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Old 04-15-2002, 01:12 PM   #1
Tigerlily Gamgee
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Silmaril The Old Forest

Hello. I am currently re-reading The Two Towers and a thought came to my mind while reading "Treebeard".
Are the trees in the old forest that snag the hobbits Ents as well? Could they be the long-lost Entwives?
Perhaps I am missing something from another book or I simply do not remember, I am just curious to know. Thanks [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 04-15-2002, 01:21 PM   #2
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I always thought that Old Man Willow was a Huorn because Treebeard says that without Ents around Huorns can be rather aggressive toward things that go on two legs. Sorry I can't give an exact quote I don't have the books with me.
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Old 04-15-2002, 02:32 PM   #3
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Silmaril

old man willow doesn't seem quite entish to me, i'm not sure. but at the start of fotr sam says in the pub that someone (i forget who) saw a tree that walked on the moors or something. maybe that could be an entwife? treebeard does say that they would like the shire, i think.
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Old 04-15-2002, 02:38 PM   #4
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Didn't sam's cousin hal see an ent? At the beginning of FOTR sam says that his cousin saw a tree that walked around. Was that an ent? Entwife?
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Old 04-15-2002, 05:44 PM   #5
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Silmaril

Actually, one thing that did disappoint me was that they did not resolve the Entwives. I thought that, in the beginning, when the hobbits went through the forest the "seemed alive" that those might turn out to be the Entwives...but nooooo! LOL. But I believe that the mystery of the Entwives is one that have stumped many of us (including me...although I am only fourteen, so...), but I believe that may have been Tolkien's intention, because he was so good at resolving so many other parts of the story. Either he decided to resolve the Entwives and never got to, or he intended us to have conversations about it, as we do (if he did, then he is even MORE brilliant than even we worshippers give him credit for).
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Old 04-15-2002, 06:40 PM   #6
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There was mention of an ent-like creature in the beginning of FotR, but remember that they were drinking at the time, and it was only a rumor...
I always figured Old Man Willow was a hurorn, or something similar. I have read smewhere (trying to remember where and failing miserably) that Tlokein mentioned that he did not know if the ents ever found the entwives, but suspects that they did not. Bummer
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Old 04-15-2002, 09:01 PM   #7
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Yes, I'd always thought of the trees of the Old Forest as being more like rogue trees (Huorns if you will) than Ents proper. At least I *hope* they weren't Entwives, considering how malevolent they were - even if Treebeard et al found them again, think about what an unpleasant surprise that would be for them. (Wandlimb certainly got cranky over the past few millennia, didn't she?)
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Old 04-16-2002, 12:23 AM   #8
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Concerning the fate of the entwives:

Quote:
I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429-3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin (vol. II p. 79 refers to it2). They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult unless experience of industrialized and militarized agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know.
That is Tolkien in Letter 144, it is a long and interesting letter for anyone that hasn't read it yet.

Also, the Old Forest and Fangorn are the last remaining pieces of the ancient forest that used to cover all of the land between the two. It would be only natural for the trees in the Old Forest to be similar to those in Fangorn, so hourns they may have been. Also it is stated that trees become more and less entish over the years, waking up and going to sleep all the time.

One reason Old Man Willow could be seen as a huorn could be because he was aggressive and tried to kill the hobbits, adding to his agressive nature would be all the past transgressions against him. The wars from the nearby Downs and the hedge war with the Shire would have made Old Man Willow a grumpy gus.

There is other material out there concerning the Old Forest, if you want to know more, I suggest taking a look.
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Old 04-16-2002, 06:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
"I thought that, in the beginning, when the hobbits went through the forest the "seemed alive" that those might turn out to be the Entwives...but nooooo! LOL. But I believe that the mystery of the Entwives is one that have stumped many of us (including me...although I am only fourteen, so...), but I believe that may have been Tolkien's intention, because he was so good at resolving so many other parts of the story"
I think the huorns in the Old Forest were not Entwives. If you read a description of them, they are bent and brown, resembling 'their' trees, which were ones that flowered and bore fruit. I also think that the entwivfe question was supposed to be the topic of speculation and not of knowledge, because there is a chance that they could have gone to the vastness of the East, but not the South (too much of Sauron's influence there), an area which is not described or dealt with in any significant amount.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Halbarad ]
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Old 04-16-2002, 02:08 PM   #10
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I always thought that Old-Man Willow was a Huorn, and that many of the trees of the Old Forest were Hurons too. I've heard many on this board saying that what Hal (Sam's cousin was it?) saw was an Entwife, but there's no reason to think so. What an Entwife would be doing up therein the (far) North? Last time the Entwives were seen was East of the Anduin, North of the Dead Marshes. That's a long way to the Shire. Sorry to say that but the Entwives may very well never be seen again. Now I'm talking like Treebeard in "Many Partings"!
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Old 04-17-2002, 06:47 PM   #11
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I must be under a mistaken impression. I always kind of thought that huorns were what they were because of the influence of the Ents. If there were Ents there, would the hobbits there have known about it? What about Tom Bombadil? He talked of much for a long time to the boys but when Merry and Pip met Treebeard, they knew nothing of Ents, so Tom must not have mentioned them. Therefore, I think that there weren't Ents in the Old Forest. I definitely don't think they were Entwives but I would like to know who the Ent at the beginning was. I think that Sam's cousin really saw it. It makes me sad to think of the Ents and the Entwives. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
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Old 04-17-2002, 08:26 PM   #12
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Aaahhh...I just read the story of the Entwives. Such a sorrowful tale. I wish I could have read about some sort of reunion but alas, it was never to be. The Ents were always such a glint in Tolkien's eye, a race of many long tales, to be sure. I respect and admire them, root and branch. They portray the majesty of the Earth of Middle Earth. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 04-19-2002, 01:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
I always kind of thought that huorns were what they were because of the influence of the Ents
Weren't the Huorns plain Ents who spent too much time idle among trees, and ended becomeing like trees (apart from appearance)?
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