How do you pronounce it? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Turin Turambar · 05-30-2002, 10:04 AM

How do you pronounce words like "Maedhros" and "Caradhras". In the appendix I think it says the consonant cluster "dh" should be prounounced as "rn", but I also read somewhere else that it should be pronounce as "th". I'm not sure if either of them is correct.

Aiwendil · 05-30-2002, 10:21 AM

Tolkien's 'dh' should be pronounced as a voiced 'th', as in 'there' or 'the'.

MallornLeaf · 06-12-2002, 12:40 PM

Yes, "dh" is pronounced "th". If you go to the appendices, you'll get ALL the pronounciations. Also, in the back of the Sil, lots of pronounciations can be found! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

MallornLeaf · 06-15-2002, 12:54 PM

I had another question. my and some of my friends like to have friendly arguments about this! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Is Saruman pronounced
sar-U-men,
or
SAR-u-man? (with a slight and lesser accent on the u)
lemme know what you all think!

Veritas · 06-15-2002, 01:28 PM

I say SA-ru-mon, but i don't know how you must say it.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-15-2002, 02:19 PM

I read in the appendix that a word ending in D sounds like a V. Would that mean that Gandalf sounds like Gan-Dalv?

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-15-2002, 04:56 PM

That's the way Frodo pronouced it in the movie, and the movie did stick very close to correct pronounciations, so maybe so.

obloquy · 06-16-2002, 03:41 PM

YEAH SINCE GANDALF ENDS IN D

06-17-2002, 11:05 PM

Saruman is pronounced with the accent on the first syllable and with each "a" pronounced like the "a" in "father" and the "r" rolled or trilled....SA-ru-man

***Sharkû*** · 06-18-2002, 12:32 AM

"Saruman, his name among Northern Men, contains the Anglo-Saxon word searu, saru 'skill, cunning, cunning device.'" (UT)

"4. Back Mutation [in Old English:]
Appears before liquids and labial consonants (i.e. r, l; p, b, f, m):
i > io (hira > heora)
e > eo (herot > heorot)
a > ea (saru > searu)"
[therefore we have to use the latter form in a modern text using OE unless stated otherwise]

"ea begins with the sound of e and glides towards the back of the mouth, giving a sound not unlike that in 'bared, Baird'; "

As for the -man, it is really a matter hardly to be grasped in modern ENglish at all: "root-stems which according to Germanic laws of Ablaut, change the root vowel during the declension. In Modern English such words still exist, and we all know them: goose - geese, tooth - teeth, foot - feet, mouse - mice etc. " The form is 'mann' in some, 'menn' in other places. Since Tolkien anglicized as far as possible (see app. F), we can probably say [mæn] throughout.

I suggest the sites
Pronunciation of Old English and The Historical Grammar of the Old English Language , from both of which I have quoted.

05-30-2002, 10:04 AM	#1
Turin Turambar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: U.S.A Posts: 24	How do you pronounce it? How do you pronounce words like "Maedhros" and "Caradhras". In the appendix I think it says the consonant cluster "dh" should be prounounced as "rn", but I also read somewhere else that it should be pronounce as "th". I'm not sure if either of them is correct. __________________ "Yea, I will drink thy blood gladly, that so I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and the blood of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly." The sword Gurthang

06-12-2002, 12:40 PM	#3
MallornLeaf Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Location: who cares? Posts: 76	Yes, "dh" is pronounced "th". If you go to the appendices, you'll get ALL the pronounciations. Also, in the back of the Sil, lots of pronounciations can be found! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ ". . . All we must decide is what to do with the time that is given us." "I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."

06-15-2002, 12:54 PM	#4
MallornLeaf Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Location: who cares? Posts: 76	I had another question. my and some of my friends like to have friendly arguments about this! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Is Saruman pronounced sar-U-men, or SAR-u-man? (with a slight and lesser accent on the u) lemme know what you all think! __________________ ". . . All we must decide is what to do with the time that is given us." "I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."

06-15-2002, 01:28 PM	#5
Veritas Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 131	I say SA-ru-mon, but i don't know how you must say it. __________________ With the birds I'll share this lonely view. ~Red Hot Chili Peppers, Scar Tisue~ Laurëfin

06-15-2002, 02:19 PM	#6
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	I read in the appendix that a word ending in D sounds like a V. Would that mean that Gandalf sounds like Gan-Dalv? __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

05-30-2002, 10:21 AM	#2
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Tolkien's 'dh' should be pronounced as a voiced 'th', as in 'there' or 'the'.

06-15-2002, 04:56 PM	#7
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	That's the way Frodo pronouced it in the movie, and the movie did stick very close to correct pronounciations, so maybe so. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

06-16-2002, 03:41 PM	#8
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 935	YEAH SINCE GANDALF ENDS IN D

06-17-2002, 11:05 PM	#9
Eloin Guest Posts: n/a	Saruman is pronounced with the accent on the first syllable and with each "a" pronounced like the "a" in "father" and the "r" rolled or trilled....SA-ru-man

06-18-2002, 12:32 AM	#10
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	"Saruman, his name among Northern Men, contains the Anglo-Saxon word searu, saru 'skill, cunning, cunning device.'" (UT) "4. Back Mutation [in Old English:] Appears before liquids and labial consonants (i.e. r, l; p, b, f, m): i > io (hira > heora) e > eo (herot > heorot) a > ea (saru > searu)" [therefore we have to use the latter form in a modern text using OE unless stated otherwise] "ea begins with the sound of e and glides towards the back of the mouth, giving a sound not unlike that in 'bared, Baird'; " As for the -man, it is really a matter hardly to be grasped in modern ENglish at all: "root-stems which according to Germanic laws of Ablaut, change the root vowel during the declension. In Modern English such words still exist, and we all know them: goose - geese, tooth - teeth, foot - feet, mouse - mice etc. " The form is 'mann' in some, 'menn' in other places. Since Tolkien anglicized as far as possible (see app. F), we can probably say [mæn] throughout. I suggest the sites Pronunciation of Old English and The Historical Grammar of the Old English Language , from both of which I have quoted.