The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Announcements and Obituaries > The Barrow-Downs
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-17-2003, 04:37 PM   #1
West
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
1420! Is there honestly much left?

If i'm not mistaken, hasn't everything been pretty much covered in topics here? I mean if someone wants to find something out, they just look it up. There really isn't much to talk about except scraps and such. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 04:44 PM   #2
kittygirl02
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 61
kittygirl02 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to kittygirl02
Sting

Well, it's usually the newbies that ask the questions,because they don't know that they've been asked before becasue they've just gotten here,and don't know this stuff. And they're too lazy(nothing against newbies or anything)to sift through and see those things.
__________________
Flames are your source of faith.A tool of good, not evil.

I may be different, but differences don't make you special.It's what you do with your differences that make you special.
kittygirl02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 04:56 PM   #3
Liriodendron
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Liriodendron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Indiana
Posts: 532
Liriodendron has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Scraps! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Nice word! I live for scraps. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
http://www.lizmargason.com
Liriodendron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 05:07 PM   #4
kittygirl02
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 61
kittygirl02 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to kittygirl02
Sting

yep, if you were a dog, you would like it even more.(hinthint)
__________________
Flames are your source of faith.A tool of good, not evil.

I may be different, but differences don't make you special.It's what you do with your differences that make you special.
kittygirl02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 05:15 PM   #5
The Saucepan Man
Corpus Cacophonous
 
The Saucepan Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,467
The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
White-Hand

Hello West. Welcome to the Downs. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

That's an interesting point that you make, and one that has occured to me before. But, on balance, I disagree.

New topics appear in this forum on a daily basis. And a surprisingly large number of them have something new to say, or take a slightly different angle on an aspect of Tolkien's works. A good example is 'The Lord of the Rings and Philosophy' , which Estelyn Telcontar started earlier today.

Yes, sometimes the same issues come up for discussion. But everyone has different opinions, and often a new opinion can shed new light on something that has previously been discussed many times over.

And people can always read through old topics and add their opinions to those. Again, they might bring out a new angle that has been missed before and provoke a whole new discussion.

In any event, I really don't think that everything that can ever be said about Tolkien's works will ever be said. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!
The Saucepan Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 05:21 PM   #6
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

That's like saying that humans have discovered all that there is to discover. People were saying that way back in the Middle Ages, and even at the turn of the century (the 1900s). I think that opinion will always be there, but new perspectives keep forming, and thus, new discussions will be generated. I personally think that it shows the deep-seated love for all things Tolkien-related that the members of this forum have. Most of us can never stop discussing things, even if they're the tiniest, most minute detail. In fact, it's those details that sometimes start the longest topics.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fėanor, and there he slew Finwė King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwė alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 07:54 PM   #7
ladyhwi
Newly Deceased
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: southeastern massachusetts
Posts: 10
ladyhwi has just left Hobbiton.
Do you REALLY expect anyone to weed through thousands of posts for an opinion on the old toby vs southern star or some such thing? I visit to find other insights,another viewpoint or something missed all together another way around a problem or poem. Its a discussion like I could never get in my real life (consumer lending) I enjoy reading what you all have to say.And Newbies keep things fresh and interesting.

I say keep sharing, keep reading and keep thinking. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
"I have not seen thy sunny face, Nor heard thy silver laughter: No thought of me shall find a place In thy young life's hereafter- Enough that now thou will not fail To listen to my fairy-tale." Lewis Carroll
ladyhwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 08:14 PM   #8
Knight of Gondor
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Knight of Gondor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 744
Knight of Gondor has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via Yahoo to Knight of Gondor
Sting

I disagree, every once in a while, I'll think up something to discuss! I must confess more of my attention gets devoted to The Movies than The Books, but occasionally the books too! I think this forum, if not one of the more active ones, will still have its share of fresh and new discussion. Just go read the books again, and see if you can't come up with a new discussion! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16
Knight of Gondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2003, 09:22 PM   #9
Liriodendron
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Liriodendron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Indiana
Posts: 532
Liriodendron has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
yep, if you were a dog, you would like it even more
Meow!

[ October 17, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]
__________________
http://www.lizmargason.com
Liriodendron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2003, 03:07 AM   #10
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,529
Estelyn Telcontar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Estelyn Telcontar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Silmaril

Scraps can make gorgeous new works of art - take it from a patchworker! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Though I have sometimes thought it's all been discussed here before, topics keep coming up - some that fascinate me, some that don't, but are interesting to others. I think that there will be something new and interesting to talk about as long as there are new, interesting members joining the Downs. Each person brings a unique viewpoint with her or him, and this, added to the depth of Tolkien's writing, will keep book discussions going.

As for movie discussions, RotK will keep us talking till the EE is released, at least, so we're not finished with that yet!

Since this topic is not a book discussion, I am moving it to the Barrow-Downs forum (Announcements and Obituaries). Please keep it going there!
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2003, 08:24 AM   #11
Sharkū
Hungry Ghoul
 
Sharkū's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
Sharkū has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The reason why I think all Tolkien discussion, even the simple topics and questions, and even those which have been asked many times, are by nature good, welcome and even needed are because that is the only way new topics, ideas and theories can arise. It is hardly imaginable that someone would read the Legendarium and come up with a new idea which has never been thought of before right away. Discourse, naturally especially so on a high level, is the way to go to derive new insights. Many Books topics take a slightly different direction than intented if something was posted that interested someone else, but did not address the question of the thread directly.
As a side note, I urge everyone who opens such a new matter of discussion (if it is valuable) to open a new thread, appropriately entitled, and cross-refer in both the original thread and the new one. This greatly enhances the quality of the forum as a resource by making searching easier and more effective.
Sharkū is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2003, 12:44 PM   #12
Yavanna228
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: on the wings of the morning
Posts: 410
Yavanna228 has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

*applauds*
Quite right, Sharku.
Also, part of me wonders if the issue of Balrog wings would have been considered 'scraps'(probably is [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]), yet it has generated much discussion. I suppose scraps are in the eye of the beholder.
Peace

[ October 19, 2003: Message edited by: Yavanna228 ]
__________________
'Dulaman na Binne Bui, Dulaman Gaelach/ Dulaman na farraige, 's e b'fhearr a bhi in Eirinn!'
Yavanna228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2003, 01:43 PM   #13
Child of the 7th Age
Spirit of the Lonely Star
 
Child of the 7th Age's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,135
Child of the 7th Age is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Sting

I had mixed feelings when I first read your comments. It's true that there have been times when I came up with a question intending to post, and then discovered that another thread already covered the same ground. So, in that sense, I do sympathize with what you're saying.

But, the longer I reflected on your question, I realized there's more than one way to approach the issue of new threads and ideas. First, I don't think it's asking too much to expect people to check back threads before they post a totally new question. In general, we're asking people to stop and think before they open up a new area of discussion, especially in an area like books.

Remember that the important thing on this site is not the number of new threads that go up here in a day or week. It's the quality of those threads and questions. In almost two years, I've read hundreds of threads here, many of which were totally forgettable. But there were others that stick in my mind and heart: some of them funny, some of them lyrical, and others showing insight and real feeling. It's those that make coming here worthwhile for me. Checking out what people have said in the past is just one part of that whole process.

Secondly, Sharku is right. Even if you pull up an older thread, read through it. You may well find there's something in it that isn't clear or wasn't addressed at all. Sometimes the best thing is simply to respond on that same thread and, by so doing, lift it up to the top of the heap for folk to add further ideas and comments. Other times, you come up with a question that's slightly different than the original one so you start a new thread. And, as Sharku suggests, it's helpful to put in a link referring people to the earlier topic.

Just think about this....people have been discussing authors like Homer and Shakespeare for hundreds or thousands of years, and I have a feeling they're still going to be discussing these authors a long time in the future! No one is saying that there's no more to discuss.

The real issue is not that we've exhausted all possible topics. It's a question of using your imagination and brains to come up with a slightly different approach or view. And you don't have a Ph.d. in Tolkienology to do this! Ask yourself a creative "what if" question and post it in Novices and Newcomers, something that's not been done to death before. All it takes is some imagination.

Or, go out and read something Tolkien wrote that you haven't looked at before, something other than LotR. UT and most of HoMe, for example, are now available in small paperback format. Buy one of these or get it at your libary. Then compare Tolkien's writings in LotR or Silm with what you see in the volume of HoMe you're reading: you should have no trouble coming up with questions that haven't been discussed here before.

I guess an honest answer would be this. If you just want to skim things lightly, without giving it too much effort, then a lot of the obvious questions have already been posted on this site. But, if you're willing to stand back a minute and invest a little of yourself--maybe even read something new, you can and will come up with new ideas.
__________________
Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.
Child of the 7th Age is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2003, 01:45 PM   #14
Ainaserkewen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Ainaserkewen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A cosmic waiting room
Posts: 766
Ainaserkewen has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Ainaserkewen
Sting

I don't know about new threads or topics, but the downs seem slow to me right now. Less is happening and less frequently. But I know that little problem will be fixed up nicely when ROTK movie comes out. Firstly, we'll get tons of new little down's members running around, and then all the contraversy of the movie itself. Right now though, things are kinda slow in general. I wonder if theres something that could be done to speed things up again, until Dec. 17, like something new that everyone can participate in.
__________________
Solus... I'm eating chicken again.
I ate chicken yesterday and the
day before... will I be eating
chicken again tomorrow? Why am I
always eating chicken?
Ainaserkewen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2003, 04:31 PM   #15
Sharkū
Hungry Ghoul
 
Sharkū's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
Sharkū has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

From experience, I would never ever complain about the forum in general being slow again.
Sharkū is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:13 PM   #16
Mhoram
Dead and Loving It
 
Mhoram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars.
Posts: 363
Mhoram has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The act of discussing is something worthwhile in and of itself. It is much enlightening to discuss things for yourself than to just read what others have said. Besides, if we left alone everything that has already been discussed, the forum would cease to be a forum and become just a reference tool.
Mhoram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 03:53 PM   #17
Luthien_ Tinuviel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Luthien_ Tinuviel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel.
Posts: 804
Luthien_ Tinuviel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Luthien_ Tinuviel Send a message via MSN to Luthien_ Tinuviel
Sting

Quote:
I think that there will be something new and interesting to talk about as long as there are new, interesting members joining the Downs.
*applauds* But I hope you think us older members are worthwhile, too. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Can't we keep things interesting? I sincerely hope so.
__________________
I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand.

You know what? I love Mip.
Luthien_ Tinuviel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 05:32 PM   #18
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

There will never be nothing left to discuss about Tolkien or Middle-earth. That's all that I have to say. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fėanor, and there he slew Finwė King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwė alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 12:26 AM   #19
lindil
Seeker of the Straight Path
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal
Posts: 1,680
lindil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
There will never be nothing left to discuss about Tolkien or Middle-earth. That's all that I have to say.
Especially since the editors of Vinyar Tengwar seem determined to strech out the publication of Tolkien's Linguistic writings [and historical scraps [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]] for as long a period as it took to see all of the Dead Sea Scrolls!

Actually, in the last few years we have seen a whole new level of scholarship in Tolkiendom, with Flieger's A question of Time and Splintered Light 2nd ed., Oxford Philology Prof.[!] Tom Shippey's Author of the Century and THe Road to Middle-Earth: How JRRT created a New Mythology 2nd ed. and the compilation of essays in Tolkien's Legendarium. Not too mention Tolkien's rather major essay [in density and import, if not length] Osanwe-Kenta and the River and Beacon hills of Gondor. Heck, I am having a hard time catching up with everything I can afford to get!

Of course ingesting is one thing, assimilating another and actually participating in communal discourse another altogether...
__________________
The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.
lindil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 12:34 AM   #20
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,846
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

One might also note the resurgence of activity in the Books - activity on threads yet unexplored here, even.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 04:52 PM   #21
Lush
Fair and Cold
 
Lush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the big onion
Posts: 1,803
Lush is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to Lush Send a message via AIM to Lush Send a message via Yahoo to Lush
Sting

Yeah, the Books is having a little renaissance, I believe.
__________________
~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~
Lush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2004, 06:28 PM   #22
Imladris
Tears of the Phoenix
 
Imladris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby.
Posts: 1,494
Imladris has just left Hobbiton.
White Tree

Well...after much thinking and pondering, I have decided to revive this old thread.

I suppose you are right when you say that we can never finish talking about Tolkien's work, yet how much of that is splitting ends? Is that really....shall we say, good? How much is accomplished when we split ends? How much of Tolkien's work is disenchanted? Yes, I know this has already been addressed twice over in threads such as the Canonicity one I think...but there is a saying that I think applies here: Trying to disect a joke is like disecting a frog. In the end, they both die.

I haven't been here long, I know that I am probably out of place, and I know that I am not a Tolkien doctor, but it seems to me as if this forum is getting flat...stale...like a bottle of coke that has been in Tolkien's sun for too long.

I just think that it would be healthful for the Downs to expand. Right now it seems so...one dimensional...and is that a good thing? There are so many fantasy books out there (Narnia for one) that are just as good as LotR. Maybe we could discuss mythologies (mythologies that Tolkien built his legendarium on) such as Beowulf and the other Norse myths -- maybe even the Greek/Roman/Egyptian myths.

Let me tell you all that I love this forum and that you guys are the best mods ever. I have never seen a cleaner forum, or a more controled forum. And that is the reason I have not left it yet.

And I still love this forum too. I do think it's great...

So cheers to all.

Imladris
__________________
I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns.


Last edited by Imladris; 05-23-2004 at 06:58 PM.
Imladris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2004, 01:12 AM   #23
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,301
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
look around

Quote:
haven't been here long, I know that I am probably out of place, and I know that I am not a Tolkien doctor, but it seems to me as if this forum is getting flat...stale...like a bottle of coke that has been in Tolkien's sun for too long.

look at this: The Most Vivid Discussion Of Past Several Months

And note that main bulk of the participants are around for more than two years, and some even up to four. Would not they 'have seen it all" already? And yet, and yet, they keep breaking lances for more than 8 pages, hehe...

edit: Imladris, I have found you there. And you still think we are approaching an end of days?
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

Last edited by HerenIstarion; 07-15-2004 at 09:36 AM. Reason: spelling
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2004, 04:18 AM   #24
Lhunardawen
Hauntress of the Havens
 
Lhunardawen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,618
Lhunardawen has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Lhunardawen
Silmaril

At times I do feel that there is nothing more to discuss, but whenever I read the books again I gain new insights that I feel like discussing, only I feel quite shy initiating a thread. Guess it's time to overcome my timidity...
Lhunardawen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2004, 04:33 AM   #25
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,301
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
Starting a thread is a hard thing, for sure. What with all my 2,8K posts, I have started no more than two dozen, great part of which proved rubbish, and what is still on-goin is quotes and quizzes mostly.
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2004, 12:29 PM   #26
Imladris
Tears of the Phoenix
 
Imladris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby.
Posts: 1,494
Imladris has just left Hobbiton.
White Tree

Quote:
And you still think we are approaching and end of days?
I never said that. I still think that there are excellent threads out there such as the Canonicity one, though I do think that it began to be splitting ends.

As long as there are human minds there will always be new opinions, new thoughts on subjects...I never denied that.

As for my analogy between the coke and Tolkien's sun, flat coke tastes good too. This forum isn't dying per se...

I guess my main thing is that it'd be kinda cool if the forum could expand and those were my reasons.
__________________
I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns.

Imladris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2004, 11:03 PM   #27
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,301
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
ah, probably, I see your point. For myself, sometimes I half wish I haven't yet read anything by Tolkien, so the whole thing would still lie before me. On the other hand, probably I would not get same effects if I were to read it as I am now. We wonders, yes, my precious, we wonders...
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2004, 12:12 PM   #28
Balin999
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Posts: 521
Balin999 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Balin999
I haven't read the arguments of the others, but for me discussing Tolkien has becoming quiet uninteresting, that's why I don' post that often lately. And since I'm here since more or less the beginning, I guess I have read and seen most of the subjects, though I didn't post on them.
I hope that the desire to think about tolkien will come back soon, since I re-read the LotR, Hobbit and Silmarillion.
We'll see.
But I guess in such a big forum, you can't avoid topics being covered twice by different people.
Allthough you can use the search function, there will always be different opinions nad different interpretations on similar topics.
__________________
...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber...

...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity...

...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...
Balin999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2004, 07:24 PM   #29
Liriodendron
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Liriodendron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Indiana
Posts: 532
Liriodendron has just left Hobbiton.
1420!

Well, things have been discussed so much, in the last five years, on many forums, that there now seems to be "answers" for everything. I feel like.... what's the point of spouting off my *light* veiw of something, when some "loremaster" type will come right in and tell me the thoroughly researched, actual factual answer to something. I'm not saying that as a put down, or in a combative way, it just sort of takes the fun out of shooting the bull!
__________________
http://www.lizmargason.com
Liriodendron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2004, 07:35 PM   #30
Imladris
Tears of the Phoenix
 
Imladris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby.
Posts: 1,494
Imladris has just left Hobbiton.
White Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liriodendron
Well, things have been discussed so much, in the last five years, on many forums, that there now seems to be "answers" for everything. I feel like.... what's the point of spouting off my *light* veiw of something, when some "loremaster" type will come right in and tell me the thoroughly researched, actual factual answer to something. I'm not saying that as a put down, or in a combative way, it just sort of takes the fun out of shooting the bull!
That's another reason why I thought it would be rather fun for the BDs to expand because not everyone is a loremaster at everything.
Imladris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2004, 10:24 AM   #31
Balin999
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Posts: 521
Balin999 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Balin999
I don't think that you need to be a loremaster. Even someone "uneducated" in Tolkien can bring up interesting questions or aspects that have been left out by others. It would be boring if we only had overeducated know-it-alls, don't you think?

There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers.
__________________
...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber...

...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity...

...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...
Balin999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2004, 02:29 AM   #32
Saraphim
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Saraphim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The other side of freezing.
Posts: 410
Saraphim has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Saraphim
The Eye

My dad told me a story about a guy who wanted to close the patent office in like, 1902 or something because he said that everything that could be invented had been.

Now, this story is impossible to verify as being true, since I'm not sure where my dad got it from, but my piont is this: that things are still out there to be though of, as long as we've got weirdos with imaginations. And you'de be hard-pressed to find a place with more imaginative weirdos than the Downs.
__________________
I drink Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters!
~
Always remember: pillage BEFORE you burn.
Saraphim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2004, 11:56 AM   #33
The Only Real Estel
Raffish Rapscallion
 
The Only Real Estel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 3,025
The Only Real Estel has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

No, there'll never be a shortage of things being talked about on the Downs of all places .
Hey, this thread is a good example of that. One person wanted to know if there was anything left to talk about, & we've responded with 32 (counting mine) posts on it so far! That's a good example of why we'll never run out of things to say, discuss, argue, & laugh about.
Cheers,
Estel
The Only Real Estel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2004, 10:21 PM   #34
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,301
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
Even if it took us 8 months to come up with all this...
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 11:27 PM   #35
Diamond18
Eidolon of a Took
 
Diamond18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: my own private fantasy world
Posts: 3,561
Diamond18 is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Let's get ready to ramble...

Interesting question. I've actually been reading this thread for a while, but haven't posted yet since I have not visited the discussion forums in months (I post in Esty's RPG when I have ideas, check out what's going on here so I'm not totally clueless, and that's about it). So I've suspected that most people will just jump up to give me a lecture on never saying that there's nothing left to wonder. Personally, my only reply to that is that while life and the world contains infinite things to discover and discuss -- Tolkien doesn't, and to imply that his works are truly limitless is to think he somehow achieved full God-like creator powers. He is a man who wrote an amazing legendarium, which will still never compare to the wealth of ancient mythos from around the world and all the different fictional works of the modern era when taken as a whole, which in turn will never compare to the ever changing mysteries of non-fiction a.k.a. real life. There is a good reason there's a cliché that says "variety is the spice of life", which is why I'm very reluctant to agree with those who say you can never devote too much thought to the Professor. As a collective site, maybe not, but for each individual member, I think there is a limit. Some have a much more voracious appetite than others, but still.

I'm not as interested in delving into it as I once was. But that is purely a personal change of inclination. The Barrow Downs will keep getting new members who are fresh and excited about Tolkien (as has been said by others in this thread) and so as long as they're discovering new things about his works there will be things to discuss here. Maybe somewhere at some time they have been discussed already, but not by the same minds, and that is what should matter. So I see the whole issue of there "not being much left", as applying more accurately to personal feeling -- for some people (and I happen to be one) there is a point you reach where you realize that you don't want to know anything more about Tolkien, not because you think you know everything (I haven't even read HoME) but because you want instead to learn about something else entirely. I only have so much time in the day and so much head space to use. I mainly devote my computer time to my original writing and writers' group, and my writing is far more inspired by other authors whose works are "off topic" here, so hence the lessening interest in dissecting Tolkien as time goes on. All strictly personal views and reasons.

So I see what Imladris means about expanding. But I don't really see that happening to this site: it is a Tolkien site, and as such is inherently limited to a very narrow list of subjects. It would have to change its very nature to "expand" into something that no one will ever tire of or feel has been personally exhausted. And why should it change? The fact that some members drift away is the nature of the beast, and there is no shame is lessening interest. That will happen whenever you narrow something down to a certain subject, even if it's a broad or deep one. There will always be a point where you get "off topic", and that can feel stifling when you start to discover different things you're excited about. So you would have to remain really into Tolkien to be able to keep finding original things to discuss about him, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Some members will return after a time, some won't, but the BD doesn't need to change to compensate since it gets reborn with every new batch of eager minds. Things would be much different if it was a small site with a mostly unvarying base of members. Then I think it would have to change with those people to stay alive. As it is, there are other sites and other forums for discussing other things, much as it may be painful to be a Newbie somewhere all over again. But such is life.

I'm not sure why I wrote that dissertation on a subject that's been well discussed (ha, déją vu!) except that I've always been fascinated by the nature of growth and change, in people, places, etc. When is it good and healthy to move on or alter your purpose, and when should you stick to what you've been doing or believing? Perhaps that's too broad a question though, as it's practically the same thing as the debate between fundamentalism and liberalism. So to put it a different way, what is the difference between a fad you shake your head at later, and something that, while you may not always be as deeply engrossed in, you will still count as time well spent and a valuable learning experience? I know I stated one difference in the phrases "shake head at later" and "valuable learning experience", but both of those still have lasting impact on your memory, so there's probably less difference than you'd think.
__________________
All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.
Diamond18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2004, 12:10 AM   #36
Imladris
Tears of the Phoenix
 
Imladris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby.
Posts: 1,494
Imladris has just left Hobbiton.
Just because I want to be difficult --

The BDs wouldn't change hardly at all if they studied the mythos that Tokien himself studied. It would still be a Tolkie site -- not a LotR site. It'd be like it was just going deeper into what Tolkien himself did...if that makes sense...

Quote:
Tolkien doesn't, and to imply that his works are truly limitless is to think he somehow achieved full God-like creator powers. He is a man who wrote an amazing legendarium, which will still never compare to the wealth of ancient mythos from around the world and all the different fictional works of the modern era when taken as a whole, which in turn will never compare to the ever changing mysteries of non-fiction a.k.a. real life.
Ditto ditto ditto to infinity!

Cheers,
Imladris
__________________
I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns.

Imladris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2004, 01:57 PM   #37
Diamond18
Eidolon of a Took
 
Diamond18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: my own private fantasy world
Posts: 3,561
Diamond18 is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
White Tree Tales Before Tolkien

Quote:
The BDs wouldn't change hardly at all if they studied the mythos that Tokien himself studied. It would still be a Tolkie site -- not a LotR site. It'd be like it was just going deeper into what Tolkien himself did...if that makes sense...
Good point. Have you read or seen this (fairly new) book out called Tales Before Tolkien: The Roots of Modern Fantasy ? It's a little different kind of LotR related book than most of hte ones out there, featuring stories that supposedly inspired Tolkien. Once upon a time I got it from the library thinking I'd read them all and then post up a spiffy BD thread discussing the various stories and their possible impact on different aspects of his writings .... but I never actually got around to reading the book. So I'm not even sure what basis the claim that those are stories which inspired Tolkien is founded on. A heh heh heh.... These day I seem to be full of clever intentions that never actually come to fruition.
__________________
All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.
Diamond18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2004, 09:23 AM   #38
Rimbaud
The Perilous Poet
 
Rimbaud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Heart of the matter
Posts: 1,096
Rimbaud has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe On the orginal question...

This is really questioning most of academia, particularly the literary side. Not that the field should be bereft of question and left unchallenged by any means, but the question is perhaps broader than suspected.

For example, certain authors have been studied for thousands of years (some by JRRT himself). Others for several hundred years - and some chap from Stratford-upon-Avon is a good example of this. You may imagine that several million people studying the Bard for a over three hundred years might deaden the field a little, but far from it. Try asking a full-time Shakespeare-scholar (I know a couple) that there is little left to say, and they will smile at you, perhaps affectionately, but with a certain tiredness and a glint in the eye that speaks of a long conversation to come...

Not to compare Professor and Bard directly, mind, but if the text still has an effect on people (I removed the word 'profound' from that clause, but I'll hear argument), then there will still be much to discuss.

I'll take this argument to a somewhat long-winded but logical end-point: so long as people are unique and have unique reactions to events and stimuli, including literature, then discussion of those matters shall continue; from the mundane to the sublime. The key ancillary to this is, of course, that we must invest much in the education of each generation so that at least such discourse is fruitful.

Rimsky
__________________
And all the rest is literature
Rimbaud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2004, 05:26 AM   #39
Lhunardawen
Hauntress of the Havens
 
Lhunardawen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,618
Lhunardawen has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Lhunardawen
Silmaril

I'm reviving this thread due to an observation of mine in The Books subforum. Whether I am merely hallucinating or someone has noticed this as well, I would like to hear your opinions.

I noticed that The Books has not been as active as it used to be since the Chapter-by-Chapter started. Don't get me wrong, I love posting there and I believe it is a great addition to the forum. But does this mean that most of the things we would like to discuss regarding the books are being, or will be, discussed there? Or is our worst nightmare of the lack of things to talk about finally coming true?

Or maybe it's just my vision problems...

Last edited by Lhunardawen; 08-27-2004 at 05:29 AM. Reason: nothing...
Lhunardawen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2004, 06:03 AM   #40
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,529
Estelyn Telcontar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Estelyn Telcontar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Lhunardawen, as I see it, the Books forum had slowed down considerably before the CbC sub-forum opened. That is due to many factors - no more movies to anticipate, so we've had much less traffic in the last few months; real life, which always gets in the way of online presence at some time, so that some formerly active posters have less time here; and the simple fact that there have been so many discussions already that it's difficult to find a fresh topic or point-of-view. Since the Chapter-by-Chapter sub-forum opened, it drew people back into discussions and sparked some branches that grew new leaves (= threads) on Books.

The slowing down you've observed came first, not as a result of the CbC discussions.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:15 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.