Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[Glirdan]

Oh, and as for your voting in the Mandos idea.....

To be quite frank, I didn't get it at first. The wording had me all muddled and it didn't help that there was the faintest hint of math in there (and you can ask dear Wilwa herself on how much I hate math and avoid it as much as possible) thus making me quite confused and reluctant to say anything.

But phantom has gone and kind of, cleared the air, so to speak....well kind of.

So before I give my opinion on anything, I just want to make sure I understand this properly.

Depending on who was up for lynching, if the person that was lynched was a Wolf, the last person on the list for being lynched will get the vote, and if the person lynched is innocent, the first person on the lynching list will get the vote? Am I understanding that right? Or am I still all muddled up??

xed with phantom and nerwen

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Her absence and lack of....shall we say enthusiasm (and because I know she has a LOT of stuff going on in RL)...leads me to believe in her innocence.

That's what I mean. That's why it's a perfect strategy. And of course there is the chance that she has somehow found something more interesting than WW in her RL. Fat chance of that I know, but still, maybe just maybe there are other fun things to do? Football for instance?

And naturally bits of that aren't completely serious, but anyway, the way she came in late with the "oops" just really made me raise my eyebrows. If it's not a bit of strategy then it's certainly a bit of meta-game gamesmanship on her part that makes her look quite clean, which isn't exactly proper.

But yes, certainly if she's risking modfire it'd be silly to bother, and I hadn't planned on doing it today anyway. My strong words were meant more for her, along the lines of threatening her to play just in case she was just floating around out there watching.

[the phantom]

I think that's the idea, Glirdan. (I wasn't the one who came up with it, so I can't answer for certain.)

For instance, today... We sent down Nog yesterday. The dead check Nog overnight and if he comes up WW then the last person on the list (right now it's Shasta) gets the extra vote, which we would see in today's narration. If Nog comes up non-Wolf then Agan I believe gets the extra vote.

At least I think that's what Agan had in mind.

[satansaloser2005]

Dumb question regarding Agan's plan. What if we lynch Phantom (for instance) and he's a wolf with Wilwa? Or what if he's an innocent and Ang is a wolf? We could easily learn loads from beyond the grave but end up letting wolves steer the lynches as a result.

Maybe the village could decide on two people that we trust the most, and have them be the indicators, rather than simple alphabetical order? Of course if they die, we have to select new people, but I like it better than it just being the alphabet. At the same time, if Wilwa dies I'm at the end, and I know I'm innocent, so I'd be okay with having the power (), but to others it could still appear dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, princess. It's a good plan. I'm just worried about how it'll pan out.


ETA: make that Greenie, not Ang. But still.

ETA #2: Forget what I said about the alphabet. I'm a dork. Insert list for alphabet. Sorry. :/

[the phantom]

Wait, what if there's a double-lynch some day. Which player will the Dead check?

Unless someone else comes up with something, how about we just say the FIRST to reach their final vote total is checked by the Dead. Oh- and just so we have this straight, we will consider the extra vote to be cast at the same time as the regular vote of the person with the extra voting power.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Depending on who was up for lynching, if the person that was lynched was a Wolf, the last person on the list for being lynched will get the vote, and if the person lynched is innocent, the first person on the lynching list will get the vote? Am I understanding that right? Or am I still all muddled up??

I've been confused about it too, but from how I read it.

Agan says in the Dead thread, the person who gets lynched will be the one they vote on and to check their role. (This makes sense to me, since Manwe's been found to not be a wolf at least. Shasta and Fea clearly aren't wolves, and I don't think Fea's a cobbler. Agan will also be in the dead thread, so this puts solid control of the thread in innocent hands).

Now. In order to send information from the person we lynch they will double-vote based on the living-player list (not the lynch-list). If wolf, the person last on the living list will get the double vote. If not wolf, the person first on the living-list will get the double vote. In a sense then there is a delayed transfer of information. Since we won't discover whether the first, or last name on the living list got the double-vote until the next days lynch. But still it's a way to transfer info from the dead thread to the living about prior lynches without having to lose and rely on Glorfindel.

I can't think of a better idea right now. And at least for tomorrow, with the dead thread being firmly in innocent control I say go for it. I can see the risk once the living list gets low, and the dead thread possibly isn't controlled by the innocents. However, if that's the case then we're doing a good job as it is in lynching baddies.

I echo the others in let us know clearly how long and the plan, Agan, so we don't botch and mis-read the transfer of info from the dead to the living.

Edit: crossed with everyone since

Glirdan's

post

Edit 2: Glirdan should be bolded there, but accidently wrapped his name in quotes. Oh well, I liked it.

[Mithalwen]

You could make it odds and even places on the list to give less scope for the wolves to anticipate the votee and give thedead more flexibility?

[elronds_daughter]

I don't quite understand this vote-related system of communication (but that's probably my fault for not having time to read thoroughly). But as long as it makes sense, it's fine by me.

Anywho. Must run soon, so...

++ Lommy

Because despite her endearing comparison of me to Pooh, she seems (to me, at least) to be playing oddly.

Besides, if it turns out she's innocent, she's one of those "helpful ghost" candidates.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a double-lynch. That would be bad. Ugh.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by the phantom

That's what I mean. That's why it's a perfect strategy. And of course there is the chance that she has somehow found something more interesting than WW in her RL. Fat chance of that I know, but still, maybe just maybe there are other fun things to do? Football for instance?

And naturally bits of that aren't completely serious, but anyway, the way she came in late with the "oops" just really made me raise my eyebrows. If it's not a bit of strategy then it's certainly a bit of meta-game gamesmanship on her part that makes her look quite clean, which isn't exactly proper.

But yes, certainly if she's risking modfire it'd be silly to bother, and I hadn't planned on doing it today anyway. My strong words were meant more for her, along the lines of threatening her to play just in case she was just floating around out there watching.

Sitting back and pretending to forget that the game is going on, and willfully not participating, is not a strategy I have ever, or will ever use. Not playing in order to skim by without suspicion is a way of cheating in my eyes, and I wouldn't ever do that. I honestly totally thought it was still Night time, the last two days have been so crazy they must have just muddled all up into feeling like 1 really long day in my mind.

I do have a lot on my plate right now, and Glirdan is the only person on the entire planet who understands the full extent of it. I didn't expect it all to effect this so much, I actually thought this game would be a way to get my mind off it, but I just find myself forgetting about the game instead. I'm really sorry about that, because this game has amazing players and a fantastic concept, and I was really excited to play. I'm especially sorry because the next two Days fall on my 2 busiest days of the week, and I know for a fact that I will not be able to come on at all toMorrow, and probably very little the Day after. I'm tempted to just let myself get modfired, but I don't think that would do much good for the village, and I already feel bad enough about my lack of participation, I don't want to make things worse by decreasing our numbers.

So since I can't make an informed decision for a vote, seeing as how I've barely had the chance to skim through toDay, I'm probably going to copy either Shasta or Agan's vote, since they are the only two I know I can trust. At least that way my vote is more like giving one of them an extra vote, since an uneducated vote by me could cause more damage. It's the best I can do, and I'm really sorry I can't be of more use.

x'ed with e_d

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mith

You could make it odds and even places on the list to give less scope for the wolves to anticipate the votee and give thedead more flexibility?

Yes, I like that!

Now about multi-lynches- what about today? It's very close between Lommy and Nessa. If they end up 1 vote apart they could very well be doubled. If they end up tied then almost certainly only one will be lynched (and who knows which?). How worried should we even be about a double? I mean, I'm thinking even if Nessa is up by two when I vote I'll still want to take a shot at Lommy seeing as I suspect her. It would be kind of pointless for me not to try and give her the possibility of being lynched if I just plan on trying again tomorrow, right?

Or is this a case where the loser should just swallow it and do what is possible to avoid the double? The later we get in the game the more pointless it seems trying to dodge doubles seeing as the liklihood of hitting a WW is higher at this stage. Yes?

[Mithalwen]

Obviously if we do that Agan needs to say which list they use. Since the answere is statistically less likely to be wolf than not I suggest they use the living list for the day which means they can vary who they choose rather than their most trusted player being on the wrong side if they say used the original unchanging sign up list.

[Glirdan]

OH!! Okay, we mean on the dead thread list!! Got it!! Okay, makes more sense when you explain it with names lol

And in that case, I am much more inclined to agree with phantom and Nerwen and say that we need to set a deadline on how long this will go for, because, as pointed out already, as the list of the living gets shorter, the easier it will be for the Wolves to manipulate this to their own agendas.

EDIT: xed since phantyphaces explanation to me

[Loslote]

I like Agan's plan, even more so with Mith's alteration.

So the lynch is between Lommy and Nessa? I'm leaning a little bit towards Nessa, but I wouldn't protest a Lommy lynch, either. I'll look over them again and vote in a few minutes.

EDIT: xed with Mith and Glirdy

[Mithalwen]

If it helps TP I can't really get beyond Lommy. I would be uneasy voting otherwise today.

[the phantom]

Another thing about our Dead-plan... The dead vote to do checks at Night, so, I assume that they'll begin with whichever person we lynch today? If so, that means they won't check Nog, right?

Is that okay, since we are guessing Cobbler?

[Mithalwen]

++Thinlomien

For reasons specified.

[satansaloser2005]

I much prefer the odds and evens idea. All hail the Grey Queen.


Also, I just read the Nog circus in full detail. I may die of how awesome that whole thing was....

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by phantom

Now about multi-lynches- what about today? It's very close between Lommy and Nessa. If they end up 1 vote apart they could very well be doubled. If they end up tied then almost certainly only one will be lynched (and who knows which?). How worried should we even be about a double? I mean, I'm thinking even if Nessa is up by two when I vote I'll still want to take a shot at Lommy seeing as I suspect her. It would be kind of pointless for me not to try and give her the possibility of being lynched if I just plan on trying again tomorrow, right?

Or is this a case where the loser should just swallow it and do what is possible to avoid the double? The later we get in the game the more pointless it seems trying to dodge doubles seeing as the liklihood of hitting a WW is higher at this stage. Yes?

I personally think a double toDay could be a very bad idea seeing as we're loosing Agan on top of whoever we lynch. If we do a double today, we risk loosing three innocents in one shot. I personally am very torn between both and don't know who to decide....I'm leaning more towards Nessa seeing as I have more reason to suspect her and I haven't looked closely at Lommy over the past couple of days. I'll give it a few more minutes before I vote.

PS:Vanilwamuffinface, I love you lots and if you need to talk to me, text me <3

[the phantom]

The Voting:

Nerwen ++ Nessa
Green ++ Lommy
Boro ++ Lommy (2)
Legate ++ Nessa (2)
Lommy ++ Nessa (3)
Sally ++ Nessa (4)
Nessa ++ Lommy (3)
Agan ++ Boro
ElDau ++ Lommy (4)
Mith ++ Lommy (5)

Can anyone guess who has the extra vote today? Agan or Shasta I assume?

[Loslote]

I'm definitely leaning more towards Nessa. There are a lot of points where Lommy strikes me as quite innocent, and none where Nessa does so. I'll wait and see if she's got enough more votes than Lommy, though - Glirdy makes a good point about no double lynches.

EDIT: xed with TP

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Another thing about our Dead-plan... The dead vote to do checks at Night, so, I assume that they'll begin with whichever person we lynch today? If so, that means they won't check Nog, right?

Is that okay, since we are guessing Cobbler?

With either Nessa or Lommy lynched today. Do you think it would be more beneficial to find out whether they're a wolf or not, or Nogrod?

Even if somehow he turns out to be a wolf, I don't know how much we learn from Nog's posts, since he was acting like a cobbler by randomly talking out of his rear end. (No offense Nog).

[Mithalwen]

Is shasta likely to vote now? If not bit of a waste .. not that it communicates so much today

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

With either Nessa or Lommy lynched today. Do you think it would be more beneficial to find out whether they're a wolf or not, or Nogrod?

I think we probably learn more from today's lynch. Or at least I think I would learn more.

[Glirdan]

Okay, I'm voting.

++Nessa

For my reasons stated in my Nessalysis, but to do a recap:

She's been very one line posts with no substance and very few thoughts of her own, mainly just tail-coating off everything that other people have said. I don't like it, and it's a tactic used to often by newbie wolves.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I think we probably learn more from today's lynch. Or at least I think I would learn more.

I agree. But I would feel much better if Agan or someone who will be in the dead thread would confirm who they're going to check.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I think we probably learn more from today's lynch. Or at least I think I would learn more.

Concur.

[Loslote]

So Nessa and Lommy are both tied at five. Who's left to vote?

EDIT: xed with Boro and Mith

[wilwarin538]

Even if this won't do much, if I don't vote I'll get modfired tomorrow (since I can't come on next Day). Just copying Agan...

++Boro

Again, really sorry! You have no idea.

[the phantom]

Well, it's definitely down to Nessa and Lommy, and now's the time to stick to the guns. We'll know soon enough what our bullet hit-

++ Lommy

If Nessa ends up lynched instead, then I guess it'll be another day of Lommy pushing tomorrow, heh heh.

[Mithalwen]

Since Agan won't be back and Shasta isn't around shall we tell them to use odd number placement on the day's living list for wolf and even for non-wolf for their double vote? Seems clearest and least vulnerable solution?

[Loslote]

Okay then:

++Nessa

because I prefer her as a candidate to Lommy.

EDIT: xed since my last - Are there retractions??

[Rikae]

The elves agreed that Nessa and Lommy were the most suspicious. The two were blindfolded, tied back to back, and dragged to the the fire. "Wait!" cried Beren. "I have a double vote, and I want to kill Boromir88!"
Everyone looked at him blankly for a moment, then turned back to the trussed-up Lommy and Nessa. "Perhaps we should put apples in their mouths?" a voice called from the back, but when the others looked around, everyone had the same expresson of shock and disgust. "Well, on with it, then..."
With that, Lommy and Nessa were shoved unceremoniously into the center of the fire. When their screams died down and the smell of burnt flesh began to dissipate, there was nothing particularly wolfish, cobblerish or innocentish about their charred skeletons (although Nog's voice could be heard on the wind, crying "cobblers are innocents!")
---------------------------------------------------------------------
And at last the night fell on the lost Elves of Ard-galen. The stars rose to greet the brave and guide them into gracious sleep. Beren and Lúthien laid down as well, knowing that they shall not wake where they drifted off. So there was some silent mourning among the Elves, to see Lúthien pass away once more. But all knew that she had done the part Eru had foreseen for her.

The living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
Loslote
wilwarin538
Legate of Amon Lanc
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel


The dead:

Macalaure
Rikae
Mänwe
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir
Shastanis Althreduin
Thinlómien
Nessa Telrunya

It is now Night 4. Do your thing.

[the phantom]

The Voting:

Nerwen ++ Nessa
Green ++ Lommy
Boro ++ Lommy (2)
Legate ++ Nessa (2)
Lommy ++ Nessa (3)
Sally ++ Nessa (4)
Nessa ++ Lommy (3)
Agan ++ Boro
ElDau ++ Lommy (4)
Mith ++ Lommy (5)
Glirdan ++ Nessa (5)
Wilwa ++ Boro (2)
TP ++ Lommy (6)
Lottie ++ Nessa (6)

(Guess it'll be determined by who has the extra vote.)

[Rikae]

When the elves awoke, they were surprised and relieved to find their numbers the same as when they had retired. Perhaps the evil had been vanquished, all the possessed sent to their deaths? Or maybe the spirits that had warped the minds and bodies of their companions had simply vanished, leaving their former hosts bewildered and riddled with guilt, but no longer wolves at all?
It could have been so, but the area of trampled grass near the place where many of them had slept suggested otherwise. The tracks crossed and tangled with one another, but some were like those of a wolf, and some were not. It appeared a battle had taken place while they had slept, too worn out from the horrors of the last three days to be awakened by the noise.



The living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
Loslote
wilwarin538
Legate of Amon Lanc
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel


The dead:

Macalaure
Rikae
Mänwe
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir
Shastanis Althreduin
Thinlómien
Nessa Telrunya

It is now Day 4.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, who gets the cookies?

....

....

Don't answer that out loud.



Anyway, excellent! Now, who's up for killing fAng?


ETA: I'm totally going to bed now. If the weather is awful, I won't be going to work and I'll make an epic post or two. If I can make it to work, I'll be quick bursts again, as I've actually had things to do. Behave while Mummy's resting her eyes, yes please?

[Glirdan]

This is a nice turn of events. It means that one of us has a known innocent under our belts....well, a known non-wolf anyways.

Oh, and just as a reminder from Ms. Wilwa that she will most likely not be around whatsoever toDay.

[Nerwen]

Nice work, Mr Glorfindel!

Now, I'm wondering– is it safe to assume that Shastanis Lúthien and Beranzir are going to use Mith's odd-even plan?

EDIT:X'd with Glirdan.

[Mithalwen]

Good choice Glorfy. But I am not going to try to stay awake now so back to zzzzz

[the phantom]

Well then- Glorfindel possibly has a play up his sleeve now- the identity of a non-Wolf. And since he can come back from the dead to prove his claim, that person will be a proven innocent.

Let's say he reveals both himself and his target. That person dies tonight, as that is the guaranteed kill (Glorfy can't protect him twice in a row). The following night the Wolves have to go after Glorfy and he protects himself (another foiled kill!), and then the next night they finally do kill him, but he simply returns again, only with double protections! The first night he will probably protect himself, as the Wolves will likely feel obligated to try and off him two night in a row, for it is too great a gamble for them to risk being foiled by yet another protection (in other words, he's likely to foil another kill after returning).

So, basically what we have is FOUR nights amounting to ONE kill (the Wolves selecting Glorfy all four nights in a row). Or at least that is the percentage play given the impossibility of the Wolves winning with Glorfy around at the end (they HAVE to kill him). Not to mention the Wolves will fear attempting to kill anyone besides Glorfy due to the fact that he may in a village this size foil them (especially once he has double protections) which would allow him to reveal to us yet ANOTHER proven innocent.

So we're sitting at a population of 12, and if we decide to limit to single lynches...
lynch: 11
kill last night's: 10
lynch: 9
fail kill Glorfy: 9
lynch: 8
kill Glorfy: 7
lynch (Glorfy back): 7
fail kill Glorfy: 7
lynch: 6
kill Glorfy: 5

I'd say that those protections stretch the game out nicely, yes? The question is, is such a tactic worth it, or would Glorfy be better served to try and stay hidden another day before revealing? If he takes that route, then his protection from last night certainly dies tonight if not lynched (he will no longer have that status protection), BUT he gains the advantage of existing with double protections in a smaller sized village later in the game, which is extremely powerful!

So, the question is, does anyone think it would be worth it for Glorfy to reveal IF it seems obvious that we are looking to lynch his protection from last night? Or should he just stay hidden no matter what? I'm of the opinion that we're unlikely to lynch his protection from last night, as that individual is likely to be a rather innocent looking sort.

UNLESS of course Glorfy protected HIMSELF last night, in which case I really think he ought to come out with it so we know not to lynch him and to trust him, because if he doesn't reveal the Wolves will simply kill him tonight anyway.

(x-post with all)
(edit numbers- forgot a night)

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, I'm wondering– is it safe to assume that Shastanis Lúthien and Beranzir are going to use Mith's odd-even plan?

I'm going to assume it.