The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-13-2003, 09:09 AM   #1
Veon
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Posts: 15
Veon has just left Hobbiton.
Thumbs up New Swedish translation, finally!

The publishing house which owns the rights for Lord of the Rings in Swedish has finally decided to make a new translation of the trilogy! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Haha, this is like Christmas Eve...

Hopefully they will publish the appendices with ROTK - for some unknown reason they were published separately in Sweden, which means that most Swedish readers have never even heard of them...

The new edition will be in stores in 2004.

Haha! Great!

Anders
__________________
Tule rato alcarinqua laire, / helwa-ahyala ve falmali
culde nandar vaita áre-faire / ar nu aldar liltar ehteli.
Veon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2003, 09:21 AM   #2
Jurion
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 85
Jurion has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Read the English version, it's much better than any translation could ever be.
Jurion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2003, 09:24 AM   #3
Veon
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Posts: 15
Veon has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

You're actually saying that no books should ever be translated? Strange point of view.

Anders
__________________
Tule rato alcarinqua laire, / helwa-ahyala ve falmali
culde nandar vaita áre-faire / ar nu aldar liltar ehteli.
Veon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2003, 09:32 AM   #4
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,850
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

No. He was saying "The original language the book was written in is alwas the best to read it in." If you can read it in the original language, it's recommended, basically.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2003, 09:42 AM   #5
Veon
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Posts: 15
Veon has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Then what's the point? Shall we or shall we not translate books?

Do you know that in the present Swedish translation it's Merry killing the Witch-king?

Anders

[ February 13, 2003: Message edited by: Veon ]
__________________
Tule rato alcarinqua laire, / helwa-ahyala ve falmali
culde nandar vaita áre-faire / ar nu aldar liltar ehteli.
Veon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2003, 10:34 AM   #6
DaughterofVana
Wight
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: twirling contentedly in a flower-filled field
Posts: 136
DaughterofVana has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I agree. If I had the ability I would not hesitate at all to read "Les Misarables" in French, because that is what Hugo intended. Tolkien, being an Englishman, intended for his book(s) to be read in English because it is his mother tongue, and no matter how well we can speak other languages (or make up our own!) that is always the one that we come back to and the one we feel the most comfortable with. Not that I am opposed to reading translations--please do not think that. All I am saying is that, when a book is translated from one language to another, certain discrepencies in the words/diction/flow of the story itself are bound to arise. Though the phrase "She was tall, lithe, and blond" could be translated into about every language, if one translation would say "She was tall, skinny, and yellow-haired" it wouldn't have the same effect on the reader, because certain words have certain double-meanings to certain people. My example is poor, but my point still stands: if you have the ability, read the book in the toungue it was written in, in order to fully grasp the author's intention. On the other hand, if you are not comfortable with English (or French, or German, or Italian, or whatever), by all means read the translation. A good book is a good book, no matter what language it is written in.

-'Vana
__________________
"There is a kind of happiness and wonder that makes you serious. It is too good to waste on jokes."

Hi! Did you miss me?
DaughterofVana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2003, 01:43 PM   #7
Jurion
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 85
Jurion has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

No, I'm not opposed to translating books Veon. I think it's really a good thing because it opens the diverse literary world up to people who don't speak every language in the world.

But as Legolas said,
Quote:
No. He was saying "The original language the book was written in is alwas the best to read it in." If you can read it in the original language, it's recommended, basically.
I completely agree with this.
Jurion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2003, 06:21 AM   #8
Eärendil
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles)
Posts: 562
Eärendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Veon, where did you get this information from?

I agree, Legolas. I prefer to read books in its original language. Things always get lost in the translation. Details, "feelings" and so on.
Though, when I first read LOTR I was 9, and I doubt I would have understood it in English by then. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (I read it in Swedish.)
Personally I am very happy to hear that a new Swedish translation of it is being published soon, because the one we have is CRAP, CRAP, CRAP!
And if that wasn´t enough the translator hated the books, thought they were very silly, childish (and more), and hated Tolkien and his family as well. Hm....

Now, what I fear is that I will discover that the new translation is almost as bad as the old one..

[ February 14, 2003: Message edited by: Eärendil ]
__________________
Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.
Eärendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2003, 02:22 PM   #9
Ailios
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Forochel
Posts: 28
Ailios has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Good news. Do you who the translator is?
I hope they will include decent maps as well.
__________________
Ailios
Ailios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2003, 08:24 PM   #10
Veon
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Posts: 15
Veon has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

There is some information (in Swedish) at the publisher's (P.A. Norstedt & sons) website, http://www.panorstedt.se/Pressrum_Ou...32&ProductID=0.

The translators are Erik Andersson (Nick Hornby, James Ellroy, Jeff Noon, Zadie Smith, Flann O'Brien, Patricia Cornwell) and a poet, Lotta Olsson Anderberg, who most people know from her daily political poems in the newspaper Expressen.
A friend of mine says he read in some newspaper yesterday that Erik Andersson is a something of a Tolkien expert, although I cannot confirm that.

Let's hope their translation will be better than Åke Ohlmarks' interpretation...

And if the translation is bad, then we can just stick to the English version. After all it's quite simple to read - maybe simpler than Ohlmarks' complicated Swedish version. Anyone who masters Ohlmarks' version won't have any problems with Tolkien's version.

Anders
__________________
Tule rato alcarinqua laire, / helwa-ahyala ve falmali
culde nandar vaita áre-faire / ar nu aldar liltar ehteli.
Veon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2003, 10:56 AM   #11
Ithildin
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 11
Ithildin has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I really hate to hear the norwegian names and places in the books!!! it's just so....bad...really!
[img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]


the english verson is the best [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Ithildin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2003, 05:37 PM   #12
Veon
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Posts: 15
Veon has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
I really hate to hear the norwegian names and places in the books!!! it's just so....bad...really!
Hmm?
__________________
Tule rato alcarinqua laire, / helwa-ahyala ve falmali
culde nandar vaita áre-faire / ar nu aldar liltar ehteli.
Veon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 11:50 AM   #13
Eärendil
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles)
Posts: 562
Eärendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Well, for example: Fylke (the Shire) means landscape (?) in Norweigan, or so I have heard.
Erik Andersson...hm...I have heard he is a good translator. Sounds positive. *thumbs up*
__________________
Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.
Eärendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 01:11 PM   #14
Veon
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Posts: 15
Veon has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Well, for example: Fylke (the Shire) means landscape (?) in Norweigan, or so I have heard.
Erik Andersson...hm...I have heard he is a good translator. Sounds positive. *thumbs up*
Well, since Norwegian, Swedish and Danish share most of the vocabulary and the grammar (it's the spelling and pronounciation that differs) I don't really see the problem with "Fylke" for the Shire. It's not in the everyday vocabulary of Swedish, but it definitely means something.

My Oxford dictionary says the following about "shire": "(old use) a county (now used in the names of some counties in Britain, for example Hampshire, Yorkshire)" indicating that the word is not in use but still has a recognized meaning.

Therefore "Fylke" is a good translation for "the Shire" (although "the Shire" is definite while "Fylke" is indefinite, else it would have been "Fylket").
If Ohlmarks would have translated "the Shire" "Provinsen", "Landskapet", "Landet" or "Länet" it would probably have sounded just silly. "Häradet" or "Hundaret" would have worked, though.

Personally I hope the new translators keep most of Ohlmarks' names and concentrate on retranslating the text and correcting the flaws (and in this Tolkien's own examples can guide them: "Ford of Bruinen = Björnavad! Archet = Gamleby (a mere guess, I suppose, from ’archaic’?) Mountains of Lune (Ered Luin) = Månbergen; Gladden Fields (in spite of discr. in I. 62) = Ljusa Slätterna, & so on" from Letters (1981, p. 263f)).

Anders

[ February 19, 2003: Message edited by: Veon ]
__________________
Tule rato alcarinqua laire, / helwa-ahyala ve falmali
culde nandar vaita áre-faire / ar nu aldar liltar ehteli.
Veon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 01:16 PM   #15
-Culavariel-
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

i agree that the books are better read in their original language... but i mean, if books weren't translated at all there wouldn't be as many people who could read them... and yeah...
to veon:
äntligen att dom kommer ut... hehe... det är ju helt sjukt att dom inte gav ut eftertexten i samma bok... varför inte??? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]inte för att eftertexten är sådär jättebra men...
I think you should try reading the books in english... cuz they ARE much better... and i mean one can always try... what i HATE is when they change the names of people and places... like hobbits = hober, the shire = fylke.... WHY, WHY, WHY???? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

-culavariel-
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 04:29 PM   #16
Guinevere
Banshee of Camelot
 
Guinevere's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,707
Guinevere is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Sting

Of course translations are necessary for all those whose knowledge of English isn't sufficient to read the original.

But it is my opinion, that especially in the case of LotR it's really worthwhile trying to read the original! Tolkien has such a rich, beautiful language (Not at all like everyday-English) and no translation, no matter how well done, can do justice to the original. (Though I don't know the Swedish Translation, my mothertongue being German.)

I think that you people in Scandinavia are all rather good in English, so this shouldn't really be a problem?? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Please also see my thread "Tolkien Translations" on the same topic! Thank you!
__________________
Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat
our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!
Guinevere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 05:09 PM   #17
Veon
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Posts: 15
Veon has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
(Though I don't know the Swedish Translation, my mothertongue being German.)
To put it short: Ohlmarks adds an adjective to every noun and an adverb to every adjective.

Examples:
"six meals a day" -> "sex vällagade måltider om dagen" i.e. "six well-cooked meals a day"

"now they avoid us with dismay and are becoming hard to find" -> "även nuförtiden söker de med alla tecken till skräck undfly alla möten med vår ras och har överhuvud blivit svårare att finna" i.e. "even nowadays they try with all signs of fear to flee all encounters with our race and have at all become harder to find".

"the sunrise" -> "morgonens flammande prakt" i.e. "the flaming splendour of the morning".

(I apoligise if my English is bad, I just try to do my best :-)

Nuff said. Examples from this translation analysis made by a linguistics student at the University of Lund. In Swedish, though.

I have read the books in both English and Swedish, and nowadays, when people say that the books are hard to read in Swedish, I recommend them to try the English version, since the language of the books is so much simpler in English...

Anders
__________________
Tule rato alcarinqua laire, / helwa-ahyala ve falmali
culde nandar vaita áre-faire / ar nu aldar liltar ehteli.
Veon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 05:01 PM   #18
Guinevere
Banshee of Camelot
 
Guinevere's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,707
Guinevere is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Silmaril

Well, that was interesting to read, Veon! (I even read a part of the Swedish Translation alalysis you gave as a link (I understand most of it, since I can also read and speak Norwegian)
In this case where the "old" translator preferred his own fancy to the actual words of Tolkien, a new translation will really be a good thing!

I just hope for you that they don't make the same mistake as with the new German translation (by W.Krege)!

In fact there existed quite a good translation in German (M.Carroux), but the Publishing house thought it necessary to "modernize" Tolkien. The new translation is disastrous!! Not only does it ruin the special atmosphere of Middle Earth when the hobbits speak a modern slang (eg Sam calling Frodo "Chef") but often the translator just tried to be "original" and different from the old translation. (eg "his voice was like music" = "seine Stimme klang wie ein Orchester" and other such nonsense.

The worst is, that in the bookshops you find now practically only the new translation, so any new readers of Tolkien are bound to buy this. My sons have also got it (as a gift) and I just hope that some day, when their knowledge of English has improved, they will come back to Tolkien and read the original!
__________________
Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat
our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!
Guinevere is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:42 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.