LotR1-FotR-Seq05

[alatar]

Only those that are lost can never go home.

There’s movement in the cornfield, and we find Sam hiking along. But where’s Mr. Frodo? Sam's panic may be due to having seen Children of the Corn as you're just never sure what walks between the rows. But really, were Sam and Frodo walking so far apart that Sam would lose sight or 'ear' of him? But it sets up a great line - "I thought that I'd lost you." Gollum's song at the end of TTT eerily talks about being lost, and here we see that Sam and Frodo may make it through as with each other, neither is lost. And we will see and hear Sam say something similar later in the movie, but at that time he won't be treading stalks…

And is this cornfield flat or on a hillside? Looking over Sam’s shoulder, it appears slanted. Looking towards Frodo, it appears flat.

No! It's Merry and Pippin trampling though the cornfield. Can't anyone hear? Pippin comes off not only as a thief but also a glutton. No sympathy being generated for this character. And later, when Gandalf hears of this merry meeting as they all are sitting around in Minas Tirith at the beginning of the Fourth Age, he will say surely something like, “and you were meant to crash into Sam and Frodo…” Farmer Maggot as the hand of Eru.

And did you notice the sun disappearing and reappearing behind Frodo?

We then have four hobbits caterwauling over the hillside, which looked like a cliff but I guess that it really wasn't - as the real fall would have killed them all. Pippin's near miss is a real miss, joke-wise. What is it with PJ, short persons and slapstick? Wow! Those are some dirty feet. It never hit me until now how dirty these shoeless travelers must be. The book hobbits always washed their feet thrice daily (that’s how I read it, though without my books I won’t be able to provide a source ). Finally we see a mysterious vegetable – the carrot. Get a good look, as a cousin of this carrot is going to play an important part in plot development in a few minutes. And of course you caught the cleverly added chapter title from the book.

Luckily we get back to some more seriousness as 'something' is coming down the road, as sensed by Frodo. The mist further down the trail, the mottled sunlight, the use of the camera lens and a leaf blower (or whatever) to distort the scenery - nothing overdone here to set up that something wicked this way comes. As the hobbits hide like little children playing, we glimpse a bit more clearly what is riding those black horses. To me, this is a better thrill than the beheading or the Gandalf-grab. You hear the horse's footfalls before seeing it. The Black Rider doesn't jump off the horse, or slither down the tree; it dismounts noisily (all of that metal armor) and starts sniffing for Frodo. There’s a build-up, and that's cool. Nice camera angle when the camera rotates groundward. Makes the Nazgul appear even larger. Children and the boogeyman, that’s what I see.

One nitpick here – does the horse pass behind the right side of the tree? To me it looks like the horse appears to the left of the tree magically.

The grey metal gauntleted hand above the hobbits has sharp pointy edges. Now just where did we just see something like that recently? PJ states that he added the bugs and arachnids to the scene in order to show that even these were fearful of this Nazgul. Initially when I saw the scene, however, I thought that the insects weren't fleeing but just trying to creep the hobbits out so that they would betray themselves.

Sam helps Frodo defy the siren song of the Ring, and this puts off the Nazgul somewhat. The pack or whatever thrown by Merry confounds the creature even more...which seems a bit silly. Must have been sunny and 12 PM (hope that I don’t have to explain that).

Now we finally get to some chills. Darkness always helps the boogeyman. The Nazgul hunt the hobbits in the fog-lit forest. I can just taste the adrenaline rush. We see that Merry does have a serious helpful side with his suggestion to cross the river at the Buckleberry Ferry – and I think that he knows something of Frodo and the Ring, just like in the books. Pippin yells for the four to hit the dirt, which he said more than loud enough. We see the silhouette of the Nazgul stalking horse, which I think was a desktop picture or screensaver. Note that the Nazgul you fear is better than the Black Rider you...hmm. Or was it where the Nazgul prows the… Anyway, think that shortly we’re all going to realize that there are more than one of these creatures.

Bam! We get one of those standard 'jump out at you' thrills as a Black Rider finds the hobbits. Now, you'd think that as it senses the Ring, it's night, the bearer is a foot or two away that it could have accomplished a little more than stamping about nonsensically. Was Merry tossing luggage in the bushes, which as we all know disorients these creatures? Note to Nazgul: Next time you find yourself spinning in circles trying to figure out which of four hobbits to trample, just behead one (you know how…), and your decision will be simpler. Repeat as necessary.

Now this is nitpicky, but a horse cannot keep pace with hobbits? And was that Frodo yelping as he falls off of the fence? Where's that "don't you leave him, Samwise Gamgee” now when you really need it?

That's Elijah Wood doing the leap onto the barge.

So we've made it to the safety of Bree. The hobbits get their first taste of Tallsville, and they're really none too sure that it a good place to be. Ouch! The PJ cameo. Was that carrot colorized so that it stood out from the scenery? As the hobbits stand at Barliman's desk, the 'big guy' walks by like nothing's happening, yet there was some subtle size trickery there.

Yes, Frodo gives the name "Underhill." Okay. So what? He could have said anything, like Gamgee, or even Baggins. Sure, this declaration later would not allow Frodo to attempt to stop Pippin's faux pas, but surely we could have worked something out. And Barliman knowing the hobbit's name is one thing, but the ill-favored looking man that Pippin found as a friend? It’s Pippin, and even if one were nameless, odorless, invisible, etc, the Pip would find some way to sabotage the plan. It’s in his blood.

And wasn't Pippin paying attention when Frodo said that he was Mr. Underhill? Didn’t they just try to enter Bree stealthily? See what I mean?

But Gandalf hasn't arrived, which is a surprise and letdown to Frodo but not to us, as we know that he’s on his way to the Orthanc penthouse. And how does this tie into some of Gandalf's first words about being neither early nor late? If he were late coming to Bilbo's birthday then couldn’t he also be late meeting Frodo? It might have been more of an event if we thought that Gandalf was there.

Never take a Ring of Power to an inn where patrons keep weasels as pets. Or black cats.

Again we have Frodo comforting Sam regarding Gandalf’s arrival. But before we get too serious there’s the “Fun with Measures” Pippin and Merry show. And who would have thought that there were so many interesting words regarding volumes? Pip is at it again; are we sure that he’s on our side? If only he could become a wraith so that the Nazgul could benefit from his tomfoolery.

One thing about the Prancing Pony is all of the little and big hand-made artifacts lying around. The mugs etc are real, and so the place looks lived in, not some plasticky set.

Before we learn of the mysterious stranger in the corner, I just wanted to note that Merry and his pint were seated across from Sam when Pippin goes off for his own. When the innkeeper speaks with Frodo, Merry is now across from Frodo. A big deal? Not at all. Just another example of the Pippin effect.

So Strider is one of those Rangers. We get a pipe bowl-lit glimpse of his non-fair face. Didn’t think that he was one of those Black Riders. But before we see more of Strider, we have to watch Frodo become stupid and twirl the One Ring under the table. I guess in Westron the words, “Keep it hidden, keep it safe,” exclude fondling an object of great power and possibly the key to the end of the age in a public room. Every time Frodo goes hazy I just want to reach out and give him a shake.

Now, if there were five Nazgul sitting across from Frodo, feigning to play Texas Hold’em but actually chanting for Frodo to put on the Ring, I could understand what was going on. But as far as we know, the Nazgul are miles distant, and so what possesses Frodo to act so stupidly?

It has to be the weasel or Pippin. Or the carrot.

The close-up of Elijah’s hands beg the question – does he bite his nails? And what’s with the man with the dribble mug? But Frodo’s trance is broken as he hears his name. Thanks Pip. Why don’t you just hold me while the men at the bar rob us? Cousin Frodo, not knowing the inherent power of stupidity, attempts to stop Pippin from making more declarations. Pow! And Frodo goes earthward as the Ring sails overhead, and then, as luck would have it, the Ring would jump onto his finger. And into a hole in the floor goes Frodo.

No cows jumping over the moon here.

Suddenly the Nazgul are aware of the Ringed Frodo. Hello! And Frodo seems to be in a shadow world of wind. Not exactly as I pictured the invisible world, but it works as it’s not a nice place to be – there’s a price to pay for wearing the Ring. And something else sees Frodo now.

The voice of Sauron here is a bit too clear. I would think that it should be more Andy Serkis Nazgul-like, or a BOOM! shock speaker-melting voice of a Maia who hopes to straddle the continent. And now we see the Eye of Sauron, close up. Hey, who let the eye in the bar? Now, I know that as this is the first time that Frodo puts on the Ring, and since Bilbo left Bag End less than an hour ago that Sauron has increased in power, but to have the Eye introduced here so overwhelmingly (and then not again) is a little much. Was there a more toned-down approach to making the Eye connection without going full screen?

And “I see you” stated by a large fiery eye? Need I state the obvious?

Frodo struggles through the immaterial inn as the Eye talks to him – can’t make out the words. He removes the Ring and reaches the safety of the visible world. Or so he thinks. Frodo is grabbed away, and then we see that it’s that Strider guy manhandling him out of the bar and up the steps. Thought that a disappearing hobbit would have resulted in more clamor.

I like this next scene – Strider barely visible under his hood, tension, verbal sparing…We learn that Rangers cannot be seen if they so desire. Special abilities; not your average person here. Strider ups the thrill by saying that he knows what hunts the Ringbearer. But before we hear more, the other three hobbits rush to the rescue.

No, no, no! And I was liking this scene too. What is Aragorn doing with an unbroken sword? And didn’t his keen senses note that it was three hobbits at the door and not Nazgul or squint-eyed southerners? And Merry has a stout heart, not Sam – well, Sam does, but…

Strider states that “they’re coming.” We’ll hear this line later in the movie when more than Nazgul are approaching. Does PJ practice ‘conservation’ of dialogue for a reason? The gatekeeper is ridden flat, and the Nazgul burst in on Bree like the four horsemen of the Dagor Dagorath. And they enter the inn as Barliman mutters hiding in the corner. Trip them, you fool!

Speaking of fooling, did anyone think that the hobbits were about to receive acupuncture, Mordor-style? In the books, was it the wraiths or their henchpersons that attacked the beds? But I assume that the cutting back and forth between the beds and the hobbits in their bed tents (just how does one place covers over one’s head so that you have a foot or two of empty space?) works for those who don’t know what is about to happen.

You see Aragorn sitting, looking out the window, and you can just read it in his eyes, “I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night. And this night too.”

Nothing makes Nazgul scream like down. If only it came in barrels…

Finally some information on these Black Riders. I love Viggo’s narration over the images of the Nazgul. It works for me – information via the ear while I get to see eye candy. A little gem from PJ to us. And it continues for a while. Did you see Bree in the background as the hobbits and Strider come up onto the plateau. And there’s Bill! We’re getting back to the book. And there’s another gem – “…feel fouler.” Strider hears the hobbits’ conversation, yet doesn’t jump in right away. He lets them air their grievances and concerns. Again PJ has great scenery shots, where we see the troop traveling on to Rivendell.

More fun with Pippin. Does he have a tapeworm?

There are those apples again. Pippin gets hit with one deservedly. And now on to the Midgewater Marshes. Just like I pictured the place. Aragorn supplies the piranha-spawned hobbits with venison, and I couldn’t believe that this was shown as it may offend vegetarians and those who don’t favor hunting. The hobbits sitting around a non-existent fire with Bill in the background looks like a scene out of a Western movie. The scene looks a bit fake too. But at least we get to hear Aragorn singing, and Frodo clues us in to the content. Tinúviel, an elf wed to a mortal, dies. Think that not only was this scene drawn from the books, but also it may have added some information, however small, regarding the fate of Arwen.

As the hobbits sleep, and Aragorn keeps watch, the Moon overhead travels across Middle Earth, and it sees many things down below. Maybe it sees that traitor Saruman, and what he’s up to. And maybe, just maybe that same Moon sees the Grey Wizard.

Special off-topic update: here are a few pictures of the new addition. Be warned; proud father alert.

[Mister Underhill]

Quite a comprehensive post, Sir alatar! Insightful, humorous, and extremely observant too, I might add. No time at the moment for a long post, but I thought I'd toss in a few quick impressions and comments:

The Eye's dialogue (it's in the subtitles) is, "There is no life in the Void. Only death." Put that together with, "I see you.", and one might get the impression that movie Sauron isn't the sort of guy who could hold up his end of a conversation very well.

The design in this sequence is fantastic. I love the Nazgûl armor, though I might have wished for less uniformity in their costumes and weaponry. I like how their horses don't sound quite like normal horses -- though watching the sequence just now they made me think of Star Wars tauntauns. I love Aragorn's costume, and while I'm at it I really like Viggo in the part. He looks like a man who's put a few hard miles on the old odometer -- far superior to Stuart Townsend, who originally had the part. The shot of his pipe illuminating his eyes is one of my favorites in the trilogy. Love the landscapes, especially during the Strider/hobbits travel montage, and I like that they managed to get a little singing, which is such a big part of Tolkien, into the EE.

The biggest problem I have with the sequence by far is the introduction of woozy Elijah (with the blazing full-screen Eye and all that it implies close behind). I'll get to those when I have more time.

Oh, and by the way, that's a heck of good looking clan you've got there! Cute as buttons, every one. Compliments to you and Mrs. alatar.

[Essex]

Originally Posted by alatar

No! It's Merry and Pippin trampling though the cornfield. Can't anyone hear? Pippin comes off not only as a thief but also a glutton. No sympathy being generated for this character. And later, when Gandalf hears of this merry meeting as they all are sitting around in Minas Tirith at the beginning of the Fourth Age, he will say surely something like, “and you were meant to crash into Sam and Frodo…” Farmer Maggot as the hand of Eru.

First use of coincidence in the film, as we do not have the Conspiracy unmasked as 1/ Frodo keeps the ring locked away in his chest and 2/ no gap of 17 years for the hobbits to work too much out about the Ring.

We then have four hobbits caterwauling over the hillside, which looked like a cliff but I guess that it really wasn't - as the real fall would have killed them all. Pippin's near miss is a real miss, joke-wise. What is it with PJ, short persons and slapstick?

It’s called lightening the mood and then BAM! PJ heightens the tension straight away with the Nazgul. And this leads onto….

Luckily we get back to some more seriousness as 'something' is coming down the road, as sensed by Frodo

This also shows the more ‘mature’ character of Frodo which a lot of people say is missing in this film (which I disagree with). The other younger hobbits ‘mucking about’ while Frodo stands apart, looking for trouble.

Sam helps Frodo defy the siren song of the Ring, and this puts off the Nazgul somewhat. The pack or whatever thrown by Merry confounds the creature even more...which seems a bit silly.

remember the nazgul could not SEE too well, and used their other senses to compensate didn’t they. i.e. Hearing – so this works fine.

Note to Nazgul: Next time you find yourself spinning in circles trying to figure out which of four hobbits to trample, just behead one (you know how…), and your decision will be simpler. Repeat as necessary.

wouldn’t the nazgul want to take the bearer of the Ring alive, back to Mordor to be questioned/tortured/slowly killed by Sauron?

Now this is nitpicky, but a horse cannot keep pace with hobbits?

Running through trees in the dark, with an almost blind nazgul after them? Sounds feasible to me. And what an amazing shot of the nazgul on the horse bearing down on Frodo as he runs towards the ferry.

And wasn't Pippin paying attention when Frodo said that he was Mr. Underhill? Didn’t they just try to enter Bree stealthily? See what I mean?

yes, and pretty much taken from the book. We had pippin loudly talking about Bilbo baggins’s party – not quite ‘baggins is over there’ but close

But before we see more of Strider, we have to watch Frodo become stupid and twirl the One Ring under the table. Every time Frodo goes hazy I just want to reach out and give him a shake….. But as far as we know, the Nazgul are miles distant, and so what possesses Frodo to act so stupidly?

We need to show Frodo being affected by the Ring, and without a narrator’s voice, how do we do this? I think this bit works superbly well. He is not doing this CONSIOUSLY therefore he is not being stupid.

The close-up of Elijah’s hands beg the question – does he bite his nails?

I remember something about PJ doing this on purpose – i.e. movie Frodo DOES bite his nails.

Cousin Frodo, not knowing the inherent power of stupidity, attempts to stop Pippin from making more declarations. Pow! And Frodo goes earthward as the Ring sails overhead, and then, as luck would have it, the Ring would jump onto his finger. And into a hole in the floor goes Frodo.

pretty much like the book except we don’t have the Song. And, as mentioned in the text of the book in Bree, Frodo felt - “For a moment he wondered if the Ring itself had not played him a trick; perhaps it had tried to reveal itself in response to some wish or command that was felt in the room.”

Now, I know that as this is the first time that Frodo puts on the Ring, and since Bilbo left Bag End less than an hour ago that Sauron has increased in power, but to have the Eye introduced here so overwhelmingly (and then not again) is a little much.

Yep, as mentioned in previous sequence posts, we have the first BIG inconsistency in the movie here.

Speaking of fooling, did anyone think that the hobbits were about to receive acupuncture, Mordor-style? In the books, was it the wraiths or their henchpersons that attacked the beds? But I assume that the cutting back and forth between the beds and the hobbits in their bed tents (just how does one place covers over one’s head so that you have a foot or two of empty space?) works for those who don’t know what is about to happen.

this was no doubt a homage to the Ralph baski version – it’s almost a direct copy of the scene from the cartoon lotr.

I love Viggo’s narration over the images of the Nazgul. It works for me – information via the ear while I get to see eye candy. A little gem from PJ to us.

yeah, that line ‘Sauron the deceiver’ taken from the Silmarillion. Brilliant. Although I can’t help hearing viggo’s voice fall back to American (or at least mid atlantic) in this scene. A bit off putting.

Did you see Bree in the background as the hobbits and Strider come up onto the plateau.

I thought it might be Archet myself.

[Boromir88]

I wanted to point out one little thing before I go back and watch the rest of the sequences. But, I noticed another nifty little thing Jackson and Co. added to the movies. Here's another comparison picture...



Frodo and Gollum are both trapped in the Ring. Though Frodo is not fully inside the ring. He's only about half-way covered by the Ring, so it shows already that he's getting taken over by the Ring. However, he's not to the extent of Gollum as he is fully encompassed in the Ring. His fate lies with that of the Ring, the Ring has total control over him, and there is no more chance of being saved. He is "encircled" in the Ring. Where Frodo is only partially at this point in Bree.

[Holbytlass]

Very quickly, I'd like to gripe a little about how Merry and Pippin joined the adventure. My juvenile humor does like what was shown, them being the youthful scamps that they are (especially since the 17 years have not been portrayed) stealing vegetables from Farmer Maggot, with Sam saying his name, a little gem for the book readers.

All of a sudden they're along for the ride. Which brings me to my little gripe, wouldn't Merry and Pippin's families wonder where they are? At least in the books, because of the conspirarcy, they probably let their families know they might be going on a trip or at least there was Fatty Bolger to let them know where Merry and Pip went.

I can imagine poor (movie) Farmer Maggot being on trial for the disappearance of Merry and Pippin.
Prosecutor: You were always threatening these lads with your scythe, you finally made good on your threat!
Defense Attorney: If there are no dead bodies to see, you must set him free!

More later on.....
Boromir, I love the picture comparisons you bring up.
Alatar, beautiful children, again congratulations.

[alatar]

Essex, great post as always. Just a few thoughts, though.

Originally Posted by Essex

wouldn’t the nazgul want to take the bearer of the Ring alive, back to Mordor to be questioned/tortured/slowly killed by Sauron?

It's possible, and I don't know how it was portrayed in the books, but in the last sequence didn't Saruman just tell Gandalf that the Nazgul would kill the bearer and take the Ring? Is this true, or was Saruman just trying to scare Gandalf?

We need to show Frodo being affected by the Ring, and without a narrator’s voice, how do we do this? I think this bit works superbly well. He is not doing this CONSIOUSLY therefore he is not being stupid.

It just seems a bit silly and inconsistent. The Nazgul have been in pursuit and in the area since Sam and Frodo leave Bag End. With the exception of the scene where the Nazgul is practically parting Frodo's hair with his nose, not once before has Frodo been so affected. Think that it could have been done better.

Although I can’t help hearing viggo’s voice fall back to American (or at least mid atlantic) in this scene. A bit off putting.

it's a well-known fact that Rangers hail from New York . And PJ was just being faithful to the text, as even book Frodo notices that Aragorn's accent/voice changes as they discuss the situation in the hobbit's room.

[Kath]

The close-up of Elijah’s hands beg the question – does he bite his nails?

Yes he does

All of a sudden they're along for the ride. Which brings me to my little gripe, wouldn't Merry and Pippin's families wonder where they are? At least in the books, because of the conspirarcy, they probably let their families know they might be going on a trip or at least there was Fatty Bolger to let them know where Merry and Pip went.

But then, Merry is a Brandybuck and Pippin is a Took. We are always hearing of the strange things members of those families get up to in the books so parents or relatives might just assume they were off on a foolhardy adventure, especially since they are a double-act. Also, Farmer Maggott has presumably seen them and will have a nice little gripe to their relations, who would then likely think that they were off somewhere to stay out of trouble.

It's possible, and I don't know how it was portrayed in the books, but in the last sequence didn't Saruman just tell Gandalf that the Nazgul would kill the bearer and take the Ring? Is this true, or was Saruman just trying to scare Gandalf?

I should say trying to scare Gandalf, maybe as a last ditch attempt to get him to join him and help. It says in the books I'm sure that Sauron wanted him alive, and in fact, Saruman wants him alive, he tells the orcs to bring any hobbits they find 'alive and unspoiled'.

I do like a lot of this next sequence. Bits of it are close to the book, like using Mr Underhill as a fake name, and Pippin accidentally ruining the plot (which I think works, and an excuse for him can be that he was drunk, especially since he was on 'pints' now). The introduction of Aragorn I liked, though not for a second did I think he was evil, and then the continuing scenes with him were good, because again they got closer to the book - Bill, the apples, the 'look foul and feel fair' bit with Aragorn of course hearing every word. I did love that bit, it was one of the well placed bits of humour, not obvious or over the top, just funny.

Oh, and the first encounter with the Nazgul was a great moment. So the horse can magically shorten its body enough to hide behind a tree - the creepiness that oozed from the screen was absolutely right. And as someone said, the later shot of a Nazgul bearing down on Frodo really made you feel scared, or scared for Frodo and the Quest.

[mormegil]

One of my grips about this sequence again comes down to the passing of time. Is is just me or does anybody else think that Bree is just a lesuirely jaunt from the other side of the Brandywine? The indication we get that some time passed is the fact that it is raining. A 30 second segment to show that there is some travel involved would be helpful.

I think PJ begins to use a bit too much humor in these sequence too. I would find it sufficient to have the one bit of humor after falling off the cliff and Merry 'thinks he's broken something', we really don't need to see horse excrement that Pippin nearly landed in then hear Merry. I understand what Essex stated about lightening the mood but seeing animal dung really isn't humorous except on a low-brow level perhaps.

A humorous mistake is seen when Pippin is whinning about not having 20 meals a day when travelling and Strider throw him the second apple. The apple hits Pip in the right side and a split second later the same apple is seen in Pippin's left hand (the apple was not there previous) either it was and incredible cross-body catch or a minor, yet comical mistake.

Some of these have already been said but I would like to add my list.

• Wonderful scenery
• I loved the whole Strider sequence, he looks exactly how I imagine though I can't watch it now without thinking of TORE's avatar
• The Nazgul look great, even though they are a bit buffonish in being feet away and not getting their hobbit
• The Nazgul scream is similar to how I imagined in the book--harsh and high pitched.

I am sad that the conspiracy never happened but I understand the need to rush things along and get out of the shire without longer delay.

One thing the we haven't discussed yet is the absence of Bombadil. I think that most all agree that it was necissary to forgo his inclusion whether you like him or not. I like the old coot but agree that this would be far too confusing and time consuming to include in the movie.

[Essex]

Oh my god! How could I forget Old Bombadil! I would have remembered if I#d listened to the commentaries. One of the things that 'annoyed' me once I'd seen TT was that Phillipa Boyens says that 'just imagine that the hobbits DID meet bomadil' just that they didn;t show it.

Now a couple of things - ok, so Aragorn gives them some swords to use - that shouldnlt happen, but in TT when pippin's talking to merry when they're captured by the orcs and near fangorn - pippin speaks about 'remember the stories about the old forest and trees that could move' - they wouldn't have been old stories if the hobbits had been through and eaten by old man willow!!!!!!!!!!! and anyway, in rotk ee, they get eaten by old man willow again!!!!! what dumb luck!

anyway, to me bombadil is one of the KEY characters of lotr, not just a throw away. It shows that not EVERYONE is suceptible to the Ring, and indeed is not changed by the Ring. He could also see Frodo when he wore the Ring.

But, and most importantly of all, the Quest would have failed totally if they did not go through the old forest and meet bombadil. I've mentioned this umpteen times on bombadil threads, but if Merry hadn't got his numenorean sword to help slay the witch king, then Game Over for Middle-earth. (domino effect)

I would have really have loved to have seen the bombadil scenes - we didn't need to see his hey doll merry doll neccesarily, but at least show him - and imagine the scenes in the Barrow with the sword against the hobbits' necks...........

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Essex

But, and most importantly of all, the Quest would have failed totally if they did not go through the old forest and meet bombadil. I've mentioned this umpteen times on bombadil threads, but if Merry hadn't got his numenorean sword to help slay the witch king, then Game Over for Middle-earth. (domino effect)

A safe assumption here is that the sword given to Merry is of Numenorean decent.

I really don't see Bombadil as a necissary character for the movies. He seems to be confusing enough to many of the people who read the books let alone adding such an enigma to the movie. The Fellowship is the one movie where time was pressing enough that parts couldn't be sacrificed to make room for Bombadil. Plus, he's not really a pivotal character. The movie story is much more cohesive without him. I would like to have seen the hobbits travelling through the old forest then coming to the main road to enter Bree, like I said earlier, this would have shown some time passing and given an idea of distance. But to include Tom would just convolute the story and confuse too many viewers.

[doug*platypus]

Merry and Pippin

Being more of a fan of the book than the movie, I'm not really partial to the introduction of our two hobbit friends. I admit, however, that in the context of PJs film version, the conspiracy would never have worked. The departure of Frodo and Sam was sudden, so there was never any time for planning it. But I wish that Merry and Pippin had one line stating why they were so determined to stick with Frodo through thick and thin, braving Black Riders and travelling far from home. Even one line, from either of them! At least set up the fact that they were inseparable chums rather than casual acquaintances.

I don't really like the way that two of our heroes are common vege thieves. If it had been up to me, conspiracy aside, I would have had a less hasty exit from Bag End, have Sam spying in daylight (much more likely), and had Merry and Pippin waiting for Frodo and Sam upon the road, having been tipped off by Sam.

As for the brief appearance of Farmer Maggot's hat, I hardly think that it was worth putting in. I don't feel at all placated by having him mentioned by name, and the chapter title recited. PJ assumingly uses this chapter title device to draw in readers of the books, but it never really worked on me, and felt a trifle overused (I can think of five instances in FOTR alone without effort).


The Old Forest, Bombadil and the Barrow Downs

All three of these chapters are inextricably linked. Without the misadventures of the Old Forest, there is little need for a rest stop at Bombadil's house. And without Bombadil, there would be noone to save the hobbits from the Barrow Wight. Lose one of these three chapters, and the other two are critically damaged. So it is with deep regret that I agree with the filmmakers who chose to leave all three out. Although I do greatly miss the Barrow Downs in particular. Frodo's moment of heroism, the treasure of the barrow, the hobbits gaining their swords (having earned them through surviving the peril of the barrow), and Merry's line: "The men of Carn Dûm came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah! the spear in my heart!".


The Nazgûl

When the Black Rider was peering over the tree root sniffing for hobbitses, and the creepy crawlies came out, I thought that was because the Rider was stirring up the evil creatures. It didn't occur to me that they were themselves frightened! I guess I need to be a little less judgmental of centipedes and spiders.

The Nazgûl being frightened off by a mere noise didn't work for me, because of a seeming inconsistency. They rode down the gatekeeping hobbit well enough, so they are hardly the nervous type. I also found it a bit unlikely that, later on, one is so close to the hobbits but unable to grasp them. The hobbits making it on to the ferry worked well; I think the filmmakers would have been better off trimming some of the pursuit scenes. Especially considering they take place at night, when the Nazgûl are supposed to be at their best.


Bree

I too thought that Bree was overly sinister and unfriendly. I think that overall, the movies show too much evil too early. I realise that the hobbits are now Outside and in considerable danger, but I think that the danger element was too drastically elevated at Bree. It should have been a little discomforting to the hobbits, not completely alien.


Strider

Like many others, I love that shot of Strider as he draws on his pipe and the embers light his eyes up. Pure on-screen magic. I thought that his manhandling of Frodo was out of place, though. PJ wants us to be unsure of his intentions, but then 5 minutes later the hobbits trust him anyway. So I'm not quite sure what was gained by having Strider push Frodo roughly into the room.

I really enjoyed Strider's explanation of who and what the Nazgûl are. Very creepy.

[sassyfriend]

Strider: I think that he was rough on Frodo because he was scared and angry that Frodo had put on the ring in the first place.