Who's got the best signature?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by tp

It's like watching a debate and complaining that the participants disagree about things.

Haha! A good one!

Let me give you another one: loving military parades while thinking oneself the utmost individual is like attending the Idols and saying "I'm just giving you my deepest self to be judged" and then singing like Justin Timberlake or Britney Spears - like had there been an Idols competition in the seventies they would have claimed the same and sang like Aretha... (which would have been better indeed had they managed it)

Rhetorics. Yes, I love that stuff (and some to follow...).

But really, if one talks of individuality and takes as one's hero the lonesome cowboy, then tell me how you can differentiate that video from this or this and how well it relates to that ideal?!?

To make it a bit more Tolkienish: aren't these the faceless orc-armies of effectivity and single-corps ideals which stand against all the values Tolkien craved for?

Just picture Frodo there in the line (seventh left on the twelth column whom you can see in the picture like half a second).

[the phantom]

Good links, Nog. That first one was especially good. A very entertaining spectacle, and my compliments to the talents of those responsible for bringing about such a visually pleasing performance.

But really, pretending that the spectacle itself actually means something, or rather that it can only be used in support of certain philosophies- that seems rather narrow. It is simply a choreographed activity requiring skill, discipline, and practice. It's like ballet, or an orchestra performing a symphony. Surely we cannot restrict a group of artists or an artform in such a way that it becomes monopolized by one single worldview.

And as far as the "faceless orc-armies" angle- I see little difference between that and the faceless Tower Guards or Rangers of Ithilien who acted in a coordinated manner. Since when has Sauron held sole possession of coordination in Middle Earth? Without Merry and Pippin getting the hobbits organized and unified in their resistance efforts, I doubt the hobbits would have won the day.

And about the Idol competition- yes, it's rather silly when someone states that they wish to be a singular icon and then imitates. However, we must remember that, when being yourself, you will undoubtedly be rather similar to at least one other person. It is completely possible to possess a voice and style incredibly like another established star without actively trying for it. In which case, it hardly seems fair to be down on the "imitator" simply because they had the misfortune of being born second. It could have been the other way around, and then we'd be criticizing Justin Timberlake for trying to sound like somebody else, rather than the reverse.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To make it a bit more Tolkienish: aren't these the faceless orc-armies of effectivity and single-corps ideals which stand against all the values Tolkien craved for?

Well, I've got a couple thoughts.

In LOTR, the subjection of self and self-interest to the interest of the whole is a very prominent theme and, I think, supports a measure of self-abnegation in a military context.

To draw a contrast between the heroes of LOTR and the soldiers that are involved in these military parades is similar to drawing a contrast between apples and oranges, the difference being that the members of the Fellowship were heroes (in a technical sense, perhaps?) as opposed to ordinary soldiers and as such have a very different role to fulfill. Heroes are supposed to run around by themselves and do cool stuff and help people out, whereas your average soldier's duty is to go and do what he's told. We can't all be heroes (again, in the sense of being free-wheeling protagonists) and we can't all be grunt soldiers.

Were the orc armies really effective? The interaction between orc soldiers that we see in Mordor (disagreement, independent thought, rivalry, conflict, and self-interest) would seem to indicate that the orc forces were not the models of faceless, disciplined uniformity that one might at first imagine. In fact, I believe that the effectiveness of the armies of Mordor was dependent on their sheer size, rather than their stellar training program.

As with anything, it depends on how you choose to look at it. China represents, I think, a potential negative realization of discipline and organization, because the obliteration of individuality has come to characterize the nation as a whole. However, in the US, rugged individualism is the name of the game (often unfortunately so). Our army is disciplined, but hardly to the extent of that the Chinese people as a whole are. Moreover, that kind of military demonstration is specifically ceremonial and in no way represents how the American military is typically conducted. Discipline and uniformity are indispensable for the effective operation of a military, but that principle can either be taken to a negative extreme (as in China), or it can be monitored and harnessed. It need not be always one or the other. It can be good or bad.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I think it is funny that ther is a part of the U.S. army that consists of juglers, but I guess it is good for the diversity of the Army. I also think it looks alot cooler than the jugglers in the circus and is more intertaining.

Downgrading these men to mere jugglers is understating their job. They don't just do military parades, they guard the capitol in times of crisis, are responisble for the security in White House, they look over Arlington National Cemetary, and they guard the tomb of the unknown soldier. Sorry, I couldn't let that comment pass unchecked.

What you said Andisgil about comparing them to Tower Guards, I often associate that with them guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Preserving and honoring a important monument to America and its fallen.

Gwathagor, nice bit of arguing there.

Discipline is good on its own, but the question is what are they disciplined for. The Dunedein were protecting the ancient kingdom of Arnor in hopes of a king arriving, the Ithilien Rangers to a lesser extent were protecting their homeland Gondor, just as Eomer was with his followers. All of them are good things to fight for: king, country, and freedom. A soldier who fights for a cause that he believes in will always be the better soldier, that is individuality mixed with the discipline to continue on, sometimes in the face of overwhelming odds (as you see in two of the three examples).

One thing that comes to my mind, and I thought worth mentioning, is when Faramir and his rangers look to the west. However, he does not know why they do it, that is where discipline and tradition lose its purpose and is done merely for ceromonial purposes.

[Gollum the Great]

Nice video, Groin.

I love our soldiers.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Downgrading these men to mere jugglers is understating their job. They don't just do military parades, they guard the capitol in times of crisis, are responisble for the security in White House, they look over Arlington National Cemetary, and they guard the tomb of the unknown soldier. Sorry, I couldn't let that comment pass unchecked.

I thought I was upgrading them. . .

I understood that they did more than jugling, afterall it was mentioned in the clip. The clip is not only about dicipline though, I might have made a good a diciplined soldier had I been drafted, but since I cannot jugle I could never make that particular guard.

[Bêthberry]

I could be wrong, but I had the strangest sense that this thread was about who has the best signature and not about which 3rd Age or 7th Age nation has the best army or jugglers or high stepping chorus line.

And speaking of signatures, have I mentioned lately that Lal's is very cool? Good job, Lal!

Originally Posted by Lal's siggie

I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I could be wrong, but I had the strangest sense that this thread was about who has the best signature and not about which 3rd Age or 7th Age nation has the best army or jugglers or high stepping chorus line.

And whether or not Groin's signature is the best is very much dependent on that latter question.

[Morai]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

And whether or not Groin's signature is the best is very much dependent on that latter question.

Agreed. Even if it turned into a bit of a tangent, I think his signature generated a very intriguing discussion.

If it hasn't been said already (or even if it has) I like the phantom's. It seems as if his and Mith's signatures have a sort of conversation going on.

[Kitanna]

I love Pio's and the links attached.

That way lies our hope, where sits our greatest fear. Doom hangs still on a thread. Yet hope there is still, if we can but stand unconquered for a little while. - "The King of the Golden Hall"; The Two Towers

Also I found Volo's rather amusing.

Don't worry, I don't understand the above either.

[Gwathagor]

Wow, I reeeaaally like Andsigil's signature.

[Andsigil]

Thank you. The Rebel Private in your signature is quite a good link. "Amazing Grace" on the bagpipes is one of the great musical achievements of mankind.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Thank you. The Rebel Private in your signature is quite a good link. "Amazing Grace" on the bagpipes is one of the great musical achievements of mankind.

Every link on Gwath's signature is great, though I did not notice the Rebel Private link until now. Great job Gwath, I absolutely love it, and that's coming from an avid Civil War/War of Northern Aggression buff.

I've already said that Andsigil's signature is great, but I think I'll say it again. Andsigil's signature is great!

[Lalwendë]

Mithalwen's:

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment

I might have to get hold of a DVD of that and watch it again. I like a bit of Whitehall intrigue

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Also I found Volo's rather amusing.

Oh yes, I like Volo's.

edit: Oh, and I always like Morth's.

[Groin Redbeard]

I just have to nominate Lilly's new signature. While it isn't a quote that many peopel would pick from The Lord of the Rings it is my personal favorite! Great signature, Lilly!

[Lilly]

“Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.” – Gimli, Fellowship of the Ring

Thanks, GR!

Since I'm playing in a Dwarves RPG, I wanted something Dwarvish.

[Volo]

I like Rune's - do you want me to add a link of it to the photo page?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Volo

I like Rune's - do you want me to add a link of it to the photo page?

You could. . . it would be odd. . .but you could.

There is also a clip about capitalism that I thought about using, but to be honest the one about communism is more me.

When I saw it the first time I got a flash back to me talking to a guy who never showed any interest in plotics, but because he was drunk felt like talking about it. He would say something like "cummunism is a beautiful idea, but utopian. . . just look at what happened in Russia", then I would answer like Marx did in that clip. (also with beer in hand)

Anyways this seemed like a video of how downers used to imagine me. . .I don't know if they still do that.

[Lalwendë]

You'll have to have a beer in the Museum Tavern in London, opposite the British Museum, next time you are there, Rune. That's where Karl Marx himself used to go for an ale.

[Thinlómien]

Aganzir's

ja kohta, veli, kautta mantereiden
hulmahtavat auki sydämemme

is from one of the most beautiful songs I know.

[Aganzir]

and soon, brother, throughout the continents
our hearts will fly open

That's not the exact translation as I don't know if the song has ever been translated into English but it will suffice. I believe it is of South American origin, and yes, it's also one of my favourite songs.

[Morai]

I like Mith's

Beware the deadly donkey falling slowly from the sky.
You can choose the way you live, my friend,
- but not the way you die.

Where's it from?

[Aganzir]

Fea,

Two grooms say "Paint the wedding hall,
and lavender's the shade..."
(There's money to be made)

I love your sig. The video is great.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I love your sig. The video is great.

Best musical I've ever seen, I swear. The song is frequently in my head.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I actually must nominate davem's, as I really really like it.

“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected.” GK Chesterton

In general, it's pretty good.

[Eönwë]

I second that, definitely.

[Kitanna]

I really like AbercrombieOfRohan's.

“What are you doing here, Bartleby?” said I.
“Sitting upon the banister,” he mildly replied.

Unless I'm mistaken it's from Bartleby the Scrivener. An interesting, but fairly sad novella by Herman Melville.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Morai

I like Mith's



Where's it from?

It is an interesting thought of Edward Monckton.

[Laurinquë]

I love Lommy's signature. It's from the Dido song "Northern Skies", which has to be one of the most beautiful songs ever written. It's certainly the one that rings truest in my own life. That verse is particularly lovely too, ...heartbreak and poetry, with deeper roots.

My only problem is that you made it your signature first!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Laurinquë

I love Lommy's signature. It's from the Dido song "Northern Skies", which has to be one of the most beautiful songs ever written. It's certainly the one that rings truest in my own life. That verse is particularly lovely too, ...heartbreak and poetry, with deeper roots.

My only problem is that you made it your signature first!

Sorry, Lauri. I love the song too, very much, and I identify with it too - I guess we Finns have something in common with you Alaskans.

[Groin Redbeard]

Gwathagor's signature is very interesting. Is that from an Irish point of view, Gwath, or just some royalist who hated Cromwell?

[Gwathagor]

It's the chorus from the Pogues' version of a traditional Irish song, (Young) Ned of the Hill, about an Irish gentleman-turned-bandit.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

It's the chorus from the Pogues' version of a traditional Irish song, (Young) Ned of the Hill, about an Irish gentleman-turned-bandit.

Ever heard the Tosser's cover of Young Ned of the Hill? I favor it more than the Pogues, but it's probably because I heard it first.

Funny, I was thinking of making the chorus to that song my signature recently.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Ever heard the Tosser's cover of Young Ned of the Hill? I favor it more than the Pogues, but it's probably because I heard it first.

No, I didn't know they had one! That must be very good. Is it a version of the original folk song, or a cover of the Woods/Kavana version (the one the Pogues do)?

[Gwathagor]

Oh wait, dumb question. The original doesn't have a chorus, never mind.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

It's the chorus from the Pogues' version of a traditional Irish song, (Young) Ned of the Hill, about an Irish gentleman-turned-bandit.

I notice your location is the 'Foggy Dew'. The Young Dubliners play a version of that song that is excellent. My old band used to play a version of their version of that song. I guess that would make it a diversion from the original version.

We also used to play their version of 'Rocky Road to Dublin', which was a real tongue twister after several Guinnesses. Thankfully, slurring the lyrics until is was unintelligible didn't seem to matter to a hundred or so drunks in a pub.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I notice your location is the 'Foggy Dew'. The Young Dubliners play a version of that song that is excellent. My old band used to play a version of their version of that song. I guess that would make it a diversion from the original version.

We also used to play their version of 'Rocky Road to Dublin', which was a real tongue twister after several Guinnesses. Thankfully, slurring the lyrics until is was unintelligible didn't seem to matter to a hundred or so drunks in a pub.

As much as I really like 'With All Due Respect,' I actually prefer the Chieftains' versions of 'The Foggy Dew' and 'The Rocky Road to Dublin.' I do think that the Young Dubliners have the very best renditions of 'Raglan Road' and 'I'll Tell Me Ma,' though.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

As much as I really like 'With All Due Respect,' I actually prefer the Chieftains' versions of 'The Foggy Dew' and 'The Rocky Road to Dublin.' I do think that the Young Dubliners have the very best renditions of 'Raglan Road' and 'I'll Tell Me Ma,' though.

*The Dark Elf snickers at the irony*

Conversely, I think the best renditions of 'Raglan Road' and 'I'll Tell Me Ma' are done by Van Morrison and the Chieftains. The Morrison/Chieftains album is one of the greatest Irish music recordings of all-time.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

*The Dark Elf snickers at the irony*

Conversely, I think the best renditions of 'Raglan Road' and 'I'll Tell Me Ma' are done by Van Morrison and the Chieftains. The Morrison/Chieftains album is one of the greatest Irish music recordings of all-time.

Hm. I think it's Van Morrison's style of singing that puts me off of that album. I can only imagine it to be a taste which I have yet to acquire - perhaps in a few years, I'll be able to see the greatness of it. For the time being, however, I will most willingly concede to you that their take on 'I'll Tell Me Ma' is a very, very, very close second to the YD's version.