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Old 04-06-2002, 07:29 AM   #1
lathspell
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Sting Bilbo & Gollum

I just did some checking in the Hobbit and the LotR and now I've got a question.

Gandalf tells in 'The Shadow of the Past' the history of Gollum. Gollum was a hobbit-kind of creature before he gained the One Ring.

Quote:
'Long after the fall of Isildur, but still very long ago, there lived by the banks of the Great River on the edge of Wilderland a clever-handed and quiet-footed little people. I guess they were of hobbit-kind; akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors...'
Quote:
'There was a great deal in the background of their minds and memories that was very similar. They understood one another remarkably well, very much better than a hobbit would understand, say, a Dwarf, or an Orc, or even an Elf.'
So, most likely Gollum was of hobbit-kind. Bilbo of course is a hobbit... so my question is: why doesn't Gollum know what Bilbo when he sees him on the bank, and not even when he recalls memories of old times when he hadn't got the Ring yet?
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Old 04-06-2002, 07:55 AM   #2
Uruviel
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Sting

Um......I dunno.....thats a good question....
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Old 04-06-2002, 07:56 AM   #3
Sdhrs
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Sting

The only reason I can imagine is that after nearly 500 years that Gollum spent with the ring as his only "lifemate", he might have forgotten what he once was and were he came from and so on. As it says, the ring "poisoned" his mind, and maybe it also made him forget everything he knew while "Smeagol" developed into "Gollum". That's how I explain it to myself.
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Old 04-06-2002, 08:10 AM   #4
Starbreeze
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Silmaril

It is my theory that Gollum was a hobbit but at a different level of evolution, so his kind probably didn't lokk like Bilbo and his kind.
Because Gollum had the ring and his life went on for so long in 'suspended time', he never evolved, where as all the rest of his kind evolved into the kind of hobbit that Bilbo was, or maybe his kind died out, and another hobbit like creature became the hobbits we know and love today?

Anyway, that is my theory as to your question. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Probably all wrong but at least I had a go.
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Old 04-06-2002, 08:23 AM   #5
Starbreeze
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Silmaril

Oh, maybe I had better describe it as 'suspended evolution' for the sake of this post, I confuse myself too easily.

And also I think it's becoz Gollum is really a different creature to the Smeagol who crawled triumphantly into the cave with the ring. The ring turned him into a totally different thing - personality (ish) and everything. The ring made him forget those memories of his past because they did'nt suit its purposes.

Just another theory! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 04-06-2002, 12:09 PM   #6
lathspell
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Sting

Thanks for the replies, but I already thought of these things and they seem highly unlikely. As for the theory of Gollum not recalling his 'youth' and in this way not knowing what Bilbo is: he does recall memories of his youth, for example, when Frodo asks him the riddle about the eggses...

Quote:
'But suddenly Gollum remembered thieving from nests long ago, and sitting under the river bank teaching his grandmother, teaching his grandmother to suck - "Eggses!" he hissed. "Eggses it is!"'
He remembers alot after time, but still there is no sign of him knowing what Bilbo is, so I think it wasn't this theory that made it so that he didn't know Bilbo.

As for the evolutionary theory - I thought of that too, but I reckoned the 570 years (the time of Deagol finding the Ring and Smeagol taking it from him till Bilbo comes down the lake) is far too short to create such a great change in the appearance of hobbits. Evolution goes slowly, it'll take ten thousands of years to get such differences. If you look at one of the old Romans of 2000 years ago you clearly see that (s)he's is human.

Thanks for your theories, but in my opinion it's a bit more complicated than that. Please feel free to try again with other theories.
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Old 04-06-2002, 01:37 PM   #7
Tim Prichard
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Bilbo was of a different breed of hobbit. He had evolved from the old hobbits of the Anduin and moved ti the shire. Gollum was of the old race and therefore didn't recognize Bilbo's race. Look at the differences in the names: Bilbo of the shire and Meriodiac of the Brandywine. The differences in their body structure come from the place that they lived. Simple hobbit evolution.
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Old 04-08-2002, 08:35 AM   #8
Haldir
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Sting

well, you already said all my thoughts but I
got one more "may-be-theory":
Smeagol was a hobbit from the Anduin,
Bilbo was a hobbit from the Shire, Hobbiton,
Smeagol didn't know where's the Shire so I
can guess he never been there.
Gandalf said that the Shire is the only place
he saw hobbits, and if there were hobbits in
the Anduin at the years 3430-3440~ of the
seconed age, Isildur would discover them, and
if they were there later, some other king of
Gondor would discover them.
Unless there weren't real hobbits, Gondor knew
those halflings, there were even some poems
about those halflings.
Smeagol was some kind of halfling, but he was
no hobbit, because the ONLY real hobbits were
living in the Shire.
That's why the people of Gondor were never at
the Shire but still knew the halflings.
That's why Sneagol never saw hobbits, but he
wasn't scared of them, because they've must
reminded him his former friends... halflings !
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Old 04-09-2002, 07:37 AM   #9
Orodhromeus
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Sting

In the prologues of LotR, it is mentioned that 3 types of Hobbits exist: Harfoots (lived in highlands), Stoors (lived in riversides) and Fallohides (lived in woodlands). The Shire Hobbits were all Harfoots, though there is some Stoor & Fallohide blood in them. Bilbo & Frodo were Harfoots, Merry & Pippin were probably a mix of Harfoot & Fallohide. And Gollum/Smagol was a Stoor.
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