The Last Age - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ilon · 10-12-2002, 04:08 AM

Why did Gandalf and company sailed out to sea, i don't remember the island they're going to and little is said about it in the book, at the last part of the trilogy?
And why was Gandalf hesitant to use his powers at that age (i think it was the end of the third age)?
Do the last age signify the dominance of humans?

ilon · 10-12-2002, 04:13 AM

Those questions lingered as i flipped the last pages of the trilogy. Though i'm still hoping the day i'll possess my own copy of the books and not borrow anymore (savin up), and stil hoping i'd stumble upon a copy of SILMARILLION.
Borrow it if i still can't afforred to buy my own.

davem · 10-12-2002, 05:40 AM

Hi, I know you'll get lots more informative & detailed answers than this, but, just to start. The Ringbearers & the Elves are going to Valinor, the Undying Lands, ruled by the Valar, kind of gods/Archangels, who rule the world under the authority of God, called by the elves Illuvatar . The Elves in the First age were invited to leave Middle Earth & live in Valinor. Some of them rebelled & left after a Melkor, the original Dark Lord, killed the Two Trees which gave Light to the world before the Sun & Moon, & stole the Silmarils, 3 jewels created by the elf Feanor, which he had made. The wars of the Elves against Melkor is the subject of the Silmarillion.
So at the end of the Lord of the rings, you have the belves, including some of the ones., like Galadriel, who left thousands of years before, & thought they could never return, going back, as a reward for what they did in the war of the ring. Its kind of circular - at the begining, the Elves leave 'Paradise' - Valinor - come into Middle earth, fight wars & go through terrible sufferings, & then return home.
The age that follows is the age of mankind. As I say, that's the short version.

lathspell · 10-12-2002, 04:24 PM

Quote:

The Ringbearers & the Elves are going to Valinor, the Undying Lands

Not quite. The Elves were going to Valinor and so was Gandalf, but the Ringbearers went to Tol Eresseä, an island before the Undying Lands. No mortal was allowed to set foot on Valinor, except one, Eärendil, but that's all part of the Silmarillion.

The second question is somewhat more difficult.
Gandalf is one of the five Istari, which are Maiar. When in Middle-earth the first signs appeared that Sauron reappeared the Valar took council together. They decided that a couple of Maiar should go to Middle-earth as emmisaries for the Valar. The Maiar were to be going in form of mortals or immortals, which would make them weaker for they could in this way hunger, parch or be slain. Also they were to use their full power against Sauron. They could not fight Sauron's force by their own force, neither were they allowed to rule men or other races by power or fear. They were to reunite the races of M-e by puting hope in their harts and giving council.
That's why Gandalf never used his full power, he just wasn't allowed to use it.

Try find the Silmarillion, many of your questions will be answered when you've read it [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

hope this will do for the time,
greetings,
lathspell

elfling · 10-12-2002, 08:10 PM

Wow, thanks guys. This wasn't my question but when I saw it I had to see. I will read the LoTR trilogy (this is only my second time reading it)alittle faster to get to The Silmarillion now. I just bought it.

ilon · 10-14-2002, 04:46 AM

Thank you all for the replies. I never knew those answers would be found in Silmarillion. Still looking for the book, Elfling is one lucky earthling.

[ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: ilon ]

ilon · 10-14-2002, 05:00 AM

So, the last age was the age of mankind, and the race of elvens and dwarves "converged" with the humans?

Selmo · 10-14-2002, 06:43 AM

Elves and Dwarves would not "converge" with humans.

Most of the elves would eventually sail off into the West. The few that remained behind would become a hidden people until, in the end, they just faded away.

The dwarves would slowly disapear because of their very low birth-rate.

ilon · 10-14-2002, 07:17 AM

What about the orcs, were they slowly eliminated by the humans?
I think made an effort to relate TLOTR to our true world, the humans currently dominating the earth but we would hear unexplainable stories of elves, dwarves, fairies sometimes, if somebody ever did, oh yeah when I was a kid.

GildorInglorion · 10-17-2002, 06:32 PM

Yeah, there are a few left, hidden, scared...

About the orcs I don't know. They seem to need some kind of dark leader to increase in numbers.

But I don't think that humans systemathically search all deep places of the earth to kill the last orchs. I have started a topic "Possibility of war in the fourth age" in the "the books" section. Hope some ideas pop up there.

10-12-2002, 04:08 AM	#1
ilon Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lothlorien Posts: 33	The Last Age Why did Gandalf and company sailed out to sea, i don't remember the island they're going to and little is said about it in the book, at the last part of the trilogy? And why was Gandalf hesitant to use his powers at that age (i think it was the end of the third age)? Do the last age signify the dominance of humans? __________________ "Not all those who wander are lost."

10-12-2002, 04:13 AM	#2
ilon Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lothlorien Posts: 33	Those questions lingered as i flipped the last pages of the trilogy. Though i'm still hoping the day i'll possess my own copy of the books and not borrow anymore (savin up), and stil hoping i'd stumble upon a copy of SILMARILLION. Borrow it if i still can't afforred to buy my own. __________________ "Not all those who wander are lost."

10-12-2002, 05:40 AM	#3
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,256	Hi, I know you'll get lots more informative & detailed answers than this, but, just to start. The Ringbearers & the Elves are going to Valinor, the Undying Lands, ruled by the Valar, kind of gods/Archangels, who rule the world under the authority of God, called by the elves Illuvatar . The Elves in the First age were invited to leave Middle Earth & live in Valinor. Some of them rebelled & left after a Melkor, the original Dark Lord, killed the Two Trees which gave Light to the world before the Sun & Moon, & stole the Silmarils, 3 jewels created by the elf Feanor, which he had made. The wars of the Elves against Melkor is the subject of the Silmarillion. So at the end of the Lord of the rings, you have the belves, including some of the ones., like Galadriel, who left thousands of years before, & thought they could never return, going back, as a reward for what they did in the war of the ring. Its kind of circular - at the begining, the Elves leave 'Paradise' - Valinor - come into Middle earth, fight wars & go through terrible sufferings, & then return home. The age that follows is the age of mankind. As I say, that's the short version. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

10-12-2002, 08:10 PM	#5
elfling Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: asheville,nc Posts: 86	Wow, thanks guys. This wasn't my question but when I saw it I had to see. I will read the LoTR trilogy (this is only my second time reading it)alittle faster to get to The Silmarillion now. I just bought it. __________________ And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night...All shall love me and despair!

10-14-2002, 04:46 AM	#6
ilon Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lothlorien Posts: 33	Thank you all for the replies. I never knew those answers would be found in Silmarillion. Still looking for the book, Elfling is one lucky earthling. [ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: ilon ] __________________ "Not all those who wander are lost."

10-14-2002, 05:00 AM	#7
ilon Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lothlorien Posts: 33	So, the last age was the age of mankind, and the race of elvens and dwarves "converged" with the humans? __________________ "Not all those who wander are lost."

10-14-2002, 06:43 AM	#8
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	Elves and Dwarves would not "converge" with humans. Most of the elves would eventually sail off into the West. The few that remained behind would become a hidden people until, in the end, they just faded away. The dwarves would slowly disapear because of their very low birth-rate.

10-14-2002, 07:17 AM	#9
ilon Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: lothlorien Posts: 33	What about the orcs, were they slowly eliminated by the humans? I think made an effort to relate TLOTR to our true world, the humans currently dominating the earth but we would hear unexplainable stories of elves, dwarves, fairies sometimes, if somebody ever did, oh yeah when I was a kid. __________________ "Not all those who wander are lost."

10-17-2002, 06:32 PM	#10
GildorInglorion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 48	Yeah, there are a few left, hidden, scared... About the orcs I don't know. They seem to need some kind of dark leader to increase in numbers. But I don't think that humans systemathically search all deep places of the earth to kill the last orchs. I have started a topic "Possibility of war in the fourth age" in the "the books" section. Hope some ideas pop up there. __________________ And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade