The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Movies
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-06-2022, 11:13 AM   #401
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 358
Tar Elenion has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry View Post
I didn't "read" that as a racial statement because of the casting of a black actor and "ideopolitical messaging". I read it as typifying the harfoots' uneasy relationship with elves, all elves. There are several examples which show that the harfoots don't like or don't trust the elves but I haven't committed them to memory.

As for the elves, I "read" Galadriel's comment to Elrond that he has not been invited to the high table because that is for elf lords as suggesting the arrogance of elves (which is highly attested to in Tolkien's work) about Elrond's status as only half-elven. I suspect we will see Elrond earn his status as elf lord just as we will see the peoples of Middle-earth come together. very Tolkien that.
It was not the *Harfoots, nor *Galadriel.
One was a white boy southlander with a stereotypical 'alt-right' hair cut throwing out "racial slurs" (lifted from some fantasy franchise, that I am unfamiliar with) and using the "you people" line to a black man.

The other was an *elf-woman servant. I took it that as a pathetically ignorant breaking of the lore. But yeah it could be read with a focus on it as 'you are a half-breed'.
__________________
Tar-Elenion

Last edited by Tar Elenion; 09-06-2022 at 11:24 AM.
Tar Elenion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 11:17 AM   #402
Bęthberry
Cryptic Aura
 
Bęthberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,158
Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Viewed apart from Tolkien (which is hard to do in places), the story is... fine. . And the Harfeet are a positive delight.

Overall, my expectations have lowered slightly, but I enjoyed it, and will still watch the second episode when I get the chance. It works. It's fine - and I hope, when the plot gets its feet under it, it can graduate to "good".

hS
I agree that there were things well done. It is visually a delight. I liked the Harfoot tribe more than the hobbits in the Jackson movies because they appeared more anthropologically suitable and less cutesy nostalgic. And they were depicted as a tribe and not only as individuals.

Khazad Dum was stunning. It was good to see the dwarves depicted respectfully rather than comically (although I could have done without the belching and burping).They clearly have a well developed culture and I"m sure that will play into later episodes.

I"m not someone who was overly fond of the Jackson movies, shall we say, and I wasn't excited by the news of this series but having ignored the hype I found RoP something watchable.

And I'm glad to see you writing of things you enjoyed or thought were well done. I'd hate to see new potential members turned away by criticisms that are disdainfully expressed.

https://scontent.fymy1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...Kg&oe=631BD51D

EDIT: Attached a photo that Brian Sibley has posted on FB, of a carving of a bird and baby in stone decorations. It was presented in a session at the Tolkien Society's 2022 Oxonmoot by Ramsey Avery – Production Designer for TLOTR: TROP .
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

Last edited by Bęthberry; 09-06-2022 at 11:58 AM.
Bęthberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 11:47 AM   #403
Bęthberry
Cryptic Aura
 
Bęthberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,158
Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tar Elenion View Post
It was not the *Harfoots, nor was *Galadriel.
One was a white boy with a stereotypical 'alt-right' hair cut throwing out "racial slurs" (lifted from some fantasy franchise, that I am unfamiliar with) and using the "you people" line to a black man.

The other was an *elf-woman servant. I took it that as a pathetically ignorant breaking of the lore. But yeah it could be read with a focus on it as 'you are a half-breed'.
Yes, I know who you meant but yes I'm wrong he was Harfoot. The "white boy" is the son of the human Bronwyn who is the healer of the village of Tirharad and my son and I both think that his hair is deliberately designed to mask his ears. I didn't think of his hair as a stereotypical 'alt right' hair cut but then I didn't know there was such a hair cut. His friend Rowan is less trusting of elves than he is. It's a man/elf thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the half-elven Elrond plays out some similar anxieties as Spock does.

As for elf servants, all those whispy flowing robes confuse me and I've seen the episode but once. thanks for clarifying my mistakes.
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.
Bęthberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 12:08 PM   #404
William Cloud Hicklin
Loremaster of Annúminas
 
William Cloud Hicklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,299
William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
"Knife-ears" is a derogatory term for Elves taken from the Dragon Age series of videogames, in which they are an oppressed underclass (often servants).
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
William Cloud Hicklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 12:08 PM   #405
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 358
Tar Elenion has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry View Post
Yes, I know who you meant but yes I'm wrong he was Harfoot. The "white boy" is the son of the human Bronwyn who is the healer of the village of Tirharad and my son and I both think that his hair is deliberately designed to mask his ears. I didn't think of his hair as a stereotypical 'alt right' hair cut but then I didn't know there was such a hair cut. His friend Rowan is less trusting of elves than he is. It's a man/elf thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the half-elven Elrond plays out some similar anxieties as Spock does.

As for elf servants, all those whispy flowing robes confuse me and I've seen the episode but once. thanks for clarifying my mistakes.
The "white boy" with the "alt-right" hair using racial-slurs and "you people" to the black *Elf (Arondir) is not Theo the son Bronwyn it was Theo's friend. Rowan, if you are correct (I don't know what his name is).

Vulcan Elves now? Well, Arondir is sort of coming off that way so far.
__________________
Tar-Elenion

Last edited by Tar Elenion; 09-06-2022 at 12:12 PM.
Tar Elenion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 12:12 PM   #406
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 358
Tar Elenion has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
"Knife-ears" is a derogatory term for Elves taken from the Dragon Age series of videogames, in which they are an oppressed underclass (often servants).
And Tolkien had a perfectly good 'racial-slur' that the Easterlings (seemingly represented by these Southlanders) used for Elves...
__________________
Tar-Elenion
Tar Elenion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 01:07 PM   #407
William Cloud Hicklin
Loremaster of Annúminas
 
William Cloud Hicklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,299
William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
I do find it interesting that in the one part of Middle-earth in which Tolkien unmistakably placed POC, Harad, the showrunners have chosen to put white people.
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
William Cloud Hicklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 01:53 PM   #408
Huinesoron
Overshadowed Eagle
 
Huinesoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,775
Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
I do find it interesting that in the one part of Middle-earth in which Tolkien unmistakably placed POC, Harad, the showrunners have chosen to put white people.
The map flyover was a bit vague in that. I think it originally placed the "Southlands" label east of Mordor, then later zoomed out from the lower Anduin. I guess "south" is relative to Lindon?

hS
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera
Huinesoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 03:51 PM   #409
Bęthberry
Cryptic Aura
 
Bęthberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,158
Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tar Elenion View Post
The "white boy" with the "alt-right" hair using racial-slurs and "you people" to the black *Elf (Arondir) is not Theo the son Bronwyn it was Theo's friend. Rowan, if you are correct (I don't know what his name is).
So you call that blondeish hair a
Quote:
stereotypical 'alt-right' hair cut
. I can't see it, but as I said, I don't know there is such a stereotypical hair cut. I do see Theo's hair cut as a bit weird but the straw-haired cut is no big deal for me.

Rowan isn't highlighted in many of the cast lists but he is in one from (gulp) One Wiki to Rule them All. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Rowan_(Southlands)
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.
Bęthberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 05:08 PM   #410
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 358
Tar Elenion has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry View Post
So you call that blondeish hair a . I can't see it, but as I said, I don't know there is such a stereotypical hair cut. I do see Theo's hair cut as a bit weird but the straw-haired cut is no big deal for me.

Rowan isn't highlighted in many of the cast lists but he is in one from (gulp) One Wiki to Rule them All. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Rowan_(Southlands)
Yes. A stereotypical "alt-right" haircut. shorter at the side and back. Longer in the front.
I don't know why you think it was Theo that I was referring to when I noted the racist "knife-ears" and "you people" speech from the white boy.
Did the version you saw have Theo saying? Or are you just confused?

I did not say anything about the hair cut being "weird", I described the character.
So again white boy with alt-right hair cut using racially charged in a modern sense speech claimed to be racist ("you people") to a black man.
But no ideopolitical messaging.
__________________
Tar-Elenion

Last edited by Tar Elenion; 09-06-2022 at 05:31 PM.
Tar Elenion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 05:16 PM   #411
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,559
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
That's an alt-right hair cut? I thought it was Justin Bieber?

__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 05:33 PM   #412
Tar Elenion
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 358
Tar Elenion has just left Hobbiton.
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017...f-e27ecdf00000

How America's Alt-right Got Its Signature Hairstyle
A hairstyle that's shaved on the sides and long on top went from being a hipster affectation to a neo-fascist show of force.
__________________
Tar-Elenion
Tar Elenion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2022, 05:39 PM   #413
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,310
Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Aren’t we getting more than a bit far afield? Can we please move on?

Thank you.
__________________
Beleriand, Beleriand,
the borders of the Elven-land.
Mithadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:59 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.