WW LXI: Grimm Tales

[Isabellkya]

That would be the plot dear sir.

[Isabellkya]

Nope. The seer has not dreamed of them, yet.

[the phantom]

--Izzy
++Shasta

I trust someone would've challenged by now if it weren't true.

EDIT, xpost: What? So you've been lying? What do you actually know?

[Nerwen]

One minute left.

EDIT: Make that no minutes left.

EDIT2: What?

[wilwarin538]

It's done, stop please.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Nope. The seer has not dreamed of them, yet.

Wait... what!?

[the phantom]

So in other words, we just took a shot in the dark despite guidance from the Seer?

Should've left my vote on Izzy. Whatever.

[wilwarin538]

Yet again the villagers gathered in the town square as the sun began to set. It was an interesting day, votes were fairly spread out. It seemed Izzy would be the one to go today. However suddenly, right before the last glimpse of the sun, she cried out "I am the Fairy Godmother."

Everyone scrambled, changing votes and trying to figure out whether she was being truthful. When it was over Shasta had received the most votes.

"You're making another mistake." he said with a sigh as they led him towards the gallows. He eyed the contraption and sighed again "Oh please, not like that. I'm a fletcher, if I have to die I'd like it to be by one of my arrows."

"Oh...but we don't really know how to shoot arrows." Gwath pointed out as everyone nodded.

"My shop is rigt there, everyone grab a bow and an arrow and I'm sure atleast one will hit." he sighed again, trying to figure out how he stayed in business when there were no archers in town.

They all agreed and found themselves some bows with arrows. They put Shasta against a far wall and all lined up.

"3......2......1" Kath counted down as they got their arrows set, then they all shot at once.

Most of them missed, quite terribly actually, but four managed to hit their target, right in the middle of Shasta's chest. No one could tell who's arrows had hit, they barely even knew where their own had gone, but the deed had been done either way. They all watched Shasta's body, but nothing happened. No clues.

The villagers dropped the bows and started walking to their proper homes, the four baddies taking their usual routes towards the Old Witch's home. They all smiled to themselves. What bad guy doesn't know how to shoot an arrow?


The dead:
Nienna - bookkeeper - hung Day 1 - ordinary villager
Lommy – minstrel – mauled Night 2 – ordinary villager
Mith - herbalist - lynched Day 2 - Fair Maiden
Boro88 - the shruber – yum, frog legs Night 3 – Frog-Prince
Sally – poor serving girl – died of shear sorrow Night 3 - Princess
Shasta - fletcher - shot by arrows Day 3 - ordinary villager

The living:
Nerwen - bookmaker
Eomer - gravedigger
Aganzir - jailor, arena and lions included
McCaber - humble shopkeeper
Izzy - baker
Mira - apothocary
Gaurcrist - blacksmith
Gwath - drunk vagrant
Kath - restaurant owner
Inziladun - shruberrer's apprentice
Fea - Storyteller
Greenie - school teacher
Lari - fortune teller
the phantom - the crazy book liberator

Now Night 4. Names please. No posting here.

[wilwarin538]

One by one the villagers woke up and began to gather in the town square, all of them extremely glum about the last 3 Days. It was another nice day, which many of them found odd; during such a terrible time surely it should be rainy, or at least a little cloudy. But no, the sun shone and the birds sang as if all was well with the world.

As they arrived it took them a few moments to notice who it was that was missing. It was Gwathagor. They stood around quite confused, they didn’t even know where Gwath lived. So they wandered, trying to find a house fit for a drunken vagrant. No luck.

“Well, I don’t see where he could have lived. Which way did he go at the end of the Day?” Fea asked.

“Well, I think maybe that direction.” Eomer suggested, pointing south-east. The villagers followed his finger and saw in the distance a great castle atop a hill.

“Maybe he lived near that castle?” Nerwen suggested.

“Isn’t that just a model?” Greenie questioned.

“Well, maybe it isn’t. Let’s go see.” Lari said. So the villagers began to walk towards the castle. It wasn't a great distance away, so soon they arrived.

“Hmm, so it isn’t a model then…interesting.” McCaber said, quite impressed.

As they got closer they could see something hanging mid-way up one of the large stone walls. When they stopped a few feet away they realised it was Gwath. He was hanging by his wrists, which were attached by strong ropes. Their eyes drifted down until they landed on his feet. Or lack thereof; they had been chopped off somehow. As they looked over him again they noticed he was also holding a beautiful glass slipper.

“Look at the sign by the door!” Izzy exclaimed, pointing near the large wooden door. There was a small sign, and written on it in a beautiful script was: This be the castle of Prince Gwathagor the Charming.

“Oh my, we had a secret Prince living among us.” Inziladun proclaimed as they all stared back at the body of Gwath in awe.

“I’ll be sure to give him a very nice burial then.” Eomer said, taking the shovel down from his shoulder yet again.

The villagers let him be as they began walking back down to the village. Cinderella, who was still hidden among them, shed a silent tear. She had known the identity of her prince, but he had not been able to find her. Her first instinct was to leave and live her lonely life far away from this place, but she decided against it. She would stay in this village and she would help them be rid of the evil that had taken her destined love away from her.

Discussions began.

The dead:
Nienna - bookkeeper - hung Day 1 - ordinary villager
Lommy – minstrel – mauled Night 2 – ordinary villager
Mith - herbalist - lynched Day 2 - Fair Maiden
Boro88 - the shruber – yum, frog legs Night 3 – Frog-Prince
Sally – poor serving girl – died of shear sorrow Night 3 - Princess
Shasta - fletcher - shot by arrows Day 3 - ordinary villager
Gwath – drunk vagrant – defeated Night 4 – Prince Charming

The living:
Nerwen - bookmaker
Eomer - gravedigger
Aganzir - jailor, arena and lions included
McCaber - humble shopkeeper
Izzy - baker
Mira - apothocary
Gaurcrist - blacksmith
Kath - restaurant owner
Inziladun - shruberrer's apprentice
Fea - Storyteller
Greenie - school teacher
Lari - fortune teller
the phantom - the crazy book liberator

It is now Day 4. You may discuss. Names names names.

Sidenote: Cinderella is still in danger from the Robber Bridegroom. Otherwise there’s nothing special about her.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I had been wondering if Izzy had just messed up (along with the Seer), but I see she was not the target of the wolves.

At least the Seer's still around, hopefully with a lot of information.

[Gaurcrist]

Lynch tp! I say we should lynch tp. Well, as I explained before, he is probably bad, and if he is lynched and wasn't bad, at least we'll be rid of a malicious player. Who is with me!?

[Gaurcrist]

Now, I will vote phantom for reasons I explained before.

++Phantom

[Inziladun]

So they left Izzy alone, even after her last minute revelation. Why? Even if she was lying and just trying to save herself, that seems an awful risk for the baddies to take. After all, the seer and the ranger are in communication. And phantom- taking her word for it so quickly? How could he be so sure?
Izzy needs to do some fast talking and come up with something good. I echo Eomer in thinking the seer would be most helpful today as well.

edit- x'd with Gaur-no one can question his consistency.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I had been wondering if Izzy had just messed up (along with the Seer), but I see she was not the target of the wolves.

Either the wolves thought she was protecting herself or wanted to make her a lynch target today, or she is one of them. Gwath's death doesn't surprise me much, though - the way he and Izzy started suspecting me almost simultaneously looked like they had been communicating with each other. The wolves probably thought they'd get the seer (or, alternatively, if Izzy is a wolf, wanted to make it look like they had been trying to target the seer).

So, Izzy. What am I? (I'd prefer you didn't state my exact role aloud here, you know, but you can always tell if I'm innocent or not. )

Also - if Izzy is not the ranger, the real ranger should probably stay quiet about her identity. The seer knows who she is and that should be enough for now.

By the way, if Reddie hasn't been turned, it's 5-8 now (and might get worse very quickly if Cinderella has been too loud about her secret love). If we don't get a baddie today and there's no ranger save/hunter kill in the night, it'll be 5-6 tomorrow, after which, well... Of course we can hope that communication between the wolves and the Bridegroom doesn't work and they're not aware of one another, but we can't count on that.
If Reddie is a wolf already and we don't know about it, then we have practically lost.

I am going through yesterday now, there are some things I want to comment on.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Eh, regardless of phantom's true motives, his public image was the same as mine - and if it was a trap to kill another innocent (as it looks like) then I fell for it too. Yeah, I was a bit unsure of Izzy's reveal but sometimes you have to make a decision.

Gaurcrist is very much on the radar now. He might have been advised to cause some trouble at the start of the day to distract the village (or is the Robber Bridegroom). Again, regardless of phantom's true nature, Gaurcrist's early action isn't helpful.

[A Little Green]

I'm sorry I wasn't able to play yesterDay, but I'll try to make amends for it toDay. I didn't get half the stuff that was said yesterDay, I've a few comments on things that stood out to me in one way or another.

Originally Posted by Aganchirp

I'm still flip-flopping on Greenie. The way she flip-flopped on Cab & Shasta looked innocent but her posting near the deadline & her vote looked somehow... too calculating.

Well of course I would be calculating! I am interested in the outcome of the vote, I don't want to make a throwaway vote, and therefore I'm interested in knowing what other people are planning to do and calculate the possible outcomes of different options in my head. Unless they have fellows on the chopping block I'd say it's more the wolves who have no real need to calculate.

Originally Posted by Mira

Case against Fea starting Day 2

Originally Posted by Mira

Now this statement seems innocent enough. However, nothing that seems innocent with Fea ever is unless she's a baddie.

A couple of people have mentioned that Mira's case against Fea was quite flawed. What bothered me more was that she seemed to have decided beforehand that she suspects Fea and was therefore determined to find fur in Fea's every statement. Now people who just decide to suspect someone and then pursue that suspicion determinedly smell of wolf to me.


EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Eomer

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Gaurcrist is very much on the radar now. He might have been advised to cause some trouble at the start of the day to distract the village (or is the Robber Bridegroom). Again, regardless of phantom's true nature, Gaurcrist's early action isn't helpful.

I have to agree. I can understand (somewhat) the animosity there, but the single-mindedness really hasn't been useful.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I find the phantom to be a pleasant and respectable member of this forum. Usually, it's other people who lose control around him - see his signature for proof.

Gaurcrist has obviously been seriously affected by the phantom; either that, or it's an intricate ruse cooked up by the both of them.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Also, if you get the chance, Green, could you explain your Mith vote to me? I have written down that you said you didn't like any of the available candidates (you named Mith, Boro, and Eomer) but then you voted for Mith even though Izzy was available as an option, and you had not listed her as a bad lynch choice, where as you had mentioned Mith.

Yes we can! (Errr I meant yes, I can. I'm on a humourous mood today, it seems. ) So. My Mith vote. I did not mention Izzy in the post where I mentioned lynch candidates I don't like because she wasn't much voted for at that time. I did mention later on that I had nothing on Izzy and wouldn't like to vote for her. Just for clarity's sake, here are my posts from Day 2 that consider Mith and Izzy and voting.

Originally Posted by me on Day 2

I'm inclined to think Boro innocentish so I'd rather not see him go - but then, I'm not sure I'd like to vote Mith or Eomer either. There are sure to be better candidates!

Izzy? I'm not convinced about her either. How many still to vote? What are you planning to do? I wouldn't like to cast a throwaway vote.

I have nothing on Izzy, I don't know about Mith, and I don't suspect Boro. This is not nice.

++ Mithalwen

Because I suspect her more than Boro or Izzy.

So, basically, I was sort of torn about Mith (she struck me both more guilty and more innocent) and had absolutely nothing on Izzy. I concluded that Izzy could be just anything, whereas Mith was probably at least not a gifted (ie. seer or ranger) since I thought a gifted would not behave quite the way she did. Obviously, as you can see on the time stamp of my vote, I didn't have the time to make long explanations of what I was thinking.

Hope I made sense.


EDIT: x-ed with Inzy and Eomer

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I find the phantom to be a pleasant and respectable member of this forum. Usually, it's other people who lose control around him - see his signature for proof.

Indeed.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Eh, regardless of phantom's true motives, his public image was the same as mine - and if it was a trap to kill another innocent (as it looks like) then I fell for it too. Yeah, I was a bit unsure of Izzy's reveal but sometimes you have to make a decision.

Same here. We only had a few minutes to decide in... (Sorry, Shasta ).

I'm wondering... If Izzy is a wolf, what is Aganzir? Could that have been a wolf-on-wolf thing yesterDay?

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Gaurcrist is very much on the radar now. He might have been advised to cause some trouble at the start of the day to distract the village (or is the Robber Bridegroom). Again, regardless of phantom's true nature, Gaurcrist's early action isn't helpful.

We can refine this a bit: Gaurcrist has repeatedly voted the phantom for no particular reason except that he's just sure he's a baddie. Gaurcrist is still alive. So I should say the odds are heavily against tp being a wolf– unless a.) Gaurcrist is one too and it's all some weird (and badly executed) plot to make tp look good or something or b.) the wolves have let Gaurcrist live because they think he's the Robber Bridegroom.

Place your bets now!

the phantom is a wolf and Gaurcrist is innocent. (50-1)

They're in it together. (12-1)

They're both innocent. (12-1)

Gaurcrist is the Robber Bridegroom. (8-1)

"It's a safe bet with Auntie Nerwen!"

EDIT: X'd since Eomer at 535.

[Isabellkya]

Oh dear Village. That would be the conundrum would it not? Did I drink the wine proffered to me, or did I drink the wine in Their cup?

I know what you did.

I know you do. But They don't. They know not whether I ate cakes of my own making to counteract the poison or simply drank the sweet beverage. Nor do they know which cup I drank from.

It doesn't matter which cup you drank from.

Oh, but it does!
...........




Anywhoo. I don't believe I ever claimed dream results were in on Aganzir and Shasta. I said I had an epiphany - very different. Which I apologize Shasta - I seemed to have been in a destructive mood, or something.

To the best of my knowledge, I can't recall ever fake claiming here - I don't see why I would start now. I suppose if I was for sure to be in the noose yesterDay (which I wasn't), and was feeling particularly suicidal I suppose.

Which begs the question, as to why some people whom were around yesterDay at deadline did not try to save me after I claimed. But, professed 'shocked' sentiments when I said Aganzir and Shasta had not been dreamed.

Well, if you are shocked it were not true - it implies you believed they were for some reason. If you believed they were dreamed of, then you believed my Ranger claim. If you believed my Ranger claim, then why didn't you change your vote accordingly? Go ahead.



If you want to lynch me, I would only ask that you wait until a bit later. Or go and do it in the next ten minutes. Otherwise, I'm leaving in ten minutes - well thirteen to be precise and will be gone all day. Not a holiday for me today.


X'd since Eomer's #538.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Gwath's death doesn't surprise me much, though - the way he and Izzy started suspecting me almost simultaneously looked like they had been communicating with each other. The wolves probably thought they'd get the seer (or, alternatively, if Izzy is a wolf, wanted to make it look like they had been trying to target the seer).

I'm thinking there is no way Aganzir says this unless Izzy is a wolf. No way. It points out Aganzir as a wolf.

Then I think: if Izzy did just mess up yesterday, Aganzir is cleverly making sure there's no way of Izzy getting the village back on her side: Aganzir had Gwath killed, and everything is pointed to a set-up of an innocent Aganzir by Wolf Izzy.

Either way, one of them is going today, and I wouldn't rule out wolf-on-wolf.

[Isabellkya]

How clever of you Miss Aganzir. You know I am not one of you.
Do I know your role? Nay, not at this time.
I still think you are Nefarious.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Gwath's death doesn't surprise me much, though - the way he and Izzy started suspecting me almost simultaneously looked like they had been communicating with each other. The wolves probably thought they'd get the seer

Good grief. Who needs a seer to notice the fact that Aganzir just admitted she's evil.

The only way two people simultaneously suspecting somebody makes any difference to bad guys is if that somebody is a bad guy. Makes no difference the role of the two: the guilty conscience speaks for itself.

++Aganzir

Originally Posted by Izzy

Well, if you are shocked it were not true - it implies you believed they were for some reason. If you believed they were dreamed of, then you believed my Ranger claim. If you believed my Ranger claim, then why didn't you change your vote accordingly? Go ahead.

Easy, Iz: at the time I didn't actually believe (for certain) your Ranger reveal. I'd been thinking Robber Bridegroom for you. So when you revealed, I started to doubt myself, and then when you revealed that you knew absolutely jack (for certain, at least) about the roles of these people you were trying to get killed, I became rather more confident that you were behaving cobblerishly, trying to deflect attention from somebody, I just didn't know - and didn't have time to figure out - who.

In any case, whether you're bridegroom or not, you obviously scared Aganzir.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I'm thinking there is no way Aganzir says this unless Izzy is a wolf. No way. It points out Aganzir as a wolf.

I'm surprised I didn't think of this. I'd made it to:

Izzy = Bridegroom, Agan = spooked wolf
Izzy = Ranger, Agan = rightfully scared wolf
Izzy = Bluffing something, Agan = Robber Bridegroom trying to... I dunno...

But wolf on wolf is a twist I need to think about.

At least I'm finally confident about somebody's role.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

How clever of you Miss Aganzir. You know I am not one of you.
Do I know your role? Nay, not at this time.
I still think you are Nefarious.

You also said that about Shasta, and that didn't turn out so well.
At this point, my conclusion is that either you or Agan, or both, are bad.

edit- x'd with Fea

[Aganzir]

When examining my behaviour during the later half of yesterday, you might want to keep in mind the fact that I had slept altogether 10-11 hours during the previous two nights. I don't know about you others, but my energy level has more to do with how I post than my role so I should probably start posting on the admin thread every time I've slept less than seven hours.

Originally Posted by Inzil

As yet I do not have past histories of players to rely on and am pretty much learning as I go.

I was talking about their behaviour in this game, not in general. Kath has been far more substantial than, say, Mira.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I thought my reasoning no flimsier than that used by others when people have actually been lynched.

Sometimes people are lynched on flimsy grounds. Truth is, when telling why you suspected Kath, you mostly described what she had been doing and said her un-explained vote sounded bad. Well Kath said she had run out of time, and although she would've wanted to go through his posts, she was happy with her vote. I can't see what was suspicious about that, and your comment looks opportunistic.

Eomer - a hypothetical question. Would your conscience allow you to fake your knowledge about the rules if doing so would make you look better in the eyes of the village?

Originally Posted by Izzy

Why didn't you use that as your reason yesterDay?

Because that day my main reason was that I didn't want Boro or Mith to die. But as you can see from my post #314, I found you suspicious, and mentioned also those things, so I just voted for one of my suspects.

Originally Posted by Izzy

Why would I do such a thing when I thought Boro innocent, and Eomer no idea?

Tell me that. Yet it was you who said we shouldn't think their confusion about the roles pointed to their innocence. Of course their confusion didn't mean they're innocent, no one said so, but you were trying to altogether downplay the whole thing. Like, "hey village keep suspecting them, this doesn't mean anything!"

Originally Posted by Izzy

How is my suspicions of Shasta weird?

Okay sorry - here I admit to being reckless (I decided to go with my gut and not go back to check how things actually were - I had so little time). The thing I found weird about it was how you kept labouring the point of his ordo claim being a bluff, it came across as if you were trying to use every single reason you could find to suspect him.

Phantom why do you think Izzy's claim would have been challenged in eight minutes if she isn't the ranger when half the village is away?

Nerwen and Kath look good.
Inzil and Mira look bad.

**

Okay today.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Well of course I would be calculating!

Yes but the way you were calculating looked evil - you went like "to vote or not to vote" on several people, and waited really long till you voted. Plus your vote was the one that saved Izzy.

Originally Posted by Green

What bothered me more was that she seemed to have decided beforehand that she suspects Fea and was therefore determined to find fur in Fea's every statement.

Exactly my thoughts here.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I'm thinking there is no way Aganzir says this unless Izzy is a wolf. No way. It points out Aganzir as a wolf.

Could you be so friendly as to explain your thought process because I don't get it?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Good grief. Who needs a seer to notice the fact that Aganzir just admitted she's evil.

Fea, I believe you're right. I didn't even notice that!

...You know, that could be right up there with, "I've never been a wolf before..."

Izzy looks pretty bad too, though... she must have known she was misleading us yesterDay.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Good grief. Who needs a seer to notice the fact that Aganzir just admitted she's evil.

The only way two people simultaneously suspecting somebody makes any difference to bad guys is if that somebody is a bad guy. Makes no difference the role of the two: the guilty conscience speaks for itself.

I don't understand what you're talking about. When I read through the day in the night, I thought it was possible Izzy was the ranger and was just testing Shasta & me (or others, if she was convinced we were guilty). The way she and Gwath started suspecting me at the same time (and with very little reason) made me think they had had a private chat and judged me evil. Consequently, I thought Gwath could be the seer.

And sorry if I'm somehow slower than you others, but it was only Izzy's posting today that really convinced me she's evil.

edit: xed with Nerwen. Could someone explain to me what that's about?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan (underlining mine)

I don't understand what you're talking about. When I read through the day in the night, I thought it was possible Izzy was the ranger and was just testing Shasta & me (or others, if she was convinced we were guilty). The way she and Gwath started suspecting me at the same time (and with very little reason) made me think they had had a private chat and judged me evil. Consequently, I thought Gwath could be the seer.

And sorry if I'm somehow slower than you others, but it was only Izzy's posting today that really convinced me she's evil.

Right, Agan, have a look at the underlined passage and tell me something. If you judge that someone who thinks you are evil is the Seer, what does that make you? (Clue: not innocent.)

[Nerwen]

Okay... in the interests of being perfectly fair, I guess Agan could mean that the wolves thought that Gwath and Izzy (supposedly the Seer and Ranger) were pm-ing about her during the Day without the Seer having dreamed her yet, and it was just the fact that they seemed to be communicating that alerted the wolves– not that it was about Aganzir in particular. (Am I making sense?)

Hmmn... All well and good... but it's just not the way an innocent thinks, in my opinion.

Also, she's making a great show of suspecting Izzy toDay... but look how neatly that argument exonerates her.

EDIT: fixed bolding.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay... in the interests of being perfectly fair, I suppose Agan could mean that the wolves thought that Gwath and Izzy (supposedly the Seer and Ranger) were pm-ing about her during the Day without the Seer having dreamed her yet, and it was just the fact that they seemed to be communicating that alerted the wolves– not that it was about Aganzir in particular. (Am I making sense?)

Yes that's a fair point - but on the second quote, the one I posted in my last post, she says she thought Gwath was the Seer, which is kind of interesting...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Yes that's a fair point - but on the second quote, the one I posted in my last post, she says she thought Gwath was the Seer, which is kind of interesting...

That sort of illustrates what I mean about "not the way an innocent thinks"...

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That sort of illustrates what I mean about "not the way an innocent thinks"...

Indeed. I should make a list in order not to concentrate solely on Aganzir's wolfy thinking. I'm quite convinced we've got a wolf (interested to see how she defends herself, though), but we also have three others, and though I'll probably vote Agan toDay I don't want to spend the whole Day talking only about her. Yes. I should make a list.

But then, I should also write an essay. Gah...

[Nerwen]

Well, I need to get some sleep.

Good night.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't understand what you're talking about. When I read through the day in the night, I thought it was possible Izzy was the ranger and was just testing Shasta & me (or others, if she was convinced we were guilty). The way she and Gwath started suspecting me at the same time (and with very little reason) made me think they had had a private chat and judged me evil. Consequently, I thought Gwath could be the seer.

And sorry if I'm somehow slower than you others, but it was only Izzy's posting today that really convinced me she's evil.

Oddly enough, Gwath's last vote was for you, was it not?
I don't find your potshots at me particulary worrisome. I explained my Kath vote, and no, it wasn't that solid of a case, but it was down to her and Mith and I made a decision. At least I didn't vote a known innocent as I did the first time.
I know what side I am on, thank you.

Izzy is still highly suspicious. In post #490 she goes into detail about why Agan is so dodgy, gives a couple of lines to Shasta, proclaiming him 'foul' as well, and then goes and votes Shasta. And for someone needing to justify a pretty serious claim, she's not speaking all that plainly.

[the phantom]

I'm pretty much hating Izzy right now.

Originally Posted by Izzy

Anywhoo. I don't believe I ever claimed dream results were in on Aganzir and Shasta. I said I had an epiphany - very different.

Really? Are you sure?

I asked you if the Seer had dreamed of you, and you said this-

Originally Posted by Izzy

They did indeed dream of me.

That means that you would be able to PM with the Seer (because the Seer can PM the FGM or Hunter if he/she dreams one of them), which means you would know ALL THE DREAM RESULTS!!!

So, I went back and looked at the guilt/innocence list you posted (here), and you didn't say anything certain about anyone on the list, except Agan and Shasta who were listed as "foul".

So the OBVIOUS implication was that the Seer had told you that Shasta and Agan were guilty, seeing as they were the only two listed with any certainty ("He is foul" and "She is foul").

But then of course right at the end you posted this-

Originally Posted by Izzy

Nope. The seer has not dreamed of them, yet.

And if I had seen that before I voted I would've just kept my vote on you. I didn't think Shasta was a terrible risk because I figured he wasn't the Seer, so I went along with your claim, but once I saw that you were claiming to be dreamt of AND know absolutely nothing for certain, well.... I was not pleased.

How do you explain this, lass?

[A Little Green]

Nerwen - Makes mostly valid points, is helpful and clever and entertaining, none of which makes her innocent of course, but I have little reason for suspecting her.

Eomer - I have very little on him considering how actively he has posted. Could be anything.

Aganzir - Like I said I'm pretty convinced we've got a wolf here.

McCaber - I wish he'd post more. Things being as they are I can't say this or that about him.

Izzy - She. Is. Causing. Me. A. Big. Headache. Seriously though, I do wonder why she wasn't killed last Night. Either she is a baddie who's faking or else the wolves expected her to protect herself. Also her interactions with Agan are interesting. Dunno. I want to check her posts, but I won't have time to do that today. Hopefully I'll have the time still toDay..

Mira - I'm uneasy about her, because of that affair with the cause against Fea. She's another one I'd need to check.

Gaurcrist - Another one I'd wish to hear more from.

Kath - A classic Kath; relatively quiet but speaks a lot of sense. No idea about her role, possibly leaning innocent.

Inziladun - Seems okay.

Fea - If Agan does turn out to be a baddie it makes Fea look quite innocent since she was the one who originally paid attention to Agan's "slip". I don't claim that others wouldn't have noticed it if she hadn't pointed it out, but the fact that she was the first to do that makes me seriously doubt that she'd be her fellow. Besides, nothing else she has said has caused me to suspect her.

Lari - The same as McCaber and Gaurcrist. Hope she'll be better soon! Food poisoning sounds nasty.

the phantom - Still no idea.

SO:

Leaning innocent:
Fea
Inziladun
Kath
Nerwen

No idea:
McCab
Gaurcrist
Lari

Too many ideas:
Izzy
phantom
Eomer

Leaning evil:
Mira

Downright evil:
Agan


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen (Good night!), Inzy (Hello!) and phantom (Hello!)

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Right, Agan, have a look at the underlined passage and tell me something. If you judge that someone who thinks you are evil is the Seer, what does that make you? (Clue: not innocent.)

Okay I admit that looks funny (I'm seriously irritated but your comment managed to make me laugh). The point was that I thought Izzy and Gwath had been communicating, and the seer & the ranger could communicate.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay... in the interests of being perfectly fair, I guess Agan could mean that the wolves thought that Gwath and Izzy (supposedly the Seer and Ranger) were pm-ing about her during the Day without the Seer having dreamed her yet, and it was just the fact that they seemed to be communicating that alerted the wolves– not that it was about Aganzir in particular. (Am I making sense?)

Either that, or they wanted to find someone whose death would take our eyes off Izzy. In this light the latter sounds a hundred times more likely than the former, and they seem to have succeeded in that damn well. I just don't understand why she pretty much confessed now if their intention was to keep her alive, unless she's the Bridegroom.

This is annoying me to no end, if we don't get a baddie today our chances are going to be very slim tomorrow, and you are talking about lynching me!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

but it's just not the way an innocent thinks, in my opinion.

I fail to see why. I think mainly about myself and compare I'm a self-centered player because my innocence is the only thing I can be sure about (and I'm a self-centered person because I'm just so awesome).
So, Nerwen, tell me what is the way an innocent thinks. Go ahead. Tell me why you think Gwath was killed. I request everybody tell me why Gwath died. That will not only reveal to us how an innocent thinks (we just take the theory most people agree on and declare it AN INNOCENT WAY OF THINKING), but it will also be very helpful since it gets people talking.

And I am being serious.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Also, she's making a great show of suspecting Izzy toDay... but look how neatly that argument exonerates her.

Where did that come from? I didn't say anything definite about her before she started posting today.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

she says she thought Gwath was the Seer, which is kind of interesting...

Yes and Izzy said the seer hadn't dreamed of me so I don't see where the problem is.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I explained my Kath vote, and no, it wasn't that solid of a case, but it was down to her and Mith and I made a decision.

No it was not particularly the vote but the fact that your suspicion of her looked wolfish!

It's pretty interesting Greenie doesn't find Izzy (who practically confessed earlier today) suspicious but wavers on her. Remember the wolves can afford to be bold at this point, there are so few days left if everything goes according to their will.

Really this is ridiculous.

[Mirandir]

I'm around but I'm going to wait to see how a few things play out before I post anything of significance. That and my brain doesn't function without food and pizza isn't here yet.