Ouch! And it hurts even more than it looks like! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Balin999 · 01-15-2003, 04:21 PM

I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I'm a little out of date at threads regarding FotR. Can you remember the scene when Frodo is pierced by the cave troll? Well, it looks like the spear is really inside his shoulder. How can you walk with such a wound? Of course, he had his mithril-coat, but it didn't look like he didn't feel anything after this serious blow.

Tar-Palantir · 01-15-2003, 04:55 PM

When he falls forward the spear appears gto be in his shoulder area, but the initial strike hits him in the chest. Even so, the sheer force of it looks to be a rib-breaker. I also am amazed that he can walk, let alone run after such a blow. The movie-makers must be attributing some magical quality to Mithril, which it doesn't have, afaik.

Elven-Maiden · 01-15-2003, 05:50 PM

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. *whips out book* <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> There was a dark and blackened bruise on Frodo's right side and breast. Under the mail there was a shirt of soft leather, but at one point the rings had been driven through it into the flesh, Frodo's left side also was scored and bruised where he had been hurled against the wall. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It does seem pretty nasty, doesn't it!

Gorwingel · 01-15-2003, 05:58 PM

Gosh, it looked terrible. Though in the movie, I thought they did make it look painful. I was not like he just jumped up and started beating the cave troll, they thought he was dead for a little bit. In the film they just did not have enough time to go into all that detail, the filmakers thought they had to hurry it up.

Deathwail · 01-15-2003, 07:37 PM

In the book he was poked with a Orc spear i am pretty sure and not by a Troll,but hard to think anyone would walk away from a blow like what was seen in the film but then again Mithril is amazing stuff.

Carrûn · 01-15-2003, 08:48 PM

Still, in the book when Aragorn is carrying him Frodo does say "Put me down I can walk." So I guess even though it was a bit nasty it wasn't extremely serious. Also later on in the FOTR (book) I believe several arrows bounce off of the coat as well.Pretty nifty stuff.

doug*platypus · 01-16-2003, 03:20 AM

The movieMithrilshirt doesn't look like its links would be broken and forced into the skin, as happened in the books. Actually, I think the Mithril shirt was the worst prop in the whole movie, and looked more like something you'd wear to a dodgy nightclub than a shirt of chainmail.

Maiden of the Sky · 01-16-2003, 03:37 AM

I thought it looked alright actually, but I thought that he recovered way too quickly I mean look at that Troll! Maybe mithril is that good but it just seemed too weird.

Deathwail · 01-16-2003, 05:26 AM

Maybe the Troll didnt want to hit him to hard and ruin the meat for eatting later,Hobbits are small enough of a meal even when you dont split them open so half the good stuff oozes out before they even get in the stew pot.

Balin999 · 01-16-2003, 01:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think the Mithril shirt was the worst prop in the whole movie, and looked more like something you'd wear to a dodgy nightclub than a shirt of chainmail.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Good one! Oh and now I finally found the words that I needed. In the books, it's more authentic, that if an orc hits you, even if he is somewhat bigger than you, you still can walk. But: Imagine a troll, 4 times your size, hits you with his spear. Now that's gotta hurt! Well, anyways, I'm not the person to critisize P.J, I guess. It was just one of my sick thoughts.

doug*platypus · 01-17-2003, 07:00 AM

True, O dwarf of the upside-down 666. Now that you guys mention it, the Cave Troll did seem to be pulling his punches a little bit. You'd think he'd be capable of a much better stab than the weeny little prick he uses on Frodo. While we're in the Chamber of Mazarbul, how is Sam's frying pan easier to draw out than a sword? Maybe he needs to stop keeping it in his sheath. "Stupid, fat hobbit." Yeah, you said it, Sméagol...

Balin999 · 01-17-2003, 08:01 AM

Oh, and why did the cave troll more or less concentrate on Frodo? Because Frodo was the ring bearer? And, yeah, the troll could have carried more than this lttle spear-thingie. It must have seemed to him(her?) to be nothing more than a toothpick. But, if he had hit Frodo with, let's say a tree-trunk, things would have been not so easy for Frodo. So, P.J. thought he had to add a little change, so that it looked more spectacular, but he forgot to give the troll a weapon that was appropriate for his stature.

HCIsland · 01-17-2003, 09:40 AM

The troll didn't come in with the spear. Aragorn stabbed him witn it and then the troll used it against Frodo. He just grabbed what was available.He had a very troll sized club when he came in, but I'm not sure what happened to it. I'ld have to watch to see if he dropped it or something. He definately had it when he took a swing at Merry, Pippin and Frodo.H.C.

Aratlithiel · 01-17-2003, 09:59 AM

The troll had the club up over his head and was in the process of swinging it down on Frodo when Aragorn jumped up and speared him at which point he dropped it over the back of his shoulder.And yes, he zeroes in on Frodo because he's the Ring-bearer. In the book he's a large Orc chieftain and Gandalf notices that starting with the Watcher in the water, all of the "bad guys" seem to make a bee-line straight for Frodo.

Balin999 · 02-02-2003, 03:34 PM

Yeah after seeing it again I can remember now how it was. And after seeing the "extended version" dvd we also know that the troll is a "HE". But I still think that hit by a troll, Frodo's chest would surely be smashed, Mithril-coat or not.

dunadan_aragorn · 02-02-2003, 06:29 PM

I would also like to point out that this is ANOTHER time in the movie where Aragorn looks like he is dead.C'mon PJ! We know he's not gonna die! Give it up!

Balin999 · 02-04-2003, 02:11 PM

What scene do you mean, dunadan?

HCIsland · 02-04-2003, 02:14 PM

I think he's talking about when Aragorn fell off the cliff in TTT.In my opinion though, no one beats Frodo for feigning death.H.C.

Balin999 · 02-04-2003, 02:26 PM

Hm, that scene shouldn't be in the movie. I don't think that it was necessary to put it in the plot. Oh another scene that would fit to the thread name is the scene when Gimli dives unnder the orc and, well I think his axe has a little confrontation with the orc's groin. hehe, that's gotta hurt.

HCIsland · 02-05-2003, 01:44 PM

There already was a thread concerning <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001762" TARGET=_blank>Aragorn's Fall</A>. Lot's of opinions both for and against.H.C.

HCIsland · 02-06-2003, 09:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Oh another scene that would fit to the thread name is the scene when Gimli dives unnder the orc and, well I think his axe has a little confrontation with the orc's groin. hehe, that's gotta hurt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> He-he-he.Actually, I'm not really sure I needed to see that.H.C.

Balin999 · 02-06-2003, 12:17 PM

Well, that scene just shows that Gimli really likes to fight when he doesn't play the fool (in the movie, not the books)

01-15-2003, 04:21 PM	#1
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	Ouch! And it hurts even more than it looks like! I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I'm a little out of date at threads regarding FotR.<BR>Can you remember the scene when Frodo is pierced by the cave troll?<BR>Well, it looks like the spear is really inside his shoulder. How can you walk with such a wound? Of course, he had his mithril-coat, but it didn't look like he didn't feel anything after this serious blow. __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...

01-15-2003, 04:55 PM	#2
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	When he falls forward the spear appears gto be in his shoulder area, but the initial strike hits him in the chest. Even so, the sheer force of it looks to be a rib-breaker. I also am amazed that he can walk, let alone run after such a blow. The movie-makers must be attributing some magical quality to Mithril, which it doesn't have, afaik. __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

01-15-2003, 05:50 PM	#3
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	Sorry, I couldn't help myself. whips out book<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> There was a dark and blackened bruise on Frodo's right side and breast. Under the mail there was a shirt of soft leather, but at one point the rings had been driven through it into the flesh, Frodo's left side also was scored and bruised where he had been hurled against the wall. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It does seem pretty nasty, doesn't it! __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

01-15-2003, 05:58 PM	#4
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Gosh, it looked terrible. Though in the movie, I thought they did make it look painful. I was not like he just jumped up and started beating the cave troll, they thought he was dead for a little bit. In the film they just did not have enough time to go<BR>into all that detail, the filmakers thought they had to hurry it up. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

01-15-2003, 07:37 PM	#5
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	In the book he was poked with a Orc spear i am pretty sure and not by a Troll,but hard to think anyone would walk away from a blow like what was seen in the film but then again Mithril is amazing stuff. __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-15-2003, 08:48 PM	#6
Carrûn Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you, counting to 3 Posts: 234	Still, in the book when Aragorn is carrying him Frodo does say "Put me down I can walk." So I guess even though it was a bit nasty it wasn't extremely serious. Also later on in the FOTR (book) I believe several arrows bounce off of the coat as well.<P>Pretty nifty stuff. __________________ "Dic, hospes, Spartae, nos te hic vidisse iacentes dum sanctis patriae legibus obsequimur."

01-16-2003, 03:20 AM	#7
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	The movieMithrilshirt doesn't look like its links would be broken and forced into the skin, as happened in the books. Actually, I think the Mithril shirt was the worst prop in the whole movie, and looked more like something you'd wear to a dodgy nightclub than a shirt of chainmail. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-16-2003, 03:37 AM	#8
Maiden of the Sky Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Under the Stars Posts: 13	I thought it looked alright actually, but I thought that he recovered way too quickly I mean look at that Troll! Maybe mithril is that good but it just seemed too weird.

01-16-2003, 05:26 AM	#9
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Maybe the Troll didnt want to hit him to hard and ruin the meat for eatting later,Hobbits are small enough of a meal even when you dont split them open so half the good stuff oozes out before they even get in the stew pot. __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-16-2003, 01:38 PM	#10
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think the Mithril shirt was the worst prop in the whole movie, and looked more like something you'd wear to a dodgy nightclub than a shirt of chainmail.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Good one! <BR>Oh and now I finally found the words that I needed.<BR>In the books, it's more authentic, that if an orc hits you, even if he is somewhat bigger than you, you still can walk.<BR>But: Imagine a troll, 4 times your size, hits you with his spear. Now that's gotta hurt!<BR>Well, anyways, I'm not the person to critisize P.J, I guess.<BR>It was just one of my sick thoughts. __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...

01-17-2003, 07:00 AM	#11
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	True, O dwarf of the upside-down 666. Now that you guys mention it, the Cave Troll did seem to be pulling his punches a little bit. You'd think he'd be capable of a much better stab than the weeny little prick he uses on Frodo. <P>While we're in the Chamber of Mazarbul, how is Sam's frying pan easier to draw out than a sword? Maybe he needs to stop keeping it in his sheath. "Stupid, fat hobbit." Yeah, you said it, Sméagol... __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-17-2003, 08:01 AM	#12
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	Oh, and why did the cave troll more or less concentrate on Frodo?<BR>Because Frodo was the ring bearer? <BR>And, yeah, the troll could have carried more than this lttle spear-thingie. It must have seemed to him(her?) to be nothing more than a toothpick. But, if he had hit Frodo with, let's say a tree-trunk, things would have been not so easy for Frodo.<BR>So, P.J. thought he had to add a little change, so that it looked more spectacular, but he forgot to give the troll a weapon that was appropriate for his stature. __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...

01-17-2003, 09:40 AM	#13
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	The troll didn't come in with the spear. Aragorn stabbed him witn it and then the troll used it against Frodo. He just grabbed what was available.<P>He had a very troll sized club when he came in, but I'm not sure what happened to it. I'ld have to watch to see if he dropped it or something. He definately had it when he took a swing at Merry, Pippin and Frodo.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-17-2003, 09:59 AM	#14
Aratlithiel Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 196	The troll had the club up over his head and was in the process of swinging it down on Frodo when Aragorn jumped up and speared him at which point he dropped it over the back of his shoulder.<P>And yes, he zeroes in on Frodo because he's the Ring-bearer. In the book he's a large Orc chieftain and Gandalf notices that starting with the Watcher in the water, all of the "bad guys" seem to make a bee-line straight for Frodo. __________________ - I must find the Mountain of Fire and cast the thing into the gulf of Doom. Gandalf said so. I do not think I shall ever get there. - Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. - Where are we going?...And why am I in this handbasket?

02-02-2003, 03:34 PM	#15
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	Yeah after seeing it again I can remember now how it was. And after seeing the "extended version" dvd we also know that the troll is a "HE".<BR>But I still think that hit by a troll, Frodo's chest would surely be smashed, Mithril-coat or not. __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...

02-02-2003, 06:29 PM	#16
dunadan_aragorn Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the bowels of Moria Posts: 105	I would also like to point out that this is ANOTHER time in the movie where Aragorn looks like he is dead.C'mon PJ! We know he's not gonna die! Give it up! __________________ Allia Octa Est, The Die is Cast -Julius Ceaser

02-04-2003, 02:11 PM	#17
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	What scene do you mean, dunadan? __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...

02-04-2003, 02:14 PM	#18
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I think he's talking about when Aragorn fell off the cliff in TTT.<P>In my opinion though, no one beats Frodo for feigning death.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-04-2003, 02:26 PM	#19
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	Hm, that scene shouldn't be in the movie. I don't think that it was necessary to put it in the plot. <BR>Oh another scene that would fit to the thread name is the scene when Gimli dives unnder the orc and, well I think his axe has a little confrontation with the orc's groin. hehe, that's gotta hurt. __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...

02-05-2003, 01:44 PM	#20
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	There already was a thread concerning <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001762" TARGET=_blank>Aragorn's Fall</A>. Lot's of opinions both for and against.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-06-2003, 09:26 AM	#21
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Oh another scene that would fit to the thread name is the scene when Gimli dives unnder the orc and, well I think his axe has a little confrontation with the orc's groin. hehe, that's gotta hurt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <P>He-he-he.<P>Actually, I'm not really sure I needed to see that.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-06-2003, 12:17 PM	#22
Balin999 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2000 Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon Posts: 493	Well, that scene just shows that Gimli really likes to fight when he doesn't play the fool (in the movie, not the books) __________________ ...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door...