Most Tragic Moment?

[Aaron]

What in your mind is the most tragic part in the books?

[Sir Kohran]

Boromir's death. He had so much potential for good and yet he was cut short before his time.

[Aaron]

That always was quite an emotional moment but for my money it was the final meeting with Treebeard. He had no future, there was nothing to look forward to, his life had lost all meaning because the Entwives were lost. It's hard to imagine a bleaker situation.

[Raynor]

The departing of Aragorn; all in all, Arwen must have had the most tragic fate of all elves - she experienced the inherent sadness of the elves, the poisoning and departure of her mother, the final separation from her family and race and, finnaly, the departing (premature some might say) of Aragorn. This last tragic moment in her life must have topped them all - here is the man for whom she foresook everything, and he just couldn't stay around more. I know, I know, he is supposed to embody the great virtues Men should have displayed in their unmarred state, including willful departure, but I can't help thinking he was a wee bit egoistic.

[Aaron]

Egotistic? Well, he was certainly no saint but if he lived on he would become a shadow of his former self and in the long run that would be crueller on Arwen.

[Folwren]

Frodo's departure from the Grey Havens, definitely. That or when Sam thought that Frodo was dead after Shelob attacked him and Sam was trying to figure out what he should do.

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

Boromir's death. He had so much potential for good and yet he was cut short before his time.

I think his death is sad, too, but consider it a mercy that the professor killed him when he did and with orcs. Have you ever read the HoME book The Treason of Isengard? In it there is a sort of time line, or lay out of the book, that Tolkien wrote and he was going to have Boromir go on and get worse and worse and eventually get killed by Aragorn... That would have been tragic.

-- Folwren

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Raynor

The departing of Aragorn; all in all, Arwen must have had the most tragic fate of all elves - she experienced the inherent sadness of the elves, the poisoning and departure of her mother, the final separation from her family and race and, finnaly, the departing (premature some might say) of Aragorn. This last tragic moment in her life must have topped them all - here is the man for whom she foresook everything, and he just couldn't stay around more. I know, I know, he is supposed to embody the great virtues Men should have displayed in their unmarred state, including willful departure, but I can't help thinking he was a wee bit egoistic.

This might be tragic, but it is in keeping with his fundamentally mortal nature, which he recognizes and accepts. Aragorn was a heroic throwback to the Kings of Numenor, before they became unwilling to lay down their lives of their own free will. Aragorn might have lasted a few more years, but not without descending into senility or some other such infirmity. The key here is to lay down one's life willingly, not to time one's descent into senility and infirmity exactly. So I think Aragorn did as he should have in this case, and in fact, really did not have another meaningful choice.

Perhaps the tragic part was that he convinced Arwen to join with him and become mortal herself. Once she did this, the die were cast, as they say... So if Aragorn is a wee bit egotistical, then it is in joining with Arwen in the first place, rather than letting her go into the West (perhaps this is what you meant).

Anyway, I agree there is a tragic element here, I just don't think it can be attributed to Aragorn's early departure--the tragic part is that Arwen laid down her immortality and only fully realized what this meant at the very end.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by CSteefel

Anyway, I agree there is a tragic element here, I just don't think it can be attributed to Aragorn's early departure--the tragic part is that Arwen laid down her immortality and only fully realized what this meant at the very end.

But is it so tragic? By making her choice, Arwen sundered herself permanently from her (birth) family, which must have caused her great sadness. But she did so to spend the remainder of her (now) mortal days with the one that she loved. And beyond that? No one knows. But the hope is that she will spend the rest of eternity with him (and their mortal descendants) beyond the circles of the world.