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Old 10-09-2003, 12:57 PM   #81
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*bump*
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Old 10-09-2003, 01:41 PM   #82
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Sting

Tolkien was referring to a common dislike of what he calls "...meddling with the Primary World, or such small glimpses of it as are familiar to them." He was describing a dislike of fantastic literature on the basis of its failure faithfully to portray the world in which we live: the very "arresting strangeness" which he regarded as a natural advantage of the form.

As one might expect, he says this in his lecture and essay On Fairy-Stories (1939), in which he explores various perceptions of 'fantasy' and challenges the common view that fairy-stories are products of escapism.

[ October 09, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rűdh ]
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Old 10-09-2003, 02:40 PM   #83
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Right you are, Old Boy."On Fairie Tales" it is. People dislike fantasy, presuming it to be mere dreaming and hallucination which lack the Art and control of fantasy. In other words, they don't like something which challenges their familiar, preconceived little worlds.

You have the floor. Or the thread. Or the challege. As it may be.
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Old 10-09-2003, 03:00 PM   #84
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I take up your cast gage with pleasure, Bethberry. How did 'Beren' meet 'Luthien'?
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Old 10-13-2003, 07:13 AM   #85
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They met, if Carpenter has his facts right, Squatter, at a sort of rooming house for orphans. 37 Duchess Road, Birmingham.

Tolkien's guardian, Father Francis, believed he and his brother were not happy with his Aunt B, and so Father Francis found them lodgings with Mrs. Faulkner, who gave musical soirees which some of the Fathers attended.

On the first floor, beneath the two boys' bedroom, lodged a pretty young orphan girl with some talent at the piano. Edith Bratt.

He was sixteen, she was nineteen. What more need be said?

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Old 10-13-2003, 07:24 AM   #86
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Sting

That's what I was looking for. Your turn.
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Old 10-13-2003, 07:57 AM   #87
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Thank-you, Squatter.

Tolkien had a very specific sense of Magic. What was it? (And, to be fair, I should say I am thinking particularly of the Letters here.)
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Old 10-20-2003, 12:57 PM   #88
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Silmaril

In his draft of a letter to Naomi Mitchison (Nr. 155), Tolkien says
Quote:
A difference in the use of 'magic' in this story is that it is not to be come by by 'lore' or spells; but is in an inherent power not possessed or attainable by Men as such.
He adds that magic as used by Gandalf is artistic, not intended to deceive. Is that what you have in mind?
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Old 10-20-2003, 01:39 PM   #89
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Boots

Good digging! That's not the specific letter I had in mind, but it will do. Here is the passage I was thinking of, from Letter 131 to Milton Waldman (p. 146 in my paperback edition):

Quote:
I have not used 'magic' consistently, and indeed the Elven-queen Galadriel is obliged to reonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word [ie magic] both for the devices and operations of the Enemy,and for those of the Elves. I have not, because there is not a word for the latter (since all human stories have suffered the same confusion). But the Elves are there (in my tales) to demonstrate the difference. Their 'magic' is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence). And its object is Art not Power, sub-creation not domination and tyrannous re-forming of Creation. The 'Elves' are 'immortal' , at least as far as this world goes: and hence are concerned rather with the griefs and burdens of deathlessness in time and change, than with death. The Enemy in successive forms is always 'naturally' concerned with sheer Domination, and so the Lord of magic and machines; but the problem: that this freightful evil can and does arise from an apparently good root, the desire to benefit the world and others--speedily and according to the benefactor's own plans--is a recurrent motive.
And so, Ms Telcontar, I pass the challenge on to you.
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Old 10-20-2003, 02:05 PM   #90
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Silmaril

Here's a rather straightforward question: Which of Tolkien's children were able to be with him when he died?
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Old 11-01-2003, 07:03 PM   #91
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My memory might fail me, but I think it was his daughter, Pricilla Anne...
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Old 11-02-2003, 12:07 AM   #92
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Silmaril

That's half of the right answer, Telchar...
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
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Old 11-02-2003, 09:02 AM   #93
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OK - it Might be that someone else can have the other half of the answer because I seriously do not have a clue... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ November 02, 2003: Message edited by: Telchar ]
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Old 11-03-2003, 01:51 AM   #94
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Silmaril

Ah, nice try, Telch! Unfortunately not Michael - Carpenter writes in the biography:
Quote:
It so happened that Michael was on holiday in Switzerland and ______ in France...
Two more guesses - good thing Tolkien had only four children, eh?! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 11-03-2003, 08:38 AM   #95
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Michael was on holiday in Switzerland and Christopher in France....but John and Priscilla were able to come down to Bournemouth to be with him. The first reports were optomistic but then a chest infection developed and he died shortly after. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

(I feel a bit guilty trailing in with this at the tail end after Telchar got the first half right......!)
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:35 AM   #96
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Silmaril

All's fair in love and quiz, Child - and welcome to the thread! You're right, of course - we look forward to your question.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
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Old 11-03-2003, 03:33 PM   #97
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How about this?

Tolkien began the translation of three medieval poems; part of his work went back as early as the 1920s. These poems were published posthumously in 1975, although Tolkien himself felt they had never been completed to his own satisfaction.

What are the names of the three poems?
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Old 11-03-2003, 03:36 PM   #98
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Child,

Would you be referring to Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo?
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Old 11-03-2003, 04:46 PM   #99
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Bethberry,

Whoa! You're fast. That took exactly three minutes! Is that a record?

(Maybe we should give out "prizes".)

You have the floor now....

Child
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:21 AM   #100
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That's not a record [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:57 AM   #101
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Boots

Thank you,Child. I just happened to be online when you posted your challenge, and, well, I do love literature. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Now, for the next one:

What position or job did Tolkien hold in the 11th Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers, "B" company?
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:49 AM   #102
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Silmaril

He was commissioned as a second lieutenant.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
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Old 11-06-2003, 11:01 AM   #103
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Boots

Ah, hmm. Esty, I wasn't thinking so much of his rank as what it was he did. Want to try again?
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Old 11-06-2003, 11:29 PM   #104
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Silmaril

He was the battalion signalling officer. Is that what you're looking for?

Carpenter says:
Quote:
...the prospect of dealing with words, messages, and codes was more appealing than the drudgery and responsibility of commanding a platoon. So he learnt Morse code, flag and disc signalling, the transmission of messages by heliograph and lamp, the use of signal-rockets and field-telephones, and even how to handle carrier pigeons...
[ November 07, 2003: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
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Old 11-07-2003, 08:01 AM   #105
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Boots

Indeed, Ms Telcontar, that was what I had in mind. Strikes me as almost cruelly prescient that he would have that job.

Ask on, Estelyn, ask on.
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:16 AM   #106
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Silmaril

Here's a nice bit of trivia I discovered - which American president's daughter wrote to Tolkien, asking him for an autograph?
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
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Old 11-13-2003, 08:26 AM   #107
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Silmaril

Anyone care to guess this answer? I know the source isn't quite as common as Carpenter's biography, but it's not difficult - there weren't really that many US presidents with daughters during the 60's! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
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Old 11-13-2003, 09:17 AM   #108
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Sting

OK - Kennedy's daughter ?
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Old 11-13-2003, 09:35 AM   #109
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

nope
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
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Old 11-13-2003, 10:50 AM   #110
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Well then, Nixon's? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-13-2003, 11:19 AM   #111
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

Again, I must regretfully answer "no". Keep going! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 11-13-2003, 11:31 AM   #112
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Lyndon Johnson's daughter?

(If it's not him, there's only one left [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )
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Old 11-13-2003, 11:51 AM   #113
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

Right president - daughter's name? [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 11-13-2003, 12:21 PM   #114
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Luci ?
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Old 11-13-2003, 12:23 PM   #115
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Gah, what do I know of US Presidents' daughters?! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Thanks to google, I know that he had two daughters, so I'll go for Lucy (Luci?). [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Edit: Double Gah! Spent too much time on Google! [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ November 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

Edit 2: Triple Gah! Wrong daughter.

Mind you, I hate to be pedantic, but the original question was:

Quote:
which American president's daughter wrote to Tolkien, asking him for an autograph?
requiring that the President, rather than his daughter be identified. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ November 14, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]
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Old 11-13-2003, 12:54 PM   #116
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

Both wrong - sorry, but even guessing has to produce the correct answer! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 11-13-2003, 02:00 PM   #117
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His other daugher, Ly(i)nda.
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Old 11-13-2003, 03:39 PM   #118
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

That's the one, Beren. Daniel Grotta-Kurska writes in his biography J.R.R.Tolkien, Architect of Middle Earth about the flood of mail that was sent to Tolkien:
Quote:
The letters came from such diverse places as the White House (President Johnson's daughter Lynda Bird asking for an autograph), royalty, composers wishing to set Tolkien's works to music, blind octogenerians, and prisoners.
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Old 11-14-2003, 07:32 AM   #119
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Ah.

What did Tolkien receive from the Queen in '72?
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Old 11-14-2003, 08:05 AM   #120
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He recieved the title CBE (= commander of the Order of the British Empire)
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