second Age, yet for many lives of Men the Longbeards controlled the Ered Mithrin, Erebor, and the Iron Hills, and all the east side of the Misty Mountains as far as the confines of Lórien; while the Men of the North dwelt in all the adjacent lands as far south as the Great Dwarf Road that cut through the Forest (the Old Forest Road was its ruinous remains in the Third Age) and then went North-east to the Iron Hills.
-“Of Dwarves and Men” footnote 30 emphasis mine

This footnote further beclouds the issue. Thorin refers to Thráin I as having “discovered” the Lonely Mountain. In the appendix it is referred to as “came to.” Given the length of time that the Longbeards seem to have regarded what became known as Wilderland as their own personal stomping ground (which they shared with Men to do all that icky farming and provide warm bodies during war) it is difficult to believe that they did not know the Lonely Mountain was there. Then there is the footnote that says they “controlled” it.

One way of explaining the situation is that perhaps the Dwarves knew it was there but did not consider it to be of importance either for trade (there are indications in Tolkien’s writing that the Running River area was not thickly settled until much later in history) or for resources. Perhaps from time to time they maintained outposts there or something like that (understandable in unstable times). However, there is a problem with the “know it was there but not think it was important” theory. Thráin could not have made what could be considered a beeline for it after the destruction of Khazad-dûm. He fled in 1981 and the Kingdom under the Mountain was not founded until 1999. This could imply a certain amount of wandering in the wilderness. It may be that Thráin attempted to settle someplace else several times before. For instance, there could have been failed attempts to reestablish themselves in some of their old holdings in the Misty Mountains. These could have ultimately failed because of the orcs in the northern mountains simply proved too numerous. The ancient city of Gundabad probably fell to Angmar sometime between 1300 and 1409. Perhaps after the destruction of Khazad-dûm Durin’s Folk made one last attempt to retake and settle it? In any case, the Lonely Mountain still did not seem to be the sort of place that anybody wanted to stay because Thorin I took most of his people north for a few centuries. It was only after they seem to have exhausted all other possibilities that the Dwarves settled down in the Lonely Mountain (for a little bit). And then in Dain's day Balin developed a bad case of itchy feet...

Anyway, that is my attempt to explain the “difficulties” in this rather obscure topic. I’m curious to see if anybody notices any shattering problems or has noticed something blindingly obvious that I’ve missed (this happens so frequently that I’ve gone blind).

[Formendacil]

I would say that the Dwarves MUST have KNOWN of Erebor...

But perhaps they did not know about the caverns... Perhaps, Thrain's discovery was the large, inhabitable caverns already waiting in Erebor to be settled- perfect territory for the Dwarves, who would have been looking for a ready-made home, I imagine, after losing both Gundabad and Khazad-dum. Maybe Thrain took a look around and said:

"Yup, this looks good. All we need is a little dynamite, to make a decent-sized door over by that river there, maybe a few power-sanders to smooth things down, and perhaps a few Men to grow some cabbage, and we're all set. And hey! Is that a really big, shiny, Arkenstone over there? Yup, my Dwarvish heart says this is perfect."

Or something like that...

[HerenIstarion]

Probable (and speculative) reason for dwarven 'unwilling' for taking up Erebor may have been its 'Loneliness' - being 'lonely', it was easier to besiege (even if it was fully manned, or rather, 'dwarfed') than Iron Hills or any other mountain range, given sufficiently large army, of course.

[alatar]

Was mithil ever found in Erebor? Methinks not, and after all of the mithil in Khazad-dum, maybe the dwarves saw the Lonely Mountain as unimportant, until, that is, they really really needed a place to live irregardless of the mithil status.

[Kuruharan]

I think Moria was the only place the dwarves (or anybody else) ever found mithril. I don't think they thought they would find it anyplace else. One has to assume they looked for it throughout the Misty and Grey Mountains during the millennia they largely had free rein in the area.

I think HerenIstarion may be on something with it being lonely. They may have thought it was a small place stuck in the middle of nowhere (they were used to romping about entire mountain ranges, after all). This is partially a reference to the murmurs that Gloin mentions to Frodo.

[Alphaelin]

How nice to see a Dwarven thread among all the Hobbits, Heros and Elves. (Mind you, all the Free Peoples of M.E. have their own gifts, but this is an interesting change.) What an intriguing question, Kuruharan.

Kuruharan wrote:

My essential question is was the Lonely Mountain inhabited before the Kings of Durin’s Folk moved in and set up shop there?

HerenIstarion wrote:

Probable (and speculative) reason for dwarven 'unwilling' for taking up Erebor may have been its 'Loneliness' - being 'lonely', it was easier to besiege (even if it was fully manned, or rather, 'dwarfed') than Iron Hills or any other mountain range, given sufficiently large army, of course.

I agree with HerenIstarion regarding the reason why Erebor was not settled before Thrain I and his exiles arrived.

Thinking about it, I wonder if Erebor had been discovered by the Dwarves and minimally developed as a sort of 'emergency' resting/hiding place. (The Dwarven equivalent of a Motel 6, lol?) If your people are in control of a mountain range or two, one lone mountain days away from your nearest kin or tribe wouldn't sound that desirable as a place to live, but it might come in handy for travelling parties needing shelter in the Wild. If Erebor was excavated only to hold small numbers of Dwarves originally, that could explain why the dwarves didn't discover any precious metals or gems before Thrain I arrived and began more extensive work.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

My essential question is was the Lonely Mountain inhabited before the Kings of Durin’s Folk moved in and set up shop there?

I think that essentially the Erebor was uninhabited. There was no gain for the dwarves by moving into a lone mountain in the middle of nowhere.

I don't mean to bring up the 'Chicken and the Egg' comparision here. But could it be possible that one of the reasons that the dwarves moved in was because of Lake Town and the ability to trade with humans?

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

I think that essentially the Erebor was uninhabited. There was no gain for the dwarves by moving into a lone mountain in the middle of nowhere.

I don't mean to bring up the 'Chicken and the Egg' comparision here. But could it be possible that one of the reasons that the dwarves moved in was because of Lake Town and the ability to trade with humans?

Hmm.. very interesting, I think that Lake Town probably came before the dwarves settled into Erebor...

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

Hmm.. very interesting, I think that Lake Town probably came before the dwarves settled into Erebor...

Thanks TGEW. If what you say is true, then that conferms my theory.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

Hmm.. very interesting, I think that Lake Town probably came before the dwarves settled into Erebor...

Well, it's not for sure. In both Appendix A I and III we read that there were the Northerners living between Celduin and Carnen before the coming of the Dwarves. The question is, whether "between" includes also Lake-Town. In Hobbit, we read that Dale was built only after the Dwarven realm under Erebor was founded; on the other hand in UT (Cirion and Eorl, right at the beginning) we read that Éotheod was formed from runaway Northerners who merged with the people from Dale. But neither of this speaks for the existence of Lake-Town. Another thing is, that before the Dwarves came - and later, the Dragon - there was the realm of Wood-Elves reaching as far as Celduin, resp. to the western shores of the Long Lake.

Originally Posted by UT, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn, Appendix B - The Sindarin princes of the Silvan Elves

extended into the woods surrounding the Lonely Mountain and growing along the west shores of the Long Lake, before the coming of the Dwarves exiled from Moria and the invasion of the Dragon.

Now the question is whether there will be Men living there under such circumstances. That's a question opened for everyone to answer to himself, based on his own conclusions on what he thinks is more plausible.