The ultimate fate of the half elves between Beren/Luthian and Earindel/Elwing

[Dûrbelethwen]

I was contimpalting earilier as to what happened to Dior and his sons after their deaths? Were they considered men and left the circles of the world after a time? Or did they rise (I am not sure of the wording) from the halls of Mandos and lived in Valinor with Dior reuniting with his wife?

[Findegil]

Possibly they were held in Mandos until the time of the debate following Earendils arrival in Valinor and then given the same choices as Earendil and Elwing. Such a time of waiting would be possible for both elvish and manish fea. But since they were in Mandos and only very seldom had come any word out the west concerning events that happend there we do not hear even a hint of who they choose.

But I doubt if Dior had any choice at all. Lúthien had made her choice before Dior was recieved and born. From Arwen and here brethern we here that to them was granted a special doom, but we never hear such things from the children of Elros. Thus I think, if once the choice was made in the direction of manishniss it became binding for all following generations. Therefore Dior was born as a man and would die as man and his ultimate fate was that of a man.

But his children are a special case. If Dior was a man they were clearly half elves since Nimloth was an Elf. But we can not even be sure if Eluréd and Elurín were already dead when Earendil and Elwing arrived in Valinor. The last word of JRR Tolkien concerning there fate reads ["The History of Middle-Earth"; volume 11: "The War of the Jewels"; part 3: "The Wanderings of Húrin and other writings not forming part of the Quenta Silmarillion"; chapter V: "The Tale of the Years"]:

506-507 At Yule Dior fought the sons of Fëanor on the eats marches of Doriath, and was slain. There fell also Celegorn (by Dior's hand) and Curufin and Cranthir. The cruel servants of Celegorn seize Dior's sons (Elrún and Eldún) and leave them to strave in the forest. (Nothing certain is know of their fate, but some say that the birds succoured them, and led them to Ossir.) [In margin: Maidors repenting seeks unavailingly for the chlidren of Dior.] The Lady Lindis escaped with Elwing, and came hardly to Ossir, with the Necklace and the Jewel. Thence hearing the rumour she fled to the Havens of Sirion.

But anyway, equally if they are already dead or still alive they are in the same possition as Elwing. Thus I would think that they would be granted the same choice as Elwing.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Tinuviel of Denton]

But I doubt if Dior had any choice at all. Lúthien had made her choice before Dior was recieved and born... Therefore Dior was born as a man and would die as man and his ultimate fate was that of a man.

And yet, Dior was allowed to take up the rule in Doriath after Thingol died... I would have thought that the elves of Doriath would have balked rather strongly to being ruled by a Man...

Just a thought, and smarter people please take it where you will.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Tinuviel of Denton

And yet, Dior was allowed to take up the rule in Doriath after Thingol died... I would have thought that the elves of Doriath would have balked rather strongly to being ruled by a Man...

Just a thought, and smarter people please take it where you will.

I doubt that the Elves of Doriath quite knew exactly WHAT Dior's fate was.

However, it says, either in Morgoth's Ring or in The Peoples of Middle-Earth (I think the former), that when the Choice was given to Earendil, Elwing, and their children, any other half-elves that did not/could not Choose were to be considered, by default, as belonging to the kindred of Men.

Therefore, I guess we can assume that Dior, Elured, and Elurin, not having had the Choice, were all, upon their death, destined to leave the circles of the world, and not be bound to it.

Perhaps the story of Nimloth and Dior is the REAL tragedy of the Silmarillion. Forever separated by fate....

The Dior Dilemma talks about this as well.

[Felagund]

Well, maybe Dior was given the choice in the same manner as Elrond? And also, was Elwing half-elven or all elven? These family trees get oh so confusing...