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Old 06-02-2004, 07:30 AM   #1
The Perky Ent
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White Tree Are They Rhinos?

Well, upon watching my 18 round of RotK, I realized something very odd. In the seen with Grond, there are these two weird creatures pulling it twords the gate. They look very much like Rhinos, because of their build and one hord. Then I thought, maybe it's a new breed Sauron made from Mumakil, like turning elves into orcs. Then I thought they were difformed Mumakil. But one thing I think I can say is that it comes from Harad or some non-West Middle Earth place. And since no one in the movie recognises it, and I can't remember it from the book, can someone inlighten me?

I guess I never saw it because of all of RotK, it's hard to remember one detail when so many cool things are going on
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:04 PM   #2
Elianna
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Tolkien

Yeah, they do kinda look like rhinos. It's certain that Sauron had them, maybe brought from Harad, but rised in Mordor, 'cause they're pulling Grond and there are no Haradrim around. They'd have to be VERY difformed mûmakil if at all, because the creatures which pulled Grond they're horns were for certain on the top of their heads, but the mûmakil's tusks are just very overgrown teeth (if we can assume that they're the same as elephants).

Maybe they're the M-E version of rhinos like mûmakil are the M-E version of elephants.
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:51 PM   #3
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It's safe to say that they aren't mûmakil, & equally safe to say that they are an invention of Peter Jackson & Co. They look cool, though.
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:15 PM   #4
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I asked the same question some time ago. Maybe you'll find what you want here:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=2968
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:46 PM   #5
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i have the "art of the Return of the king" book and in it some of the artists said that it was just an invention they created so they could have more creatures and not have the mumukhail pull Grond
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:28 PM   #6
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White Tree

Yeah. It's probably PJ being his creative self. However, I would like to know what he calls them. That's a question!
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Old 06-02-2004, 05:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
they are an invention of Peter Jackson & Co
Not entirely, Son of Númenor. As Elrond of Rivendell said in the thread to which Thorongil linked, Tolkien does refer to great beasts pulling Grond:


Quote:
Grond they named it, in memory of the Hammer of the Underworld of old. Great beasts drew it, orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it.
I don't think that Tolkien ever describes the beasts, so their appearance is pretty much a matter of interpretation. Personally, I think the designers did pretty well. They appear to be based on a prehistoric mammal called an Arsinoitherium which, despite its appearance is not related to the rhinoceros, but belongs to an extinct group.

Edit: Ah, found some pictures of the beasties
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Old 06-02-2004, 05:46 PM   #8
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Originally posted by Sir Saucepan:
"I don't think that Tolkien ever describes the beasts, so their appearance is pretty much a matter of interpretation."

Or sub-creation.
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Old 06-04-2004, 08:06 PM   #9
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Silmaril

I always thought they were Rhinos coming from far Harad.
I thought they were neatly done. They could have been the ancestors of the real rhinosorous.
However when I first watched the movie I already noticed them and I thought to myself "COOL!!!!"
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Old 06-13-2004, 05:07 PM   #10
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Not rhinos, but I`m sure they are related. Kinda like the Mumakil and elephants.
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Old 06-13-2004, 05:13 PM   #11
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Not rhinos, but I`m sure they are related. Kinda like the Mumakil and elephants.
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Old 06-29-2004, 10:11 AM   #12
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With regard to Saucepan man's post, only a few lines before that quote Tolkien refers specifically to the mumakil as "great beasts".

But still, if they really wanted ot have different creatures, why not go for John Howe's version of them, since he was one of the lead artists on the film? I don't have a pic on me, but in a drawing of his of the Siege of Gondor he has these huge things, like twisted great beats of burden (kind of an awesome ox, but without the "cowness" which might otherwise look a bit silly.cute ) - now those are far better creatures imho than our hornéd film-friends.
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