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01-04-2006, 12:00 AM | #1 |
Sword of Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oh, I'm around.
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A Happy Ending... or is it?
Tolkien's books end. (obviously ) From a story standpoint, it is a happy ending. Sauron is defeated, Aragorn becomes king, Frodo finds rest in Valinor, Sam marries Rosie, and on and on and on... All is well and the story is, well, done. Happy ending, right?
I'm not so sure. Despite all the happy endings and the general 'good prevailed' feeling at the end of the book, happy was not exactly how I felt. I mean, sure, I was glad that the characters completed their quests, but other than that, I felt... well, empty. That's right, a little happy, but more empty. It was very bitter-sweet to me. Sweet, because the tale was over and evil was defeated before the end. Very, very sad because it was, in fact, the end. It was almost like I had been there with them all along, walked with the fellowship on their way to destroy the Ring, and now they all just 'end'! It's not really a feeling that has to do 'with' the ending itself, but more about the fact that it 'was' the end. The epic was over. That wondrous tale that I had been very much a part of was done, and where was I to go now? It's me, standing on a dock, watching that last ship bearing Sam dwindle in the setting sun, and realizing... they're all gone; every last one. Empty. Am I alone in this? Does anyone else share this feeling, this bitter-sweet, happy-empty feeling? P.S. I can imagine this must have been how Frodo felt when he returned to the Shire. How can you go back after all that has happened?
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01-04-2006, 12:25 AM | #2 |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,724
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[rambling]
I know exactly how you feel, Gurthang. For this reason I usually try to avoid the ending of movie RotK whenever we watch it again. It just makes me feel so...incomplete. Like "I know this is the end, but it just can't end like this. It's too depressing." Perhaps the greatest cause of this melancholy - at least for me - is the (second) breaking of the Fellowship. They have endured tough times together and apart, and they certainly deserve to enjoy the fruit of their labor together! Unfortunately, I believe we have their "racial differences" to blame for their inevitable separation. They have their own lives to go back to, own ruins to rebuild, and own families and fellowmen to (continue to) nurture. In the case of Frodo and the rest, they have a ride to catch. As for me, well, perhaps I can go back to Mount Doom and re-take the Ring and start the whole thing all over again. Another thing is that not everyone ends up happy, considering what evil they managed to escape what with Sauron not succeeding in taking over Middle-earth. Frodo, for one, is not completely happy; think October 6 (did I have that date right?). And I don't like anyone hurting when everyone's supposed to be happy. You deserve to be happy, don't you, Frodo? It might seem a bit far-fetched, but this made me think about the kind of books we prefer to read. If, say, I'm a huge fan of fairy-tale, happily-ever-after endings, well, LotR is in some ways a tragedy. But if my melodramatic life urges me to find solace in tragedies, LotR is a fairy tale. More likely the reality is that it's somewhere in between, or a different thing altogether. But you're right, Gurthang. LotR had been a heck of a journey, and it's just hard to accept that the rollercoaster would end just like that. And the appendices, though helpful, is not exactly an adventure I could join them in. [/rambling] Last edited by Lhunardawen; 01-04-2006 at 12:36 AM. |
01-04-2006, 01:20 AM | #3 |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,135
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Bittersweet.... Yes, that's how I feel. And so much of my reaction has to do with my sense of loss: the loss that Frodo has experienced, the loss of the magic of an entire Age, and even some of the personal losses that I've felt in my own life. Let me try and explain....
Frodo's story is never finished. We know he went to Valinor, and we hope he found healing. Since he loved Elves and Elvish things, he might have found some solace there. There is a hint of that in Tolkien's description of Tol Eressea: the grey rain curtain parting and our tiny glimpse of the white shores and that far green country. Yet, how can we be sure? Whenever I read the end of the Lord of the Rings, I can't help thinking of the poem Seabell, which gives us such an eerie sense of the despair and isolation that hung over Frodo's head. I almost wish I had never read that poem..... Was the Ringbearer able to put the pieces of his life back together on Tol Eressa, or was there only more pain? We stand on the shore and watch the boat recede, but we can not call it back to us or know what lies beyond. Secondly, it isn't just the individual characters: it is a whole Age that we are losing. The Elves are leaving Middle-earth and much of the wonder and magic departs with them. Sam points out to his daughter that pieces of the magic linger on. There are still a few Elves about and the mallorn blooms in the Party Field. Sam may have that consolation, but the modern reader does not. We know that the magic will become ever more distant. There is no turning back. We live in a world that has no Elves. Occasionally, I may glimpse a little of the Shire in the eyes of my children, but I am greedy for more. To be truthful, at the end of the book, I find myself grieving for a world, for a past, that never even existed. Rationally, I understand that. Yet, part of me does not want to accept those limitations and still yearns for something that feels as if it should have been: to catch just one glimpse of the Shire or to spend one evening with Elrond in Rivendell. That's the craziness of the book for me. Somehow, the ending gets mixed up with my feelings about real life. There have been times in my life when I have felt real loss. Those moments have not been pleasant and have thankfully receded into the past. Yet, when I stand with Frodo in the Grey Havens, I again feel an echo of that old pain, yet now it has been draped with a gentle silver mist and I can manage it. Still, the ending reminds me of the fact that I am human. There is so much I don't know and so much I yearn for that I will never have. If Frodo is standing on the shores and mourning, I am mourning with him. What a long winded explanation! Probably no one else personalizes the ending of the book in this way. But that surely is one of the main reasons I find the Grey Havens so poignant.
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Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. Last edited by Child of the 7th Age; 01-04-2006 at 01:24 AM. |
01-04-2006, 11:07 AM | #4 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: commonplace city
Posts: 518
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There may be more than you think, Child! I think the author did exactly what he set out to do. Not as an intentional marketing ploy to make you automatically buy upcoming products. But the intention of causing the reader to feel that he/she has discovered something wonderous beyond words, beyond earthly physics, beyond human control. Yet in the discovery is the realization that what has been found must be lost. In that ending (of LOTR) was another chapter of loss that was, and will continue to be.
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You have your maps and characters and beastiary. Lives lived and wars won and lost. It all adds up for a good read. But that feeling to me is the pure craft of genious. Long live that feeling! Quote:
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01-04-2006, 11:37 AM | #5 |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,135
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Drigel,
I am glad that you posted and confirmed what I am feeling. I don't want to minimize the joy that is there in the ending. Indeed, one of the reasons I have trouble with some modern fiction is the underlying sense some authors convey that nothing has any intrinsic meaning. Instead, they point to a hollowness at the core of existence. Tolkien's writings are the opposite: his depiction of life is shot through with meaning and, because of that, there are flashes of real joy. We can see the meaning at work in the story. We can reach out and almost touch it. Yet, however hard we try, we find we can't quite get there. It is there one minute and gone the next. The chapter on the Grey Havens is the epitome of this. It is a poignant portrayal of many good things of life: the friendship between Sam and Frodo, the wise words of Gandalf, Frodo's willingness to stand up against the night. Yet it is also a reminder that, when it comes right down to it, we are powerless to prevent bad things from happening. My own mood can also influence my reading of the end of the book. If it's a day that I'm an upbeat hobbit with sunshine on my shoulder, I mentally add a picture of Frodo in Tol Eressea going on the assumption that he will find warmth and healing. If I am in an Elvish mood (as I am today for some unknown reason) and feeling the pressure to keep the forces of change and shadow at bay, I have a very different reaction. I am hoping that Davem will post on this thread. There have been discussions where we've debated what Frodo's fate and sacrifice actually mean. I think it's fair to say that his own view is generally not a sunny one.
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01-04-2006, 11:56 AM | #6 | ||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: commonplace city
Posts: 518
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01-27-2006, 11:38 AM | #7 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,385
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Now when I think about this I feel that LotR doesn't have a happy ending. It's bitter-sweet and more bitter than sweet. It's so so sad that the elves leave it's like the whole magic of the world just disappeared.
The quote from Lórien (which I can't quote because I don't have the book in English) always makes me so sad of the elves' departure. It's about Frodo, how he sees Galadriel as the people of later ages. I think that's the first place the reader really understands that eventually the elves must pass. And with the passing of the elves I think that the reader is also reminded that everything has to pass. That makes it so beautiful, and bitter, like life itself. And I always start to cry when Gandalf says his famous words about crying. That really moves me, but I can't tell why. On the other hand, from the viewpoint of literature, LotR would be probably be classified as a book with happy or semi-happy ending, if such classifications would exist. And, it's not a happy ending for the reader either because when the book is shut you know it's over. It doesn't continue. But of course, you can always start all over...
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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01-27-2006, 12:30 PM | #8 |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Death as inevitable ending for Men was, apparently, a by-product of Melkor's influence on them (as Andreth tells Finrod in their debate); it was also the marring of Melkor which precipitated the fading of the elves and therefore their departure. However, there is a sort of a poetic revenge (Notes on motives in the Silmarillion, Myths transformed):
"Melkor's final impotence and despair lay in this: that whereas the Valar (and in their degree Elves and Men) could still love 'Arda Marred', that is Arda with a Melkor-ingredient, and could still heal this or that hurt, or produce from its very marring, from its state as it was, things beautiful and lovely, Melkor could do nothing with Arda, which was not from his own mind and was interwoven with the work and thoughts of others" Of even greater beauty and potence I find the BoLT version of Ainulindale: "Through him has pain and misery been made in the clash of overwhelming musics; and with confusion of sound have cruelty, and ravening, and darkness, loathly mire and all putrescence of thought or thing, foul mists and violent flame, cold without mercy, been born, and death without hope. Yet is this through him and not by him; and he shall see, and ye all likewise, and even shall those beings, who must now dwell among his evil and endure through Melko misery and sorrow, terror and wickedness, declare in the end that it redoundeth only to my great glory, and doth but make the theme more worth the hearing, Life more worth the living, and the World so much the more wonderful and marvellous, that of all the deeds of Ilúvatar it shall be called his mightiest and his loveliest". In a 1944 letter to his son, he describes evil as labouring with vast powers and perpetual success - yet "in vain: preparing always only the soil for unexpected good to sprout in". According to The laws and customs of the eldar, the best attitude to all the griefs and sorrows of the world would not be seeking justice, but healing: "Healing cometh only by suffering and patience, and maketh no demand, not even for Justice. Justice worketh only within the bonds of things as they are, accepting the marring of Arda, and therefore though Justice is itself good and desireth no further evil, it can but perpetuate the evil that was, and doth not prevent it from the bearing of fruit in sorrow." My final refference would be to Finrod's explanation of hope: of all His designs the issue must be for His Children's joy . |
01-28-2006, 06:47 PM | #9 | ||||||||||||
Banshee of Camelot
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,833
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The ending is bitter-sweet, sad and yet hopeful. When I finish reading the LotR, I feel sad, but not depressed and empty! I think this ending is beautiful and perfect, even if it makes the tears rise in my eyes. It is just like Gandalf says: Quote:
I think the following quote expresses this mood very well: Quote:
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Strider tells the hobbits about the song of Tinuviel: Quote:
I also think the ending is rather realistic, in a way. It is not made sure what is really going to happen to Frodo, just as we don’t know what lies beyond the circles of the world. And the fact that the Elves, Ents, Dwarves, Woodwoses etc are all slowly going to vanish and only remain as a few misunderstood words in old poems and fairytales, and that Middle-earth and its magic will be replaced by the modern world is quite true and generates this “Heartracking sense of the vanished past” as Tolkien called it in a letter. Quote:
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I will much rather believe in Tolkien's explantion than worry about the mysterious and depressing poem "the Seabell"! Quote:
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Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat! Last edited by Guinevere; 01-28-2006 at 06:51 PM. Reason: a mistake |
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01-28-2006, 09:25 PM | #10 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Davem wrote:
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01-29-2006, 01:34 AM | #11 | |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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07-07-2011, 08:23 PM | #12 | |||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,311
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Just reading all that makes me tear up all over again!
I am adding myself to the host of people who felt empty. For ME, for the Elves, for Sam, for the re-broken Fellowship, for LOTR itself, name it - just empty. I don't really like the word "bittersweet", I think "a smile through tears" is a better description for me (although they do mean pretty much the same thing... but I see a small difference...). Really, I can't complain about the ending. It's beautifully done, and just couldn't have been done better. Also, I prefer sad endings (not necessarily tragic, but with some element of that) or those with questionmarks over them to "happily-ever-after"s. Quote:
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"The world is indeed ful of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater." ~Haldir (Although the literal/obvious/physical darkness was brought down, it still remains in different forms in ME. And you could replace "love" with "hope" and get The Grey Havens in a nutshell.) "Among the tales of sorrow and of ruin that come down to us from the darkness of those days there are yet some in which amid weeping there is joy and under the shadow of death light endures." ~Of Beren and Luthien I see Gandalf's famous line was already quoted, but I'll do it again: "I will not say: do not weep, for not all tears are an evil." But great tales never end as tales, you know that! PS: I am against speculating about what happend to Frodo&other mortals in Valinor. It's meant to be left a questionmark - just like Bombadil, and Maglor's fate, and what happened to Ferny, and all other mysteries and enigmas. Knowing the answers to them just ruins everything. It gives you knowledge on the "logical level" - like Azaelia put it - but it takes away from the emotional level. PPS: I hope no one will eat me for doing this, but I couldn't help thinking of Greensleeves when I was writing my post.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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07-08-2011, 12:41 AM | #13 | ||||
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 145
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Anywy, Tolkien did give "some" clue as to Frodo's fate (and, by extension, Bilbo's) in Letter #246 Quote:
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Last edited by Puddleglum; 07-08-2011 at 12:47 AM. |
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07-08-2011, 12:40 AM | #14 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In Eldamar beside the walls of Elven Tirion
Posts: 551
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You're definitely not alone in this. I felt exactly the same way you did. Then again, I think it just made me love the story even more. There was enough of fairy-tale happiness towards the end of the book – an ending that was cliched and sappy would, in my opinion, have killed the whole majesty of the story.
Yes, I was very sad when Frodo left, but after discovering The Silmarillion and other works regarding ME, I felt pretty elated. You can just bury yourself into any story you want. And of course, the discussions in the Downs never lets it end
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07-20-2014, 08:16 AM | #15 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 265
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LotR has the best ending. It's magical, poignant, outstanding, heartbreaking and hopeful. The end left me with strange feelings that I had never experienced before. It's very sad, so sad that I can't read the books again (on matter how much I want to). Sam, Merry, Pippin return home, Aragorn becomes King, Legolas and Gimli end the enmity of their races and become the great friends. But the Ring bearers leave Middle-earth. Forever. Never to return. And with that Magic ends as well. It's all is sad in the Appendices too. But it's understandable that after living "happily ever after" they'll all die. So they do, but the sadness and the feeling of loss remains. I'm unable to come out of it ever and remember how sad I was for weeks before and after I finished the books.
Among all the characters, I find Frodo's ending most appealing. It's mainly 'cause of him and his words said to Sam for reasons of leaving ME that the story becomes as poignant as it is. LotR couldn't have gotten a better ending than this.
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08-21-2014, 07:33 AM | #16 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
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Yes I felt the same way, I thought the ending was bitter sweet, and it left me feeling bereft. Part of that was probably having to say goodbye to middle Earth and characters I had grown to love. It was a mourning period, a feeling of loss, loss that the book had ended, loss that the Elves were leaving ME forever, a sense that magic was leaving the world, that Lothlorien and Rivendell would fade and that Men would now inhabit ME with all their robust no nonsense approach, that industry would cover the land and cement would replace forests. Its a longing for the past, remembrance of a Golden Age, mortality, all things must die.
Its the bitter sweet atmosphere of Autumn when Summer is gently dying, once the leaves have fallen and the acrid smell of bonfires is in the air. The last parts of the book from the time Aragorn is crowned, a feeling of sadness steals over me, amongst all the joy I would have quietly left the feasting, found a quiet spot away from prying eyes and I would have wept many sad tears not knowing quite why. Last edited by FerniesApple; 08-21-2014 at 07:38 AM. |
09-04-2014, 08:33 PM | #17 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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Proof that Tolkien is the greatest author
There are very few things that can leave you with a void after finishing them. Not just sadness that it is over, but an actual void in your existence, that you can only satisfy be reading over it again.
Tolkien was so good at what he did, that I will never be able to fill the void for the remaining 80 years of my life. I'm sure most people will have the same void, which is a hole in your existence that can be sated by reading Tolkien, but never filled unless you travel to Arda. |
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