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01-07-2002, 01:46 PM | #1 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Why didnt Celeborn go with......
Why didn't Celeborn go with Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel to the Grey Havens, and pass over the sea? I know the above were ring-bearers(and Celeborn was not), and that is why they went but it also says:
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01-07-2002, 02:03 PM | #2 |
Wight
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It's my understanding that all elves (the Firstborn) could eventually go to the Grey Havens and sail to the West, so it wasn't that Celeborn wasn't "high enough" to go. I believe it was that he was not yet ready to forsake Middle-Earth. He loved the forests and the trees and "tarried" there during the waning of Lorien, before making the same journey as Galadriel.
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01-07-2002, 02:59 PM | #3 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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01-08-2002, 12:56 AM | #4 |
Eldar Spirit of Truth
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Celeborn had also aquired new lands after the War of the Ring, East Lorien I believe they were called. Celeborn was not ready to leave M E, and stayed in Lothlorien for some time, then in Rivendell, before finally sailing into the West to be with Galadriel.
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06-27-2003, 11:28 AM | #5 |
Emperor of the South Pole
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Celeborn needed a break from her, so he took several years before joining her in Valinor. I mean, to us mortals, a few hundred years is many lifetimes, but to an elf whose lived since the first age, it would be akin to a couple weeks away. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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06-27-2003, 11:37 AM | #6 |
Deathless Sun
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I think that he was still in love with the forests and trees of Middle-earth. Celeborn grew up amid trees and forests, and he probably still loved them. He wasn't wearied of Middle-earth yet, like Galadriel. Of course, there could always be another reason. They were married for millennia. Perhaps he just wanted a break from the golden, bossy Noldo! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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06-27-2003, 11:52 AM | #7 |
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i think celeborn had things to do, maybe some working together with thranduil since they divided the mirkwood.and maybe celeborn was there to look after the galadhrim who didn't go to valinor with galadriel.
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06-27-2003, 12:21 PM | #8 |
Deathless Sun
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I agree. East Lorien and what was left for Lothlorien probably still needed someone to look after it. I don't think that Thranduil would have been able to take care of a kingdom that large by himself.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
06-27-2003, 03:15 PM | #9 |
Denethor's True Love
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Yeh, Lorien was pretty much destroyed. Obviously Celeborn stayed behind to build a home for the remaining of his people.
Galadriel said that she would diminish and go into the West. I don't know if the book is the same as this movie information, but I take it that she implied the same. Does this mean that her time was basically up, and she was acknowledging it at that moment? Is that why she left before Celeborn? After the War was over, her time was over? Did the destruction of the ring(s) diminish her power and her strength in Middle Earth?
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06-27-2003, 03:53 PM | #10 |
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Celeborn had never been to Valinor, unlike Galadriel who was born there. She knew where and what she was going back to, and now that the power of the Elven Rings had gone she realised that things would change in Middle Earth. As Elrond said, the time of the Elves was over.
Things had probably not changed very much in the Undying Lands, Galadriel would still be a powerful force among her people, even though the Valar would be "calling the shots", so to speak. I think Celeborn's decision to stay was not only due to his attachment to the trees and forests that he knew, but also a reluctance to accept the changes he would have to make in order to "Sit at the Feet of the Valar". He was, after all, one of the Teleri who refused to make the first journey to Valinor when the call came. I always had the impression that Celeborn was not as impressed with the Valar as he might have been.
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06-27-2003, 07:06 PM | #11 | |
Wight
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Quote:
He may have needed time to set Lorien in order before leaving, because of the damage done to it in the war. My other theory is that he may have had a part in weeding out the remnants of orcs and bad people that were left after the fall of Sauron. This, of course, is just one of the things that kind of pops into my mind without warning, so if I'm wrong, disregard all of it.
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07-05-2003, 11:52 AM | #12 | |
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07-27-2003, 05:48 AM | #13 |
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To sort of build on what Eruanna wrote, Celeborn was a silvan elf, and had never been to Valinor. Maybe he just wasn't invited to go. I would think it's pretty harsh, though, if Galadriel petitioned to allow Sam (and Gimli) to come to Valinor but not her husband of X000 years. And they must have had trees and things in Valinor. Hey! Maybe all of the elves should have been invited back.
It's kind of off the subject, but I think it's really unfair that, just because Aragorn was king of Gondor, he was the only remaining (ie, not Boromir) member of the fellowship who wasn't allowed to come to Valinor. Poor Arwen.
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07-29-2003, 07:22 AM | #14 |
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But you are forgetting that Merry and Pippin didn't go either.
Personally, I agree with most of the opinions stated, that Celeborn stayed behind to tie up the loose ends of the Elves business. Also, I don't think he was excluded from coming to Valinor. That was open to all Elves, except the Noldor for a few thousand years. Namarie
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08-06-2003, 06:42 PM | #15 |
Animated Skeleton
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I think I have the info you are looking for.
This comes from Tolkien The Illustrated Encycolpaedia by David Day. "At the end of the Third Age, Galadriel sailed to the Undying Lands, but Celeborn remainded behind. With Galadriel gone, Celeborn and his Silvan Elves left Lothlorien and founded East Lorien in the south of what was Mirkwood. Celeborn ruled East Lorien for some time but finally retired to Rivendell. Some time after, he is believed to have sailed to the Undying Lands." I don't know for sure, but I believe the Undying Lands were open to all the Elves if they so desired to go.
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08-06-2003, 07:09 PM | #16 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
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08-06-2003, 07:55 PM | #17 |
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Either he could not, or did not want to. It is as simple as that.
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08-06-2003, 11:24 PM | #18 | |
Wight
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I don't really think Celeborn could not leave with the earlier batch of ships; I guess he simply chose to stay behind and do some governing over the remaining elves. And I guess he and Thranduil would have offered some assistance to King Elessar in "greening up" his kingdom after all the messing-up it suffered in the battle against Sauron.
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