Will Matrix 2 and 3 take much of the popualr wind out of the RotK's sails - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 04-21-2003, 09:39 PM

I do not mean in terms of number of people seeing it so much as, to the non reader of the book.Taking a peak at some of the previews and such of relaoded and revolutions, i can not help but wonder if Matrix 2 and 3 will be so incredible as to impact in a vague, culturaly cinematic sort of way , how the splendour and intesity of RoyK is likely to be experienced.I think the Harry Potter miovie did this to FotR, though personally I don't think as a movie it holds a candle to LotR, but that is just me.* lindil braces himself for a series of dissenting views saying the one will not have anything to do with the other...* - and I felt it was high time to ditch the avatar since the movies seemed to be starting to advertise quite nicely for themselves now -back to my tower crammed with old tomes of lore and saints writings... [ April 21, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

Diamond18 · 04-21-2003, 10:00 PM

Well, I'm very hyped about The Matrix movies, and I'm not having any mixed emotions or trepidations about them like I am with RotK. But it's not like I'm going to join a Matrix forum or anything... I've got a Matrix-fan friend and so far I'm content to powwow with him. And respond to this thread, of course. I'm probably not a good representitive of movie-goers at large, however. But my guess is that, with two movies in one year and all, 2003 is going to be remembered as "The Year of the Matrix" whether or not RotK wins the Oscar like they say it will.I miss the avatar. I used to have a screen saver like that, but it kept causing my computer to crash, so I ditched it.Edited due to utter idiocy.[ April 22, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Elrond Jr · 04-21-2003, 10:05 PM

That's a really good point. I think that you are right in that to non-readers of LOTR the Matrix will certainly take away from the "glory" or "splendour" or the Rotk. However I dont think that Harry Potter effected the FOTR. The first harry potter was awful (no offence to fans).

Beruthiel · 04-21-2003, 10:05 PM

Well I have to admit that I really can't wait for the Matrix sequels to come out. I guess the Matrix does appeal more to us younger ones, especially those who haven't read the book but I don't think it will completely blow ROTK out. I mean I asked my friend and he says the top movies he wants to see this year are ROTK and The Matrix, and almost all of my friends agree and they haven't read the books. by the way, I always liked that avatar

Olo Gamwich · 04-21-2003, 10:06 PM

You need not brace yourself, but I don't believe that The Matrix Reloaded or The Matrix Revolutions' outstanding special effects will in any way negatively impact movie-goers awe that is inspired by The Lord of the Rings movies. I, for one, have a different fascination in both. One is my love of fantasy, medieval action and a great story, while the other is my love of science fiction, futuristic action and, well...a great story. I don't think anybody should compare one great movie to another, because every well-made movie has a special meaning to somebody. As for the Oscars...well, they just supply the real competition.

The Only Real Estel · 04-22-2003, 02:04 PM

Of course people will love the Matrix 2 & 3! I know I will. But I think that the movie-goers will still appreciate RotK for what it is, and love that too. Once again, I know I will.

Meela · 04-22-2003, 02:16 PM

Yup. Fresh n' new vs. a constant 3 year 'in-yer-face'. I'm backing fresh an' new on this one.

Gorwingel · 04-22-2003, 06:08 PM

Well, I personally doubt I will go and see either of the Matrix films, but that is just because they are not my kind of movies. I have an interest in them just because they are going to be large, but I just don't like the story as much. I one time watched the first film on cable, partly, but I stopped watching it because it was very futuristic, dark, and kind of scary. Maybe I am just not educated about the story, but it kind of made me fear the future. Additionally ROTK will probably do better in the box office race just because it is PG-13 and The Matrix films are R rated (even though that doesn't really matter). But that means that more parents will probably be more willing to take their kids to ROTK rather than the Matrix, thus more people will go. Additionally I think ROTK will be more of an event, and I would still put my money on ROTK for best picture rather than the Matrix just because I think it has a better chance. I personally think I just over-analyzed these two films

HCIsland · 04-22-2003, 08:08 PM

I think the appeal of LoTR is far broader than the Matrix. While I'm sure younger movie fans may be divided between these two films (maybe even leaning to the Matrix) folks my age (40ish) tend to be far more interested in LoTR than the Matrix, if they are in to fantasy films at all. In fact, with a few notable exceptions, among my friends the Matrix isn't even registering. Personally, I don't much pay attention to box office hype. Very rarely are my favourite movies of the year the same ones that top the box office, LotR being the notable exceptions. For me movies are a very personal experience, the theatre could be empty for all I care (though I doubt film makers quite feel that way).H.C.

Olo Gamwich · 04-22-2003, 08:59 PM

I don't quite understand why so many people find The Matrix to be nothing more than mindless, futuristic action that only appeals to younger audiences with great special effects. The Matrix, just like The Lord of the Rings movies, has a great story behind it as well as lots of Biblical allusion. I like The Lord of the Rings movies more than The Matrix, but I don't think anybody should even attempt to compare them...they both rock.

Gorwingel · 04-22-2003, 11:55 PM

Oh I was never trying to compare them, they are both amazing sets of films with great stories, it is just personally The Matrix is not my cup of tea.

Carorëiel · 04-23-2003, 07:24 AM

I loved The Matrix, but I can't see myself going to see either of the next two movies more than once in the theater--especially as there are two of them. But I'm sure I'll go to RotK three or four times. The LotR fans I know all seem to be more gung-ho than the Matrix fans I know (ie, more likely to pay $8 bucks to see a film they've already seen twice). So, I wonder what sort of impact repeat-viewing will have on the whole Matrix/RotK question . . . .

HCIsland · 04-23-2003, 08:56 AM

I didn't mean to sound like I was slamming the Matrix either. I had a lot of fun watching it, but I really don't have the desire to watch it several times (in fact - Fellowship is the only DVD/VHS I own that I have watched more than just a few times in the last year and TTT is the only movie I have seen three times in the theatre in my life - PJ must be doing something right). I was just commenting on the fact that, for whatever reasons, LoTR has a much broader appeal than The Matrix.H.C.

hobbit punk · 04-23-2003, 03:07 PM

I'm stoked for both. Plus, I hear that Agent Smith is making a return so we get double the Hugo Weaving!

**lindil** · 04-24-2003, 05:53 PM

Personally, if PJ stays extremel;y close to the books in RotK I can see enjoying it more than the matrix movies, but for me matrix [so far] has this built in advantage, it is not a perversion or a reduction or a 're-vision' of anything.It is its own story, whereas with the PJ films I have to mentally reset my brain from LotR mode to 'sort of the rings ' mode. Not an easy or entirely pleasant experience. FotR extended is not too bad, the reg version and TTT are jolting at times.Also to me in terms of pure movie making Matrix is flawless, whereas LotR has many handicaps.All that said, I would not hesitate to take LotR [the books] to the desert island instead of matrix.So despite the movies being apples and oranges in one sense, Matrix I [and 2 and 3 look not to disappoint, if anything to be even better] is by far the better movie experience to me.I do truly hope I am proved wrong by RotK though.[ April 24, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

doug*platypus · 04-25-2003, 08:40 AM

Olo Gamwich, I herebey request that you change your avatar - that's some scary sh*t. Why is that thing looking at me? Sorry... I get paranoid this late at night.The funny thing is, I had forgotten that ROTK comes out this year!! Thanks for reminding me! Of course, Christmas is so far away, and so close to the end of the year, that it might as well be a-whole-nother year away.I think that a lot of Matrix fans may have been turned off by certain things in the last two LOTR movies. The first Matrix film was pretty much an eye-candy filled rollercoaster ride; it never really slowed down (or stalled) like PJs first two offerings do. It was a lot more modern and topical, and most of all new. Ironically, the legions of fantasy works that have copied Tolkien took away from the originality of the LOTR movies.The Harry Potter movies in my opinion (and in the opinion of certain experts in the industry) actually helped the LOTR movies, and vice-versa. Together they created an unstoppable media phenomenon. It was almost momentum that made me see the second HP (and I'm damn glad that I did). When something's as big as HP, LOTR or M (the Matrix) it's hard not to get swept along in the frenzy.I don't believe that movies compete with each other the way that, say fast food does. You might easily choose to eat Subway instead of McDonalds, but I don't think you need to see Harry Potter instead of LOTR, you could quite happily see them both. In my experience, people don't decide "Right, I'm going to see exactly 2 movies this year, so I'll choose LOTR over greasy old Potter." If two or more movies that are running at the same time greatly appeal to someone, I think they will usually try to find a way to see them both. There will be no competition for ROTK.

Everdawn · 04-28-2003, 01:07 AM

meh* Matrix is alright, ROTK IS BETTAH!Yeah i totally agree, Damn Potter took a bit of the gloss off FOTR, and i was annoyed at that. But i HOPE ROTK will be more of a crowd seller..

the real findorfin · 04-28-2003, 07:53 AM

There is no doubt in my mind that ROTK will be great and that because it is the last LOTR film, I will see it as many times in the cinema as I can.However, I also really like the idea of the Matrix and the religious undertone (for want of a better phrase). For me, as someone who loves the idea of gods in fantasy, that almost makes Matrix fantasy, even thou its Sci-fi (OMG, never thought Id mix them).I will definately see both, they will be great.

HCIsland · 04-28-2003, 08:07 AM

The line between fantasy and sci-fi is very blurry and everyone seems to put it in a different place. I wouldn't worry to much about labels.H.C.

Arwen Imladris · 04-28-2003, 02:20 PM

Well, I live in the middle of nowhere, so I only see like, 2 movies a year (in a theatre), and so far I have seen TTT once this year, that leaves me with two, and at least one of them has to be ROTK so... I might not get to the theatres to see Matrix. Oh well. Definitly looking more forward to ROTK. I think we can blame any lack of popularity of LOTR on just about anything. There will always be some movie that ROTK will have to compete with. Oh well.

Lady_Báin · 04-29-2003, 05:36 AM

Well I for one hope that matrix will take some of the hype from the out-of-control-lotr-train. i mean it is has gotten ridiculous, it has gotten so that going to a premiere is dangerous to ones health, and i mean that in all seriousness. This tsunami is filled with crazed and really dangerous people, hmmmm what was my point, yeah i hope that by the time x-men, and matrixes II and III come out people willl be all epic-movied out. And i can't wait for the aboved named movies.

The Only Real Estel · 04-29-2003, 06:42 PM

The Matrix does have a very in-depth story line. But it's nothing to make you afraid of the future! Agent Smith will be back (Elrond [Hugo Weaving]), so yep, double the Hugo ( I think maybe Hugo gave a little push to get Legolas to fly up onto the Gimli-ridden horse in the Warg attack ). The Matrix is an awesome movie, but I like FotR better ( I'm not so sure about TTT though...) . Still, both are awesome movies, and I think they both appeal to a very large audience.

Mattius · 05-04-2003, 03:31 PM

Well personally I don't think it really matters. As a movie fan 2003 is a great year for films. I just saw X2 (NightCrawler is the greatest ), Matrix 2 is comming as well as Terminator 3, Hulk, Matrix 3 and of course Return of the King. Of course RotK will be the last released so I suppose that may have an effect. I personally think it will be recived greatly especially after the dissapointment of The Two Towers.

HCIsland · 05-05-2003, 12:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I personally think it will be recived greatly especially after the dissapointment of The Two Towers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Two Towers outdrew Fellowship at the box office. I know many Tolkien fans were disappointed but judging from box office revenue, I doubt the film makers were disappointed.H.C.[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

Grimbold · 05-08-2003, 03:12 PM

The Two Towers was even better than The Fellowship of the Ring. You'd think that a sequel wouldn't have the same attraction as the first, but TTT pulled me into the struggles of the characters just as much if not even more than FOTR. And if you're going to discuss the appeal of The Matrix versus The Lord of the Rings, in my opinion there's no debate. Frankly, I think that although the Academy is subject to bribery and they rarely pick the winners completely objectively (who needs to be honoured over who really achieved the best result this year), the Best Picture nominations should speak for themselves, not to mention the other nominations. Look at the Matrix cast: it's decent, but not too diverse. I thought that LOTR's cast was much more diverse and interesting. If we're talking about butt-kicking value, LOTR is the best. Neo never really struggles. Keannu never displays extreme emotion when frightened. He's just shallow. I don't see him tested to the limit as his character. The ending of Matrix 1 is incredibly dumb. The slow-motion arm-smacking and the agent exploding and then Neo soaring into the air. What the heck. I actually get some emotion stirred in me with LOTR, but not in the Matrix. The Matrix is a fad type thing. It has no history. LOTR has a huge following with history and diversity. Wow, that rant totally slammed the Matrix and was probably pretty stupid in places. Sorry about that, but it was fun. Hahaha!

Mattius · 05-13-2003, 08:06 AM

Forgive me If I'm overstepping the topic here a bit but I just thought that TTT was plain and bland next The Fellowship. It seemed too polished and the mistakes from the book just made it even worse.

Orome · 05-13-2003, 06:40 PM

This is an interesting little debate that is going on here. First off I need to say that I agree with lindil on the issue. Because I have read the books, I think that the Matrix is a better movie. This is, however, a biased view, beacuse i am letting my thoughts on the LOTR affect the coice. ROTK is more epic than the Matrix, but it think that the Matrix 2 and 3 will appeal to a broader section of the country. I think that probably the RoTK has an advantage in the run for the oscars, because the people wanting to choose the Matrix as the top movie wont know which movie to pick, two or three. This will split the vote, which will most likely be close, giving RoTK the win.

The Only Real Estel · 05-13-2003, 07:55 PM

Yeah, I'd say that The Matrix is a better movie than TTT, but that's only because of how patriotic I am when it comes to sticking with the books. I still think Fotr is better than The Matrix though.

Lady_Báin · 05-15-2003, 05:02 AM

HCIsland i am all most completely sure that mattius is referring to the general disapointment of ttt, not how much of a splash it made at the box office. At this point in the trilogy i think we can say that PJ is telling a whole different story, now don't get me wrong, it's a good story, but the movies should be called Peter Jacksons Lord of the Rings or something like that. nú ætla ég að halda mér saman.

Beruthiel · 05-15-2003, 05:29 AM

Oh my gosh, I am SO excited! The Matrix comes out TOMORROW!! How cool is that!!!Okay back to the topic, I think that there are different well phases of movies. Like last december all anyone could talk about was TTT. Everyone was obsessed with it and now its the Matrix phase and I have to admit, I am definitely going a little crazy about the Matrix right now.I don't think ROTK has anything to fear, those hardcore Matrix fans were probably thinking the same thing about how would TTT affect Matrix reloaded but it hasn't. People can love both movies and be excited about both of them. It won't necesarily effect the other that much.

HCIsland · 05-15-2003, 12:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> HCIsland i am all most completely sure that mattius is referring to the general disapointment of ttt, not how much of a splash it made at the box office. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I know what he meant but "general disappointment" implies beyond boards like this one, and I simply don't see that. It was a box office smash and got nominated for a best picture Oscar. How can the film be called a general disappointment.Back on topic though, I read <A HREF="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&c id=1052910901141" TARGET=_blank>a review of The Matrix-Reloaded</A> today. Obviously it's too early to tell but I sure hope this isn't an example where they were better off without a sequel.H.C.

Lindril Arvilya · 05-17-2003, 11:28 AM

I've had the chance to talk to a few people about The Matrix Reloaded. Most of these people were really hyped about it, too. They all agree that the special effects are incredible. Hoever, they also all had to agree that there was no plot. (Note: I have not yet seen it. Will go tomorrow.) I enjoyed The Matrix, and am, in fact, using it for a philosophy seminar. I think it has important things to say: about God, free will, and various other important things. However, in the new one, apparently (I'll change this tomorrow if I turn out to be wrong) Neo simply flies out of trouble. Agent shows up? He runs. Or actually flies. I appreciate the effort put into the special effects. But there must be more than that. And that's where RotK will always win out.

Niluial · 05-17-2003, 11:36 AM

Well…. I think everyone has said what I wanted to say! Oh well I am not a great Matrix fan. My boyfriend and I sat down and watched The Matrix and I *Ahem* fell asleep *sinks deep into chair*… I am sure it was a good movie but…

Helkahothion · 05-17-2003, 12:09 PM

I think that Matrix will not do this. Everybody that did not read the books and saw TTT did this because they saw Lotr. So that ment they loved it since the number of viewers of TTT was enourmus. And the book sellings increased. I think that people that saw TTT will most certainly go see ROTK. You don't just go and watch two parts without seeing the end. The number that was set with TTT will only grow. Not fall back. Well, I'm off, I'm going to see the Matrix reloaded hehehee.

Morquesse · 05-17-2003, 03:48 PM

Highlight to see. Contains spoilers for those who have not seen it yet. You are partly right about the Matrix Reloaded Lindril Arvilya. If Neo gets in trouble, we have a very long and drawn-out fight scenes. Then he flies away. I must say that it did have a lot of fighting and action and not a whole lot of plot, and it was dirtier than the first. I admit that since it IS rated R they can do that, but that was a nasty surprise. But there was some good things: we got to see Neo and Morpheus fight with Sais and a Japanese sword. Eye-candy for me. And there was some funny parts. So yeah, lack of plot and R rated, I don't think RotK will have much of a problem. See you later! ~M[ May 17, 2003: Message edited by: Morquesse ]

Manwe Sulimo · 05-19-2003, 08:54 PM

I think that up until the end of Reloaded there was acually negative plot development, not to mention a bunch of characters with no reason of being or even explanations of who they were. ("Obsolete programs"...??) Reloaded has made me all the more eager for RotK, and I don't think that Revolutions is going to change that. (I mean, the CG Neo/Smith models were crappy as hell! Uruk-hai win by comparison, 100-1).

dunadan_aragorn · 05-20-2003, 11:40 AM

Quoth the Raven Rotk is probably going to be better than the X movies combined, I have faith in that. Nevermore

05-20-2003, 02:24 PM

dunadan_aragorn:You double posted and seem to have a standard form of post formating. The Barrow Downs has a bandtwith problem. Please remove one of the posts since, repeating is not nesecary.

Lossentilien · 05-20-2003, 02:29 PM

And why is it that you alway say 'quoth the raven' etc?Anyway, on topic. I don't really think that The Matrix will affect LOTR too much. I know quite a few people - mainly girls, might I add - who don't really find The Matrix very appealing. Whereas LOTR has a very strong following, not to mention all the others who will simply want to see what happens at the end. LOTR isn't exactly a sequal type thing, but The Matrix is. You can watch the first one and just stop there, but with LOTR there are cliffhangers at the end of the movies, making it a continuous story.

Aule · 05-21-2003, 06:17 AM

Basicly nothing can take away from the RotK, not even Matrix2. The LotR series of films are just way too big to be affected by anything at all

04-21-2003, 09:39 PM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,681	Will Matrix 2 and 3 take much of the popualr wind out of the RotK's sails I do not mean in terms of number of people seeing it so much as, to the non reader of the book.<P>Taking a peak at some of the previews and such of relaoded and revolutions, i can not help but wonder if Matrix 2 and 3 will be so incredible as to impact in a vague, culturaly cinematic sort of way , how the splendour and intesity of RoyK is likely to be experienced.<P>I think the Harry Potter miovie did this to FotR, though personally I don't think as a movie it holds a candle to LotR, but that is just me.<P>* lindil braces himself for a series of dissenting views saying the one will not have anything to do with the other...*<P> - and I felt it was high time to ditch the avatar since the movies seemed to be starting to advertise quite nicely for themselves now -<P>back to my tower crammed with old tomes of lore and saints writings... <p>[ April 21, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

04-21-2003, 10:00 PM	#2
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Well, I'm very hyped about The Matrix movies, and I'm not having any mixed emotions or trepidations about them like I am with RotK. But it's not like I'm going to join a Matrix forum or anything... I've got a Matrix-fan friend and so far I'm content to powwow with him. And respond to this thread, of course. <P>I'm probably not a good representitive of movie-goers at large, however. But my guess is that, with two movies in one year and all, 2003 is going to be remembered as "The Year of the Matrix" whether or not RotK wins the Oscar like they say it will.<P>I miss the avatar. I used to have a screen saver like that, but it kept causing my computer to crash, so I ditched it.<P>Edited due to utter idiocy.<p>[ April 22, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

04-21-2003, 10:05 PM	#3
Elrond Jr Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 25	That's a really good point. I think that you are right in that to non-readers of LOTR the Matrix will certainly take away from the "glory" or "splendour" or the Rotk. However I dont think that Harry Potter effected the FOTR. The first harry potter was awful (no offence to fans). __________________ If winners never quit, and quitters never win. How did they get the phrase, "Quit while you're ahead"? Rate me, plz!

04-21-2003, 10:05 PM	#4
Beruthiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Set adrift on the Great Sea Posts: 386	Well I have to admit that I really can't wait for the Matrix sequels to come out.<BR>I guess the Matrix does appeal more to us younger ones, especially those who haven't read the book but I don't think it will completely blow ROTK out. I mean I asked my friend and he says the top movies he wants to see this year are ROTK and The Matrix, and almost all of my friends agree and they haven't read the books.<BR>by the way, I always liked that avatar __________________ ~I am not young enough to know everything~ Oscar Wilde

04-21-2003, 10:06 PM	#5
Olo Gamwich Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 36	You need not brace yourself, but I don't believe that <I>The Matrix Reloaded</I> or <I>The Matrix Revolutions'</I> outstanding special effects will in any way negatively impact movie-goers awe that is inspired by <I>The Lord of the Rings</I> movies. I, for one, have a different fascination in both. One is my love of fantasy, medieval action and a great story, while the other is my love of science fiction, futuristic action and, well...a great story. I don't think anybody should compare one great movie to another, because every well-made movie has a special meaning to somebody. As for the Oscars...well, they just supply the real competition. __________________ Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.

04-22-2003, 02:04 PM	#6
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	Of course people will love the Matrix 2 & 3! I know I will. But I think that the movie-goers will still appreciate RotK for what it is, and love that too. Once again, I know I will.

04-22-2003, 02:16 PM	#7
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,118	Yup. Fresh n' new vs. a constant 3 year 'in-yer-face'. I'm backing fresh an' new on this one. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

04-22-2003, 06:08 PM	#8
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,436	Well, I personally doubt I will go and see either of the Matrix films, but that is just because they are not my kind of movies. I have an interest in them just because they are going to be large, but I just don't like the story as much. I one time watched the first film on cable, partly, but I stopped watching it because it was very futuristic, dark, and kind of scary. Maybe I am just not educated about the story, but it kind of made me fear the future. <BR>Additionally ROTK will probably do better in the box office race just because it is PG-13 and The Matrix films are R rated (even though that doesn't really matter). But that means that more parents will probably be more willing to take their kids to ROTK rather than the Matrix, thus more people will go. Additionally I think ROTK will be more of an event, and I would still put my money on ROTK for best picture rather than the Matrix just because I think it has a better chance.<BR>I personally think I just over-analyzed these two films __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

04-22-2003, 08:08 PM	#9
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I think the appeal of LoTR is far broader than the Matrix. While I'm sure younger movie fans may be divided between these two films (maybe even leaning to the Matrix) folks my age (40ish) tend to be far more interested in LoTR than the Matrix, if they are in to fantasy films at all. In fact, with a few notable exceptions, among my friends the Matrix isn't even registering. <P>Personally, I don't much pay attention to box office hype. Very rarely are my favourite movies of the year the same ones that top the box office, LotR being the notable exceptions. For me movies are a very personal experience, the theatre could be empty for all I care (though I doubt film makers quite feel that way).<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

04-22-2003, 08:59 PM	#10
Olo Gamwich Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 36	I don't quite understand why so many people find <I>The Matrix</I> to be nothing more than mindless, futuristic action that only appeals to younger audiences with great special effects. <I>The Matrix</I>, just like <I>The Lord of the Rings</I> movies, has a great story behind it as well as lots of Biblical allusion. I like <I>The Lord of the Rings</I> movies more than <I>The Matrix</I>, but I don't think anybody should even attempt to compare them...they both rock. __________________ Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.

04-22-2003, 11:55 PM	#11
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,436	Oh I was never trying to compare them, they are both amazing sets of films with great stories, it is just personally The Matrix is not my cup of tea. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

04-23-2003, 07:24 AM	#12
Carorëiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Tennessee Posts: 54	I loved The Matrix, but I can't see myself going to see either of the next two movies more than once in the theater--especially as there are two of them. But I'm sure I'll go to RotK three or four times. The LotR fans I know all seem to be more gung-ho than the Matrix fans I know (ie, more likely to pay $8 bucks to see a film they've already seen twice). So, I wonder what sort of impact repeat-viewing will have on the whole Matrix/RotK question . . . . __________________ "Art is our way of keeping track of what we know and have known, secretly, from the beginning."--John Gardner

04-23-2003, 08:56 AM	#13
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I didn't mean to sound like I was slamming the Matrix either. I had a lot of fun watching it, but I really don't have the desire to watch it several times (in fact - Fellowship is the only DVD/VHS I own that I have watched more than just a few times in the last year and TTT is the only movie I have seen three times in the theatre in my life - PJ must be doing something right). I was just commenting on the fact that, for whatever reasons, LoTR has a much broader appeal than The Matrix.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

04-23-2003, 03:07 PM	#14
hobbit punk Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 86	I'm stoked for both. Plus, I hear that Agent Smith is making a return so we get double the Hugo Weaving! __________________ "The alphabet does not go "A B C D What? When? How? but it does go "V W X Why? Z." -Douglas Adams

04-24-2003, 05:53 PM	#15
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,681	Personally, <I>if</I> PJ stays extremel;y close to the books in RotK I can see enjoying it more than the matrix movies, but for me matrix [so far] has this built in advantage, it is not a perversion or a reduction or a 're-vision' of anything.<P>It is its own story, whereas with the PJ films I have to mentally reset my brain from LotR mode to 'sort of the rings ' mode. Not an easy or entirely pleasant experience. FotR extended is not too bad, the reg version and TTT are jolting at times.<P>Also to me in terms of pure movie making Matrix is flawless, whereas LotR has many handicaps.<P>All that said, I would not hesitate to take LotR [the books] to the desert island instead of matrix.<P>So despite the movies being apples and oranges in one sense, Matrix I [and 2 and 3 look not to disappoint, if anything to be even better] is by far the better movie experience to me.<P>I do truly hope I am proved wrong by RotK though.<p>[ April 24, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

04-25-2003, 08:40 AM	#16
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 963	Olo Gamwich, I herebey request that you change your avatar - that's some scary sht. Why is that thing looking at me? Sorry... I get paranoid this late at night.<P>The funny thing is, I had forgotten that ROTK comes out this year!! Thanks for reminding me! Of course, Christmas is so far away, and so close to the end of the year, that it might as well be a-whole-nother year away.<P>I think that a lot of Matrix fans may have been turned off by certain things in the last two LOTR movies. The first Matrix film was pretty much an eye-candy filled rollercoaster ride; it never really slowed down (or stalled) like PJs first two offerings do. It was a lot more modern and topical, and most of all new. Ironically, the legions of fantasy works that have copied Tolkien took away from the originality of the LOTR movies.<P>The Harry Potter movies in my opinion (and in the opinion of certain experts in the industry) actually helped the LOTR movies, and vice-versa. Together they created an unstoppable media phenomenon. It was almost momentum that made me see the second HP (and I'm damn glad that I did). When something's as big as HP, LOTR or M (the Matrix) it's hard not to get swept along in the frenzy.<P>I don't believe that movies compete with each other the way that, say fast food does. You might easily choose to eat Subway instead of McDonalds, but I don't think you need to see Harry Potter instead of LOTR, you could quite happily see them both. In my experience, people don't decide "Right, I'm going to see exactly 2 movies this year, so I'll choose LOTR over greasy old Potter." If two or more movies that are running at the same time greatly appeal to someone, I think they will usually try to find a way to see them both. There will be no competition for ROTK. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.*

04-28-2003, 01:07 AM	#17
Everdawn Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the sand dunes outside of Ilium, watching it burn. Posts: 1,291	meh* Matrix is alright, ROTK IS BETTAH!<P>Yeah i totally agree, Damn Potter took a bit of the gloss off FOTR, and i was annoyed at that. But i HOPE ROTK will be more of a crowd seller.. __________________ "Athena, stepping up behind him, visible to no one but Achillies, gripped his red-gold hair. Startled he made a half turn, and he knew her upon the instant for Athena." ~The Iliad~ ~My lord, Éomer~

04-28-2003, 07:53 AM	#18
the real findorfin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 514	There is no doubt in my mind that ROTK will be great and that because it is the last LOTR film, I will see it as many times in the cinema as I can.<P>However, I also really like the idea of the Matrix and the religious undertone (for want of a better phrase). For me, as someone who loves the idea of gods in fantasy, that almost makes Matrix fantasy, even thou its Sci-fi (OMG, never thought Id mix them).<P>I will definately see both, they will be great. __________________ Legends of Middle Earth

04-28-2003, 08:07 AM	#19
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	The line between fantasy and sci-fi is very blurry and everyone seems to put it in a different place. I wouldn't worry to much about labels.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

04-28-2003, 02:20 PM	#20
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Well, I live in the middle of nowhere, so I only see like, 2 movies a year (in a theatre), and so far I have seen TTT once this year, that leaves me with two, and at least one of them has to be ROTK so... I might not get to the theatres to see Matrix. Oh well. Definitly looking more forward to ROTK. <P>I think we can blame any lack of popularity of LOTR on just about anything. There will always be some movie that ROTK will have to compete with. Oh well. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

04-29-2003, 05:36 AM	#21
Lady_Báin Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Peterborough, England Posts: 250	Well I for one hope that matrix will take some of the hype from the out-of-control-lotr-train. i mean it is has gotten ridiculous, it has gotten so that going to a premiere is dangerous to ones health, and i mean that in all seriousness. This tsunami is filled with crazed and really dangerous people, hmmmm what was my point, yeah i hope that by the time x-men, and matrixes II and III come out people willl be all epic-movied out. <BR>And i can't wait for the aboved named movies. __________________ pæling.

04-29-2003, 06:42 PM	#22
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	The Matrix does have a very in-depth story line. But it's nothing to make you afraid of the future! Agent Smith will be back (Elrond [Hugo Weaving]), so yep, double the Hugo ( I think maybe Hugo gave a little push to get Legolas to fly up onto the Gimli-ridden horse in the Warg attack ). The Matrix is an awesome movie, but I like FotR better ( I'm not so sure about TTT though...)<BR>. Still, both are awesome movies, and I think they both appeal to a very large audience.

05-04-2003, 03:31 PM	#23
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 693	Well personally I don't think it really matters. As a movie fan 2003 is a great year for films. I just saw X2 (NightCrawler is the greatest ), Matrix 2 is comming as well as Terminator 3, Hulk, Matrix 3 and of course Return of the King. Of course RotK will be the last released so I suppose that may have an effect. I personally think it will be recived greatly especially after the dissapointment of The Two Towers. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

05-05-2003, 12:21 PM	#24
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I personally think it will be recived greatly especially after the dissapointment of The Two Towers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Two Towers outdrew Fellowship at the box office. I know many Tolkien fans were disappointed but judging from box office revenue, I doubt the film makers were disappointed.<P>H.C.<p>[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ] __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

05-08-2003, 03:12 PM	#25
Grimbold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenor Posts: 88	The Two Towers was even better than The Fellowship of the Ring. You'd think that a sequel wouldn't have the same attraction as the first, but TTT pulled me into the struggles of the characters just as much if not even more than FOTR. <BR>And if you're going to discuss the appeal of The Matrix versus The Lord of the Rings, in my opinion there's no debate. Frankly, I think that although the Academy is subject to bribery and they rarely pick the winners completely objectively (who needs to be honoured over who really achieved the best result this year), the Best Picture nominations should speak for themselves, not to mention the other nominations. <BR>Look at the Matrix cast: it's decent, but not too diverse. I thought that LOTR's cast was much more diverse and interesting. If we're talking about butt-kicking value, LOTR is the best. Neo never really struggles. Keannu never displays extreme emotion when frightened. He's just shallow. I don't see him tested to the limit as his character.<BR>The ending of Matrix 1 is incredibly dumb. The slow-motion arm-smacking and the agent exploding and then Neo soaring into the air. What the heck. <BR>I actually get some emotion stirred in me with LOTR, but not in the Matrix. The Matrix is a fad type thing. It has no history. LOTR has a huge following with history and diversity.<BR>Wow, that rant totally slammed the Matrix and was probably pretty stupid in places. Sorry about that, but it was fun. Hahaha! __________________ Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountains. Like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the west. Behind the hills, into shadow. How did it come to this?

05-13-2003, 08:06 AM	#26
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 693	Forgive me If I'm overstepping the topic here a bit but I just thought that TTT was plain and bland next The Fellowship. It seemed too polished and the mistakes from the book just made it even worse. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

05-13-2003, 06:40 PM	#27
Orome Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 195	This is an interesting little debate that is going on here. First off I need to say that I agree with lindil on the issue. Because I have read the books, I think that the Matrix is a better movie. This is, however, a biased view, beacuse i am letting my thoughts on the LOTR affect the coice. ROTK is more epic than the Matrix, but it think that the Matrix 2 and 3 will appeal to a broader section of the country.<P> I think that probably the RoTK has an advantage in the run for the oscars, because the people wanting to choose the Matrix as the top movie wont know which movie to pick, two or three. This will split the vote, which will most likely be close, giving RoTK the win.

05-13-2003, 07:55 PM	#28
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	Yeah, I'd say that The Matrix is a better movie than TTT, but that's only because of how patriotic I am when it comes to sticking with the books. I still think Fotr is better than The Matrix though.

05-15-2003, 05:02 AM	#29
Lady_Báin Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Peterborough, England Posts: 250	HCIsland i am all most completely sure that mattius is referring to the general disapointment of ttt, not how much of a splash it made at the box office. At this point in the trilogy i think we can say that PJ is telling a whole different story, now don't get me wrong, it's a good story, but the movies should be called <I>Peter Jacksons Lord of the Rings</I> or something like that. nú ætla ég að halda mér saman. __________________ pæling.

05-15-2003, 05:29 AM	#30
Beruthiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Set adrift on the Great Sea Posts: 386	Oh my gosh, I am SO excited! The Matrix comes out TOMORROW!! How cool is that!!!<P>Okay back to the topic, I think that there are different well phases of movies. Like last december all anyone could talk about was TTT. Everyone was obsessed with it and now its the Matrix phase and I have to admit, I am definitely going a little crazy about the Matrix right now.<P>I don't think ROTK has anything to fear, those hardcore Matrix fans were probably thinking the same thing about how would TTT affect Matrix reloaded but it hasn't. People can love both movies and be excited about both of them. It won't necesarily effect the other that much. __________________ ~I am not young enough to know everything~ Oscar Wilde

05-15-2003, 12:23 PM	#31
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> HCIsland i am all most completely sure that mattius is referring to the general disapointment of ttt, not how much of a splash it made at the box office. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know what he meant but "general disappointment" implies beyond boards like this one, and I simply don't see that. It was a box office smash and got nominated for a best picture Oscar. How can the film be called a general disappointment.<P>Back on topic though, I read <A HREF="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&c id=1052910901141" TARGET=_blank>a review of The Matrix-Reloaded</A> today. Obviously it's too early to tell but I sure hope this isn't an example where they were better off without a sequel.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

05-17-2003, 11:28 AM	#32
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 336	I've had the chance to talk to a few people about The Matrix Reloaded. Most of these people were really hyped about it, too. They all agree that the special effects are incredible. Hoever, they also all had to agree that there was no plot. (Note: I have not yet seen it. Will go tomorrow.) I enjoyed The Matrix, and am, in fact, using it for a philosophy seminar. I think it has important things to say: about God, free will, and various other important things. <BR>However, in the new one, apparently (I'll change this tomorrow if I turn out to be wrong) Neo simply flies out of trouble. Agent shows up? He runs. Or actually flies.<BR>I appreciate the effort put into the special effects. But there must be more than that. And that's where RotK will always win out. __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

05-17-2003, 11:36 AM	#33
Niluial Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the darkness of white Posts: 631	Well…. I think everyone has said what I wanted to say! Oh well I am not a great Matrix fan. My boyfriend and I sat down and watched The Matrix and I Ahem fell asleep sinks deep into chair… I am sure it was a good movie but… __________________ Life is not about how many breaths you take but about how many times it leaves you breathless. My rants, moans and groans in other words my Blog My Magical Site

05-17-2003, 12:09 PM	#34
Helkahothion Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The inside of Legolas' lungs Posts: 1,100	I think that Matrix will not do this. Everybody that did not read the books and saw TTT did this because they saw Lotr. So that ment they loved it since the number of viewers of TTT was enourmus. And the book sellings increased. I think that people that saw TTT will most certainly go see ROTK. You don't just go and watch two parts without seeing the end. The number that was set with TTT will only grow. Not fall back. Well, I'm off, I'm going to see the Matrix reloaded hehehee.

05-17-2003, 03:48 PM	#35
Morquesse Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Past the fields we know.... Posts: 202	Highlight to see. Contains spoilers for those who have not seen it yet.<BR>You are partly right about the Matrix Reloaded Lindril Arvilya. If Neo gets in trouble, we have a very long and drawn-out fight scenes. Then he flies away. <BR>I must say that it did have a lot of fighting and action and not a whole lot of plot, and it was dirtier than the first. I admit that since it IS rated R they can do that, but that was a nasty surprise.<BR>But there was some good things: we got to see Neo and Morpheus fight with Sais and a Japanese sword. Eye-candy for me. And there was some funny parts.<BR>So yeah, lack of plot and R rated, I don't think RotK will have much of a problem.<BR><BR>See you later!<BR>~M<p>[ May 17, 2003: Message edited by: Morquesse ] __________________ I'm not ashamed to let you know I want this light in me to show. I'm not ashamed to speak the name of Jesus Christ.~Newsboys