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Old 02-26-2003, 03:29 PM   #1
Peri
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Silmaril The children of the king and queen

I was just thinking to myself about Arwen and Aragorn. Since Aragorn is a human, and Arwen is one of the peredhil, what would their children be like? What would their lifespans be? Would they maybe have pointed ears? Would they be more elf-like or more human? Just curious. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Old 02-27-2003, 01:09 AM   #2
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Very much human.
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Old 02-27-2003, 09:09 AM   #3
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What about Dior?
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Old 02-27-2003, 09:44 AM   #4
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100% mortal but not 100% Man. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:50 AM   #5
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Old 02-27-2003, 11:05 AM   #6
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Tolkien never said whether his Elves, or Hobbits, for that matter, had pointed ears.

Maybe they would have the same choice as did Elrond and Elros - and Arwen and Elrond...?
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Old 02-27-2003, 11:16 AM   #7
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Actually, in Letters, he definitely stated that hobbits have pointed ears.
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Old 02-27-2003, 11:38 AM   #8
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And, at some point, he said that Elves have leaf-shaped ears. They may not be pointed leaves though. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:27 PM   #9
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I agree with Maerbenn. completly Mortal but maybe not completely Human. probably a lot taller than most humans and a longer life span. Remember Elros had a much longer life span than most even though he chose mortality.
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Old 03-03-2003, 02:13 PM   #10
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1420!

Mortal. But still very long-lived; Aragorn himself could expect a lifespan of about 300 years, and of course they come of a long-lived family on their mother's side [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. But no, they would get Aragorn's lifespan - substantial, but certainly not immortal.

Galadriel, now I'm trying to think of leaves that *aren't* pointy. I can't think of any. Of course, there are some pretty bizarre shapes out there but I don't think Tolkien meant that Elves had ears like maple leaves...ouch...
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Old 03-03-2003, 02:52 PM   #11
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Think mortal because both his parents were mortal at the time he was born.

He would be more men-like. But would he have a beard?

[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
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Old 03-03-2003, 03:02 PM   #12
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I always thought Dior was an elf.
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Old 03-03-2003, 03:20 PM   #13
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Do Elves not grow beards then?
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Old 03-03-2003, 03:46 PM   #14
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Tolkien

I'm not sure if an elf would have a beard or not. I've certainly never pictured one with a beard (except for maybe Cirdan due to his age). But I'm sure at least some facial hair would be apparent on them (well, let's hope not on the females [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]!).
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Old 03-03-2003, 03:51 PM   #15
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1420!

It some ware mentioned in the UT that the line of Dol Amroth had elvish trademarks.
And one of those trademarks is about elves having no beard.
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Old 03-04-2003, 03:47 PM   #16
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Cirdan did have a beard for sure. I think there has been a thread discussing this topic. Accor4ding to some source, I think it is the Osanwe-Kenta, elves could grow beard when they were in their 3rd cycle of life, whatever that means. Another theory appear in David Day's book from 1978, don't remember the name. There is a picture of Cirdan and some elves from Falas, all having small beards (!). But Day is usually wrong.
There is also a picture by Tolkien of Beleg with something that might be a beard.
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:02 AM   #17
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Yes-most Elves grow beards in theri third stage I think that Tolkien mentions that Mahtan, father of Nerdanel was an execption to this, he could grow a beard in his second. Plus he had reddish-brown hair. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] As did Nerdanel, Maedhros, Amrod and Amras and problably others.
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:17 AM   #18
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Elf = Human

The offspring of Aragorn and Arwen would have been all the way Man, because Arwen chose to me a Man. They probably lived a really long time, though.
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Old 03-06-2003, 08:27 AM   #19
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Our FAQ article on Half-Elven Mortality

Our FAQ article on Elven beards
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Old 05-11-2003, 06:59 PM   #20
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Arwen chose to be a man, did she Burra? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

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Old 05-11-2003, 09:47 PM   #21
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Now here is an interesting question...
When Elrond and Elros were born did they both have pointy ears?
And if they didn't did immeditately after Elrond decided to be an Elf for the rest of time did his ears grow pointy?
Or is it up to our imaginations?

(I could be totally off topic, but it is just something that I thought of while reading all of this, even though most of you were talking about beards)

[ May 12, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]
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Old 05-12-2003, 10:53 AM   #22
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Since no one can decide whether full elves have pointy ears, it's impossible to answer that question.
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Old 05-12-2003, 11:57 AM   #23
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Do Elves not grow beards then?
At least from D&D, I don't know if this was actualy in Tolkien, it said that Half-Elves can have beards, but no face hair for the full-Elves.

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Old 05-12-2003, 01:43 PM   #24
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ARWEN CHOSE TO BE A MAN??!! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] how does that work? i mean, if she chose ot be mortal, or a woman, but a man! sex change with the choice of elrond, I just don't get it, or maybe I'm makihng fun of you. Anyway, it appears that Cirdan had a beard, it says so in the appendix to LotR and in letters, and i think in UT, but I'm not sure.
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Old 05-12-2003, 02:53 PM   #25
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when elrond, frodo and co. met cirdan in the last chapter of RotK it says that cirdan had silver/white hair,and a long silvery beard.
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Old 05-12-2003, 03:08 PM   #26
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ARWEN CHOSE TO BE A MAN??!!
Man as in the race, human, not the gender. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

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Old 05-13-2003, 11:16 AM   #27
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1420!

yeah, that was a joke. Anyway, as for the beards, I believe that beards are a sex-linked trait and that would vcome from their father who had a beard because women almost never have facioal hair, so they probably would have had facial hair like ther father. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 05-13-2003, 01:49 PM   #28
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Reply to original post:

I did a project in science on the genetics of having poity ears. Only it was on Vulcans, not elves.
But I also think that their children would be very human, and have long lives, but not nearly as long as Aragorn's.
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Old 06-20-2003, 12:02 AM   #29
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I think Eldarion would have a very long lifespan. 300-350 years or so. After all, Elros chose to be a man, and he live to what, 400, 500 years? And he was only Arwen's uncle, whereas he's more removed from Aragorn, but Aragorn still gets a huge lifespan.
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Old 06-20-2003, 06:03 AM   #30
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Hail and well met, Ardolon. Have fun being dead [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. I think that Eldarion and his siblings would have had a longer lifespan than Aragorn's because their mother was still Elven. She chose mortality, but her *pointy* ears didn't disappear.
But if a full Elf and a Human had a child, would that child be mortal or immortal? Or would s/he have a right to choose?
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Old 06-20-2003, 09:27 AM   #31
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Silmaril

Somewhere in HoME Tolkien has Manwe state that any person with Mortal blood, no matter how much, is automatically subject to the Gift of Men 'unless given another doom'.

The power to choose between the Gift and immortality was a special grace appointed to Earendil and Elwing, their children and Elrond's children for certain. I doubt it would have been extended to Arwen and Aragorn's children. It certainly was not granted to Half-Elven of other lines, (such as the Princes of Dol Amroth).

Dior was thus Mortal, though he undoubtedly would have proved very long lived had he not have been murdered by the Sons of Feanor.

Half-Elven combine the traits and gifts of Men and Elves. The choice effects only their ultimate destiny it does not change their hybrid nature. Thus Arwen would not loose her pointy ears, (assuming she has them) or the powers inherited from her Elven ancestors.

Aragorn, dispite the many generations seperating him from Elros, retains a number of Elvish traits including his power of healing. Though undoubtedly Mortal the same will certainly be true of his children by Arwen.
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Old 06-20-2003, 11:59 AM   #32
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Thanks, I am having fun being dead. Anyway, even for those that have a choice, like Arwen, the choice of mortality applies to all your decendents, as well as yourself. Thus the kings of Numenor after Elros were mortal, because his choice was irrevocable. Now if Arwen had chosen to be of Elf kind, but still married Aragon then Eldarion may well have had a choice. Then again, he is a decendent of Elros, so he might not have, either. I'm not sure.
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Old 06-29-2003, 04:57 PM   #33
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Silmaril

They would have been mortal, and long lived. They would probably also be way more beautiful than normal men
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Old 06-29-2003, 05:01 PM   #34
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I don't think that Arwen would have married Aragorn if she had chosen to remain "Elfkind." Elves consider marriage a very holy thing. The death of a spouse usually results in the fading or the death of the surviving spouse. Aragorn would have eventually died, or Arwen would have eventually had to sail West, and that would have definitely killed her, considering how much she loved Aragorn.
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Old 06-30-2003, 06:46 AM   #35
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Eye

Quote:
Anyway, even for those that have a choice, like Arwen, the choice of mortality applies to all your decendents, as well as yourself.
Nope, Elrond chose to be elfish, his father made a choise to, so did Arwen. It is weird that it stopped with Arwen anyway. I think it's because Elrond and his father married elvesn and Arwen a mortal men. The lifespan was between 300-400. Could be more. I think that you could compare him with the men from Numenor. Taller than regular, living longer than man these days.

As for the beards, the only elf known in ME was Cirdan. A beard with an elf is a choise. If it is in their genes, they can choose for one, but they can also keep a smooth chin.

They would have ended up married anyway. Their love was too strong. If Arwen chose Immortalety, they would have married anyway. Love conquers all.

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Old 06-30-2003, 12:56 PM   #36
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hmm well wot i find interesting here is the assumption that aragorn (or is it dior ur talking about?) has a lifespan of 300-350yrs...well obviously he didnt, cos he felt old age coming upon him at about 210 (or 190, it differs depending on lookin in the tale of aragorn and arwen - i think, i can remember- or looking at the timeline, im going by the timeline) and gave up his life. and its dwindling, so his children i think will have even shorter lives, tho obviously longer than those of ordinary mortals
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Old 07-01-2003, 02:48 PM   #37
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I think the same thing will happen with Aragorn's descendants as what happened with the descendants of the Numenoreans. Their lifespans steadily decreased, and I think the same thing will happen with Aragorn's descendants until their lifespans are the same as normal Men.
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