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Old 05-22-2009, 07:56 AM   #1
JeffF.
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Army Composition/Soldier Types

Composition/Soldier Types of the Armies of Third Age Middle Earth

These are my conclusions on the make-up or components of each army:

The Army of Rohan would consist mainly of medium cavalry and not as many heavily armed knights. This conclusion is due to the horse herding culture and the fact that the ratio of heavy cavalry to light in historic Scythian type cultures is about 1 to 10. Tolkein wrote in a letter that he saw them as being similar to the Norman knights depicted on the Bayeux tapestry (given his other descriptions of them he must have envisaged them as Norman knights with some horse archers). Trade with Gondor would improve armaments so that the majority cavalry would be partially armored and well armed (thus my conclusion they were medium cavalry). Excerpts from UT and LOTR variously describe the ratio of horse archers to other cavalry as between one of ten and one of seven riders. My conclusion is that in a typical Rohan host 1 of 8 heavy cavalry (Household eoreds of the Royal family like early Medieval Knights), 1 of 8 horse archers (like late Roman cataphracts), 6 of 8 medium cavalry (like Norman cavalry with light armor, shields, helmets).

According to UT (Disaster at Gladden Fields) the Army of Gondor was mainly infantry but by the time of the War of the Ring there were significant mounted contingents (like the Knights of Dol Amroth). Archers would also be significant (like those of Pinnath Gelin and the Rangers of Ithilien). LOTR talks about both axe-men and spearmen, but the signature weapon of Numenoreans seems to be the longsword (from UT Disaster at Gladden Fields). Based on typical historical medieval armies I believe they would have about 1/4 Cavalry (half heavy armored knights, half less well armored mounted sergeants/squires), 1/4 archers (archers of the TA no longer used the ‘steel bows’ of the SA), 1/2 infantry (half long-sword men remainder spearmen and axe-men).

Beornings I conclude these would mainly be big men on big horses, not necessarily heavily armored but definitely heavy armed. This is due to their historic ancestral ties to the Rohirrim, and the need for mobility in the vales of Anduin and their reputed great stature. They would be also be a form of mounted infantry, able to fight in the hills, mountains of the Misty Mountains as well as under the eaves of Mirkwood, helms and shields were probably the limit of their protective hear and they would be familiar with horse archery with swords and spears for close combat.

Woodmen. These cousins of the Beornings would be mainly archers, javelineers, axe-men and swordsmen. Entirely infantry they would be much like the Rangers of Ithilien. Woodcrafty, they would excel in partisan warfare, the ambush and raid.

Army of Dale. Typical city state medieval army. They would probably have a higher ratio of cavalry due to their common ancestry with the Rohirrim. I'd say 1/3 cavalry (3/4 Knights and 1/4 horse archers). The infantry mainly long-sword men (as they were in the Battle of Five Armies). They would be exceptionally well armed with their proximity and trade ties to the Dwarves of the Kingdom Under The Mountain with matchless weaponry and strong armor (thus most of the cavalry heavily armored and not ‘medium’).

Elven Army of Thranduil. 1/2 archers and 1/2 spearmen. Traditionally poorly armored like their relatives the Green Elves of Ossiriand. The bow and spear were their traditional weapons. Spears (long spears/Pikes) are not typical weapons for forest cultures but the short spears that can double as thrusting weapons and (at need) javelins are. Their good relations with Esgaroth (and subsequently the Kingdom of Dale) would give them trade access to Dwarf crafted weaponry from the Kingdom of Erebor, at least in the TA. They were woodcrafty beyond the skill of the woodmen also ambushers and raiders.

Elven Army of Lorien. 1/2 archers and 1/2 spearmen. Similar to Thranduil's host they have superior bows (as described in the gift of the Lothlorien bow to Legolas, said to be superior to his peoples, being stronger and it is assumed greater range and penetrability). Woodcrafty (like Thranduil's) They would have greater morale due to the overlord-ship of Galadriel and the faith in her power to protect Lorien.

Dwarves (of Erebor and Ered Luin). Almost entirely heavily armored axe-men with stout chain mail, round shields and shortswords (as Gimli is described as well as the host of Dain at Battle of Five Armies). H mentions horn bows (composite bows) which would require the craftsmanship dwarves were famous for. This would give them a small but very effective body of missile troops (though the overwhelming majority of dwarves would seem to prefer close combat with the axe). It is likely that ‘younger’ dwarves that have not reached full adulthood would be used as archers.

Hobbits/Men of Bree. Typical medieval militia infantry. The hobbits would seem to prefer bows and slings when it comes to combat. Probably 2/3 archers and slingers, remainder militia type spearmen (as most of the Bree men would be) with some armed with wood cutting axes, farm implements like scythes and flails (like giant nunchaku sticks AKA 'Nunchaks or Numchaks' actually evolved from an implement used to thresh grain).

High Elves. These few remaining would be the best armed with the weapons and armor of the Noldor. They would have significant cavalry 1/3-1/4 of the host. They would also be supported by many Sindarin archers. Few in number they would probably would man defenses of the havens and Rivendell. A few of the eldest Noldor who had seen the Light of Aman in the Blessed Kingdom would be like Glorfindel (as described in FR) and would have great power that the servants of Sauron would have quailed before; Galadriel would also be one of these.

Haradrim. These were a coalition of different peoples similar to African and Middle East warriors. Scarlet seems to be the color of choice for uniforms of most Haradrim. Having few horsemen these would be mainly infantry (spearmen with some archers) and medium cavalry similar to Saracens and Turks with light armor, scimitars and spears. They would also have a number of war elephants (mumakil), said to be much larger than elephants we know, difficult to control and liable to go beserk among their own troops as well as the enemy. Infantry types include ‘troll-men’ described as black and tall as trolls - probably in physique like the Watusi of Africa – the tallest humans, if so they would be armed with spears and protected by shields of hides. Majority of infantry should be unarmored or with leather armor but all would carry shields and perhaps a few elite units with metal helms and armor armed with spears and swords.

Variags of Khand are undescribed but should be similar to Haradrim in armament but far fewer in number.

Easterlings. Again majority infantry, some bearded axemen (described as never being encountered before) with 'few' horsemen described in FR as horse archers also chieftains in chariots. Charioteers not mentioned in Battle of Pelennor nor the Battle at the Black Gate, likely then that the chariots were in the army that attacked Dale/Erebor. UT (Cirion and Eorl) describes Easterlings as using pikes for defense against cavalry .

Orcs. Varying from heavily armored and armed Uruks to lightly armed goblin archers. These were the majority of the Dark Lord's Infantry. Uruks were elite units say one out of ten in ratio, described as man-high and some being armed with bows of yew. Uruks also served as leaders in units of lesser orcs. Additional breeds of orcs included trackers (archers) with keen sense of smell. Lesser orcs also had large individuals but not Uruks, indicating variation in size. Orcs could be fierce when I overwhelming numbers, driven by leaders like Nazgul or avenging a fallen chieftain but could also be infected by fear. Orcs were armed with serviceable weapons and sometimes heavy armor, Uruks carried short broad bladed swords while the lesser Orcs carried scimitars (called bent swords in H). Orcs were said to be skillful at inventing weapons of war (perhaps siege engines).

Trolls. These are the shock troops of the Dark Lord. Armed with great hammers and protected by scales (Boromir’s sword stroke bounced off the cave troll’s hide), they seem to be vulnerable in the TA only to special weapons like elven swords (like Sting) and barrow swords (like Pippin's – a sword of the ancient Dunedain). Few in number they are at most described as being 'companies' not battalions. Probably less than 50 in each, if there were more they would have overwhelmed the Army of the West - standing before the Black Gate on the two slag hills in short order, breaking thru their ranks and allowing the horde of Orcs and evil men in. Olog Hai were the latest breed, developed by Sauron, they could withstand sunlight while under his power. Trolls as described were like Ents and were around twice the height of men. Bred in mockery of Ents from an unknown stock – they were stone like. Other breeds include Stone Trolls, Cave Trolls, and Hill Trolls. Perhaps these are the ‘Giants’ referred to in the Hobbit and I. Hurin killed 70 of these in the battle of Unnumbered Tears with an axe that was not an Elven weapon so perhaps Trolls had evolved or Sauron developed some scale like protective armor for them.

Dunlendings. A poorly armed people as described in UT (the battle of the Fords). Few with armor (except those who captured some) and armed with spears, swords. They would also have some cavalry (unarmored except for champions and chieftains), UT describes some battalions of pikemen during the battles of the Isen crossings. These are probably Dunlendings (probably in the model of Scottish Schiltrons of the Braveheart era) who developed the use of the pike armed formations as a defense against the cavalry of Rohan.
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:04 PM   #2
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An excellent analysis. As I lack any real background in medieval miltary tactics and strategy, I cannot contest your breakdowns of the respective military forces, but I will offer some comments based upon what we know from LoTR.

There is no direct evidence the Beornings used cavalry. Beorn himself appears to have travelled to the Battle of Five Armies on foot. While they are of the same stock as the Rohirrim, this alone is not a basis to conclude they preferred to battle on horseback. Rather Beorn seems to be based upon the berserker.

I doubt that the Elves of Mirkwood carried spears in any great number, at least when defending their own land which is heavy primeval forest. The use of guerilla-style hit and run tactics using bows and knives is more likely. Compare them to the Green-Elves of Ossiriand, who, for example, waylaid and destroyed a force of heavily armed Dwarves using such tactics. Legolas, presumably arrayed in anticipation of the likelihood of combat, carried only a long knife and a bow. If he preferred or was used to carrying heavier weaponry, he certainly could have been so armed by Elrond.
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Old 05-23-2009, 08:04 PM   #3
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I know historical military tactics, strategy and different cultures composition of armies pretty well. I have to agree with most of what you said. Although I do agree with the mistakes pointed out by Mithadan. There definitely are Elves that carry spears but from what I know an Elvish spear is more of a blade and less of a shaft like most spears.
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:27 AM   #4
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Elves and Spears

Hello Mithadon,

My conclusion that Silvan armies were armed with bows and spears is based on the description of Thranduil's Army in the Hobbit. At the Battle of Five Armies he launched a charge of 1000 spearmen after a hail of arrows by his archers. Culturally it also makes sense, the Silvan elves were metal poor particularlythose with poor relations with the Dwarves (who in past ages seem to have been the producer of arms for the Elves of Doriath). The Silvan elves would require some close combat arm once their enemies closed from long range arrow exchanges and spears are a very economical weapon as far as metal since far more spears could be produced from a given amount of steel than swords. The Sindarin lords who emigrated to live among the Silvan Elves (as described in Unfinished Tales - Galadriel and Celeborn) in Greenwood were those that had the worst relations with the Noldor and furthermore wished to return to the more natural state so much that they abandoned their Sindarin speech and adopted the Silvan elf tongue. Since the Hobbit description of the Silvan elf spearmen is virtually the only other arm besides bows that they are associated with I think it cannot be ignored.

Unfinished Tales (Cirion and Eorl) describe that the Rohirrim inhabited the entire northern vales of Anduin before most of them moved south to occupy the gift of Rohan from Gondor. While their cousins the Woodmen of Greenwood were footmen due to their terrain the more open land of the Vales of Anduin that attracted the ancestors of the Rohirrim to emigrate from Rhovannion would require more mobility that these stay-behinds from the exodus of the Rohirrim would not have abandoned. They are more than related to the Rohirrim, they are virtually the same people and culture. Beorn himself was not one for riding horses. His description in the Hobbit makes it clear he himself had no such need (since in his bear shape he could travel far and fast)

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Old 05-24-2009, 08:29 AM   #5
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First I would like to say just a stunning analysis on the composition of armies, and I would hate to nit-pick on something. But remember the fact that we actually are nit picking is a testament to the amount of research and overall good analysis.

Quote:
(Boromir’s sword stroke bounced off the cave troll’s hide),
The cave troll in Moria was an invention by the movies. It was a large orc leader the Fellowship fought, but the point is pretty accurate. Because Boromir's blade was notched as he hit the black orc leader and he was driven back. Then the orc ducked under Aragorn's blow, so this orc leader was strong and agile.
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Old 05-24-2009, 10:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Boromir88 View Post
The cave troll in Moria was an invention by the movies.
Not quite, though PJ extended its part. LoTR Book II, The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm:
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There was a blow on the door that made it quiver; and then it began to grind slowly open, driving back the wedges. A huge arm and shoulder, with a dark skin of greenish scales, was thrust through the opening gap. Then a great, flat, toeless foot was forced through below. There was dead silence outside.
Boromir leaped forward and hewed at the arm with all his might; but his sword rang, glanced aside, and fell from his shaken hand. The blade was notched.
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Old 05-24-2009, 06:09 PM   #7
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Ooh, I always thought that was another Orc, because Frodo stabs him in the foot...although I guess the "green scales" and the fact that it notched Boromir's blade would go to show it probably wasn't an orc. Nice catch.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:57 AM   #8
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Hakon your spears description

Hakon,

You posted that Elven spears were broad bladed. Can you please point me to the description in the books? I haven't found one myself.

thanks,

Jeff
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:11 AM   #9
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Hi all,

back home again, and with a bit of time to consider a reply!

Excellent analysis JeffF. The problem with Tolkien's military side being that he rarely gives full descriptions and numbers, but leaves us just enough titbits of information to theorize. Therefore its partly 'hard' data, partly 'gut instinct' and partly historical parallels that we have to use. This means that there is rarely a 100% correct answer but its great to debate it all.

OK then, a quick zip through JeffF's post-

Rohan- mostly agree though I would put the ratio of armoured cavalry a bit higher. In HoME 10,000 'fully-equipped' cavalry are mentioned, though admittedly this may refer to having a decent horse, spear and shield only. The culture seems to be a mix of nomadic and settled. Don't forget the infantry, I'd see them as something akin to Saxon Fyrd, with a few bows but mostly spearmen. One thing to consider is the historical tactic of putting the well-equipped armoured warriors in the first rank, supported by less-well-equipped in rear ranks, possible for both cavalry and infantry. Also that 'heaviness' of cavalry is based on attitude as well as equipment.

Gondor- ah a whole different kettle of fish! I'd like to split them into 2 different forces, Minas Tirith and 'The Rest'.

Minas Tirith -

few cavalry (Gandalf mentions this), but those presumably very well armed and armoured.

Regular heavy infantry in high quality chainmail, helmets etc, such as the Tower Guard, garrisons of the outworks etc - spear, sword, shield, perhaps some elite bowmen too.

Rangers - ME 'special forces' ! Spear-or-bow, maybe with some light chainmail, camouflaged in green cloaks etc, ideal for ambushes and raids.

The Men of the City - a militia but a good quality militia (eg Republican Romans), not full time professionals but well trained and reasonably equipped, probably the front rank of better-off men armoured, but not the rest. Armed with spears or bows.

The Rest - Rather a mix from the different Fiefs. Would not be so sure of the high proportion of cavalry, but difficult to say with the info we have. eg. Imrahil's lot were mostly on foot, with one company of knights, but they were planning to defend a city, so this is logical!

On swords, it is noticeable that the rank-and-file rarely got them in historical times, usual equipment being a spear, shield and knife for the average peasant spearman, therefore a sword was viewed as a mark of rank, except in very well organised armies like the Imperial Romans, where everyone got one. Therefore likely in Gondor, but drawing on Isildur's company for 3000 years later might be a bit iffy!

Beornings- still not convinced on Beorning cavalry, though there's no real evidence either way. I see them as Veggie Vikings, prone to big axes and berserker rages. Though its interesting to note that historical Vikings used horses when they could get them, even if they often were for transport not battle. The Beornings appear to have fought (mostly?) in the foothills and Misty Mountains (they re-opened some of the passes by defeating the goblins) so cavalry not so useful there.

Woodmen - agree entirely, presumably these would be the bowmen that the eagles were wary of, so longbows perhaps?

Dale - an interesting one, they appear to be mostly infantry at Battle of the Five Armies, but had expanded since that time to take in territories to the east on the plains where cavalry would be essential.

Thranduil - agree, though I think they may well have stored up some decent chainmail for the spearmen at least, from Dwarven or Dale sources, after all they had plenty of time to do this!

Lothlorien- agree too

Dwarves - yep, spot on, also war-mattocks too. Do you have the reference for the horn (ie composite) bows? I don't remember that.

Hobbits - armed peasantry! Good if, presumbly, short-ranged archers, gardening & agricultural tools and whatever was lying around, these could be quite effective, eg the bill. Also possibility of some decent weaponry 'hanging over the fireplace' or stored in Michel Delving Mathom House.

High Elves - yep! Possibly even a bit of Beleriand-era armour still around that Elrond mentioned.

Haradrim- woah! Remember the scimitar-armed cavalry at Pelennor, that made up at least 1/3 of their army. I've wondered if they were horse-archers like the Saracens etc, or perhaps javelin-armed, presumably 'light-ish' but prepared to countercharge (unwisely!) the Rohirrim rather than evade. Also possibly riding smaller horses than those of Rohan. Infantry agree.

Variags - a very difficult one, the word means 'wanderer' and originally applied to the Vikings in Russia. I guess this could mean 'nomad' and that the Variags were steppe horse-archers, but a number of interpretations are possible.

Easterlings - again a difficult one, often viewed as Mongol- or Hun- style steppe horse archers too, but this doesn't square with the large proportion of infantry. I've wondered if they could be equated with Ancient Eastern Europeans, eg the bearded axemen are reminiscent of Dacian falxmen, the wagons bring to mind the Goths, though the chariots are more Celtic. Interesting spot of pikes in UT! Maybe one could view them as similar to migration-period Germanic tribes. Could be that the chariots were 'Chieftain's staff-car' so not very prominent at the Pelennor (lurking at the back perhaps)?

Orcs - yup!

Trolls - not sure if the scales were the actual skin of the troll or some sort of armour (maybe nameless-thing-that-gnaws-the-world-beneath-hide?). Could be just that Boromir had an unlucky strike (edge not point?).

Dunlendings - agree. Though I think the pikemen and mixed halforc/man units were probably Saruman's own specially-trained troops and taught the common tongue, whereas the majority would be semi-independent tribes under their own chieftains speaking their own language.

Some others -

Rangers of Arnor - see Rangers above, only more so and on horses when they felt like it.

Ruffians - remnants of Saruman's human troops - note they speak the common tongue not 'Dunlendingish'.

Corsairs - probably mostly quite lightly equipped, being seafarers and raiders. A bit pirate-y, cutlasses, scimitars, short spears, bows etc. Possibly more use for raiding and skirmishing than in a stand-up fight. However there might well be a subset of the Unfaithful and Black Numenoreans who would be rather more formidable.

Morgul- Note the Witch King's cavalry regiment - presumably Black Numenoreans - elite troops, probably used to force the unwilling snagas into combat!

Wolves - used as-is or as orc mounts. I don't believe they looked like giant hyenas! Common in the Misty Mountains, whence came Saruman's lot I guess. Not much mention of them in the armies of Mordor, but I imagine a few must have been about.

Eagles, Ents, Giants(?) - big and v scary!

Artillery - Mordor had plenty, with trebuchet-like devices, siege towers, Grond etc. Gondor had some (possibly scorpios?) that were out-ranged. Saruman too.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffF. View Post
Hakon,

You posted that Elven spears were broad bladed. Can you please point me to the description in the books? I haven't found one myself.

thanks,

Jeff
I actually made my assumption here based off the movies. Although from what I know the person who designed the spear for the movie is the same person who did a lot of the cover art for the books. This may not be accurate, it is just an assumption.
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:31 AM   #11
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Soldier Types

Rumil,

The reference to bows of horn was in the Hobbit, as Thorin is negotiating with Bard he grabs a "bow of horn." Tolkien probably refers to the Scythian or Hun type bow which was a composite of wood, horn, sinew and bone.

I disagree on the amount of horsemen of the Haradrim, in RotK the Siege of Gondor, Gandalph is describing to Pippin that the Gondorians must prepare a sortie of horsemen because they have that advantage over their enemies, he says, "in them lies our brief hope, in one thing only is the enemy still poorly provided, he has few horsemen." As the host that besieges Minas Tirith has Haradrim, Easterlings and Variags, apparently none of these lands have been able to provide Sauron with many horsemen. Haradrim cavalry is described later battling the Rohorrim but given Gandalph's earlier INTEL they were not a large part of the enemy host, certainly if the Haradrim had 6000 horsemen (your 1/3 of the 18000 Tolkien describes - thrice the number of the Rohirrim) Gandalph would not have made such a statement.

The Easterling armies are described in FotR, The Breaking of the Fellowship. As Frodo is escaping from Boromir while wearing the Ring he has visions of the armies of the enemy, the Easterlings are described as swordmen, spearmen, horse archers and chieftains on chariots. As the charioteers are not described at Minas Tirith perhaps these particular Easterling tribes were those marching against Dale and Erebor.

There were more mounted Gondor contingents. Aragorn's force included men from Lamedon led by Angbor who was bringing all the horsemen he could muster. It is likely that Gondor's force had evolved since the days they were mostly longswordsmen and steelbowmen (as describedin Unfinished Tales - Disaster at Gladden Fields), and the battles described to them in RotK appendices would have forced them to develop a mounted force as a compensation over the superior numbers of their Eastern and Southern enemies. Also the ancestors of the Rohirrim are said to have entered the service of Gondor's armies. These mercenaries and/or allies would have influenced Gondor's armies. The appendices state that many of these integrated into Gondor and so would bring with them their tradition of mounted warfare.
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Old 05-25-2009, 12:20 PM   #12
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Hi JeffF,

great find on Thorin's bow, I'd not noticed that one!

I'm still convinced there were plenty of Haradrim cavalry. Gandalf's quote is right at the start of the siege on Minas Tirith, as the mounted foray is being planned, when the forces that the Witch King has brought up are those of Minas Morgul. These contained some Southrons, (and likely the black-clothed cavalry of Morgul) but the way I read it is that the majority of the Haradrim arrived later. eg.

Quote:
Far behind the battle the River had been swiftly bridged and all day more force and gear of war had poured across
However, by the time of the charge of the Rohirrim these forces were in place and the horsemen of the Haradrim were gathered around the serpent standard of their cheftain.

Quote:
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest
So the Southron cavalry outnumbered the Rohirrim, who were about 5500 strong by that stage, so there should have been at least 6000 Haradrim cavalry, out of their total force of at least 18,000, thrice the number of Rohirrim.

Yes agree with you on the Easterlings, though perhaps the chieftains' chariots were for transport only or 'command vehicles' and thus not sufficiently prominent in the battle to be recorded.

Also agree with the likelihood that the Fiefs of Gondor could field a good force of cavalry, though impossible to say how much. However Minas Tirith itself was poorly provided with horse (led in battle by Hurin the Warder of the Keys), even after reinforcement by Imrahil etc. On the volunteers of Rohan its interesting to note that some had even joined Faramir's Rangers.
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:32 PM   #13
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On the Sindar: Those of Doriath F.A. were described as being the "axe-Elves," and T describes the hoards of axes Thingol purchased from the Dwarves. This preference may well have been transferred to Lorien and Mirkwood when those realms were "Sindarized under the impact of Beleriandic culture;" and axes also make sense for iron-poor woodland folk. Even if the Wood-elves were primarily spear-armed, they were not a peasant militia and one would assume that, like the hoplites and phalangites, they carried a secondary weapon for close-in work.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:22 PM   #14
JeffF.
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Hi Rumil,

i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Gandalph's statement to me is based on what he knows of the enemy as a whole and not a temporary state of affairs. Theoden also divided his charge into three parts with Eomer following the King's household troops down the center, Elfhelm leading the right flank and Grimbold leading the left. This would have been necessary to engage the larger enemy force and bringing the greatest shock action to bear. Each of these divisions would have had about 2000 Rohirrim. The way I read the engagment: "...their horsemen were gathered about the standard of their chieftain. And he looked out....he saw the banner of the king...with few men about it,...then he came against the white horse with a great press of men...." to me that means the Haradrim were concentrating against Theoden and the men of the King's household "the few" that were with him at that moment and not a general attack against the entire mass of the Haradrim and that the statement made about the King's men being fewer is pertaining only to this small engagement within the general action.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:44 PM   #15
Rumil
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Hi JeffF,

agree that its ambiguous, were the Haradrim outnumbering Theoden's eored, Theoden's 'division' of 2000, or the entire force of Rohirric cav? I don't think one can tell with certainty from the text but even if it were just the central division, they might be 3000 or more.

I'm also tempted to see the Haradrim as similar to the Moors in Spain or the Saracens, that were quite cavalry-heavy. Therefore 1/3 of the force being cav would be, if anything, rather on the low side. It's an open question too as to what the rest of the 18,000 or so Haradrim were, inf or cav, apart from the Mumakil of course.

Also it removes one of the few 'hard numbers' we have !

As for Gandalf's remark it seems plain to me that this was considering the forces available at that time, to base it on the forces that would arrive in a day or two's time is illogical.

Quote:
'A sortie must be made ready. Let it be of mounted men. In them lies our brief hope, for in one thing only is the enemy still poorly provided: he has few horsemen.'
'And also we have few...' said Denethor
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