The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-14-2013, 09:02 PM   #1
PaigeStormblood
Newly Deceased
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
PaigeStormblood has just left Hobbiton.
Westron translations?

Hey everyone I'm interested in translating modern names into Westron "Common tongue" for creating new characters for a lotr fanfic. However though Elven translation is simple Westron is quite sparse.

I look to translate the current names.

-Paige (I.e the main protagonist (A half-elf of Mirkwood)
-Samuel (A Fisherman from Lake Town)
-Hugo (A hired mercenary)
-Violet (A foreign merchant)

Any idea's?
PaigeStormblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 04:11 AM   #2
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,814
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Hi, could you clarify what you want. If you want true westron in the way that Sam Gamgee is really Banazr Galbasi then it might be a struggle. I don't think there is enough "original" common speech to refer to. Though since Banazr means halfwise and Hugo means intelligent you could perhaps use Azr.... However if you accept that Tolkien adapted old English for westron then it should be possible to find the meaning of modern, hebrew, and old French names and give them a similar treatment. I will have a look but while I have always found name meanings qnd traditions fascinating there are folk around whose knowledge of old English is much better so you may get a better offer.

Welcome to the Downs btw.
__________________
I see dead people.
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 05:44 AM   #3
PaigeStormblood
Newly Deceased
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
PaigeStormblood has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen View Post
Hi, could you clarify what you want. If you want true westron in the way that Sam Gamgee is really Banazr Galbasi then it might be a struggle. I don't think there is enough "original" common speech to refer to. Though since Banazr means halfwise and Hugo means intelligent you could perhaps use Azr.... However if you accept that Tolkien adapted old English for westron then it should be possible to find the meaning of modern, hebrew, and old French names and give them a similar treatment. I will have a look but while I have always found name meanings qnd traditions fascinating there are folk around whose knowledge of old English is much better so you may get a better offer.

Welcome to the Downs btw.
Ahh I see thank you. Well maybe not true westron, I'm aiming for these modern names to, I guess be de-modernized. Basically I seek for the names to hold the same meanings (i.e Paige I believe means assistant) but are translated as a name that would fit better in the setting of middle earth. I.e I can't see Jake's, Joel's, Kylies etc as fitting names in middle-earth.
PaigeStormblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 06:00 AM   #4
Zigr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 749
Zigr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Could they perhaps be interpolated to some extent from the Adnaic where an existing Westron word could not be found?
These pages might be helpful, they have a decent collection of known words in various vocabularies:
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/westron.htm
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/adunaic.htm
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried omer.
Zigr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 07:15 AM   #5
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,814
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
That makes it easier..ok.well I will try to find a few options later today.
__________________
I see dead people.
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 07:34 AM   #6
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,701
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood View Post
Ahh I see thank you. Well maybe not true westron, I'm aiming for these modern names to, I guess be de-modernized. Basically I seek for the names to hold the same meanings (i.e Paige I believe means assistant) but are translated as a name that would fit better in the setting of middle earth. I.e I can't see Jake's, Joel's, Kylies etc as fitting names in middle-earth.
You really need to consider where each character is meant to hail from. Though many of the names in "Lord of the Rings" are supposed to be translations or substitutions, they follow definite patterns, e.g. dwarves use Old Norse names, Rohirrim Old English, etc. I think you might find it easier to start afresh with names chosen on that basis, as the ones you've got are peculiarly hard to do anything with. (I tried.)

Anyway, you may find this site helpful.
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." Elmo.
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 07:38 AM   #7
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,701
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlrien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigr View Post
Could they perhaps be interpolated to some extent from the Adnaic where an existing Westron word could not be found?
These pages might be helpful, they have a decent collection of known words in various vocabularies:
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/westron.htm
http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/adunaic.htm
I gather the OP isn't looking for actual Westron, just names that won't sound out of place.
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." Elmo.
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 05:21 PM   #8
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,814
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
I haven't had as much time as I hoped for this today since I ended up having to try out my first aid... anyway so far....
Samuel means God has heard or God's name.. so Godhyrede though present tense seems a bit more name like Godhyreth. Theree are a couple of oe god names, Godric, Godwin which have variants where god has morphed into os..osric oswin so you could have Osnam for the God's name meaning.

Paige has its origin in page boy, the first stage in training to be a knight. I am playing with a few possibilities linked to the latin meanin but the oe equivalent of the role is thegan or thegn..the origin of Thain and Merry was Theodens sword thane.

Hugo..still, working on but getting somewhere..Violet, oddly since there is an elvish name, helin, is the hard one wvwn though I have found a plant index. I am looking at rendering the english traditional name hearts ease maybe. However since some names got adapted by sound rather than meaning you may want to tinker a bit ...or look at the hobbit genealogies and see if there is anything similar. I think there is definitely a hugo. Remember that the Baranduin became Brandywine. AnywayI am sor4y not to have more promising results but I suppose if it had been easy you wouldn't be asking!
__________________
I see dead people.
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 11:43 PM   #9
PaigeStormblood
Newly Deceased
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
PaigeStormblood has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen View Post
I haven't had as much time as I hoped for this today since I ended up having to try out my first aid... anyway so far....
Samuel means God has heard or God's name.. so Godhyrede though present tense seems a bit more name like Godhyreth. Theree are a couple of oe god names, Godric, Godwin which have variants where god has morphed into os..osric oswin so you could have Osnam for the God's name meaning.

Paige has its origin in page boy, the first stage in training to be a knight. I am playing with a few possibilities linked to the latin meanin but the oe equivalent of the role is thegan or thegn..the origin of Thain and Merry was Theodens sword thane.

Hugo..still, working on but getting somewhere..Violet, oddly since there is an elvish name, helin, is the hard one wvwn though I have found a plant index. I am looking at rendering the english traditional name hearts ease maybe. However since some names got adapted by sound rather than meaning you may want to tinker a bit ...or look at the hobbit genealogies and see if there is anything similar. I think there is definitely a hugo. Remember that the Baranduin became Brandywine. AnywayI am sor4y not to have more promising results but I suppose if it had been easy you wouldn't be asking!
Oh wow, thank you for your help Mithalwen, you didn't have to go through all the trouble. I'm very thankful . Now the only issue is Paige for since she's female Thegan/gn sounds fairly masculine. Is their any good way to feminize it abit?
PaigeStormblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 12:35 AM   #10
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,814
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood View Post
Oh wow, thank you for your help Mithalwen, you didn't have to go through all the trouble. I'm very thankful . Now the only issue is Paige for since she's female Thegan/gn sounds fairly masculine. Is their any good way to feminize it abit?
I will see what I can find! And you don't have to be too thankful...I am nowhere near nice enough to volunteer if it weren't the sort of puzzle that interests me anyway.

I quite agree about thegan sounding masculine. I nearly typed it but then remembered offending a friend who was shortlisting baby names by saying the Welsh girls names she was considering Megan and Tiegan sounded a bit hard unless you had a soft welsh accent...fortunately she had boys so it was moot...but I try to tread carefully now...
__________________
I see dead people.
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:48 AM   #11
Enw
Flame Imperishable
 
Enw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,889
Enw is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Enw is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Enw is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood View Post
Hey everyone I'm interested in translating modern names into Westron "Common tongue" for creating new characters for a lotr fanfic. However though Elven translation is simple Westron is quite sparse.

I look to translate the current names.

-Paige (I.e the main protagonist (A half-elf of Mirkwood)
-Samuel (A Fisherman from Lake Town)
-Hugo (A hired mercenary)
-Violet (A foreign merchant)

Any idea's?
For Samuel, I'd go more for something like Godred/Osred ('God-counsel').

As for Paige, I looked in the Sindarin wordlist (Direct link to Word Document), and it's a bit difficult. For now, the best I could find would be Gwaedhwen, which could mean something like 'bond[of loyalty]-maiden'. Some other interesting parts I found are 'buia-' ('serve, hold allegiance to', though I think it just sounds ugly as part of a name) and 'hr'/'heron'/'brannon' ('master') and 'maethor' ('warrior').

For the other two, more information is needed about where they actually come from for even an attempt at a name.
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place

Last edited by Enw; 07-18-2013 at 08:57 AM.
Enw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 03:57 PM   #12
PaigeStormblood
Newly Deceased
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
PaigeStormblood has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enw View Post
For Samuel, I'd go more for something like Godred/Osred ('God-counsel').

As for Paige, I looked in the Sindarin wordlist (Direct link to Word Document), and it's a bit difficult. For now, the best I could find would be Gwaedhwen, which could mean something like 'bond[of loyalty]-maiden'. Some other interesting parts I found are 'buia-' ('serve, hold allegiance to', though I think it just sounds ugly as part of a name) and 'hr'/'heron'/'brannon' ('master') and 'maethor' ('warrior').

For the other two, more information is needed about where they actually come from for even an attempt at a name.
.

Well Hugo is a mercenary of Gondorian descent. He roams far and wide in search of new jobs and opportunities to make gold.
Violet's origins are off the end of the map, in a land that is heavily themed around the Spanish culture.
PaigeStormblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 07:20 AM   #13
Enw
Flame Imperishable
 
Enw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,889
Enw is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Enw is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Enw is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaigeStormblood View Post
.

Well Hugo is a mercenary of Gondorian descent. He roams far and wide in search of new jobs and opportunities to make gold.
Violet's origins are off the end of the map, in a land that is heavily themed around the Spanish culture.
Well, if Hugo's Gondorian, then I think Sindarin names are the most appropriate again, and a direct translation would be Fae, as far as I'm aware. That seems a bit weird though, and in context, Faenor would probably be better, but since that refers to such a major character already, I think that would almost probably be a sign of disrespect. So I'd keep Fae- as the beginning, but find something else to end it with. The best words I could find that seem relatively in keeping with the tone are thalion (dauntless/steadfast/strong man), maethor (warrior), callon (hero), bellas (bodily strength) or braig (wild/fierce).

I did look at Adnaic, but I don't know how relevant that would be unless he's a Black Nmenorean or connected to them in some way. The direct translation would be Man, and so personally I'd for Mannabr, with abr meaning strength/endurance.

As for Violet, if you're creating a new place, I think you have relatively free reign to do what you want with the name.
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
Enw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.