The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > The New Silmarillion > Translations from the Elvish - Public Forum
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2012, 08:09 PM   #1
jallanite
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 479
jallanite is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Douglas Charles Kane’s “Arda Reconstucted: The Creation of the Published Simarillion”

This is a book which ought to be considered by those interested in this thread.

The book is Arda Reconstructed: The Creation of the Published Silmarillion. It is published by Bethlehem: Lehigh University Press, 2009.

The book largely duplicates this group of threads, providing the details which might be used to create a superior version of the Silmarillion. It resembles more closely Lindil’s idea of a book that contains a commentary on all passages from Tolkien’s writing that connect to the Silmarillion.

After a short introduction, Kane introduces a chapter corresponding to a chapter on the Silmarillion. Each of the chapters mostly contains a table containing the Silmarillion chapter or chapters broken down into individual paragraphs, the words that begins each section, the page number where the section begins, the primary source for that section, and secondary sources for that section where they exist.

For examples, the first listing in the first table, using “ ¦ ” to mark column spacing, is:

1 ¦ “It is told among…” ¦ 35 ¦ §31 of version D of the Ainulindalë ¦ AAm §13: “Arda was filled with the sound of his laughter” and “Melkor fled before his wrath and his laughter, and forsook Arda”

Kane then, in the associated chapter, comments on the text of Christopher Tolkien’s text as compared to the arguably more genuine texts. Kane does not usually use material from the first three books of the HOME series and usually gives precedence to Tolkien’s latest writings on any matter, although not always.

Kane finds that Christopher Tolkien’s work is mostly justifiable, but sometimes is not. Christopher Tolkien often omits what Kane feels should have been included. In particular, Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay often reduce the role of females in the work. Kane suggests a coherent account of the Nauglamir (Neclace of the Dwarves) that does not include the inventions of Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay. Kane also believes that most of the Second Prophecy of Mandos should be included, that Tolkien only intended part of it should be removed.

For references to Kane’s work, see:
http://www.amazon.com/Arda-Reconstru.../dp/0980149630 (check reviews),

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arda-Reconst.../dp/1611460565 (check review),

http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/...-charles-kane/ (interview),

http://themidhavens.net/heretic_lore...reconstructed/ (review),

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/...onstructed.php (review).
This book is almost essential for this project as almost all of the research work has been done, and has been done well.
jallanite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 04:46 AM   #2
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,694
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Thank you for pionting us to this book, but as you can see in the thread "Have you read or the intention to read Arda Reconstructed" we are already aware of it.

It is true that it is a very helpful book for those still interested in this project, but it does not really provide one with additional sources that should be considered.

Respectfuly
Findegil
Findegil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 07:21 AM   #3
jallanite
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 479
jallanite is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Findegil View Post
It is true that it is a very helpful book for those still interested in this project, but it does not really provide one with additional sources that should be considered.
I never claimed that the book provided any additional sources.

Nor should it.

What it does do is organize material so that it is more easily found rather than by searching through thread after thread and book after book of the HOME series and other books edited by Christopher Tolkien. And it does so accurately and (at least mostly) completely for the material it covers, the later material.
jallanite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 08:48 AM   #4
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,031
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
(...) Christopher Tolkien often omits what Kane feels should have been included. In particular, Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay often reduce the role of females in the work.
And as for the claim that CJRT reduced the role of females... I further suggest this discussion (especially that between Doug Kane and Carl Hostetter [Voronwe and Aelfwine]):

http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/v...t=2184&start=0
Galin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 11:06 AM   #5
jallanite
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 479
jallanite is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galin View Post
And as for the claim that CJRT reduced the role of females... I further suggest this discussion (especially that between Doug Kane and Carl Hostetter [Voronwe and Aelfwine]):

http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/v...t=2184&start=0
I don’t see that that thread helps at all. I see that my own statement is actually somewhat weaker than what Kane claims.

I doubt that Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay consciously decided to reduce female rolls and Kane never claims they did.
jallanite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 10:48 PM   #6
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,031
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jallanite View Post
I don’t see that that thread helps at all. I see that my own statement is actually somewhat weaker than what Kane claims.
Well I do think the thread helps in explaining what you've simplified here (however purposely, for brevity no doubt) in but one sentence.

Quote:
I doubt that Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay consciously decided to reduce female rolls and Kane never claims they did.

I don't believe that anyone in any way decided to reduce female roles specifically, and the point in the thread is not whether or not Doug Kane explicitly claims so, but his choice of presentation in raising this issue. Even possibly raising the question of misogyny is serious stuff in my opinion, so how one presents the matter, specifically, is important.
Galin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:17 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.