Unnamed character in the extended 'Return of the King'?

Hi

In Rotk - the movie. When the attack on the black gates is starting. Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, Gandalf, Pippin, Merry etc. is talking to the.. whatever it is.. by the gates, who tells them that Frodo is dead.. Who is that?

[HerenIstarion]

Welcome to the Downs Thinelen

It is Mouth of Sauron - the placekeeper, or lieutenant of Sauron. Living man, probably Númenorean, in the service of Dark Lord.

See more about him:

What became of Mouth of Sauron by Gothbogg the Ripper
The Mouth of Sauron by Thingol
Mouth of Sauron Story by Lenwe

there several others were Mouth is touched upon, per instance - The RoTK EE (by Morgul Queen)

Besides, some interesting discussion about Mouth's actual age may be found in Magic in Middle Earth by Saulotus

cheers

[Elianna]

Well, that was quick.

How about another unnamed character: that leader in Minas Tirith. One who brought dying Faramir to Denethor after the Osgiliath massacre. "They were outnumbered. None survived." "It is as the Lord Denethor predicted. Long as he forseen this doom." Who's that?

From an image search on Google, I thought they were calling him Beregond, but I have a screensaver that calls him Imrahil (which doesn't make sense, since he's obviously in Gondor garb).

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

As far as I can tell, I believe he is supposed to be Prince Imrahil of the Dunedain.

[Boromir88]

I heard that guy was Imrahil too. PJ threw in some names from LOTR for his characters. And for some reason he named Faramir's lieutenant Madril, instead of sticking with Mardil, maybe Madril has a better ring.

My personal opinion is the elf accompanying Arwen to the Havens is Glorfindel, just PJ trying to get a jab at us

[mark12_30]

Imrahil... that guy?? Gah-- say it aint so! I'd rather have him not there at all, than have him be parodied like that.

Maybe Glorfindel was at the coronation.

[Elianna]

Nah, that elf that talked to Arwen's name is "Elven Escort." Catchy ain't it?

Glorfindel's supposed to be this dude at Aragorn's corination. He looks so stupid. Not at all deserving of the name of a mighty Elf-lord. *click*

[Boromir88]

Ya, Glorfindel does look rather stupid...anyway....

Nah, that elf that talked to Arwen's name is "Elven Escort."

You couldn't have made me happy and say that he's ment to be named Glorindel?

[Imladris]

Glorfindel's supposed to be this dude at Aragorn's corination. He looks so stupid. Not at all deserving of the name of a mighty Elf-lord.

Nobody could look so that he deserved the name of a mighty Elf-lord.

He looks sad to me. Not stupid.

[Finwe-89]

Imrahil?! I don't think so, that's more a Elvish name then a name of a Dunedain/Gondorian. Maybe it's Berethor of The Third Age !

According to the Books, those lines concerning Faramir's state were spoken by Beregond, another character who didnt make it, or make it completely to film.

The elven Escort leading Arwen on horseback I'd suspect to being one of her brothers, elves-turned-rangers, and close comrades of Stridex, oops, Arogant, uh, The Elfstone. (hoping nobody got too offended at that, lol!)

The mouth of Sauron was not at all what I expected, good, but different, "Mauthon" as I call him, supposedly had flames coming from his eyes and ears maybe? On a side note, didnt those teeth remind you of Gilbert Gottfreid? Thank god HIS voice did'nt make it there.

"Yah! We tortchad da Hobbit, SO WHAT! It waz FUN!"

[Finwe-89]

And wasn't his horse a undead animal? I thought you could see the bones and stuff.

Glorfindel's supposed to be this dude at Aragorn's corination.

he is also walking in front of arwens horse in the scene "arwens vision"

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

(Geez! I went on vacation for a week and there are like 500000000 new threads to visit! I'll have to be online tonight for like 15 hrs. straight. Oh wait, i don't have a problem with that. )

The "Elven escort's" name is actually Figwit. I have no idea where this name came from. Maybe PJ or maybe some obsessive compulsive fans, who knows? Anyway there are several hundred fan girls obsessed with him just like all the other boys of the fellowship.

That's an interesting question thought, where did the name Figwit come from? Anybody know?

[Elianna]

Figwitis usually understood to be this elf: Figwit

His name is an acronym meaning "Frodo is great, Who is that?" The members of the Near-Sighted Elf Society, like Eowyn Skywalker, can tell you more about him.

[Finwe-89]

Maybe the unamed charachter of Trotk is that Gondorian with the long blond hair that says to Gandalf when Gandalf and Faramir are talking on the courtyard: '' I knew it was going to happen, long has Lord Denethor forseen this'' Or something like that

[Boromir88]

That's Iorlas. The one that's a brown-noser.

[Finwe-89]

Aha, tnx, I needed it to know

[Elianna]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

That's Iorlas. The one that's a brown-noser.

Thanks Boro. But actually, in the movie, they spell it Irolas. Why? WHY?! They're so close! And it would've made as near to complete sense as the movie ever gets to make that dude Iorlas. Why change the spelling like they did with Madril/Mardil? Now, I'll admit that Madril sounds cooler than Mardil, but Iorlas is easier to pronounce than, and still sounds cooler than Irolas. OK, so you have to understand that initial I's directly followed by another vowel are pronounced like Y's, but that's the same rule as in other langauges, even some spoken today. *sigh*

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Finwe-89

Imrahil?! I don't think so, that's more a Elvish name then a name of a Dunedain/Gondorian. Maybe it's Berethor of The Third Age !

Imrahil is Adunaic I believe or quasi adunaic..... although Imrahil's children have Elvish names ....

[narfforc]

Imrahil son of Adrahil, was also the brother of Denethors wife Finduilas. The Princes of Dol Amroth legend said were descended from Galador, son of a Numenorean mariner called Imrazor, and an elf-maid called Mithrellas. Imrahil`s daughter Lothiriel married Eomer.

NOMOREIHERE (SILLY ELVEN FOR FAREWELL)

[Boromir88]

Which makes Imrazor's and Mithrellas kids, by blood, half-elves. Too bad they didn't get the gift to choose between mortality and elfhood. Phooey, why does only Earendil's line get to do that.

[narfforc]

Legend only says that is how they got the features that Legolas would recognise as elven. Mithrellas was a silvan elf and not one of The High Elves, Tolkien never really explained this one I think, though I will look it up. Oh by the way that last message came out wrong, it should read Imrazors son Galador and Mithrellas had children, sorry.

[The Saucepan Man]

The offspring of Imrazor and Mithrellas were not Half-Elves, or Peredhil, since this term, in its strict application, refers only to the descendants of Earendil and Elwing who were given the choice between mortality and immortality. This choice was accorded to them by Eru (since the power was his only to give) in recognition their great deeds.

Legolas (of the Downs) put together a very helpful FAQ on this issue which is on the main site (follow the link).

Thus, the descendants of Imrazor and Mithrellas were simply mortals (ie of the race of Men) with Elven blood.

In other words, one is not a Half-Elf with the choice between mortality or immortality simply by virtue of having Elven blood. The choice must specifically be bestowed, as it was in the case of Earendil and his sons (plus those of Elrond's line who themselves chose immortality).

[Boromir88]

I said by blood they were half-elves, and technically that's true, one mortal another elf. But that's all they were by blood, they didn't get the choice, as I've said twice now, and you said.

[Mithalwen]

I have always wondered what it was about Imrahil which made Legolas know he had Elvish blood .... maybe he had pointy ears .... or a radiant complexion or maybe his feet didn't quite reach the ground.... there is a bit more about the line of Dol Amroth in HoME and UT but not as much as I would like .... Imrahil was one of my favourites ... and he makes such an excellent foil for Denethor in the books ...

[narfforc]

The Saucepan Man is correct, it was the will of Eru that only the offspring of Earendil and Elwing should be given the choice. In the case of Idril and Tuor, It was said that he was the only mortal to be numbered among The Eldar. and in the case of Arwen and Aragorn, she became mortal, therefore so was Eldarion. What became of Mithrellas, who dissapeared after giving birth to another child after Galador. Whether she was forced to choose as Arwen and Luthien had, Tolkien does not say . There are only a few possibilities, she either caught a ship to the undying lands, or she was rejected. If she was rejected, that meant she had been accounted amonst the Edain and would eventually die a mortal, if that were true, then so was the offspring, they would be of the race of Man, not halfelven. If she had not tried to catch a ship, and left her life in some kind of limbo, she may well be wandering Middle-Earth still along with Maglor, though this is unlikely.

NOMOREIHERE

[The Saucepan Man]

Being a pure-blood Elf, Mithrellas had an automatic right to enter Valinor. She could not have been rejected. It doesn't, of course, follow that she did take a ship West ...

[narfforc]

HI Saucepan Man, If by her association with a mortal, Eru had decreed that she also was mortal, as in the case of Luthien and Arwen, then she would not have been allowed in. I know they both had to renounce themselves, but that was to be with the ones they loved, so it stands to reason that the same rules would apply to any of the elves. If Luthien who was also part Maiar could not go back, then why would they allow Mithrellas.

[The Saucepan Man]

But Luthien requested mortality and Arwen chose it. They were not prevented from entering the Blessed Realm against their will since they knew the consequences of their choice. Moreover, I would speculate that Arwen might, had a ship been available to take her, have been permitted entry following Aragron's death, although being mortal she would have died there like Frodo, Bilbo and Sam.

Mithrellas would not have been denied entry against her will although, had she made the same request as Luthien, it might conceivably have been granted.

Of course, by the will of Eru, I suppose anything is possible ...

[narfforc]

Hi Saucepan Man, I was refering to Luthien and Arwen after they had made their choice, by their choice they are barred. No mortal may set foot in the Undying Lands against the will of Eru, even Frodo, Bilbo and Sam are only allowed a far as Tol Erresea, but you are right, for we do not know if Eru permitted Mithrellas in or not. It is one of those nice loose ends that Tolkien left dangling, that allows us to
question

[Assasin]

I thought The Mouth of Sauron was so freaky but so cool! I love the way he kind of does that smile/grimace thing. He has bad gingavitis.

[gorthaur_cruel]

Actually, that Arwen-escort IS Figwit.

"Hey Iris -- Talked to Peter Jackson today and the last thing I mentioned was Figwit... He did say he shot the scene during pickups as a treat to the fans who created this phenom (like, you) and he was very proud of the fact he gave Bret a line of dialogue."

[Elianna]

It IS Figwit?! Wow, I would never have given PJ credit for doing something that cool. I guess they just couldn't put "Figwit" in the credits. Where are you quoting?

I'll go with undead for the horse yeah, or tortured and twisted to an evil design with dark magics. Those dark forces guys aren't real big on the prettypretty. I could think this to death, but it'd be kicking a dead horse maybe, lol.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It would have been great if characters were introduced properly.

Even Boromir and Eomer were barely introduced. We needed Elrond to say: This is Boromir of Gondor! at the Council. Viewers need to know the names of the characters; they want to care about them. Did anyone, anyone at all, who had not read the books, come out of the cinema ready to discuss Eomer directly? Of course not; all they could say was: "Yon blonde laddie was righteous." It should be so much better and easier.

But that's a big problem I have with films in general, and not just The Lord of the Rings.

[Boromir88]

You can check out this site for all the names of the council members. Although some of them are just named "Elf-two" and stuff...Some of them are just wierd made up names PJ pulled out of his...

[Elianna]

Goodness! Checked out that site Boro, *grrrrrrrrrrr* That is so stupid. Wasn't Galdor the butler? Moved on up in the world in 60 yrs, hasn't he? Those names for Men are just horrid. Did they run out of white hair for Dwarves, or did they just not think of it soon enough and decide that, since his white hair is about the only description of WR time Gloín, they'd better make dweebs (like me) who care angry by leaving out Gloín all together than angry by giving him the wrong hair color? *sigh*

That Erestor is kinda creepy. He'd make a good Maeglin.

[Boromir88]

I agree with you about Gloin. If you are going to add in a whole bunch of additions that aren't supposed to be there you might as well put in the ones that ARE there too. There's no reason not to have Gloin, atleast in my thinking. Yes, Erestor looks a bit...feminish, and what kind of name is Jarnsmid? I mean again, if you are going to have a bunch of men, give one like Imrahil, or Hurin or something.

[Elianna]

One more thing about the Council members:

One more blonde wig. That's all it would have taken. Just one more blonde wig, and viola! Glorfindel is at the Council, but doesn't say anything because what he does say is that the Ring can't be sent to Tom Bombadil, who isn't - *angry sigh*