"Cruel deeds by dark and light" - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elmo · 01-23-2007, 10:28 AM

I was just wondering how could the dwarves in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs perform cruel deeds. They were fighting Orcs after all, perhaps this was a time when some Orcs repented like Tolkein said they could do in some HoME quote or another. The wise said the Orcs should then be spared but maybe the Dwarves refused to. Or maybe they didn't distinguish man from orc or something, Any ideas?

Lord Melkor · 01-23-2007, 08:29 PM

Well, it would seem to me that the cruelty of a deed depends on the deed itself, and not on the person it is inflicted on. If the Dwarves would've slowly tortured captured Orcs to death, or perhaps executed them by setting them on fire, then it is quite obvious that those deeds were cruel, even though the victims were 'just' Orcs. The Dwarves would've done well to remember that they need not stoop to the tactics of the orcs, lest they become as cruel as the orcs themselves.

Thinlómien · 01-24-2007, 03:02 AM

I completely agree with Lord Melkor.

If you however want to interpret it the way that you can't do anything cruel to evil people because they deserve it all, you could also maybe interpret that quote the way that the dwarves were nasty to each other (rivaling warlords etc.).

Elmo · 01-24-2007, 10:16 AM

At this point I could say many things about the CIA and Al Qaida suspects but that would be too controversial...

Rhod the Red · 01-30-2007, 10:41 PM

I bet it was stuff like robbery of travellers between the High Pass and Mirkwood, joint assults against human settlements near the House of Beorn.

mhagain · 01-31-2007, 02:05 PM

As mortals I'd presume that they have the same freedom as Men - to do as they wish beyond the scope of the Music, even if it's evil.

As for the morality element, I think I'll refrain from comment. Too subjective.

01-23-2007, 10:28 AM	#1
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	"Cruel deeds by dark and light" I was just wondering how could the dwarves in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs perform cruel deeds. They were fighting Orcs after all, perhaps this was a time when some Orcs repented like Tolkein said they could do in some HoME quote or another. The wise said the Orcs should then be spared but maybe the Dwarves refused to. Or maybe they didn't distinguish man from orc or something, Any ideas? __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering. Last edited by hewhoarisesinmight; 01-23-2007 at 10:44 AM.

01-23-2007, 08:29 PM	#2
Lord Melkor Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 78	Well, it would seem to me that the cruelty of a deed depends on the deed itself, and not on the person it is inflicted on. If the Dwarves would've slowly tortured captured Orcs to death, or perhaps executed them by setting them on fire, then it is quite obvious that those deeds were cruel, even though the victims were 'just' Orcs. The Dwarves would've done well to remember that they need not stoop to the tactics of the orcs, lest they become as cruel as the orcs themselves. __________________ 'I am the Elder king: Melkor, first and mightiest of all the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will.'

01-24-2007, 03:02 AM	#3
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I completely agree with Lord Melkor. If you however want to interpret it the way that you can't do anything cruel to evil people because they deserve it all, you could also maybe interpret that quote the way that the dwarves were nasty to each other (rivaling warlords etc.). __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

01-24-2007, 10:16 AM	#4
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	At this point I could say many things about the CIA and Al Qaida suspects but that would be too controversial... __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

01-30-2007, 10:41 PM	#5
Rhod the Red Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 257	I bet it was stuff like robbery of travellers between the High Pass and Mirkwood, joint assults against human settlements near the House of Beorn. __________________ Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia

01-31-2007, 02:05 PM	#6
mhagain Wight Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch Posts: 219	As mortals I'd presume that they have the same freedom as Men - to do as they wish beyond the scope of the Music, even if it's evil. As for the morality element, I think I'll refrain from comment. Too subjective.