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Old 01-10-2009, 07:07 PM   #1
thewichtking
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1420! Why was Merry at the last battle?

ok in the rotk movie why is Merry at the last battle? i mean he was at the house of healers because he had stabbed the witch king so he got that black death stuff or what you-may-call it ooh and i don't remember Aragorn killing the mouth of sauron whats with that?

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Old 01-10-2009, 07:55 PM   #2
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1420!

please post i want answers
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:02 PM   #3
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Personally, I've only viewed the movies once (one time too many), and that several years ago, so I really can't help you.
This thread does, however, seemingly belong in the forum curiously titled "The Movies".
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:32 PM   #4
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Ha ha ha!
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:57 AM   #5
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The answer is: hobbits and villain-decapitation are cool.

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Old 01-11-2009, 07:18 AM   #6
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This is a movie topic, so I'm moving the thread to the appropriate forum. Please continue reading and discussing there - thanks!
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:08 AM   #7
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ok in the rotk movie why is Merry at the last battle? i mean he was at the house of healers because he had stabbed the witch king so he got that black death stuff or what you-may-call it ooh and i don't remember Aragorn killing the mouth of sauron whats with that?
Because it was in the manusscript.

Peter Jackson changed alot of things that was or wasn't in the book, and thats usually the way the story goes with movies based on books.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:34 AM   #8
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Probably he did not want to split up the Merry-Pippin duo, just as Sam-Frodo. They had just found each other after the battle at Minas Tirith and PJ wasn't going to separate them again.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:39 AM   #9
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I'm surprised *anyone* was left of of the last battle. I think, however, the reason to include Merry was to use his tie to Pippin to evoke yet more emotion...oh my, these two are such friends and what if they were to die? sniff

And no one but Merry would give a pip if Pip were lost...
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:41 AM   #10
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Part of the reason why Merry was there could also be to centralize the hobbit emotion. Keep Merry and Pippin together so that way there is no random panning to The Houses of Healing, which, actually, weren't in the original theatrical release. It's hard to have a main character in a place that doesn't really exist to movie goers.

As for Aragorn(which I now have to look at to make sure its spelled right, damn Tudor history) beheading the Mouth of Sauron, he needed to die. Who else better to kill him than Aragorn? Plus, as it has been said, it's the movie, it looks good.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:59 AM   #11
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1420!

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This is a movie topic, so I'm moving the thread to the appropriate forum. Please continue reading and discussing there - thanks!
thank you

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Old 01-11-2009, 11:37 AM   #12
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As for Aragorn(which I now have to look at to make sure its spelled right, damn Tudor history) beheading the Mouth of Sauron, he needed to die. Who else better to kill him than Aragorn? Plus, as it has been said, it's the movie, it looks good.
Sorry... but it looks AWFUL. It was during the PARLEY, for Christ's sake! If you kill an enemy ambassador during a parley, then you are no better then an Orc. In fact, you are worse. Even Orcs knew the rules, see what they cried to Aragorn when he stood above the gates in Helm's Deep:
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'Get down or we will shoot you from the wall,' they cried. 'This is no parley. You have nothing to say.'-LOTR, Helm's Deep
In the Books, the Mouth came forth, secure in his belief in Gondor's honor. And he was not mistaken:
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‘I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!’ he cried.
‘Where such laws hold,’ said Gandalf, ‘it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence. But no one has threatened you. You have naught to fear from us, until your errand is done- LOTR, The Black Gate opens.
The Movie Mouth was a naive guy, trusting the wannabe King (who only won the crown by bringing the green jelley to the Plennor) and the ragtag wizard (who so dearly loved to beat mad Denethor on the head with his staff). No wonder the Mouth got his head chopped off in the most treacherous fashion.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:54 AM   #13
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Sorry... but it looks AWFUL. It was during the PARLEY, for Christ's sake! If you kill an enemy ambassador during a parley, then you are no better then an Orc. In fact, you are worse. Even Orcs knew the rules, see what they cried to Aragorn when he stood above the gates in Helm's Deep:


In the Books, the Mouth came forth, secure in his belief in Gondor's honor. And he was not mistaken:


The Movie Mouth was a naive guy, trusting the wannabe King (who only won the crown by bringing the green jelley to the Plennor) and the ragtag wizard (who so dearly loved to beat mad Denethor on the head with his staff). No wonder the Mouth got his head chopped off in the most treacherous fashion.
thats true and kinda funny
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:45 PM   #14
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Sorry... but it looks AWFUL. It was during the PARLEY, for Christ's sake! If you kill an enemy ambassador during a parley, then you are no better then an Orc. In fact, you are worse. Even Orcs knew the rules, see what they cried to Aragorn when he stood above the gates in Helm's Deep:
Oh no, don't get me started. That's one of those incomprehensible scenes that make no sense in any dimension or reality. Aragorn loses all credibility right there. Like you said, Gordis, he becomes no better than the enemy. Certainly the history of war is rife with trickery and deceit, but this is ARAGORN, not Ulfang the Accursed, and killing the Tooth Decay of Sauron accomplishes nothing! Was PJ hoping the rabble would appreciate the death of one such horrible being, regardless of method? Have we sunk so low as a society that honour is meaningless? Maybe.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:02 PM   #15
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Did people whoop and holler when the head flew off? Then that's all there is to it. I don't want the film to be compromised for such people, but it's not about what I want - it's about how ridiculously successful the films were. Yes, many subtleties were lost in this version, but you had to expect that.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:14 AM   #16
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Well, they really took the whole "we captured and tortured Frodo" thing and laid it out there, hence giving Aragorn a reason to lose his temper (and he is very different from the book Aragorn, of course). Not a very great or convincing reason, because even the movie Aragorn was more restrained and thoughtful than that, but it worked visually, Eomer is right. And the Mouth wasn't really a guy, was he? He seemed more like a reanimated corpse - a direct extension of Sauron.

I personally didn't how he spoke with a very obvious foreign accent - Middle Eastern, was it? Guess I'm just sick of the "dark, barbaric foreigner" meme. Coupled with the "men of the West line," complete with terrible delivery from Viggo (an excellent Strider, imho, and a pretty bad King), it was just so blatant, there was no nuance. And I'm as big of a fan of dark, Other-izing tales as... um, other people?
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:46 AM   #17
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1420!

i always thought the mouth of sauron was a sorcerer in the service of sauron who came over from the east many, many years ago and honesty i don't Viggo um um i don't remember his last name right now you know who i'm talking about. anyway i dont think he did a good aragorn
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:01 PM   #18
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And the Mouth wasn't really a guy, was he? He seemed more like a reanimated corpse - a direct extension of Sauron.

I personally didn't how he spoke with a very obvious foreign accent - Middle Eastern, was it? Guess I'm just sick of the "dark, barbaric foreigner" meme. Coupled with the "men of the West line," complete with terrible delivery from Viggo (an excellent Strider, imho, and a pretty bad King), it was just so blatant, there was no nuance. And I'm as big of a fan of dark, Other-izing tales as... um, other people?
Actually, the Mouth of Sauron was a man, and a Black Numenorean at that, so his accent should have been Aussie like Faramir and Denethor.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:13 PM   #19
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The way they presented him the movies - there was just no context. He was a monster. And a scary one at that.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:03 PM   #20
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The way they presented him the movies - there was just no context. He was a monster. And a scary one at that.
Compare it with Orlando Bloom Legolas. When the first movie was shown I was in my sixth grade in an all-girl school. Everybody was just... crazy for that. And I found myself suddenly flocked by questions on what Legolas is supposed to be.

It's the movies, and... it's commercialized.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:40 PM   #21
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Orlando Bloom may have done more (both good and bad) for the popularity of The Lord of the Rings movie, book, and franchise, than anyone else.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:45 AM   #22
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Orlando is my boy. I wasn't a book fan when I went to see the first film, I hadn't gotten around to reading Tolkien at that point, so I was going "whoooo's that?" along with the rest of them. Although, the guy who was explaining everything to me wasn't as traumatized as you with your classmates - I bet. We were in our last year of high school, and he and i did end up seeing each other for a while... Hmmm. Maybe that's where it all began, actually, at that fateful FotR viewing!

Of course, poor Bloom had the worst lines ("a diversion" - I'm still giggling over that years later), which, in a way, is just as bad as the way they set up the Mouth of Sauron.

Or maybe not. The Mouth of Sauron did not provide any visual gratification.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:28 AM   #23
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where getting of the subject this thread is on merry
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:05 AM   #24
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where getting of the subject this thread is on merry
Slightly! Think that your thread, thewichtking, has been hijacked. Welcome to the Downs, by the way.

Anyway, in the Extended version of RotK, we get a brief moment in the Houses of Healing - far too little for me. Merry is no where to be seen, and so why he's not in the vanguard would be a mystery. For example, who would he speak with regarding 'those that have gone east to meet their Doom?' The healers? The Herbmaster? Ioreth?

Eowyn gets a moment with Faramir, and Merry would be a third wheel in that scene.

And so Merry is sent east.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:06 AM   #25
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where getting of the subject this thread is on merry
This is one of the hallmarks of discussion threads on the 'Downs. A very standard occurrence, actually. When the original discussion has run its course (and what more can be said of Merry being plopped indecorously down at the Black Gates on the whim of an egoistic director?), the discussion digresses into tangents.

Don't worry, it'll come around again. It sometimes takes four or five years, but someone will post on the original topic again.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:15 AM   #26
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Don't worry, it'll come around again. It sometimes takes four or five years, but someone will post on the original topic again.
You called?

I think it would be funny if, in an ode to Merry's pointless appearance at the battle of the Black Gate, they got him to show up at the Battle of Five Armies. It would be quirky, you know? Fans would love it.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:49 PM   #27
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You called?

I think it would be funny if, in an ode to Merry's pointless appearance at the battle of the Black Gate, they got him to show up at the Battle of Five Armies. It would be quirky, you know? Fans would love it.
Why not, but only together with Pip
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