Maiar - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Joy · 02-13-2002, 01:11 AM

I have read LotR, the Hobbit, and now reading the Sil. When I read about the Maiar, I was wondering about Olorin being Gandalf. I vaugely remembered something in LotR, but forgot.
This quote just seemed so much like Gandalf:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The wisest of the Maiar was Olorin. He too dwelt in Lorien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I remembered that Galadriel of Lorien wanted Gandalf to be the head of the White Counsil, also when the Fellowship came to Lorien, Galadriel said that she longed to see Gandalf again. One question left on this subject.

Was Melian Galadriel? It states that she dwelt in Lorien and also in Este. Would Este be Rivendell? - I think that I read that Estel means hope, Rivendell was where Estel Telcontar(Aragorn/Hope Strider) was reared.

Estel I haven't confused anyone [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-13-2002, 01:51 AM

Yes, Olorin is Gandalf.
No, Galadriel is not Melian. You will see Galadriel in the Silmarillion if you keep reading.

Niphredil Baggins · 02-13-2002, 04:34 AM

Este and Lorien are places in Valinor, in the west. Rivendell and Lothlorien are completely different places in Middle-Earth. In LotR Gandalf says : 'Olorin was I in my youth in the west.'

Elrian · 02-13-2002, 07:57 AM

Este is a Vala, and the wife of Lorien (Irmo). Lorien in Valinor is the dwelling place of Lorien (Irmo), like Mandos is more well known by the name of his dwelling place than by the name Namo, so is Lorien. Melian had dwelt in Lorien and was the Maia of Este and Vana, she returned there at the end of the First Age.

Joy · 02-13-2002, 10:58 PM

I am still so new to this [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I have only gotten 7 chapters into The Sil. It's fun but confussing.

Thank you all very much.

02-15-2002, 12:32 AM

I believe Good ole' Tom Bombadil is a Maia too.

*yet another useless post*

Nazgûl Queen · 02-15-2002, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joy:
<STRONG>I am still so new to this [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I have only gotten 7 chapters into The Sil. It's fun but confussing.</STRONG>

<center><font color="red">Personally, I find the Silmarillion interesting but boring.
Understand what I mean?

It tells of creation and the elves and Melkor and all that stuff that I always need to know more about... but it is more in the form of a history book than a novel, which makes it a somewhat boring read.

But its an extremely good book!

[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] Morauko, Queen of the Nazgul! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: Nazgûl Queen ]

Joy · 02-15-2002, 08:41 PM

Actually I don't think that Tom was a Maiar, I believe that he is possibly Beorn. Nothing is spoken of him again outside of The Hobbit. Could Beorn have been one of the Valinor, thus making Tom Bombadil a Valinor?

I haven't read far into the Sil, but from what I have seen, there are only 9 Maiars. Maybe there are more, but are lesser in staute and power.

I hope that this makes sense.

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-15-2002, 10:27 PM

Actually, Beorn is mentioned in Lord of the Rings. His descendants are spoken of by Gloin as still guarding the Carrock.
As to the number of Maiar, there are certainly more than just nine. The Silmarillion and other books make constant reference to them, with terms such as "the folk of {insert Vala here}" and also by naming them. Besides, there are more than nine Maia that are named, much less mentioned. {i.e., Ilmare, Eonwe, Osse, Uinen, Melian, Sauron, Olorin (Gandalf), Curumo (Saruman), Aiwendil (Radagast), Alatar, Pallando, Gothmog, and the rest of the Balrogs (be it 3,7 or thousands); and these are just some of the ones specifically mentioned}

Joy · 02-15-2002, 10:48 PM

Well, as you can see, I still have far to go in the knowledge of Tolkien. I guess I should go back and read LotR again. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Aralaithiel · 02-16-2002, 10:37 AM

After you finish the Silmarillion, read Unfinished Tales, another good source for Maiar info. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Raefindel · 02-16-2002, 03:53 PM

Read The Two Towers Page 329. That is where you learn Gandalf's many names. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Novberaid · 10-30-2003, 05:47 PM

I have read the Silmarillion several times and it seems that the Maiar were like the lesser Gods and there was a heirarchy within their own ranks. Some might have had more power or abilities than others. According to one source I found about the Istari. "Though the Istari came secretly and in humble form, they were mighty spirits. They were limited to the form of Men and the powers found within the mortal World."

Earendilyon · 10-31-2003, 01:55 AM

Link to where you'll find an article by obloquy about Ainur, Maiar and the like.

02-13-2002, 01:11 AM	#1
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,020	Maiar I have read LotR, the Hobbit, and now reading the Sil. When I read about the Maiar, I was wondering about Olorin being Gandalf. I vaugely remembered something in LotR, but forgot. This quote just seemed so much like Gandalf: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The wisest of the Maiar was Olorin. He too dwelt in Lorien, but his ways took him often to the house of Nienna, and of her he learned pity and patience. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I remembered that Galadriel of Lorien wanted Gandalf to be the head of the White Counsil, also when the Fellowship came to Lorien, Galadriel said that she longed to see Gandalf again. One question left on this subject. Was Melian Galadriel? It states that she dwelt in Lorien and also in Este. Would Este be Rivendell? - I think that I read that Estel means hope, Rivendell was where Estel Telcontar(Aragorn/Hope Strider) was reared. Estel I haven't confused anyone [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

02-13-2002, 01:51 AM	#2
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 652	Yes, Olorin is Gandalf. No, Galadriel is not Melian. You will see Galadriel in the Silmarillion if you keep reading. __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

02-13-2002, 04:34 AM	#3
Niphredil Baggins Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 118	Este and Lorien are places in Valinor, in the west. Rivendell and Lothlorien are completely different places in Middle-Earth. In LotR Gandalf says : 'Olorin was I in my youth in the west.' __________________ Wistful, willful, wingless, fly!

02-13-2002, 07:57 AM	#4
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Este is a Vala, and the wife of Lorien (Irmo). Lorien in Valinor is the dwelling place of Lorien (Irmo), like Mandos is more well known by the name of his dwelling place than by the name Namo, so is Lorien. Melian had dwelt in Lorien and was the Maia of Este and Vana, she returned there at the end of the First Age. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

02-13-2002, 10:58 PM	#5
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,020	I am still so new to this [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I have only gotten 7 chapters into The Sil. It's fun but confussing. Thank you all very much. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

02-15-2002, 12:32 AM	#6
Galahira-may Guest Posts: n/a	I believe Good ole' Tom Bombadil is a Maia too. yet another useless post

02-15-2002, 08:41 PM	#8
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,020	Actually I don't think that Tom was a Maiar, I believe that he is possibly Beorn. Nothing is spoken of him again outside of The Hobbit. Could Beorn have been one of the Valinor, thus making Tom Bombadil a Valinor? I haven't read far into the Sil, but from what I have seen, there are only 9 Maiars. Maybe there are more, but are lesser in staute and power. I hope that this makes sense. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

02-15-2002, 10:27 PM	#9
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 652	Actually, Beorn is mentioned in Lord of the Rings. His descendants are spoken of by Gloin as still guarding the Carrock. As to the number of Maiar, there are certainly more than just nine. The Silmarillion and other books make constant reference to them, with terms such as "the folk of {insert Vala here}" and also by naming them. Besides, there are more than nine Maia that are named, much less mentioned. {i.e., Ilmare, Eonwe, Osse, Uinen, Melian, Sauron, Olorin (Gandalf), Curumo (Saruman), Aiwendil (Radagast), Alatar, Pallando, Gothmog, and the rest of the Balrogs (be it 3,7 or thousands); and these are just some of the ones specifically mentioned} __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

02-15-2002, 10:48 PM	#10
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,020	Well, as you can see, I still have far to go in the knowledge of Tolkien. I guess I should go back and read LotR again. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

02-16-2002, 10:37 AM	#11
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	After you finish the Silmarillion, read Unfinished Tales, another good source for Maiar info. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-16-2002, 03:53 PM	#12
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,325	Read The Two Towers Page 329. That is where you learn Gandalf's many names. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

10-30-2003, 05:47 PM	#13
Novberaid Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mirkwood Forest Posts: 45	I have read the Silmarillion several times and it seems that the Maiar were like the lesser Gods and there was a heirarchy within their own ranks. Some might have had more power or abilities than others. According to one source I found about the Istari. "Though the Istari came secretly and in humble form, they were mighty spirits. They were limited to the form of Men and the powers found within the mortal World." __________________ By the starlit mere of Cuivienen, they rose from the sleep of Iluvatar

10-31-2003, 01:55 AM	#14
Earendilyon Wight Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 166	Link to where you'll find an article by obloquy about Ainur, Maiar and the like. __________________ "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia.