Was Gollum's slip the only way?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I have been wondering if it was possible for anyone to willingly cast the Ring into the fires of Mount Doom. Gollum slipped and that was how it was destroyed. If Gollum hadn't have been there, what would have happened?
I reckon Sam would have had to push Frodo in to get the job done, whether Sam could do that is a question in itself.
Did anyone in Middle Earth have power over the Ring?

[Tarthang]

Short of a Vala coming to Middle-Earth, it is doubtful that anyone in middle-earthhad power over the ring (discounting Sauron). Tom Bambadil was not affected by the ring, but weather or not he had power over it is debatable.
Personally, I believe Sam would have been able to shove Frodo into the Cracks of Doom were it necessary. But then again, while Frodo had lost the battle to resist the Ring's influence to put it on, we never fully got to see wether or not Frodo mastered the Ring or it he.

[Mithadan]

In one of his Letters, Tolkien speculates on what might have happened if Gollum had failed to wrest the Ring from Frodo and fall into the fires. He suggests that Sam would not have the will or the heart to kill his master. The Ringwraiths would have been summoned to Orodruin. Frodo would not have had the time to learn how to control the Ring nor the strength to truly master it. The Wraiths, nonetheless, would not have been able to assault him. Rather, they would feign obedience and invite him to survey his kingdom. Once Frodo had left the Cracks of Doom, they would have contrived to seal the entrance and either Sauron would have come to seize the Ring or the Wraiths would have carried him to Barad Dur.

I do not think that anyone could destroy the Ring after possessing it as long as Frodo did. This is why the Fellowship was formed; to provide him with assistance to carry the Ring to its destination and to help him marshal the will to destroy it or to do so on his behalf. Whether they would have succeeded is another story. For this reason, I have several times argued that Frodo did not fail in his quest. He did as much as could have possibly been done and perhaps no one else could have done as much. To destroy the Ring was beyond his capacity and would have likely been impossible for anyone who had possessed it for any length of time.

[Tarthang]

Thanks for the info Mithidin. I only have copies of the Hobbit, LOTR, Silm and Lay's of Beleriand (the last two I've only read once). Did not know that Tolkien had addressed the issue. I had also not taken into account the proximity of the Rings master and his servants when mentioning Frodo's possible domination of the ring.

[Tarthang]

Sorry. Thanks Mithadan.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I wonder if it is about the length of time Frodo had been a Ringbearer. What if Sam had wrestled the Ring from Frodo (lets forget that Sam had already held the Ring) Even if a Hobbit had the Ring for one second, would he have been able to do the task?

[Child of the 7th Age]

We really don't know what would have happened if Sam had managed to wrestle with Frodo and grab the Ring from him. You have to remember that the Ring's power was at its highest when it was near the crack of Doom, where it had originally been forged. So Sam might have had an unpleasant surprise; the Ring might have felt much more powerful and its pull more alluring than it had the last time he held it.

Plus, Tolkien clearly says in his Letters that no being in Middle-earth could voluntarily throw away the Ring, unless that being was "perfect", i.e., had no flaws or shadows in his heart. Now, I like Sam a lot, but I wouldn't call him perfect. Just witness his attitude towards Gollum which was much less charitable than that of Frodo. My guess would be that Sam would not be capable of tossing the Ring once he had it in his possession. Remember how hard it was for Frodo to toss it into the fireplace at Bag End when Gandalf told him to do it, and this was before he even understood the nature of the Ring.

Plus, I think Tolkien is trying to say something here about the nature of human effort and of providence. It was the job of Frodo to get the Ring up to the crack of Doom, which he did, despite enormous sacrifice and suffering. But human effort can only do so much. Providence had to intervene and make sure that the final step came about. It was the pity shown by Bilbo, Frodo, and even Sam at the end which allowed providence to operate and use Gollum as an instrument to discard the ring. I think Tolkien felt that human beings can only do so much. There are certain things beyond our limited capabilities. And this was one of them. sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Halfir]

Mithadan and Child of the 7th Age: it's always a pleasure to read your well argued posts, even if I don't always find myself in agreement with them!

With regard to Tolkien's view on what mighthave happened if Gollum had not snapped off Frodo's Ring finger, I am going to quote his own theory of applicability (FOTR; Foreword), in which he stresses the freedom of the reader against the purposed domination of the author. In other words, in this instance, what the reader might believe is as good as what the author might believe!

If Gollum had not finished the Fellowship journey in his destruction of the Ring (albeit inadvertently!) I don't think the Nazgul - driven by the purposed intent of their master - would have feigned obedience to Frodo. I think the Ring - now returned to its womb, the center of power where it had been created -would have taken control- and Frodo (and Sam ) would have been obliged by it to return with the Nazgul to Barad - Dur and Sauron's welcome.

The debate over who speaks, Frodo or the Ring, when Frodo makes his decision not to destroy it, has engendered endless comment. I have always subscribed to the view that here, at the the very center of its power, it was the Ring speeking and not Frodo. At this point, Frodo, as would anyone else in Middle Earth who had made that same journey with the Ring as a burden, surrenders his will to that of the Ring's.

Tom Shippey in his excellent biography of Tolkien makes a very telling point in this respect:"Frodo does not say 'I choose not to do', but 'I do not choose to do'. Maybe (and Tolkien was a professor of language) the choice of words is absolutely accurate. Frodo does not choose; the choice is made for him."

Child of the 7th Age makes a very powerful point about the intervention of Providence, in the form of Gollum biting off the Ring finger. Interestingly enough Tolkien does not use the word 'providence', he uses 'chance'.It was chance, or Providence that Bilbo found the ring, chance or Providence that Gandalf met with
Thorin Oakshield, chance or Providence that Tom Bombadil hapened to be nearby to save the hobbits from Old Man Willow, although Tom enigmatic as ever! says:"Just chance brought me then,if chance you call it." So some Providential power or 'chance' is clearly at work, although it has to be delivered through some agency residing in ME, and seems to favor those who both act positively on their own behalf and use 'luck' in a positive way, and not to harm others.(Shippey)

Gollum's 'luck' was to be accepted by Frodo as a traveling companion, but in the final sequence at Mount Doom, that 'luck' turns against him because he uses it for ill - he reposseses the Ring - only to lose his own life - and that of his precious which he values so dearly.

Which brings me full-circle to my earlier comment regarding the Fellowship journey -in which I included Gollum! Gollum's role in the Fellowship might not be on the same lines as the Nine who set out from Rivendell (Boromir's error not withstanding) but his role as the 'tenth' member of the Fellowship is fundamental to the final cataclysmic destruction of the Ring. Indeed, at that point Gollum is what Frodo might have become if left under the domination of the Ring, and Gollums death might be seen as the 'death' of that part of Frodo's spirit that the Ring had finally controlled.

Though it is not entirely clear what the power was that cast Gollum into the fires of doom, there was definitely some great power at work. Gollum attacked Frodo and Sam on the side of Mount Doom. They could have killed him there, but showed him mercy. There is a paragraph that has describes Sam's view of the scene. He see's Frodo as a tall figure in white clutching at the ring under his shirt. Frodo tells Gollum that if he ever touches him again, he shall be cast into the fires of doom. I believe it is the power of the ring itself that binds the curse and becomes the source of its own destruction when it is in Gollums posession at the time he is cast into the fires of doom. NOTE: I have read The Lord of the Rings several times over the years and it was only in my most recent reading that I realized this relationship.

[Balin999]

Hm there are other discussions about the same topic, so try to search for it, maybe you'll get some answers.

[Kath]

Even if a Hobbit had the Ring for one second, would he have been able to do the task?

Well we know from FotR that even if you have only had the Ring for a minute amount of time you are unable to try to harm it. When Gandalf tells Frodo to throw the Ring into the fire he is unable to do so and Frodo has only really had hold of it for the length of their conversation.

Therefore if any Hobbit had it even for one second the Ring would probably have already exerted an influence strong enough to dissuade the bearer from throwing it into Mount Doom so an accident such as Gollum's fall would have to be the only way unless, as Tolkien said, the bearer was completely pure and flawless - unlikely in a Hobbit.

[Elianna]

It probably should be taken into the picture that Sam was able to resist the Ring, despite having it in his possesion on the border of Mordor with all hope of Frodo living gone.

Even so, Child's probably right (as usual), about Sam not being able to destroy the Ring.

*thinks about it for a while* Gosh, it does seem rather hopeless with Gollum. He had a part to play, and that was it: to die with the Ring.

[Findegil]

Maybe we should look at Letter no. 246 again. It provides not only one allternative ending, but 3 or 4. In on Tolkien started with the scene before Shelobs lair, where Gollum is did nearly repend from his badness and is to easily driven back to by Sam. Had that scene gone other wise Tolkien said Gollum would have helped Frodo to the cracks of Doom. But in the end he would have robbed him of the Ring as well and then jumped in by his one will, seeing in it the only way to help Fordo, to protect the Ring for ever from Sauron and to have it for him self for ever. And with the next sentence Tolkien does tell us that such a deed could have been what Frodo would have done with the Ring if he had have the time to think of it.

Some scatter remarks:
Posted by Kath:

When Gandalf tells Frodo to throw the Ring into the fire he is unable to do so and Frodo has only really had hold of it for the length of their conversation.

Frodo recieved the Ring in the 3001 and the conversation between him and Gandalf was in 3018 so he had it already in his possesion for 17 years. But that does not render the point much: He was nearly not effecte than and was already not able to make such even silly try to harm the Ring.

Posted by Elianna:

Gosh, it does seem rather hopeless with Gollum. He had a part to play, and that was it: to die with the Ring.

That seems to be exactly what Prof. Tolkien thought about him. But if that means there was no Hope for him is a nother question.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Kitanna]

This thread makes me think of little old Bilbo Baggins. He was the only one in the history of the Ring to actually give it up and not have it taken by force or it slipping from his finger and betraying him. And the only reason he gave it up was because of Gandalf.
So would it have been destroyed if Gollum had not fought Frodo for it? I highly doubt it. Sam could never kill Frodo and the Ring had too much of a hold on Frodo for him to even reconsider his choice.
However what if Gandalf had not fallen in Moria and he had gone on with the Fellowship? If he had gone on with Frodo does anyone think Gandalf could have persuaded Frodo like he had Bilbo? Afterall Frodo did not have the Ring as long as Bilbo.
Still nothing short of a sudden character change by Sam would have destroyed that Ring.

[Kath]

If he had gone on with Frodo does anyone think Gandalf could have persuaded Frodo like he had Bilbo? Afterall Frodo did not have the Ring as long as Bilbo.

I always thought (personal opinion though not based on any real facts) that the reason Frodo was so much more affected by the Ring than Bilbo was because when the latter had the Ring Sauron was not really searching for it. He did not know that it had been found and so was not actively seeking it out. When Frodo has the Ring Sauron knows of its existence and (as is said in the film) all his thought is bent on it.

So even if Gandalf was around it would have been far harder if not impossible for him to have persuaded Frodo to let it go as the Ring has had more of an influence on him than it did on Bilbo.

[VanimaEdhel]

Originally Posted by Kath

I always thought (personal opinion though not based on any real facts) that the reason Frodo was so much more affected by the Ring than Bilbo was because when the latter had the Ring Sauron was not really searching for it. He did not know that it had been found and so was not actively seeking it out. When Frodo has the Ring Sauron knows of its existence and (as is said in the film) all his thought is bent on it.

This is actually how I always saw it. At the time when Bilbo was in possession of the ring, Sauron was still fairly weak. He did not yet possess the power to begin actively seeking out the ring. It seems that he and the ring both grew equally in power - each tied to the other, so every burst of energy from one causing an increase in the other. It is almost as though, through the connection, they bolstered each other up to full strength. At the time that Frodo had the ring and was prepared to destroy it, I don't think that any being could have possessed the will power to throw the ring into the fire. Even Sam, who most consider to be even more selfless than Frodo, felt the weight of the ring pretty quickly during the short period of time where he had to hold it. Though he was not yet Mr. Possessive, he began to understand the torture Frodo endured - feeling it much more quickly than Frodo, in fact. I think that the ring had this much effect on Samwise so quickly because Sauron was so close to regaining his former strength.

So even if Gandalf was around it would have been far harder if not impossible for him to have persuaded Frodo to let it go as the Ring has had more of an influence on him than it did on Bilbo.

The ring still did have an effect on Bilbo though. It was a very, very powerfully dark object: even in the depths of its weakness, over time it could still wear away at a person. Look at what it did to Smeagol, corrupting him even as its creator lay almost helpless. It had nowhere near the power it would eventually take on as Sauron regained strength, but it still had the power to inflict and plant evil in the most innocent of places. In so many ways the ring is more powerful than its true creator and master - Sauron depended on it for his own survival, but the ring did not seem to need Sauron to carry on itself. It continued to fulfill its role even when Sauron was incapacitated.

In my mind, the ring is sort of a form of artificial intelligence. It seems to possess a mind of its own - know who it wants to burden and who it wants to remain with. It tries to guide its bearer to a certain location and has such a persuasive manner about it. But, at the same time, it does not express a certain human quality - perhaps spirit or emotion. This makes it even more frightening - it continues its spread of darkness despite what appears to be defeat. It is so vigilant - it does not know fear or hopelessness, it only knows its job and continues so effectively. It controls not only beings such as Frodo and Sam, but its creator as well - Sauron, originally the master (or lord, if you will) of the ring, now finds himself dependent on the ring as the ring is not so dependent on him. I feel that if Sauron had been reunited with the ring and had continued to gain power, even if some being had found the means of destroying Sauron, the ring would survive, find a new bearer to control, and would endure.

[Mithalwen]

The only person who might, and I stress might, in my opinion - and more it is a feeling than anything I could prove, is Elrond. Of all the powerful people in the books he is the least ambitious. He is wise and knows the score. I think maybe if he had taken the ring from Sauron's hand, maybe he could have done it. The fire was close, Sauron was presumably at his weakest. He may have been slower to influence than Isildur. But I don't think he could have made Frodo's journey and done it.

[Findegil]

It is true taht Bilbo did give the Ringa away and that he was the first to do so. But he was not the only one: Sam did it as well, and even was much less help then Bilbo (but after a much shorter time of claiming it).

I don't think that any being in Middle-Earth could have distroied the Ring, not after the War in Second Age nor at any later time. Celebrimbor and Galadriel together were not able to destroy the Elvenrings, so I don't belive Elrond had it made any better then Isildur. And I think he did know it. Not for nothing he said that he would not take the Ring for hidding at the council.

What he could have done in the second Age and what, I think, would have been the best way, was killing Isildur by pushing him over the brink into the fire! And that exactly would have been what Gandalf would have persued Sam or any other surving companien if he had been at the Cracks of Doom. HE could not even have done that within rules of his mission, I think. So he had to bring someelse to do it.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Elladan and Elrohir]

I'm not sure I agree with that. If Sam were to push Frodo in, Frodo would essentially be forced to destroy the Ring, a breach of his free will. Free will, obviously, is a theme that runs throughout all of Tolkien's works, and was deemed by him to be fundamental to the workings of the world. Were Sam to breach Frodo's free will by pushing him into the Crack, it would be equivalent to the Ring, which also broke Frodo's will by forcing him to take It.

So I don't think Gandalf's advice would have been to push Frodo in, just as Cirdan and Elrond did not push Isildur in. They honored his choice of free will, if indeed it was that, and I think Gandalf would have done the same.

But then, the inevitable question is, what would have happened? If we're not to push Frodo in, what happens? How do we destroy the Ring? I think that's an unanswerable question. The One Ring COULD NOT be destroyed by anyone in Middle-earth, of their own will (unless it be Tom Bombadil, who never would have gone to the Crack anyway). And in the end, of course, it was not destroyed by anyone's will. Both Frodo and Gollum sought to preserve it and keep it; and of course Gollum slipped in his gloating.

I look at the above paragraph and realize that it contradicts Tolkien's Letter in which he stated that Gollum or Frodo could have voluntarily thrown themselves and the Ring into the Crack of Doom. This is unfortunate; I try never to go against what the author himself has stated. But perhaps he's wrong this time. Perhaps it would be impossible for Frodo or Gollum to throw themselves in with the Ring.

If anyone spots a hole in my above arguments, please feel free to share it; I'm not even sure I agree with what I said, which happens often when I'm on the Downs.

One possible hole would be: how important is the preservation of free will when the fate of Middle-earth hangs in the balance? Of course, reviewing my arguments, I see that the issue of free will is moot if one agrees that the One Ring cannot be voluntarily destroyed. If one cannot throw himself and the Ring into the Crack, then it follows that one cannot push the person who has the Ring into the Crack, for the same reason.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

If anyone spots a hole in my above arguments, please feel free to share it; I'm not even sure I agree with what I said, which happens often when I'm on the Downs.

Alright then, here's what I want to poke a hole in, though not in the ARGUMENT, persay:

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

So I don't think Gandalf's advice would have been to push Frodo in, just as Cirdan and Elrond did not push Isildur in. They honored his choice of free will, if indeed it was that, and I think Gandalf would have done the same.

COULD Cirdan or Elrond have pushed Isildur in?

Isildur was one of the great in middle-earth. He was Numenorian, of high birth, at the height of his life and powers, and was, by all accounts, a great warrior and leader. Look at his accomplishments: saving the sapling of the White Tree, escaping Numenor, founding Gondor, fighting Sauron. He was a great man.

While Elrond and Cirdan, by dint of their much greater age, were certainly wiser than Isildur- and maybe smarter- I doubt if they were physically stronger. Men and Elves were very much comparable, and in the one case that we have a Man raised by Elves- Turin- he grows up to be stronger than the Elves around him. Isildur, a trained warrior, with quite a few years experience behind him, was probably stronger in arms than Elrond, "the Herald of Gil-galad" and Cirdan "the Shipwright".

I doubt if they COULD have pushed him in...

But, as an addendum, even if they could have pushed him in, how does that negate his free will? After all, they were acting of THEIR own free will...

[Elladan and Elrohir]

It would negate Isildur's free will because he would be physically forced to destroy the Ring, i.e., against his will.

But, like I said in my last paragraph, the point is moot if, as I think, no one could voluntarily destroy the One Ring of Power.

If it came down to it, I'm sure Cirdan and Elrond together probably could have forced Isildur into the Crack. But I don't believe it ever could have gotten that far.

[Halbarad]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

This thread makes me think of little old Bilbo Baggins. He was the only one in the history of the Ring to actually give it up and not have it taken by force or it slipping from his finger and betraying him. And the only reason he gave it up was because of Gandalf.
So would it have been destroyed if Gollum had not fought Frodo for it? I highly doubt it. Sam could never kill Frodo and the Ring had too much of a hold on Frodo for him to even reconsider his choice.
However what if Gandalf had not fallen in Moria and he had gone on with the Fellowship? If he had gone on with Frodo does anyone think Gandalf could have persuaded Frodo like he had Bilbo? Afterall Frodo did not have the Ring as long as Bilbo.
Still nothing short of a sudden character change by Sam would have destroyed that Ring.

I'm surprised that no-one picked this up. Bilbo was NOT the only one to have given up the ring. Sam wore the ring for an extended time on the borders of Mordor, and gave it back to Frodo.

'And it hasn't failed. Not yet. I took it, Mr Frodo, begging your pardon. And I've kept it safe. It's around my neck now, and a terrible burden it is too....But I suppose you must take it back.' Now it had come to it, Sam felt reluctant to give up the Ring, and burden his master with it again.

Sam gave it up, of his own free will, although Frodo did demand it back, and would have probably fought with all his (little) remaining strength to get it back. Now there is a case for the Ring using Sam's reluctance to burden Frodo to try to retain its control over Sam (Sam being, in my opinion being made of less stern stuff than Frodo, even with Frodo's wounds, and easier to dominate). However, it is my view that Sam gave up the Ring because he knew that it was Frodo's task. Despite his love for Frodo, and the knowledge that Frodo would be under enormous pressure from the Ring, he gave it up because he knew the task was Frodo's. Now, in Sammath Naur Sam undergoes a great shock, as he realises what Frodo has done. Frodo has already undergone transformation: his voice is filled with power, but we don't get to see or hear what Sam thought about this.
Now Sam was a simple soul. but I think that he would have been able to realise that Frodo was no longer the master he loved, and, if he had been able to locate Frodo, there is a chance that Frodo would have not been able to dominate Sam.
Sam was an indomitable spirit, but if his spirit had been crushed by Frodo's fall to the Power of the Ring I am uncertain if he would have been able to recover sufficiently to do what had to be done. Or, if he had been able to do it he would have done it and died there.

I'm not sure that I've made a point or not.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

In so many ways the ring is more powerful than its true creator and master - Sauron depended on it for his own survival, but the ring did not seem to need Sauron to carry on itself. It continued to fulfill its role even when Sauron was incapacitated. (Vanima)

It was more powerful than its creator--he had to pour out a large amount of his power to make the little thing.

On a related note, see The True Master by Gurthang.

If we're not to push Frodo in, what happens? How do we destroy the Ring? (Elladan and Elrohir)

If we're looking for someone perfect to destroy the Ring, I believe he resides beyond Arda, unfailing in his commitment to save his Children. A way will be found.

What it is, though, I do not know.

how important is the preservation of free will when the fate of Middle-earth hangs in the balance? (Elladan and Elrohir)

If one is willing to sacrifice free will "for the good of all," then he progresses towards the same path as Sauron. Remember, the Ring was created to dominate other races, so Sauron could build his "paradise" as a rival to Aman (where he refused to go).

Hmmm . . . Second Age-Noldor and Sauron?

[Parmawen]

Originally Posted by Tarthang

Personally, I believe Sam would have been able to shove Frodo into the Cracks of Doom were it necessary. But then again, while Frodo had lost the battle to resist the Ring's influence to put it on, we never fully got to see wether or not Frodo mastered the Ring or it he.

I'm assuming Frodo was mastered by the ring, as opposed to mastering the ring. I thought that he had succumbed to the ring at last and could not resist it's pull, hence putting it on. Besides, Frodo was so weak at that point there's no way he could have won over the force of Sauron.

As for Sam, I don't really believe he could have pushed his master into Mount Doom. His love and devotion for Frodo were stronger than his feelings for Middle-Earth, as far as I could tell. He always seemed to have a smaller perspective of the world, and he'd hold the smaller, familiar things like Frodo closer to him than the wide, broader idea of the world.

In the big picture, I don't think Frodo himself would have been able to destroy the ring, and Sam wasn't about to push him over, so I suppose, sad as it is, it really was the only way for it to be destroyed. I hated in the movie how it's Frodo and Gollum fighting that ends with Gollum slipping over, while in the book, he was dancing with glee, was he not? The movie shows a darker, more evil side of Frodo that I don't like to believe really was there. The ring began with violence, and ended in violence in the movie. It just didn't seem like something Frodo would do. Although he had changed a lot through the movies, so it could have been part of his change. Still, I thought Tolkien handled it much better in the books, leaving us with faith in Frodo and his soul, and content that the Ring was destroyed.

Perhaps the finality of Gollum being destroyed along with the rest of evil (orcs, Sauron, the ring itself) puts an official end to everything, guaranteeing no cheesy sequals and leaving all ends tied up. That way we never have to wonder about if Gollum was recovering from his ownership of the ring afterwards.

[Kath]

Just to pick out something that Parmawen mentioned about how in the film Frodo fought Gollum for the Ring. I always thought that was a little odd because we see Bilbo give up the Ring and see him suddenly become free of it and so it seems the same should happen with Frodo. But then there is some conflict with this idea because Gollum cannot feel free, he is compelled to forever search for the Ring. Is this difference then because of the length of time each bearer had it for, and should Frodo have felt free after Gollum had taken it as he does in the books or should he have been desperate to get it back as in the films?

[Firefoot]

Kath, the difference is that Bilbo gave the Ring away of his own volition; he wanted to. Frodo had the Ring forcibly taken from him - that is, bitten off. Gollum lost it; he had no desire to let the Ring go. When Frodo and Gollum each lost the Ring, neither had any desire to part with it.

The other difference between the book and the movie is that after Gollum bit the Ring off, Frodo did not get back up in the book. Sam had to carry him out of the mountain once Gollum had toppled into the Crack. If Frodo could have, he may well have gotten up and battled Gollum for the Ring in the book. But I don't think that he could have - the Ring, while still in existance, still had power over his mind. If the Ring had not been destroyed, I think it is possible that Frodo himself may have been destroyed (mentally, not physically) by having the Ring so forcibly taken from him after claiming it for his own. Frodo was only at peace after the Ring was destroyed. Even Gollum only lost the Ring; it had not been taken directly from him. Frodo was in such a bad mental state at that point that I don't know if he could have recovered.

[Parmawen]

To bounce off of what Kath said, it could also be the difference in their minds. Gollum had a much weaker mind, and had grown used to possessing the ring after succumbing to its power. It's easy to think that Bilbo had a stronger mind and therefore was able to escape from its power more often, while it was the only thing Gollum had ever loved. Of course, they were both some form of Hobbit, relatively, so the hobbit-strong mind characteristic doesn't quite work...

Bilbo was able to give up the ring only because it was going to Frodo, and with much help from Gandalf.
"...its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing ot on to someone else's care-and that only at an early stage...".
Frodo could have voluntarily given it up to Sam or Gollum, but I don't think he was in a state to do so anymore because I do not think he was able to exercise that much of his own free will. (He could not even keep his own hands off it, Sam had to hold them).

Rememberring that Sam held Frodo's hands to keep him from putting the ring on in the end, I think another possible answer to "How to destroy the ring?" would be that Sam could have restrained Frodo in some way (those dear Elven ropes?), and made the ring fall from Frodo (cut the chain, "dumped" it off his head, etc.) Remember the ring did not affect Sam when he wasn't in possession of it (no extra weight to carrying Frodo, in fact it was less). Or possibly when the Nazgul arrived, they would have somehow attacked Frodo in some way that he or they inadvertently lost the ring over the Cracks of Doom.

Remember that Gandalf was able to quickly return the package containing the ring to the mantle when Bilbo placed it there and it fell? I wonder if he or someone else could have quickly tossed it over the edge without ill effects?

Finally, I do not think that Gollum flung himself into the cracks of doom or that he was pushed in by some "hand of God." I think it was the ring itself that pulled him in. After Gollum attacked Frodo just before enterring Mount Doom, Sam saw Frodo as "a figure robed in white, but at its breast it held a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice,
" Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself ino the Fire of Doom."

So, the wheel of fire, i.e. the RING ITSELF, spoke these words to Gollum, and as Gollum did not heed them, he was cast into the Fire of Doom--along with the ring. So it seems that the ring brought its fate upon itself.

We have seen in other places where evil fell upon itself to its own undoing--the orks fighting in the tower at Cirith Ungol, the two companies of orks on the plains of Mordor fighting to reach the gate first, and upon the plains when they had Merry and Pippin. Also, Saruman fighting with Sauron to both their loss. I think that is a very fitting ending here that the ring in the end destroyed itself--anyway I like it that way.