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Old 05-10-2007, 06:44 AM   #761
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.
There were attempts like that before - unfortunately, I have to disappoint you, no. The events described in the middle part are not just "general", but refer to one specific significant coming of darkness, another significant depart of darkness, another significant return of darkness, not just to changes within some war or whatever, which would, in the way you present it, need to copy the Wars of Beleriand, like "coming, going, coming even near, coming" etc.

One more note: I guess the main fault most people make is not taking in account what was proven to be a wrong way by others. First person posts some answer, saying that X means something. I tell him that X was wrong and meant some other way. The second person takes care about X, but misinterpretates Y. I tell him that Y is meant differently and suggest him to think of it. Then third person comes and thinks about Y correctly, but misinterpretates X again the same way the first person did. I suggest verifying your guesses on what was said here before you post your own answers.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-10-2007, 06:48 AM   #762
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Usch. I have been following the thread and I didn't bother to recheck it if there had been a similar guess (since I had forgotten about Eomer's guess)...

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Old 05-10-2007, 06:50 AM   #763
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Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.
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Originally Posted by Thinlómien
Usch. I have been following the thread and I didn't bother to recheck it if there had been a similar guess (since I had forgotten about Eomer's guess)...

Never mind. Keep trying
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-10-2007, 01:38 PM   #764
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Well, I'm going to try again, and I fear I'm way off course now, and I'm not sure I've retained the two crucial points I hit before, but it can't hurt to try..and you haven't said it's a person....


Beleriand?

For so long time I'm here - yes, very long
though not from start of times. - not quite
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part. - Melkor fled to Beleriand and built Utumno there (unless it was further north?)

I saw how Darkness comes, - The first coming of Morgoth
I saw how it departs. - Morgoth defeated
I saw how it returns, - Morgoth come again to Angband
I saw the death of stars, - The Silmarils thrown into the sea and into a fiery chasm
I saw corrupted hearts. - Many many corrupted hearts it would have seen.

Once They will come to me -
to undo treachery - the Valar came to Beleriand, defeated Morgoth, and pardoned the Noldor
at that day, it all ends -
I'll die by my own hands. - Beleriand was destroyed and sunk into the sea......
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Old 05-10-2007, 02:00 PM   #765
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Interesting, interesting... good, inventive ideas - at least some... though, Beleriand is not the right answer. As I said earlier, the riddle goes chronologically (except for the "opening" lines), so "Death of stars" must have preceded to "They will come to me", which, in the case of Beleriand as you present it, was not true - the Valar came and THEN the Silmarils were cast to the Sea, fiery chasm, whatever. Also, Utumno was definitely further north - maybe Angband, but still, Beleriand was, as I understand it, the name of the land between Ered Engrin and Ered Luin and the Sea, so Angband itself wouldn't count in it... but in something, you are on right track and again one step closer - though I might say that you didn't retain the points from before
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-10-2007, 02:04 PM   #766
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Ah, I see the error of my ways, yes, I was forgetting the order in which things happened.

Interesting...I shall have to think still more on this. I must say, this is one heck of a riddle you have posed. Good job you were not Gollum..or should I say Gollum was not you?
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Old 05-11-2007, 08:03 AM   #767
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Did I already guess "The One Ring" ?
Quote:
For so long time I'm here
though not from start of times.
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part.

I saw how Darkness comes,
I saw how it departs.
I saw how it returns,
I saw the death of stars,
I saw corrupted hearts.

Once They will come to me
to undo treachery
at that day, it all ends
I'll die by my own hands.
The greatest treachery would then be how Sauron decieves Celembribor and all that Jazz.

Sauron rise to power, Sauron is defeated. The death of stars could be the clouding that Sauron sends over Mordor and Gondor, but this kind of limits the corrupted hearts. . . I wanted it to be the Nazgul, but then again it could also have been Boromir, or even Frodo and Frodo would actually be an alright answer if it is to be chronologically.

well, when the ring is cast into the fire then all that it has "made" will be undone and it kind of dies by its own hands. I mean if it did not have that drawing on people then Gollum would never take it from Frodo.

But seing that you said the Beleriand was on the right track, I think this is wrong.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:26 AM   #768
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Beleriand was on right track in one thing, in which you actually are on right track as well. And I might say you are very close in some things, Rune. Just think. "I'll die by my own hands..." the Ring didn't "die" by its own hands... Rune, don't let someone steal the thread from you, you are probably the closest of all who were here...
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:01 PM   #769
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Yet I will hinder it, if I may!

Orodruin? The fiery Chasm, the Sammath Naur?


For so long time I'm here - a very long time
though not from start of times. - no, Illuvatar formed it, or it formed itself - volcanoes tend to do that.
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part. - Sauron's forging of the One Ring, deceiving the Elves

I saw how Darkness comes, - Sauron coming to Mordor
I saw how it departs. - Sauron defeated for a while
I saw how it returns, - Sauron comes back and rebuilds Barad-Dur
I saw the death of stars, - Like Rune said, the covering of the skies? Orodruin took a part in this though. Also, the death of Gil-galad, but that's out of order.
I saw corrupted hearts. - Frodo and Smeagol of course

Once They will come to me - Frodo and Sam and Smeagol
to undo treachery - to destroy the Ring
at that day, it all ends - everything built by Sauron with the Ring is destroyed, and...
I'll die by my own hands. - the mountain pretty much explodes
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Old 05-12-2007, 05:26 AM   #770
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Thumbs up We have a winner!

Indeed, it was Orodruin. But to be precise, the "death of stars" I originally thought of referring to Gil-Galad and the "go-return" was supposed to be about the time when Sauron was taken to Númenor and returned. Then, of course, the "corrupted hearts" would refer primarily to Isildur and then you can add almost everyone else to it...

So, Beregond, it's yours now
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-13-2007, 12:32 PM   #771
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Yay! Now, I admit I'm not a great riddler, but I'll do my best.

By falling of my namesake did I dwell,
Till from the mountains came a fell.
Then promise was made to seal my fate,
Yet in the end I came too late.
Stubborn in ways, and bane of King,
Listen close, for still I sing.
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Old 05-13-2007, 02:01 PM   #772
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Beautiful riddle! Though I really don't know the answer

Hmm... maybe Nimrodel?

By falling of my namesake did I dwell, - the waterfall of Nimrodel
Till from the mountains came a fell. - the Orcs in the Mountains
Then promise was made to seal my fate, - she went to the south with Amroth
Yet in the end I came too late. - Amroth's ship was already away when she came there
Stubborn in ways, and bane of King, - "the King" is Amroth, of course: an elven king
Listen close, for still I sing. - it's said her voice still sings there.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-13-2007, 02:10 PM   #773
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Gaaaaaah, you're way too smart. Nimrodel is precisely right. The only thing you didn't answer was "stubborn", which was because she still spoke the Silvan tongue when it had fallen into disuse amongst the other elves of Lorien.
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Old 05-14-2007, 04:51 PM   #774
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Question

Oh, must be the practice Okay, let's go with another...

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high.
Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again!


P.S. Sorry for the little dots - please ignore them, there should have been blank spots there to make it look nicer, but the Downs do not support stand-alone blank points. There was no better option, since with indents it would look very nasty and deadly for your eyes and brains.
P.P.S. And sorry for the whole riddle... You know, this just sometimes happens...
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:36 AM   #775
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I say Treebeard

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high. - he sang songs about Beleriand, so he must have been around the world; and he is tall
Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast. - he was present from the beginning together with other old Ents
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me. - everything was ok

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help. - he might either mean the gards of Isengard killed by Dunlanders, or Numenoreans (as High Man is a translation for tarkil, which means Men of the West more or less)
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this. - again, not sure who is meant by this

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned. - not sure which bringer...Gandalf
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone. - perhaps the Entwives that left

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name? - some do, but most don't
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor. - the Rohirrim feared the trees and considered them a legend

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all. - Isengard and Saruman's machines
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone. - Gandalf that came to Fangorn and then again left possibly

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return, - as in the last riddle, Sauron's clouds
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come. - Sauron's return
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer. - Aragorn that came to Orthanc
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him. - the Keys of Orthanc, that were found during the Ents' victory

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me! - he made sure Saruman and Grima didn't escape
Years uncounted must have passed by me - quite old
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again! - could be interpreted as getting rid of Saruman

I know I haven't found matches for everything, but I think it's him.
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Old 05-15-2007, 10:08 AM   #776
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Sting

Good try, but it's not correct, though I agree with you that for example the part with the garden and cold stone strongly evokes Treebeard. Though, it's not like that. Some of the other parts wouldn't probably much go together with Treebeard.

Though the riddle is not as consistent as these before (and it's terribly long, for which I apologize once again, because it can surely prove quite distracting; on the other hand, the more info you have, the better), there is more or less continuity and time-dependance. At least in that way, that the beginning of the riddle is the beginning also chronologically, and that the end is also the end chronologically (which is probably obvious even without me saying that). But the riddle is self-consistent at least in the separate strophes - the theme of each strophe is still around the same thing, so you may use it as basis (though I more or less tried also to keep it chronological even strophe by strophe, though it's somewhat switching, moving or blending timelines together somewhere).
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-15-2007, 11:46 AM   #777
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Could it be...the Barrow-wight?

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high. -
from the height of the barrows
Before the darkness I found my friends here, -
buried
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast. -
before the Witch-king sent evil spirits from Angmar and Rhudaur
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me. -
[font=Verdana][size=-1]Originally the barrows were the resting places of the Dunedain and their ancestors, but the Barrow-downs were abandoned when the Dunedain were stricken by the Great Plague of 1636[/size][/font]

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.-
maybe the last Prince of Cardolan

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned. -
Frodo and his friends
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name? -
pretty clear
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor. -
all know that area as a place of dread

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine? -
the curse from the Witch-king
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone. -
Frodo and the others

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him. -
from this tomb came the swords of Westernesse, one of which helped defeat the Witch-king

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me! -
warder to the Hobbits
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again! -
as Tom came stones rolled away and light came into the barrow
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Old 05-15-2007, 12:09 PM   #778
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No, though good attempt, not the answer I'm looking for. I know the images presented in the riddle are very much "general" in many aspects, there are particularities, which can give you very good advice... and you wouldn't explain them with your current answers.

Keep trying
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 05-21-2007, 03:53 PM   #779
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Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.
Don't tell me you are giving it up, I hope this is just a break! Because actually, the riddle is pretty easy. (and that itself is a hint)
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:02 PM   #780
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Maybe the Redhorn?
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:05 PM   #781
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Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.Legate of Amon Lanc has passed beneath the Argonath.
Nope (I'm sure you will find things in the riddle that wouldn't fit). But you are very close (in one very important aspect).

P.S. And as I said, it's easy! Indeed VERY easy. (and cf. what I said above, that itself is a hint)
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."

Last edited by Legate of Amon Lanc; 06-18-2007 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:38 PM   #782
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:40 PM   #783
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Hmm, well then that's really far...
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-25-2007, 06:19 AM   #784
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Maybe Earendil in Vingilot.
If the legends about Vingilot made out of mithril are true, then it should be quite light as well.
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:43 AM   #785
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No way. That's all too far. Redhorn was a very, very, very close answer in several aspects.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:44 AM   #786
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Shield

I say Minas Ithil.

Built in friendship, and existing before it saw darkness itself. Witnessing the High Man fall far from home (Earnur). Abandoned, name taken away, new name of terror; and prison of stone. This is all straight-forward. I can't quite make the end fit, though.
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:19 AM   #787
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Question

There are also two events left that you won't be probably able to explain. The first is
Quote:
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
and the second
Quote:
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.
And if it were Minas Ithil, wouldn't it be easiemore proper to say instead Calm touch of sun was still on my face something about moon?

So, the answer is no. But you are using quite right way of explaining the verses. Okay, a hint comes - I will tell you something about every paragraph, hopefully it will help you:

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high.
Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.

This one is, I think, quite clear: the substance is as you see it. If you were to understand something from it absolutely correctly, though, you'll have to look to Unfinished Tales. But you can even without it.

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.

This one speaks in a more important way than it may seem.

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.

Again, here there is something you can understand only if you are familiar with the UT. But it's not vital for understanding the riddle, you may use it just to check your answer if you think you got it.

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.

I daresay Eomer understood well the point of this part, he just needs to find some other subject about which this may speak.

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone.

This actually brings you some information about the state of the subject and the state and dynamism of what is around him.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.

The beginning of this, especially the second verse, is something that can by itself tell you the answer. There is a very similar statement, and the only one, in one of the books (and I will tell you that it is not Unfinished Tales this time). However, unless you know it and know where it is, you probably could only stumble upon it in a book by chance, because it is something people generally don't remember. You can still answer the riddle even without it, though.
The rest of the verse speaks also about one very important matter, which I think can be the best trace to you to find the answer itself.

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again!

Now the first verse speaks once again about the state of the subject, while the rest speaks about its final fate.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:08 AM   #788
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Just a shot in the dark.... Gollum?

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high. - (Searching for frodo?)
Before the darkness I found my friends here, - (before the darkness = before the ring?)
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.
This one speaks in a more important way than it may seem.

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught. (under the moiuntain, no news or time)
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar, (frodo?)
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone. (under the mountains in gollum's pool)


Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow. (to know of gollum is to know of the ring)
My name was taken away from me long ago, (Smeagol was cursed "gollum" and forgot his true name over the ages)
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name? (frodo?)
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.


Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone. (for a short while gollum seems to help the hobbits)


Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him. (bilbo and the ring?)


Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again! (ok, this doesn't fit my idea so i must be wrong, but i'll still submit on the off chance)
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:03 AM   #789
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Sorry, but not right. As you said yourself, the final verse wouldn't make sense at all, and there is many more that wouldn't fit, for example:
Quote:
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.
There's no way you're getting this to fit with Gollum's story. But you at least tried.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:07 AM   #790
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Quote:
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.
actually if slightly twisted it would fit in with isildur's losing the ring, although gollum never saw this it's still linked with his story.
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:33 PM   #791
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See, my first guess was Moria because of the "man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer." Then I thought The Might had it with Caradhras (Redhorn) because Moria has neither a garden to look over, nor is it high up in the air. But then, Moria technically isn't the walls of Caradhras...

So, since it's not Minas Ithil (another one that made sense to me) my guess is with Gil-Galad on Gondolin, literally because of the sixth stanza alone.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.


Seven gates...
Tuor wandered there...
The Gondolindrim were saved by Tuor and Idril... if not precisely victorious.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:57 AM   #792
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A very good attempt, it will go with most of the riddle, though I am not quite sure how Gondolin would make it with this:
Quote:
Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.
Also good idea with the seven gates (I understand you meant it that the "seven times stronger darkness" is seven times stronger because it has to be "stronger" than the gates? Other explanation will probably not make sense - the riddle speaks of the darkness being seven times stronger.)

I think it will maybe help you riddlers to write some sort of a list while reading the riddle, noting what criteria the subject has to fulfil, and then try to think what the subject may be.

E.g. you read another riddle and a read a line saying "When the stars fade, you may begin to see me", you make a note: "it appears in the morning". Etc.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:52 AM   #793
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Ah Legate, fantastic riddle, the clue's in your own name of course! Very sneaky!

My nomination (and in this I am unanimous) is Dol Guldur, aka Amon Lanc, whence comes the Legate

OK so,

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high.

I'm a mountain above the trees and valleys of Mirkwood

Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.

Before Sauron came it was a habitation of friendly elves

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.

The time of the Last Alliance

Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.

Isildur ambushed by the orcs at the Gladden Field

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.

Sauron occupied Dol Guldur around 1000 TA

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.

remember my name Dol Guldur - Amon Lanc, we still remember you!

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.

The Necromancer's fortress

Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.

Dol Guldur occupied wth sevenfold stremgth before the War of the Ring

There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.

Gandalf's two missions to the mountain

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -

Dol Guldur is Sauron's prison

ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again!

But after the victory of Frodo and Sam, Galadriel and co. cross over to Mirkwood, changing it back to Greenwood the Great and perhaps Dol Guldur to Amon Lanc again
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Old 06-30-2007, 08:16 AM   #794
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Thumbs up Fantastic!

Applause! Great work! You are a good riddler. You solved everything in the riddle, even the "seven times stronger" part; the only thing you did not mention was the
Quote:
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
Which was, actually, referring to something that happened near, like Isildur's death, and that was the event of the ride of Eorl (resp. Borondir).

So, I think you indeed deserve to take the thread
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-30-2007, 09:35 AM   #795
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Eye

Cheers Legate,

now for my first ever riddle, how exciting!


Cold be my bones, under turf, under sky,
Close to deep waters forever I lie,

From vic'try to vic'try I marched for to win,
From darkness of old the place of our kin,

Counsel we heeded not,
Allies we needed not,

I slew their great leader in bright shining sun,
T'was darkness we came to turn light when we'd won,

The black shaft it took me to darkness from light,
The first one to fall in vainglorious fight.

Good luck,

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Old 06-30-2007, 12:25 PM   #796
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Thumbs up

I'll try, okay? I just cannot resist

I think this could be Flói, one of the Dwarves who was with Balin in Moria.

Cold be my bones, under turf, under sky,
Close to deep waters forever I lie,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Book of Mazarbul
Flói under grass near Mirror mere
Here I came to think that this refers to someone buried near Mirrormere, for a short moment I thought of Balin - but then I remembered that Balin's tomb was inside. I also thought about maybe some other Dwarf from the Battle of Azanulbizar. But after I read the below, I remembered that quote.

From vic'try to vic'try I marched for to win,
From darkness of old the place of our kin,

This could have been many things, but in this image it fits well with the image of a fighting Dwarf - and Moria.

Counsel we heeded not,
Allies we needed not,

Wilfully they entered Moria, even though Dáin did not like it.

I slew their great leader in bright shining sun,
T'was darkness we came to turn light when we'd won,

This was actually what made me think of Flói. Because:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Book of Mazarbul
we slew many in the bright (...) sun in the dale. Flói was killed by an arrow. He slew the great
The black shaft it took me to darkness from light,
The first one to fall in vainglorious fight.

Black shaft = Moria. It seemed sure to me at that moment that we're speaking of Moria here. Flói is mentined as the first Dwarf killed by the Orcs.

Great riddle!
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 06-30-2007, 08:45 PM   #797
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Eye Floi Indeed my friends

Is it not said,

oooo you are so sharp you'll cut yourself one day


All yours....
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:34 PM   #798
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Question

Sorry for the delay with the riddle... I was not here for some time and then couldn't come up with anything... (What do I have in my pocket?)

I hope I'll be around to reflect on possible answers, since on summer I'm sometimes not on places with computer access, but at least once a week I probably will be able to check... so just post your guesses, and I'll tell you all always when I'm here.

Here is the riddle.


I'm living in a land
where enchanted stream flows,
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes.

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk
to visit my best friend
to simply sit and talk.

But when darkness comes down
When lightnings fill the sky
I leave my home and town
When foe is passing by

I'm living in a land
Where cold stone serves for bed
All things will come to end
Tomorrow, I'll be dead


I hope you will enjoy it
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:00 PM   #799
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Beorn?

I'm living in a land - living in Carrock
where enchanted stream flows, - the river of mirkwood was enchanted
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes. - everyone who touches the stream gets drowsy and lost in dream

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk
to visit my best friend
to simply sit and talk.

But when darkness comes down
When lightnings fill the sky
I leave my home and town
When foe is passing by Beorn cosntantly fights the goblins and wargs

I'm living in a land
Where cold stone serves for bed - carrock is a flat stone land
All things will come to end
Tomorrow, I'll be dead

i can't think right now... sorry for the half-responses, but its a try and maybe you should let me think of some riddles next time you get this, you always make your questions go on for 2-3 pages... disheartening :P
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:47 AM   #800
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Oh, sorry... really, I don't want to cause despair I just don't want to come up with anything far too easy... well, I even cannot, it seems... after all, I'm not generally picking hard things to guess (maybe save for the last time, but f.ex. before it was Orodruin).

But this time, Beorn it is not, and maybe if you had more time you will realize (for example, where would you pick up the best friend - and also, the river is quite far from Beorn's house). But as you said it was a try, so you may try again (or others, of course).
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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