WWJ XII: "Oh the tangled web we weave..." - Page 4 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 06:10 AM

Sorry I didn't vote YesterDay. I got home and had no power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac

Jenny can be considered an easy target as well. Her foremothers always tended to get a little bit nervous when under suspicion.

Hunh. Have they?

Noggie is beginning to seriously worry me, but at the same time I remember that I am often at odds with Noggie. But really, I express suspicion of him and he accuses me of trying to "machinate" his death? If I had died last night, the same could have been said of him. I am also sure that not all those who voted for Lommy were trying to "machinate" the death of an innocent. *sigh* I can't stand inflammatory statements like that. Unfortunately, an innocent lynch very rarely means we can reliably point to one person as evil.

Now, as for voting records yesterday:

Quote:

Lommy -> Rikae (Rikae1)
Gil -> Rune (Rikae1, Rune1)
Volo -> Mac (Rikae1, Rune1, Mac1)
Volo -> - Mac / + Nogrod (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1)
Glirdy ->Briseis (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1, Briseis1)
Mac -> Lommy (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1, Briseis1, Lommy1)
Nogrod -> Jenny (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1, Briseis1, Lommy1, Jenny1)
Briseis -> Glirdy (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1, Briseis1, Lommy1, Glirdy1, Jenny1)
Kitanna -> Mac (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1, Briseis1, Lommy1, Glirdy1, Mac1, Jenny1)
Menel -> Lommy (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1, Briseis1, Lommy2, Glirdy1, Mac1, Jenny1)
Rikae -> Mac (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod1, Briseis1, Lommy2, Glirdy1, Mac2, Jenny1)
Rune -> Nogrod (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod2, Briseis1, Lommy2, Glirdy1, Mac2, Jenny1)
Naria -> Lommy (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod2, Briseis1, Lommy3, Glirdy1, Mac2, Jenny1)
Rikae -> - Mac / + Lommy (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod2, Briseis1, Lommy4, Glirdy1, Mac1, Jenny1)
Folwren -> Lommy
Eonwe -> Naria (Rikae1, Rune1, Nogrod2, Briseis1, Lommy5, Glirdy1, Mac1, Jenny1, Eonwe1)

I'll be back in a bit with some thoughts.

EDIT: X'ed with Eonwe and Volo

Macalaure · 10-12-2006, 06:17 AM

I just reread Folwren's posts. Here are my findings:

#42
Defends Rikae
Doesn't like Lommy's vote, accuses her
Defends me
Tells us that Glirdan, Gil, Rune and Volo have not contributed much. (hmmm...)

#49
Says: "Oh!! I think you're right! Ingenious, Nogrod!" about Nogrod's ranger confusion (I know I'm doing now what I just criticised, but this line is just too funny

)
Defends Rikae from Kitanna
Talks with Rune about tactics the way a thing would

#56
Complains about silence of Naria, Briseis, Eonwe, Glirdan (I no longer think this is just coincidence)
Compliments Nogrod

#71
Answers Jenny about Nogrod telling Volo to retract, thinks Nogrod thought me innocent

#79
Tells she'll be away for some time
Tries to get people discuss about deadline
Restates suspicion on Lommy

#96
Defends me from Kitanna, slightly suspiciuos of her
Tells us Nogrod is right, again

#103
More suspicion on Kitanna, puts time pressure on her

#107
After deadline is cleared, keeps up the time pressure

#109
Eases grip on Kitanna to justify vote for Lommy
Doesn't vote safe

Folwren deepens my belief that the things are trying to make us lynch "weaker" villagers.
She clings closely to Nogrod.
If Nogrod's a thing, Folwren's vote would fit perfectly into the picture.
The way she accuses her eases my own suspicion about Kitanna.
She defended Rikae the way she defended me. This makes me feel good about Rikae.

Since I'm now fairly convinced of Nogrod's guilt, I hoped I would be able to read some hint towards the third (now second) thing from Folwren's post. I failed.

Kitanna · 10-12-2006, 06:23 AM

What I have here is what was written before the start of today. Unfortunately my classes are against me timewise and it will be a while until I can look into the death fo Folwren.

After the events of yesterday I went through the thread to look at Nogrod, Jenny, and Volo, to elaborate on my suspicions of them due to their disputes yesterday. Honestly it all seemed slightly more important last night when I was reading through. I still plan on commenting on it, but I’d like to see what this day brings before completely elaborating on it.
Though I will say, and I believe I echo Jenny here, it was interesting for Nogrod to prompt Volo into changing his vote from Mac to Nogrod. He told Volo to remember his retractable vote and to “think about it”. I can’t decide exactly what that means. Trying to lead votes away from Mac or help give Volo an air of suspicion for other voters. I will return to them later.

The important issue in my mind, however, is the voters for Lommy. Mac voted first and well before day ended. Looking at his other top suspects he didn’t seem too convinced of any them. He was the fourth person to vote and (not counting Volo’s retracted vote) and of those voted for; none had received more than one vote.
Menel voted for Lommy next, though he also suspected Jenny (as stated in his post before his vote) though he also mentioned Mac as being a Thing. I saw little against Lommy in his earlier posts, mostly mentioned the fact she voted for Rikae though she didn’t find her overly suspicious. It looked as though Jenny and Mac were higher on Menel’s lists, but he voted for Lommy. It’s possible to say he picked the one suspect that had garnered one vote and would help in stopping any chaos over single votes throughout the village which is an innocent move and a guilty move rolled into one. If that makes sense. An innocent villager would do that and could help by not adding another single vote to someone when they have suspicions of someone already voted for. But that logic is easily applied to a Thing trying to hide within a bandwagon.
Naria voted for Lommy next. Claims Lommy is acting very unLommyish and doesn’t believe the excuse given for Lommy’s early vote and absence.
Rikae then decides Mac isn’t so Thingish and changes her vote to her other top suspect.
Folwren/Jack voted for Lommy after spending a good deal of the day suspecting her.
So unless I missed a vote for Lommy hiding away those five are the voters of Lommy. I have my suspicions of Mac from yesterday, but due to the voting patterns of yesterday I’m moving him down and bumping the other four Lommy voters up.
Menel tops the list. He was the second voter and pushed Lommy into the lead. Looking at his last three or four posts I’d say his most likely vote choice would have been Jenny or Mac. He never commented on what pushed Lommy ahead in his mind and I hope he does today.
Naria is the next on the list. She voted when Nogrod and Lommy had two votes each, but her vote for Lommy pushed Lommy back into the lead. That makes me wonder about a possible relationship between Naria and Nogrod.
Rikae voted for Lommy last and changed her vote from Mac. Normally this would set alarms off in my brain, but Rikae suspected Mac and Lommy much of the day. That fact makes me think she gave some real thought to who she should vote for and who was the most suspicious.
I feel Rikae and Folwren/Jack fall into the same category. Both suspected Lommy much of the day and they both voted when Lommy was already ahead in the votes. Because of that I find them far less suspicious than Naria and Menel.

I'll be back in a few hours with comments on Folwren's death and the events of the day thus far.

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 06:37 AM

Actually, Folwren's close association with Nogrod makes me feel less suspicious of him. The things are likely to play very aggressively, since they're only promised one day to wreak havoc, but I think they will go to even greater lengths than usual to avoid associations like that. With one of them dying every night, it will be important for them not to leave clues to their surviving counterparts.

Therefore, I am interested in looking at those Folwren blew off as unsubstantial or quiet posters, and even more especially at those she didn't mention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Menel voted for Lommy next, though he also suspected Jenny (as stated in his post before his vote) though he also mentioned Mac as being a Thing. I saw little against Lommy in his earlier posts, mostly mentioned the fact she voted for Rikae though she didn’t find her overly suspicious. It looked as though Jenny and Mac were higher on Menel’s lists, but he voted for Lommy. It’s possible to say he picked the one suspect that had garnered one vote and would help in stopping any chaos over single votes throughout the village which is an innocent move and a guilty move rolled into one. If that makes sense. An innocent villager would do that and could help by not adding another single vote to someone when they have suspicions of someone already voted for. But that logic is easily applied to a Thing trying to hide within a bandwagon.

I agree with you on Menel, but we haven't really heard much from him. I have said in previous games that I seriously suspect the second voter in any bandwaggon (even one that kills a wolf). It's the safest place to hide a vote, and is almost never decisive.

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 06:52 AM

Only person not mentioned by Folwren is Menel. Don't know if that's significant or not. Likely not.

BUT I no longer agree that he voted for Lommy out of nowhere. A further look at his posts shows that he was suspicious of her all day, and she topped his list all day. In fact, he's quite clear about that, Kitanna.

Macalaure · 10-12-2006, 07:19 AM

Coming back to the ranger issue:

I still think Nogrod couldn't have been the ranger. In that case, he wouldn't have started the debate in the first place.

If Nogrod's a thing and I'm right with my "lure"-theory, then Jenny was the ranger. This would mean she is a thing, now.

Side debaters yesterday were Folwren, Rune and me, Foley telling Nogrod he's ingenious, Rune telling him he doesn't buy his 'knows-the-rules'-argument on Jenny (makes me feel good about Rune, at the moment) and me telling him the same as Jenny did afterwards (why didn't he pick on me at all, I wonder).

So, if Nogrod's bad and if I'm right about his plan then maybe Jenny's bad right now, too. That's too many ifs for the moment, but I'm wary.

Probably the things were just lucky...

Volo · 10-12-2006, 07:23 AM

Yes, Mac. That's what I think. But Nogrod is the main target for me whoever the new thing is.

Kitanna · 10-12-2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

BUT I no longer agree that he voted for Lommy out of nowhere. A further look at his posts shows that he was suspicious of her all day, and she topped his list all day. In fact, he's quite clear about that, Kitanna.

Oh I know that. I'm just saying in his last few posts it seemed you and Mac were more likely his choices for voting. I'm well aware he suspected Lommy most of the time.

Kitanna · 10-12-2006, 07:47 AM

First and foremost I'd like to comment on Nogrod being the Ranger since it seems to be a hot subject right now. I have no accusation for or against it, but I don't think the Things would go after Nogrod and change him into one on the second night. Given Nogrod's track record of survival past the first few days one I'd think it'd be in the Things worst interest to attack Nogrod so early on. If Nogrod wasn't already a Thing, I don't think they would choose him Night Two.
I'd look to the quieter villagers, honestly. Someone who gained almost no suspicions from others, someone who has been flying well under the radar. Maybe even someone who put out a single safe vote. They'd be an asset to the Things because they have flown under everyone's radar and can probably do so for another day or two.
I'm not sure I follow Volo's reasoning of suspecting Nogrod.

Quote:

by his yesterdays performance, he began his normal agressive approach only when I noted his strange behavior.

That's pretty understandable, however...

Quote:

Also he tried to stay out of bandwagons even knowing that Jenny won't be lynched, as if he wasn't really trying.

I have also thought about a possibility that Nogrod, wasn't a thing last day, but today he most certainly is. The things would want him first, plus his talk about the ranger might mean that he was the ranger. So he's a thing today, whatever he was yesterday.

I'd say if Nogrod was the Ranger he'd have no confusion about the rules. If anyone is the Ranger in that scenario it would be Jenny. Back to the real point, I'm not getting Volo's logic. Nogrod hadn't even spoken yet, but Volo is so sure he was the Ranger and is now the Thing. What evidence do you have for that? If Nogrod's playing styles changes today then we may have something, but to make that kind of statement before you've even had a chance to see if Nogrod has changed is rather careless.
Obviusly we won't hear from Nogrod today, but I'm hesitant to find him overly guilty. His actions yesterday point to some sort of a guilt, but if he was innocent yesterday I'm betting he is probably innocent today.

Quote:

Only person not mentioned by Folwren is Menel. Don't know if that's significant or not. Likely not.

It could possibly have some meaning, given Menel's vote and vote placement of yesterday.

Quote:

I still think Nogrod couldn't have been the ranger. In that case, he wouldn't have started the debate in the first place.

If Nogrod's a thing and I'm right with my "lure"-theory, then Jenny was the ranger. This would mean she is a thing, now.

Side debaters yesterday were Folwren, Rune and me, Foley telling Nogrod he's ingenious, Rune telling him he doesn't buy his 'knows-the-rules'-argument on Jenny (makes me feel good about Rune, at the moment) and me telling him the same as Jenny did afterwards (why didn't he pick on me at all, I wonder).

So, if Nogrod's bad and if I'm right about his plan then maybe Jenny's bad right now, too. That's too many ifs for the moment, but I'm wary.

Probably the things were just lucky...

I don't think Nogrod and Jenny are Things. In the scenario of the Ranger I agree that Nogrod was probably not the Ranger and that all signs point to Jenny as the Ranger and now possible Thing. But that debate is not enough in my mind to go on. The other Ranger debate of yesterday had me raising my eyebrow, but I think too much is being put into the dispute over the rules and role of the Ranger.

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 07:52 AM

I feel I must, respectfully, disagree.

Menel's first serious post, number 57 for those keeping track, iterated suspicions of Mac and Lommy.

His first mention of me was in 62, saying that he felt I was maintaining an appearance of helpfulness, but not really saying anything. At the end of this post, he reiterates that he is most likely to vote for Lommy or Mac.

In post 82, Menel said that he felt less uneasy about Mac because of his continued defense of Rikae. In that post he said his top suspects were Lommy and myself.

I think he is very clear throughout that he is more suspicious of Lommy than Mac or myself, and his vote seems clearly documented. I do not think that Menel was a Thing yesterday. (This, of course, has nothing to do with whether he might be a thing today, but as he hasn't spoken yet today, this possibility cannot be discussed intelligently.)

EDIT: X'ed with Kitanna's second post.

Rune Son of Bjarne · 10-12-2006, 07:57 AM

All this today has produced so far has been a hype over Nogrod. . . I find him suspiciouse, but I would hate for this turn out to a "lets all vote Nogrod day".

I might vote Nogrod, but I think that we need to fokus on other things as well, even if Nogrod is a thing we would still be helping the remaining two by not caring about anything else.

I must say that Kitanna's aproach to things really makes me feel good about her, she is right now the one that seems most inoccent to me. I am not sure what to make of her case against Menel and the other Lommy voters, I will have to look through it later tonight.

Edit: Cross posted with Jenny

Volo · 10-12-2006, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I'd say if Nogrod was the Ranger he'd have no confusion about the rules. If anyone is the Ranger in that scenario it would be Jenny. Back to the real point, I'm not getting Volo's logic. Nogrod hadn't even spoken yet, but Volo is so sure he was the Ranger and is now the Thing. What evidence do you have for that? If Nogrod's playing styles changes today then we may have something, but to make that kind of statement before you've even had a chance to see if Nogrod has changed is rather careless.

It might be that I too hard stay on my logic, but I didn't say I'm sure about Nogrod being a Ranger on day 1. I like more Mac's theory about Nogrod trying to lure the Ranger. But whichever way, I find Nogrod suspicious. I don't understand his posts, they don't make any sense to me, a lot of talk and suspicion without reason. That was how my father (wolf) was caught.

(he told that he won't be playing today http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...postcount=1620 )

Kitanna · 10-12-2006, 08:36 AM

Most of my case against Menel is about his voting placement. He picked a good spot to vote in, second vote for Lommy, pushed a bandwagon forward. I also still stand by what I've said concerning his suspicions of Mac, Lommy, and Jenny, but I'm not going to act on this until Menel says something today.
Also I really want to hear from Naria. I find her far more suspcious than Menel. Her vote broke the tie between Nogrod and Lommy. Naria made two posts and had time to read through everything. She can easily say she found Lommy the most suspicious and toss out the vote because Lommy had two votes and/or the vote could possibly save Thing comrade Nogrod.

Suspects in order:
Naria~ The placement of her vote for Lommy has me extremely worried. I want to hear a little more from her today.

Menel~ Mostly vote placement, and a little bit having to do with Jenny and Mac as well. I would also like to hear from him before acting.

Nogrod and Jenny~ I think if one is a Thing, the other is not. I form that opinion mostly because of the Ranger debate from yesterday. I'd say Nogrod was mostly likely not attacked last night due to his track record of survival. Though I think his playing style is a bit unNogrodish I've seen him in many different roles and this new style fits none of them. Hard to pin down. Likewise I'm finding it hard to pin Jenny down. If the Ranger debate holds any water I'd say Jenny could have been our Ranger, but the Ranger debate gives very little to go on. So Jenny and Nogrod are pretty low on the suspect list.

Volo~ I'm still not catching his reasons against Nogrod and I keep wondering if there's a plot between those two. Plus is change of vote to Nogrod is having making me question most of what Volo says.

Rikae~ Rates very low and is mostly on because of her vote change. When she changed her vote many had already voted and Lommy was ahead, so Rikae wasn't trying to save anyone. I can't decide what her vote change means in the end.

Macalaure · 10-12-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

All this today has produced so far has been a hype over Nogrod. . . I find him suspiciouse, but I would hate for this turn out to a "lets all vote Nogrod day".

I might vote Nogrod, but I think that we need to fokus on other things as well, even if Nogrod is a thing we would still be helping the remaining two by not caring about anything else.

I agree. Though I probably end up voting him, too, I don't like it: He's not here to defend himself. Usually I'd go for someone else, but we might not get the chance to lynch him tomorrow. Also, I don't see a good alternative lynchee at the moment, though I'm looking for one.
Right now, Jenny and Menel follow Nogrod in a long distance, to me.

I'm impatiently waiting to hear some real arguments by Naria, Glirdan, Gil-Galad, Eonwe and Briseis. I feel unable to put these five anywhere.

Meneltarmacil · 10-12-2006, 09:26 AM

Arr, it be a sorry sight that greets me toDay.

Now, as for Nogrod, I think he certainly could be a Thing, but I'll go ovver his posts later and post my findings afterward to be sure. Ye might be onto something with the idea that he doesn't quote reasons. Hmm, perhaps we ought to look at those he did give good reasons for; maybe he's covering them up? Anyhow, I be reservin' judgement on him until I've thoroughly looked over his posts.

I be less suspicious of JennyHallu for now; she seems to be helping more here.

As for Macalaure, I do't completely trust him. That vague list he made of his suspicions and voting for Lommy based mainly on a hunch be a little unsettling to me.

Macalaure · 10-12-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Nogrod and Jenny~ I think if one is a Thing, the other is not. I form that opinion mostly because of the Ranger debate from yesterday. I'd say Nogrod was mostly likely not attacked last night due to his track record of survival. Though I think his playing style is a bit unNogrodish I've seen him in many different roles and this new style fits none of them. Hard to pin down. Likewise I'm finding it hard to pin Jenny down. If the Ranger debate holds any water I'd say Jenny could have been our Ranger, but the Ranger debate gives very little to go on. So Jenny and Nogrod are pretty low on the suspect list.

Kitanna, if you don't think that Nogrod's behaviour is strange, then look at Folwren's. It's not so much that she tried to associate with him, that can be interpreted in any way, it's her vote. Put yourself in her place. She knew Lommy was innocent. The outcome would have been Lommy or Nogrod. If Nogrod is innocent, then why should she bother? Seeing either an innocent Lommy or an innocent Nogrod go down is a fun thing for a thing. Why did she get involved in it when she could have voted you absolutely safely? She suspected you all the time, she could've voted for you and nobody would have held her suspicious. But she decided that she preferred a dead Lommy to a dead Nogrod. Why, if Nogrod was innocent?

I also have a different opinion on the relation between Nogrod and Jenny. If Nogrod's a wolf, then it was his intention to lure the ranger. If Jenny was the ranger, then she took the lure. If Jenny wasn't the ranger, it was luck for the things. I'd say it's 50-50 here.
If Nogrod's innocent, then still Jenny could be the ranger and accidentally gave herself away, but it means that the things weren't so very eager to find the ranger from the start, and so the probability that they were just lucky is higher in my opinion.
Does this make sense?

Uhm, Menel, I was just summing up my suspicions back then. My suspicion lead was tied between Jenny and Lommy. How else do you break a tie than with a hunch?

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac

Kitanna, if you don't think that Nogrod's behaviour is strange, then look at Folwren's. It's not so much that she tried to associate with him, that can be interpreted in any way, it's her vote. Put yourself in her place. She knew Lommy was innocent. The outcome would have been Lommy or Nogrod. If Nogrod is innocent, then why should she bother? Seeing either an innocent Lommy or an innocent Nogrod go down is a fun thing for a thing. Why did she get involved in it when she could have voted you absolutely safely? She suspected you all the time, she could've voted for you and nobody would have held her suspicious. But she decided that she preferred a dead Lommy to a dead Nogrod. Why, if Nogrod was innocent?

Perhaps the reason she chose a bandwaggon was that Kitanna is a Thing herself. Suspicion of Kitanna creates distance between them, but she didn't actually seem to want her killed...and today, Kitanna seems to be helpful, but I'm not finding much to support her arguments. She suspects Menel for a reason that disappears under close scrutiny of his posts, and makes an either-or about Nogrod and I based on a rules dispute---in a game where the rules are unusual. Never before has the game been played with these rules...why does she hold confusion there as so suspicious?

Meneltarmacil · 10-12-2006, 12:29 PM

I've been reviewing Nogrod's posts, and so far I haven't been able to turn up much. His list of reasons for voting mostly contains reasons why votes tended to be random, but I suspect he may have been trying to cast suspicion on people with it (not citing my reasons for voting Lommy and instead giving nonsensical banter from my post).

For the most part, he tended to shift suspicion from one person to the other over the course of the Day, which is rather suspicious but not unusual on Day 1.

I'm developing some slight suspicions of him at this point, and I would like to hear from him toDay, especiallly regarding this strange message he posted:

Quote:

You will know the truth with the very message that reveals you the situation toMorrow morning.

I can't find anything especially revealing about last Night's death.

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 12:33 PM

When did he post that? When he was warning against me "machinating" his death, and making all kinds of hints as to our dire situation if he died?

Meneltarmacil · 10-12-2006, 12:43 PM

Aye, that be it, lass. This post to be exact.

Macalaure · 10-12-2006, 12:52 PM

Sheesh, it is pretty slow-going at the moment, isn't it?

Right now, I'm...

..leaning toward guilty (in varying degrees) with:
JennyHallu
Meneltarmacil
Nogrod

..leaning toward innocent (in varying degrees) with:
Volo
Kitanna
Rikae
Rune

This leave 5 people who have posted and contributed near to nothing! One or two really silent villagers is not a problem, but at five it becomes dangerous for us all.
Gil-Galad, Naria, Glirdan, Briseis, Eonwe... speak up!!

on an aside note: Jenny, at Lommy-4, Kitanna-0, a vote for Kitanna from Folwren would have been as safe a vote as one could wish for, even if Kitanna is guilty.

Kitanna · 10-12-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

on an aside note: Jenny, at Lommy-4, Kitanna-0, a vote for Kitanna from Folwren would have been as safe a vote as one could wish for, even if Kitanna is guilty.

You really think so? I'd say her vote for Lommy was pretty safe given the fact Lommy was two votes ahead of the runner-up (Nogrod). A vote for someone who has no votes is always a safe vote, but jumping on a bandwagon that is well under way is also pretty safe.

Quote:

Gil-Galad, Naria, Glirdan, Briseis, Eonwe... speak up!!

I completely agree. I really want to hear from Naria because she's pretty much my top suspect. But I also think the Things would go after someone extremely quiet, who had no suspicion surrounding them, a safe choice to attack in the night. Those quiet ones had little suspicion around them yesterday. I understand RL issues get in the way, but say something helpful before today ends.

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 01:05 PM

I am aware that Kitanna would have been a safe vote. It was just a passing thought I decided to share. Frankly, I am completely boggled that Folwren voted for Lommy when she did. Perhaps she felt that toDay it would be construed as a simply horrible vote for a Thing to make, and thus felt it was as safe as any.

Her use of the word "ingenious" to describe Noggie's take on the Ranger rules is interesting. Ingenious implies creativity, or at least fabrication. Could she have been implying Nogrod was deliberately promoting an incorrect interpretation of the rules?

I'm not sure where I lean on who is most suspicious.

The placement of Menel's vote is suspicious, the vote itself is not. I'm inclined to think him innocent, but I would be silly to cheerfully box him away as one or the other.

There are many things about Noggie's posts that are suspicious, and many that make me feel he is innocent. Plus, I will not vote for him when he has been totally honest and upfront about his absense today. Those who barely post are one thing, those who are clear about their real-life limitations are quite another. It still seems possible to me that Kitanna is a canny Thing, and I wonder if her analyses today are an attempt by a Thing to influence the way the village sees that information, before anyone else does an analysis.

And you Mac, I suspect you also...but this is just a vague uneasiness I can't back up, and so won't act upon.

I am concerned about how many people have been quiet or near silent in this Village. It is a huge village, and it's far too easy for the three or four of us who are actually talking to be the only ones on anyone's radar screen.

EDIT: X'ed with Kitanna

Meneltarmacil · 10-12-2006, 01:17 PM

Yes, my vote placement was pretty decisive in putting Lommy in the lead. I fully acknowledge my part in getting her lynched. However, I believe I have adequately explained that my vote was based on a reasonable suspicion of her at the time.

And Macalaure, I would like to hear your reasons for finding me guilty as well. Was it simply my vote placement, or did something else catch your eye?

Looking back on Nogrod, the idea of his rule-related questions being a lure for the Ranger sounds interesting, and JennyHallu could well be the Ranger who walked into it. I'm inclined toward suspecting her and Nogrod at this point.

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 01:22 PM

Oh because the Ranger is of course the only player who knew what the rules were. I'm sorry, but I'm frustrated with all the suspicion of me being based on the fact that I knew the rules, and shared them when people were confused. This is ridiculous.

Macalaure · 10-12-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

And Macalaure, I would like to hear your reasons for finding me guilty as well. Was it simply my vote placement, or did something else catch your eye?

The vote placement, the pirate talk (remembers me of Wolfgrod, I'm happy you talk normal again), that I couldn't get a read of you though you posted enough, the somehow lax way you treat my other suspects Nog and Jenny today (being a bit suspicious, being a bit unsuspicious). You're far from the top of the list, if that comforts you.

edit: it's been almost 6 hours now that somebody else but me, Kit, Jenny and Menel has posted...

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 01:38 PM

Just so y'all know, I'm going to have to vote in about 20 minutes. Power could be out again, plus my husband is sick at home and may need attention. I might be back after four, I might not.

I have no idea who to vote for, but right now it will probably go to someone silent. We can't defend ourselves against an enemy we do not see or hear.

Kitanna · 10-12-2006, 01:39 PM

Ok, I'm rereading the whole Ranger debate of the rules. It pretty much started with this:

Quote:

So just to mention this. Please Ranger! Stay calm, avoid being picked by the thingies and pick wisely yourself! You are our greatest asset in this game! The Seer and the Weaver will have valuable knowledge, but it will be transient and thence unsure as the status of people here will change. But the Ranger practically kills a thing with every save s/he makes! So we can lynch the things during the Days but the Ranger may also effectively "kill" them during the Nights (by not allowing the next one to transform)!

Suspicous, sure, but this is behavior normal of innocent and guilty Nogrod. I mean telling the gifted how to act.
I think the stranger thing was Nogrod really started to suspect Jenny for getting the rules right. If Nogrod was trying to bait the Ranger, I don't think that convicts Jenny. I knew what the rules were and had I been around I would have acted the same as Jenny, and I'm sure other villagers would have too. Jenny just happened to be the one who corrected Nogrod.
We should be wary with this. A lot of stock is being put into the whole Ranger debate and that could prove to be very dangerous.

Volo · 10-12-2006, 01:49 PM

Well, I'm really sorry for myself if I'm wrong, but now from talk to deeds.

++Nogrod

The theater took longer than I thought...

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 01:51 PM

Here's a vote:

++Glirdan

This may change, but for now I've got a random choice among the silent and near-silent villagers.

I mean really, who's spoken today?

Kitanna,
Me,
Volo,
Menel,
Mac,
Rune,
Rikae,
Eonwe

And Eonwe is still a near-silent. *sigh* This is the best I've got so far.

JennyHallu · 10-12-2006, 01:52 PM

Double posting..

It's not totally random, it's the only one Folwren mentioned twice in her "I'd like to hear more" lists.

Eonwe · 10-12-2006, 02:47 PM

Well, perhaps I can amend that, Miss Hallu!!

This certainly is a prolific village, even if I'm not...

So what we're saying is that Flowren was a Thing, and now the Ranger has been infested by a Thing? Hmmm...

About yesterday's Ranger debate. It is indeed very intersting and probobly pretty helpful that it happened. I personally feal good about Jenny and Mac. They just seems very objective and rational about it. But then again, that is the best way for a Thing to hide: you cannot ever see past people when they are saying smart things, can you? And I agree with Mac, that Nogrod was prolly not the ranger. What would he stand to gain? Why not just PM Valier about it primately?

Rikae · 10-12-2006, 03:23 PM

Well, I'm back.

I must say, I suspected Nogrod of being either an old or new thing this morning, and after reading the posts, I'm inclined to go with my original instincts. Nogrod, it seems to me, practically ran around screaming “I'm gifted!” yesterday, which is strange enough by itself, but added to the fact that yesterday's ranger is today's new thing, is pretty condemning.

He made that giftedish post about us knowing the truth today (which only told us he know a gifted would be attacked last night).

He also posted this strangeness:

“*my keyboard suddenly started acting in it\s own way and I will have to close the thing to get it working normally again... if that is possible*...it is not only that Jenny knew the rules, there was much other things more pressing than that”

the following could be taken at face value, or seen as another ranger hint:

“I'm a bit worried about my operation I might not get to sleep so easily”

Now, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it looks like he's trying to tell us he's the Ranger and Jenny is a thing...which may very well mean that Nogrod was a thing and Jenny was innocent.

I see these possibilities:

1. Nogrod was a thing and was bluffing with this stuff – therefore, lynch Nogrod

2. Nogrod was the ranger, and so is now a thing – therefore, we should lynch hum

3. Nogrod was the seer or weaver, and expected to be attacked during the night – therefore, we shouldn't lynch him

4. Nogrod is an innocent sacrificing himself to protect the gifteds – in which case, we're better off lynching a thing, but better off lynching Nogrod than accidentally lynching the seer or weaver.

As far as #3 goes, It seems unlikely that the real seer or weaver would expose himself like that on Day One, and if he did, that the things wouldn't attack him that night.

Regarding everybody else's posts:

Volo and Mac made sensible arguments & I agree with them. Like I said yesterday, Mac looks pretty innocent to me at this point, and Volo still seems to be acting strangely, but I can't come to any definite conclusion about him.

Our silent players (Gil, Naria, Eonwe and Glirdan): I'm tempted to lynch one of them, both out of fear of a thing flying under the radar and to keep the contributing players in the game, but on second thought, the death of a silent player won't give us any real leads, regardless of whether they are proven guilty or innocent. The death of someone who has been active will at least give us a trail to follow.

Jenny: Already looked suspicious because of the whole Nogrod situation, and nothing she's said so far has made her seem less so.

Kitanna: Her suspicion of Menel and Naria due to vote placement seems logical, but I think we have stronger leads at this point. Kitanna seems to want to shift the focus away from Nogrod. This especially looks like a strange thing to say, regarding Jenny and Nogrod: “I think if one is a Thing, the other is not. I form that opinion mostly because of the Ranger debate from yesterday” is an odd thing to say, indeed, considering that things are different today than yesterday in any event. She doesn't seem to have a logical reason for the assumption that Jenny and Nogrod are not linked. If Nogrod turns out to be a thing, I will definitely be more suspicious of Kitanna

Menel- seems to be acting differently today (and I miss the in-character posts!) - he now suspects Mac and is less suspicious of Jenny? Why? Perhaps Menel is not himself toDay? He also said “I can't find anything especially revealing about last Night's death.”, which is very odd indeed, knowing the ranger was attacked seems pretty “revealing” to me. .

As it stands, I'll probably vote for Nogrod tonight, but I'm holding off for now so I can take as much of today's discussion into account as possible.

Macalaure · 10-12-2006, 04:06 PM

It's getting late around here, so here's my vote.

I don't think Nogrod's the seer/weaver. If he was, he would have laid low (not giving hints and acting like an ordo) until he knew something of substance. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't act that nervous and anxious about his lynch.

Jenny or Menel would be my alternatives to voting Nogrod, but I don't feel so clearly about them as I do about Nogrod. Especially now that the village is quite silent, it's awful to get rid of somebody as lively as him.

*sigh*

++Nogrod

Another alternative would be lynching a quiet one, but that would be the ultimate shot into the dark, and I doubt there's more than one thing among them.

Meneltarmacil · 10-12-2006, 04:22 PM

Arrr, seems like I be a little suspicious today, eh? I must say, I wasn't expecting a mutiny out of ye...

My main suspects be Nogrod and JennyHallu. Nogrod because of his shifting suspicions, omission of me voting reasons, and the whole business with the Ranger-baiting. 'Course, his post about how the Night's death would reveal something be a little odd no matter how ye look at him, Thing or no...

JennyHallu, though, be another matter. She could well be the Ranger-turned-Thing, but then again she may not. Or she could have been a Thing from the beginning, as I found her pretty suspicious yesterDay. Either way, I be planning on making Nogrod walk the plank toDay before reaching a decision on her.

Macalaure, matey, the pirate talk needn't concern ye, as it be an in-character thing. I've explained me vote enough already, and I be fairly suspicious of both Jenny and Nogrod (the latter more so). Avast ye!

Naria · 10-12-2006, 06:27 PM

I am a little confused as to why there is a 'Ranger debate' and how Nog is connected to this? We were told that our Ranger died yes, but we were not told whom the Ranger was. So how are we able to go back to a certain post or two to determine what transpired if we have no real leads to go on. Yes Nog is acting strange, but I didn't connect his chit chat to being a Ranger. And if one went back to the start of Night one there is no mention from Valier stating that the Ranger can do his/her duty for the Night. Hmm, more thinkin to do....

Rune Son of Bjarne · 10-12-2006, 06:32 PM

Jenny and Mac has raised the interestimg points about the high number of silent people we have in our comunity. . .

What to do about them. . . lynching them would be pretty random, but leaving them would leave lots of opportunety for the things to hide. Should we just hope they speak up at some point or what do you guys think?

About Nogrod. . . I am quite suprised about how sertain people are of his guild. I can understand an uncertain susspicion like my own, but the confident I see at some people are just overwhelming and I don't know what to think of it.

hmm Maybe we should just lynch him and get this subject out of the way, although I would hate to lynch a person is not able to defend him self.

Edit: Cross posted with Naria

Kitanna · 10-12-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naria

We were told that our Ranger died yes, but we were not told whom the Ranger was. So how are we able to go back to a certain post or two to determine what transpired if we have no real leads to go on.

Our Ranger didn't die, perse, he/she became a Thing.

Naria · 10-12-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

She voted when Nogrod and Lommy had two votes each, but her vote for Lommy pushed Lommy back into the lead.

Now Kit I do realise that I had not talked very much that Day, but I did read everything through and Lommy's excuse was viable but made me leary after she did not show up again that Day. I have stated why I was leary and thence voted for her and consequently regret it. I did not vote for Nogrod because I thought him a gifted. Now that I have had more time to re-read everything and look through the rules, I am not so sure about that anymore.(see post above)

Meneltarmacil · 10-12-2006, 07:30 PM

I might as well vote now; I doubt anything extremely important will occur toDay until the lynching.

++Nogrod

ought to be fed to the sharks, keel-hauled, or whatever; 'tis all the same, me mateys.

10-12-2006, 06:23 AM	#123
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	What I have here is what was written before the start of today. Unfortunately my classes are against me timewise and it will be a while until I can look into the death fo Folwren. After the events of yesterday I went through the thread to look at Nogrod, Jenny, and Volo, to elaborate on my suspicions of them due to their disputes yesterday. Honestly it all seemed slightly more important last night when I was reading through. I still plan on commenting on it, but I’d like to see what this day brings before completely elaborating on it. Though I will say, and I believe I echo Jenny here, it was interesting for Nogrod to prompt Volo into changing his vote from Mac to Nogrod. He told Volo to remember his retractable vote and to “think about it”. I can’t decide exactly what that means. Trying to lead votes away from Mac or help give Volo an air of suspicion for other voters. I will return to them later. The important issue in my mind, however, is the voters for Lommy. Mac voted first and well before day ended. Looking at his other top suspects he didn’t seem too convinced of any them. He was the fourth person to vote and (not counting Volo’s retracted vote) and of those voted for; none had received more than one vote. Menel voted for Lommy next, though he also suspected Jenny (as stated in his post before his vote) though he also mentioned Mac as being a Thing. I saw little against Lommy in his earlier posts, mostly mentioned the fact she voted for Rikae though she didn’t find her overly suspicious. It looked as though Jenny and Mac were higher on Menel’s lists, but he voted for Lommy. It’s possible to say he picked the one suspect that had garnered one vote and would help in stopping any chaos over single votes throughout the village which is an innocent move and a guilty move rolled into one. If that makes sense. An innocent villager would do that and could help by not adding another single vote to someone when they have suspicions of someone already voted for. But that logic is easily applied to a Thing trying to hide within a bandwagon. Naria voted for Lommy next. Claims Lommy is acting very unLommyish and doesn’t believe the excuse given for Lommy’s early vote and absence. Rikae then decides Mac isn’t so Thingish and changes her vote to her other top suspect. Folwren/Jack voted for Lommy after spending a good deal of the day suspecting her. So unless I missed a vote for Lommy hiding away those five are the voters of Lommy. I have my suspicions of Mac from yesterday, but due to the voting patterns of yesterday I’m moving him down and bumping the other four Lommy voters up. Menel tops the list. He was the second voter and pushed Lommy into the lead. Looking at his last three or four posts I’d say his most likely vote choice would have been Jenny or Mac. He never commented on what pushed Lommy ahead in his mind and I hope he does today. Naria is the next on the list. She voted when Nogrod and Lommy had two votes each, but her vote for Lommy pushed Lommy back into the lead. That makes me wonder about a possible relationship between Naria and Nogrod. Rikae voted for Lommy last and changed her vote from Mac. Normally this would set alarms off in my brain, but Rikae suspected Mac and Lommy much of the day. That fact makes me think she gave some real thought to who she should vote for and who was the most suspicious. I feel Rikae and Folwren/Jack fall into the same category. Both suspected Lommy much of the day and they both voted when Lommy was already ahead in the votes. Because of that I find them far less suspicious than Naria and Menel. I'll be back in a few hours with comments on Folwren's death and the events of the day thus far. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

10-12-2006, 06:52 AM	#125
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Only person not mentioned by Folwren is Menel. Don't know if that's significant or not. Likely not. BUT I no longer agree that he voted for Lommy out of nowhere. A further look at his posts shows that he was suspicious of her all day, and she topped his list all day. In fact, he's quite clear about that, Kitanna. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 07:23 AM	#127
Volo Silver in My Silent Heart Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: the great beauty Posts: 1,611	Yes, Mac. That's what I think. But Nogrod is the main target for me whoever the new thing is. __________________ Fenris Wolf The EVEN NEWER Barrow-Downs Photo Page

10-12-2006, 07:52 AM	#130
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	I feel I must, respectfully, disagree. Menel's first serious post, number 57 for those keeping track, iterated suspicions of Mac and Lommy. His first mention of me was in 62, saying that he felt I was maintaining an appearance of helpfulness, but not really saying anything. At the end of this post, he reiterates that he is most likely to vote for Lommy or Mac. In post 82, Menel said that he felt less uneasy about Mac because of his continued defense of Rikae. In that post he said his top suspects were Lommy and myself. I think he is very clear throughout that he is more suspicious of Lommy than Mac or myself, and his vote seems clearly documented. I do not think that Menel was a Thing yesterday. (This, of course, has nothing to do with whether he might be a thing today, but as he hasn't spoken yet today, this possibility cannot be discussed intelligently.) EDIT: X'ed with Kitanna's second post. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 08:36 AM	#133
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	Most of my case against Menel is about his voting placement. He picked a good spot to vote in, second vote for Lommy, pushed a bandwagon forward. I also still stand by what I've said concerning his suspicions of Mac, Lommy, and Jenny, but I'm not going to act on this until Menel says something today. Also I really want to hear from Naria. I find her far more suspcious than Menel. Her vote broke the tie between Nogrod and Lommy. Naria made two posts and had time to read through everything. She can easily say she found Lommy the most suspicious and toss out the vote because Lommy had two votes and/or the vote could possibly save Thing comrade Nogrod. Suspects in order: Naria~ The placement of her vote for Lommy has me extremely worried. I want to hear a little more from her today. Menel~ Mostly vote placement, and a little bit having to do with Jenny and Mac as well. I would also like to hear from him before acting. Nogrod and Jenny~ I think if one is a Thing, the other is not. I form that opinion mostly because of the Ranger debate from yesterday. I'd say Nogrod was mostly likely not attacked last night due to his track record of survival. Though I think his playing style is a bit unNogrodish I've seen him in many different roles and this new style fits none of them. Hard to pin down. Likewise I'm finding it hard to pin Jenny down. If the Ranger debate holds any water I'd say Jenny could have been our Ranger, but the Ranger debate gives very little to go on. So Jenny and Nogrod are pretty low on the suspect list. Volo~ I'm still not catching his reasons against Nogrod and I keep wondering if there's a plot between those two. Plus is change of vote to Nogrod is having making me question most of what Volo says. Rikae~ Rates very low and is mostly on because of her vote change. When she changed her vote many had already voted and Lommy was ahead, so Rikae wasn't trying to save anyone. I can't decide what her vote change means in the end. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

10-12-2006, 06:17 AM	#122
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	I just reread Folwren's posts. Here are my findings: #42 Defends Rikae Doesn't like Lommy's vote, accuses her Defends me Tells us that Glirdan, Gil, Rune and Volo have not contributed much. (hmmm...) #49 Says: "Oh!! I think you're right! Ingenious, Nogrod!" about Nogrod's ranger confusion (I know I'm doing now what I just criticised, but this line is just too funny ) Defends Rikae from Kitanna Talks with Rune about tactics the way a thing would #56 Complains about silence of Naria, Briseis, Eonwe, Glirdan (I no longer think this is just coincidence) Compliments Nogrod #71 Answers Jenny about Nogrod telling Volo to retract, thinks Nogrod thought me innocent #79 Tells she'll be away for some time Tries to get people discuss about deadline Restates suspicion on Lommy #96 Defends me from Kitanna, slightly suspiciuos of her Tells us Nogrod is right, again #103 More suspicion on Kitanna, puts time pressure on her #107 After deadline is cleared, keeps up the time pressure #109 Eases grip on Kitanna to justify vote for Lommy Doesn't vote safe Folwren deepens my belief that the things are trying to make us lynch "weaker" villagers. She clings closely to Nogrod. If Nogrod's a thing, Folwren's vote would fit perfectly into the picture. The way she accuses her eases my own suspicion about Kitanna. She defended Rikae the way she defended me. This makes me feel good about Rikae. Since I'm now fairly convinced of Nogrod's guilt, I hoped I would be able to read some hint towards the third (now second) thing from Folwren's post. I failed.

10-12-2006, 07:19 AM	#126
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	Coming back to the ranger issue: I still think Nogrod couldn't have been the ranger. In that case, he wouldn't have started the debate in the first place. If Nogrod's a thing and I'm right with my "lure"-theory, then Jenny was the ranger. This would mean she is a thing, now. Side debaters yesterday were Folwren, Rune and me, Foley telling Nogrod he's ingenious, Rune telling him he doesn't buy his 'knows-the-rules'-argument on Jenny (makes me feel good about Rune, at the moment) and me telling him the same as Jenny did afterwards (why didn't he pick on me at all, I wonder). So, if Nogrod's bad and if I'm right about his plan then maybe Jenny's bad right now, too. That's too many ifs for the moment, but I'm wary. Probably the things were just lucky...

10-12-2006, 09:26 AM	#135
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Arr, it be a sorry sight that greets me toDay. Now, as for Nogrod, I think he certainly could be a Thing, but I'll go ovver his posts later and post my findings afterward to be sure. Ye might be onto something with the idea that he doesn't quote reasons. Hmm, perhaps we ought to look at those he did give good reasons for; maybe he's covering them up? Anyhow, I be reservin' judgement on him until I've thoroughly looked over his posts. I be less suspicious of JennyHallu for now; she seems to be helping more here. As for Macalaure, I do't completely trust him. That vague list he made of his suspicions and voting for Lommy based mainly on a hunch be a little unsettling to me. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

10-12-2006, 12:33 PM	#139
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	When did he post that? When he was warning against me "machinating" his death, and making all kinds of hints as to our dire situation if he died? __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 12:43 PM	#140
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Aye, that be it, lass. This post to be exact. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

10-12-2006, 12:52 PM	#141
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	Sheesh, it is pretty slow-going at the moment, isn't it? Right now, I'm... ..leaning toward guilty (in varying degrees) with: JennyHallu Meneltarmacil Nogrod ..leaning toward innocent (in varying degrees) with: Volo Kitanna Rikae Rune This leave 5 people who have posted and contributed near to nothing! One or two really silent villagers is not a problem, but at five it becomes dangerous for us all. Gil-Galad, Naria, Glirdan, Briseis, Eonwe... speak up!! on an aside note: Jenny, at Lommy-4, Kitanna-0, a vote for Kitanna from Folwren would have been as safe a vote as one could wish for, even if Kitanna is guilty.

10-12-2006, 01:05 PM	#143
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	I am aware that Kitanna would have been a safe vote. It was just a passing thought I decided to share. Frankly, I am completely boggled that Folwren voted for Lommy when she did. Perhaps she felt that toDay it would be construed as a simply horrible vote for a Thing to make, and thus felt it was as safe as any. Her use of the word "ingenious" to describe Noggie's take on the Ranger rules is interesting. Ingenious implies creativity, or at least fabrication. Could she have been implying Nogrod was deliberately promoting an incorrect interpretation of the rules? I'm not sure where I lean on who is most suspicious. The placement of Menel's vote is suspicious, the vote itself is not. I'm inclined to think him innocent, but I would be silly to cheerfully box him away as one or the other. There are many things about Noggie's posts that are suspicious, and many that make me feel he is innocent. Plus, I will not vote for him when he has been totally honest and upfront about his absense today. Those who barely post are one thing, those who are clear about their real-life limitations are quite another. It still seems possible to me that Kitanna is a canny Thing, and I wonder if her analyses today are an attempt by a Thing to influence the way the village sees that information, before anyone else does an analysis. And you Mac, I suspect you also...but this is just a vague uneasiness I can't back up, and so won't act upon. I am concerned about how many people have been quiet or near silent in this Village. It is a huge village, and it's far too easy for the three or four of us who are actually talking to be the only ones on anyone's radar screen. EDIT: X'ed with Kitanna __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 01:17 PM	#144
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Yes, my vote placement was pretty decisive in putting Lommy in the lead. I fully acknowledge my part in getting her lynched. However, I believe I have adequately explained that my vote was based on a reasonable suspicion of her at the time. And Macalaure, I would like to hear your reasons for finding me guilty as well. Was it simply my vote placement, or did something else catch your eye? Looking back on Nogrod, the idea of his rule-related questions being a lure for the Ranger sounds interesting, and JennyHallu could well be the Ranger who walked into it. I'm inclined toward suspecting her and Nogrod at this point. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

10-12-2006, 01:22 PM	#145
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Oh because the Ranger is of course the only player who knew what the rules were. I'm sorry, but I'm frustrated with all the suspicion of me being based on the fact that I knew the rules, and shared them when people were confused. This is ridiculous. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 01:38 PM	#147
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Just so y'all know, I'm going to have to vote in about 20 minutes. Power could be out again, plus my husband is sick at home and may need attention. I might be back after four, I might not. I have no idea who to vote for, but right now it will probably go to someone silent. We can't defend ourselves against an enemy we do not see or hear. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 01:49 PM	#149
Volo Silver in My Silent Heart Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: the great beauty Posts: 1,611	Well, I'm really sorry for myself if I'm wrong, but now from talk to deeds. ++Nogrod The theater took longer than I thought... __________________ Fenris Wolf The EVEN NEWER Barrow-Downs Photo Page

10-12-2006, 01:51 PM	#150
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Here's a vote: ++Glirdan This may change, but for now I've got a random choice among the silent and near-silent villagers. I mean really, who's spoken today? Kitanna, Me, Volo, Menel, Mac, Rune, Rikae, Eonwe And Eonwe is still a near-silent. sigh This is the best I've got so far. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 01:52 PM	#151
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Double posting.. It's not totally random, it's the only one Folwren mentioned twice in her "I'd like to hear more" lists. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

10-12-2006, 02:47 PM	#152
Eonwe Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In a world grown ever smaller. Posts: 678	Well, perhaps I can amend that, Miss Hallu!! This certainly is a prolific village, even if I'm not... So what we're saying is that Flowren was a Thing, and now the Ranger has been infested by a Thing? Hmmm... About yesterday's Ranger debate. It is indeed very intersting and probobly pretty helpful that it happened. I personally feal good about Jenny and Mac. They just seems very objective and rational about it. But then again, that is the best way for a Thing to hide: you cannot ever see past people when they are saying smart things, can you? And I agree with Mac, that Nogrod was prolly not the ranger. What would he stand to gain? Why not just PM Valier about it primately? __________________ I've got bridge club on Wednesday, Archery on Thursday, Dancing on a Friday night!

10-12-2006, 03:23 PM	#153
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	Well, I'm back. I must say, I suspected Nogrod of being either an old or new thing this morning, and after reading the posts, I'm inclined to go with my original instincts. Nogrod, it seems to me, practically ran around screaming “I'm gifted!” yesterday, which is strange enough by itself, but added to the fact that yesterday's ranger is today's new thing, is pretty condemning. He made that giftedish post about us knowing the truth today (which only told us he know a gifted would be attacked last night). He also posted this strangeness: “my keyboard suddenly started acting in it\s own way and I will have to close the thing* to get it working normally again... if that is possible...it is not only that Jenny knew the rules, there was much other things more pressing* than that” the following could be taken at face value, or seen as another ranger hint: “I'm a bit worried about my operation I might not get to sleep so easily” Now, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it looks like he's trying to tell us he's the Ranger and Jenny is a thing...which may very well mean that Nogrod was a thing and Jenny was innocent. I see these possibilities: 1. Nogrod was a thing and was bluffing with this stuff – therefore, lynch Nogrod 2. Nogrod was the ranger, and so is now a thing – therefore, we should lynch hum 3. Nogrod was the seer or weaver, and expected to be attacked during the night – therefore, we shouldn't lynch him 4. Nogrod is an innocent sacrificing himself to protect the gifteds – in which case, we're better off lynching a thing, but better off lynching Nogrod than accidentally lynching the seer or weaver. As far as #3 goes, It seems unlikely that the real seer or weaver would expose himself like that on Day One, and if he did, that the things wouldn't attack him that night. Regarding everybody else's posts: Volo and Mac made sensible arguments & I agree with them. Like I said yesterday, Mac looks pretty innocent to me at this point, and Volo still seems to be acting strangely, but I can't come to any definite conclusion about him. Our silent players (Gil, Naria, Eonwe and Glirdan): I'm tempted to lynch one of them, both out of fear of a thing flying under the radar and to keep the contributing players in the game, but on second thought, the death of a silent player won't give us any real leads, regardless of whether they are proven guilty or innocent. The death of someone who has been active will at least give us a trail to follow. Jenny: Already looked suspicious because of the whole Nogrod situation, and nothing she's said so far has made her seem less so. Kitanna: Her suspicion of Menel and Naria due to vote placement seems logical, but I think we have stronger leads at this point. Kitanna seems to want to shift the focus away from Nogrod. This especially looks like a strange thing to say, regarding Jenny and Nogrod: “I think if one is a Thing, the other is not. I form that opinion mostly because of the Ranger debate from yesterday” is an odd thing to say, indeed, considering that things are different today than yesterday in any event. She doesn't seem to have a logical reason for the assumption that Jenny and Nogrod are not linked. If Nogrod turns out to be a thing, I will definitely be more suspicious of Kitanna Menel- seems to be acting differently today (and I miss the in-character posts!) - he now suspects Mac and is less suspicious of Jenny? Why? Perhaps Menel is not himself toDay? He also said “I can't find anything especially revealing about last Night's death.”, which is very odd indeed, knowing the ranger was attacked seems pretty “revealing” to me. . As it stands, I'll probably vote for Nogrod tonight, but I'm holding off for now so I can take as much of today's discussion into account as possible. Last edited by Rikae; 10-12-2006 at 03:31 PM. Reason: typos

10-12-2006, 04:06 PM	#154
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	It's getting late around here, so here's my vote. I don't think Nogrod's the seer/weaver. If he was, he would have laid low (not giving hints and acting like an ordo) until he knew something of substance. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't act that nervous and anxious about his lynch. Jenny or Menel would be my alternatives to voting Nogrod, but I don't feel so clearly about them as I do about Nogrod. Especially now that the village is quite silent, it's awful to get rid of somebody as lively as him. sigh ++Nogrod Another alternative would be lynching a quiet one, but that would be the ultimate shot into the dark, and I doubt there's more than one thing among them.

10-12-2006, 04:22 PM	#155
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Arrr, seems like I be a little suspicious today, eh? I must say, I wasn't expecting a mutiny out of ye... My main suspects be Nogrod and JennyHallu. Nogrod because of his shifting suspicions, omission of me voting reasons, and the whole business with the Ranger-baiting. 'Course, his post about how the Night's death would reveal something be a little odd no matter how ye look at him, Thing or no... JennyHallu, though, be another matter. She could well be the Ranger-turned-Thing, but then again she may not. Or she could have been a Thing from the beginning, as I found her pretty suspicious yesterDay. Either way, I be planning on making Nogrod walk the plank toDay before reaching a decision on her. Macalaure, matey, the pirate talk needn't concern ye, as it be an in-character thing. I've explained me vote enough already, and I be fairly suspicious of both Jenny and Nogrod (the latter more so). Avast ye! __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

10-12-2006, 06:27 PM	#156
Naria Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 500	I am a little confused as to why there is a 'Ranger debate' and how Nog is connected to this? We were told that our Ranger died yes, but we were not told whom the Ranger was. So how are we able to go back to a certain post or two to determine what transpired if we have no real leads to go on. Yes Nog is acting strange, but I didn't connect his chit chat to being a Ranger. And if one went back to the start of Night one there is no mention from Valier stating that the Ranger can do his/her duty for the Night. Hmm, more thinkin to do.... __________________ MONEY Anyone who says it doesn't buy happiness.....is probably broke.

10-12-2006, 07:30 PM	#160
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	I might as well vote now; I doubt anything extremely important will occur toDay until the lynching. ++Nogrod ought to be fed to the sharks, keel-hauled, or whatever; 'tis all the same, me mateys. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.