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Old 02-27-2004, 12:13 AM   #1
The Perky Ent
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Silmaril Fate of Amandil

I ran a search on the topic and i didn't see anything, so correct me if i'm wrong, but i have reached a pondering thought. Did Amandil ever reach Valinor? If he did, did they ignore his request and sunk Nmenor anyway? Although his fate doesn't matter in the big picture, i'm sure Elendil would like to know where his father is! Could he reside in Valinor? Doubt it, but it's still a question. I guess it all depends on what the Valar think. In my opinion, they would've listened to what he said, ignored him, and sent him on his way to Middle Earth. Mabey the valar were in a bad mood and killed him? Mabey they were in a good mood and let him stay. It doesn't seem like they'd let him stay though. Would the valar beleive his attempt to save his kingdom? Or would they just think he was trying to save his skin? This idea has been festering in my mind for quite some time now, and i need a voice of reason. So all you barrow-downers out there, please shead some light on the situation, because i am in great need of any ideas. (Actually I'm not, but nevertheless, i'd like to know what you think!)
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Old 02-27-2004, 04:07 AM   #2
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Question

Perky, I would hazard a guess that Amandil did indeed arrive at Valinor and with his dieing breath pleaded mercy for the Faithful and for the vain folly of the King and his people.

I feel the Valar must have granted mercy of sorts for the Faithful, for the armadas of Elendil, Isildur and Anarion were born uncannily aloft to safety and Middle Earth, on the same dark tidal waves that swamped Nmenor before their eyes.
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Old 02-27-2004, 06:59 AM   #3
Eorl of Rohan
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It is my belief that he perished in the sea. that is certainly what the author leads us to believe with hints.

But the matter is one of the many empty points in the world of Tolkien that we can fill up with our imagination. Like the fate of Earendil's sons, which I believe have starved to death.
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Old 02-27-2004, 10:15 AM   #4
The Perky Ent
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Silmaril

Umm...i must be forgetting something, but aren't Earendil's sons Elrond and Elros? Elros died after an old age and Elrong is currently living in Valinor until the end of his days, which won't come!
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'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fanor, and there he slew Finw King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finw alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'
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Old 02-27-2004, 10:20 AM   #5
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Eorl, I think you mean Dior's sons, Elured and Elurin.

As for Amandil, I don't think he reached Valinor. Just my personal opinion, though.
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Old 02-27-2004, 02:45 PM   #6
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I don't think Amandil reached Valinor either. Perhaps the Valar, while they couldn't let him come to Valinor, saw him coming and understood his purpose and so they let Elendil and his sons etc get out of Numenor. That is my theory.
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Old 02-28-2004, 03:09 AM   #7
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Yes,. Dior's sons. ^^ I think I am losing my memory.
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Old 02-28-2004, 10:59 AM   #8
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Amandil didn't necessarily have to reach Valinor for the fleets of Elendil and his sons to be saved. They were already members of the Faithful, and had always served the Valar. They were going to be saved anyway.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fanor, and there he slew Finw King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finw alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
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Old 02-28-2004, 01:18 PM   #9
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Tolkien

I think there are two posibilities to his fate:
1. he reached the Enchanted Isles and is sleeping on one of the beaches till the End of Time
2. he got shipwrecked or sunk or something like that and drowned

I think that no Man reached Valinor in the period between Earendil and the end of the TA, when Bilbo and Frodo arrived. And even these two (and later also Sam) got no further than Tol Eressa.
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Old 02-28-2004, 04:00 PM   #10
The Perky Ent
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Silmaril

Question, why would he be sleeping on the shores forever? And i don't think they'd kill him...unless they were in a bad mood. This would be a weird site: Amandil is sleeping on the shores. Ar-Parazon and his armada sail up twords him. Once Amandil's in sight, everyone jumps out of their ships and start swimming twords the shore. BOOM! No, somehow i don't think Amandil is in an eternal sleep.
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'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fanor, and there he slew Finw King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finw alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'
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Old 02-28-2004, 04:20 PM   #11
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'It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastward, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate. Men could not a second time be saved by any such embassy, and for the treason of Numenor there was no easy absolving.'
I believe Amandil was too great a mariner to be lost at sea. He probably was caught in one of the guarding isles; Earendil was the only sailor to ever reach Valinor, and this was because he had the Silmaril with him. I believe in one of the HoME there is a fragment of a tale of a mariner who landed on the isle of the elves and drank their wine, becoming immortal. I don't remember if it was in the Lays of Beleriand, Unfinished Tales, Lost Tales, or where. However, this was written when Tolkien intended to morph the history of Middle-earth into the history of Earth.
Perky, this quote comes from the hiding of Valinor: "And in the twilight a great weariness came upon mariners and a loathing of the sea; but all that ever set foot upon the islands were there entrapped,and slept until the Change of the World."
Rip Van Winkle, anyone?
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Old 02-28-2004, 06:20 PM   #12
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But we are forgetting about the 3rd possibility, that it was Eru, not the Valar that harkened to Amandil's prayers and saved the faithful from the downfall of numenor, and I think this one is more likely. Because I always somehow got the picture that the Valar had forsaken Middle-Earth after the War of Wrath, for Sauron's rise was the fault of the elves and men in ME. But Eru on the other hand would have a reason to save the faithful, so that they could defeat Sauron the Valar really cared about defeating Sauron...

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Old 02-28-2004, 08:00 PM   #13
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I think willkill has a good point, that maybe Eru saved the Faithful. That makes a lot of sense.

Amandil sleeping until the end of days makes sense too. I don't think that he would have shipwrecked.

Symestreem, you're talking about Eriol in the Book of Lost Tales. I think Tolkien abandoned all that though.

Short and Sweet. And I think I just completely changed my opinion.
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