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10-04-2017, 11:24 PM | #1 |
Wight
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The Void
So just a passing question-if a mortal man was suspended in the void outside Eä how would he perceive it? Darkness? White? Just nothingness?
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10-05-2017, 06:24 AM | #2 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Since the Void was Nothing, I don't know that even the existence of consciousness in any of the Children of Ilúvatar could be possible.
Though Men were not tied to Arda as Elves, the destination of their fea after physical death would be a similar plane, I think, and maybe the opposite of the Void.
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10-05-2017, 04:27 PM | #3 |
Wight
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What I meant was is say you take a mortal man and teleport him to the Void what would he perceive if anything?
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10-05-2017, 04:59 PM | #4 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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A question of philosophy: if you put something into the Void, is it still a void if it's not void of everything?
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10-05-2017, 05:14 PM | #5 |
Gruesome Spectre
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It depends on whether the fea could exist there. And that's just speculation. My opinion would be negative.
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10-05-2017, 09:49 PM | #6 |
Wight
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Melkor searched the Void for the flame imperishable yet it was still void.
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10-06-2017, 05:25 AM | #7 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Yes, and Melkor clearly could retain conscience and awareness there. Yet he was an Ainu, and the ability of a disembodied spirit to remain-self aware can not necessarily also be imparted to a mortal Man.
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10-06-2017, 06:44 AM | #8 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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As usual, we can find interesting information, if not answers, in "Myths Transformed". In part (iii) of 'Notes on motives in the Silmarillion', Professor Tolkien defines the Void as "a conception of the state of Not-being, outside Creation or Eä":
Quote:
I say this as someone who has always imaged Melkor striding about in the darkness looking for something he cannot find. If the Void is 'the state of Not-being', and as we know it is timeless ("the Timeless Void"), then I suspect its existence is more conceptual than physical - separation from Eru and the Flame Imperishable. I also suspect that it might be something arguably metaphysical because the Void is nothingness. There is nothingness (the Void) and there is "thingness" (Eru, the Timeless Halls and Eä).
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10-06-2017, 11:29 AM | #9 |
Wight
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I always imagined Melkor the same striding around an infinite black nothingness looking for a fire he could not find. It's easier to imagine that than it is to imagine it metaphysically.
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10-09-2017, 04:13 PM | #10 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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Which is kind of the point, right?
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10-11-2017, 08:47 AM | #11 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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It might also be worth pointing out that it's unclear which "Void" Morgoth was cast into at the end of the First Age.
Quote:
Ainuldinalë also implies that the Void has spatial dimensions: Quote:
I really think that to a degree the Void is beyond human comprehension...
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10-11-2017, 11:32 AM | #12 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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Quote:
Men were creatures of Eä. The Void, whether a physical or spiritual realm, would seem to be not of the material universe, as it was a negative of 'the World That Is'. As the mortal cannot comprehend the eternal, the 'real' lacks a capacity to understand the 'unreal'. Lunchtime philosophy 101.
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10-11-2017, 10:31 PM | #13 |
Wight
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On a related cosmological note are there other worlds in Ea?
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10-12-2017, 02:46 PM | #14 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Possibly, I would say. Why would Eru be in any way limited in creative power? But if those other world existed, none but their Creator could know.
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10-17-2017, 05:33 AM | #15 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Only Eru knows
That was a good question you asked, Rhun charioteer, about whether there are other worlds in Eä. I agree with you, Inziladun, that only Eru would know...
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10-17-2017, 04:59 PM | #16 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
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I always did consider it a fascinating question.
This is a bit of a more idle question-what do the Ainur who didn't descend into Ëa do? Sing to Iluvatar all the time(if time as a concept can be said to exist in the Timeless Halls). |
10-17-2017, 05:49 PM | #17 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Worship their Creator, and sit back to watch the Great Play he'd authored.
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