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Old 04-18-2005, 03:36 AM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril LotR -- Book 4 - Chapter 07 - Journey to the Cross-Roads

This is a chapter full of ominous foreboding, though nothing actually happens. Frodo, Sam and Gollum leave the brief haven of Henneth Annûn, speaking a few last words with Faramir and provided with the gift of walking sticks. Parting with him leaves them with a feeling of loss of light, and the darkness deepens throughout the chapter, going from shade under the trees to night to a dark day. The hobbits experience a feeling of uneasiness, due mostly to Gollum’s air of secrecy. The oppressive stillness is shown by the fact that there is more description and narrative than conversation.

I noticed a few interesting details upon rereading this relatively short chapter; they may give us some ideas for discussion, and perhaps you have noticed others to add to the mix. One concerns Faramir – despite not having slept, he does not look weary. Is there a reason for that? It seems more like an Elven characteristic than a human one. There is also the matter of the walking sticks –
Quote:
…a virtue has been set upon them of finding and returning.
Who has the ability of imparting that kind of virtue? Does the wood itself have some special property? Do you think this virtue played a role in the ultimate success of their journey?

What do you make of Sam’s dream? It involves his garden, no surprise, but also his pipe – any significance to that? (No, I am not thinking in Freudian terms! )

Some things are told, yet not explained – what causes the rumbling they hear and feel? More Oliphaunts? Mount Doom? Drums?

At the very end of the chapter there is a glimpse of light that stands out in all this darkness – the stone king’s head, with its live crown. Yet the hope it gives (“They cannot conquer forever!” ) lasts only briefly before darkness returns. (This image seems to be etched into the readers’ imaginations, for it was one much discussed before the movie was released.)

Is this a chapter you read through quickly, impatiently, to get to the action later on? Do you savour the descriptions? What feeling do you get when you read it?
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:43 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar
This is a chapter full of ominous foreboding, though nothing actually happens.
This chapter is probably my least favourite in the entire LotR. Nothing actually happens. There's no really memorable blocks of dialogue, there's no real peril, and by this point in the story, I'm pretty much full of "travelling" passages.

This doesn't preclude the fact that there ARE good parts to the chapter. The hopeful image of the fallen king's head is one of the parts that really sticks with me.

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Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar
One concerns Faramir – despite not having slept, he does not look weary. Is there a reason for that? It seems more like an Elven characteristic than a human one.
Well, Faramir IS of slight Elven descent, via Finduilas (his mother) of Dol Amroth, and the Elven lineage was apparently still very clear in his uncle Imrahil. Maybe it's also a manifestation of his Numenorean heritage as well. I'm reminded, for some reason, of Denethor's sleeping in chainmail to keep himself fit.

Of course, it could just be that being a Ranger has given him a lot of practice at going without sleep, and he is sufficiently skilled to hide his fatigue when necessary. At times to inspire courage in his men, maybe. Or possibly so as not to show signs of weakness to his enemies, be they Gondorians or Orks. I can easily see a young Faramir pretending not to be tired so as to impress his father.
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Old 04-19-2005, 02:44 PM   #3
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Where to start? certainly it seems as if this is a ‘transitional’ chapter, merely intended to get the characters from Henneth Annun to the Mountains. CT points out that Tolkien added in an extra day in this chapter to bring the chronology into line with events on the other side of the Anduin, hence the slow build up of menace in this chapter, with the gradual darkening of the skies & the slow increase of the ‘darkness of Mordor’ spilling over the Mountains. Another example of serendipity.

Another thing he mentions is that the staffs given to the Hobbits by Faramir originally had heads like shepherd’s crooks. One wonders why Tolkien changed his mind about this - perhaps the religious symbolism of the Bishop’s Crozier seemed too blatant? As Esty has pointed out, the ‘virtue’ placed on the staffs is quite interesting - placed by whom? Does this mean the staffs are ‘magical’? Also, what is the significance, if any, of the fact that both Frodo & Sam will lose their staffs by the end of this volume, at the darkest, most desperate point in their story up to then? Is Tolkien using the loss (& in one case the breaking) of the staffs to emphasise the hopelessness of the Hobbits state at that point, implying that the virtue of the staffs may have failed, & that there may be no ‘finding’ or ‘returning’?

The most significant incident in this chapter for me used to be the moment at the Cross-roads, but now its something else. As many of you may know, I’m a member of the Tolkien Society, & I’ve been to their annual Oxonmoot weekend in September for the last three years. The culmination of the weekend is Enyalie (sp?), when we visit Tolkien & Edith’s grave. Every year there is a short reading from the book, & at my first visit to Tolkien’s final resting place it was the passage where Frodo & Sam said farewell to Faramir, so this chapter is far from insignificant to me - in fact, it is now one of the most significant in the whole book....

Faramir’s final farewell to Frodo & Sam struck me also this time -

Quote:
He embraced the hobbits then, after the manner of his people, stooping, and placing his hands upon their shoulders, and kissing their foreheads.
This is the way Frodo says his final farewell to Sam. This, it seems, is a Numenorean custom, perhaps, who knows, inherited from the Elves. Are we seeing at the end, in Frodo’s farewell, another sign of his growth into ‘Elvishness’?

Whatever, we do see Gollum’s growing malice surfacing:

Quote:
"Have they gone at last?" said Gollum. 'Nassty wicked Men! Smeagol's neck still hurts him, yes it does. Let's go!"
'Yes, let us go," said Frodo. "But if you can only speak ill of those who showed you mercy, keep silent!"
Always forgives, he does, yes, yes, even nice Master's little trickses. Oh yes, nice Master, nice Smeagol!"
Rereading this passage I’m struck by the sentence: 'Nice Master!" said Gollum. ‘’Smeagol was only joking. Tolkien tells us that Gollum is speaking even though he refers to himself by his old Hobbit name - is he telling us that the ‘two’ have now become ‘one’? Certainly, Smeagollum’s snide comment that he even forgives ‘Master’s little trickses’ shows us the exact opposite - he hasn’t forgiven ‘Master’ at all. Its interesting that neither Frodo nor Sam attempt to explain to Gollum why Frodo did what he did - did they feel that they would be wasting their breath, or was it more that they didn’t actually want him too close, that they didn’t actually want him ‘back’?

Something else caught my attention:

Quote:
Frodo shuddered as he looked again at the distant pinnacles now dwindling into night, and the sound of the water seemed cold and cruel: the voice of Morgulduin, the polluted stream that flowed from the Valley of the Wraiths.
Haven’t we been told that the voice & presence of Ulmo ran through all the waters of Middle-earth, even that water, of all the elements, retained an echo of the Music of the Ainur? For the ‘voice’ of Morgulduin to seem ‘cold & cruel’, taken along with Faramir’s warning not to drink from any stream that flows out of Imlad Morgul, seems to imply that we are dealing with a ‘pollution’ more potent, & more evil than merely toxic chemicals.... I couldn’t help being reminded of the river of Mirkwood in TH which brought loss of consciousness - loss of ‘self’...

Then we have Sam’s dream:

Quote:
‘Off hunting, I suppose," said Sam and yawned. It was his turn to sleep first, and he was soon deep in a dream. He thought he was back in the Bag End garden looking for something; but he had a heavy pack on his back, which made him stoop. It all seemed very weedy and rank somehow, and thorns
and bracken were invading the beds down near the bottom hedge.
'A job of work for me, I can see; but I'm so tired," he kept on saying. Presently he remembered what he was looking for. 'My pipe!" he said, and with that he woke up.
"Silly!" he said to himself, as he opened his eyes and wondered why he was lying down under the hedge. "It's in your pack all the time!" Then 385 he realized, first that the pipe might be in his pack but he had no leaf, and next that he was hundreds of miles from Bag End.
This is a deeply symbolic dream, & tells us something about the dreamer himself. This is no longer the old Sam, who in the house of Bombadil dreamt nothing at all while his companions, Frodo especially, dreamt deep..

The Garden is overgrown & rank, & is slowly being invaded by thorns & bracken - chaos is reasserting itself, the fragile work of ‘humans’, their struggle to keep the wild in check, is failing. Its interesting that he is looking for his pipe, symbolic of the comforts of home. The ‘garden’ is being absorbed back into unconscious nature, ‘Home’ will at this rate soon be no more....

Finally we encounter the statue of the King (which one?) at the cross-roads. Obviously the head, with it’s single eye, symbolises Sauron. Sauron is the new ‘king’. Yet its interesting that his ‘head’ stands on the body of another - perhaps a symbol of the effect of his power, & by extension the power of the Ring, which takes over the mind (the ‘head’) of the individual, & dominates them....Yet, though the ‘head’ is cast down it regains its crown. This moment for Frodo seems to be for him what Sam’s later glimpse of the single star will be for him - both of them are given an insight into the nature of reality (in Middle-earth at least) - there is high beauty which no Shadow can forever conquer. Yet the ‘light’ of that realisation is taken away almost instantly.

As for the Cross-roads, well, cross-roads have always been symbolic places. They are places of choice, places where decisions must be made. In a sense they aare also places ‘outside the world’ - suicides were often buried at Cross-roads, perhaps in the belief that the restless spirit would become confused by the multiple choices. However, I don’t think we can entirely dismiss the Christian symbolism of the Cross here. We have a ‘King’ whose body is broken, & on whose head is a ‘crown’ - not of thorns but of flowers. The King will come again. because, as Frodo says ‘They cannot conquer forever!’
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Old 04-20-2005, 07:56 AM   #4
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I was just thinking about the manner of the Hobbits' parting from Faramir, and how similar it was to partings from the Elves.

Certainly it is a lot different to the parting from Galadriel which is extremely elaborate. The earlier parting was almost ceremonial in tone, with gifts, song and even a communion or sacrament of sorts. Though Galadriel never makes the gesture of kissing anyone on the forehead. The parting from Faramir is simple as we might expect on the dangerous and wild edges of Mordor, yet it is also more intimate and has a touching air of finality about it. From here, there is little or no chance that the Hobbits will see another friendly face.

The departure from Rivendell is very sombre, in contrast to that from Lothlorien, yet again, it is quite different to the departure from Faramir. It is witnessed by many, and both Elrond and Bilbo make sure to offer words of wisdom and advice.

I noted how at every stopping off point the Hobbits seemed to acquire more gifts to help them on their way. Of course, many of these also help with the progress of the story, getting them out of tight spots and so on, but by the end, at Mount Doom, they have very few of these gifts left. The gifts do not burden them, it is the weight of the Ring which is the problem, whether literal or in the mind, and right at the end this is the one 'gift' which Frodo finds impossible to cast aside. He has help from all quarters both in terms of gifts and assistance, yet he throws all aside at that last moment as he cannot cast aside the Ring.
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:40 PM   #5
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I actually like this chapter simlpy because of the crossroads. Probably because it is another one of those unexpected things. You are surprised when Faramir enters the story but afterwards you think its over with surprises because it seems pretty straightforward. Frodo and Sam go through Mordor and the ring is destroyed. You also assume that things will get darker and darker. They do but before that Frodo and Sam arrive at the crossroads and they see that the King has a crown.
It is not just a crown. Its a crown of flowers.Flowers don't only symbolize happiness and good(vs. evil). They are alive opposed to many things that side with evil.The things that ally themselves with evil are often half dead or twisted. These flowers are of course neither of those things. They are also white which symbolizes purity and a new beginning. Thus it gives a message of hope to the reader. I also cherish this moment because it is the last somewhat peaceful minute that Frodo and Sam will share before going through the Morgul vale.
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:46 PM   #6
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Some very interesting thoughts here! Thanks for sharing them everyone.

Estelyn said

Quote:
Do you savour the descriptions? What feeling do you get when you read it?
Actually, this time around the following passage caught me for the first time.

Quote:
Looking out from the convert he (Sam) could see only a dun, shadowless world, fading into a featureless, colorless gloom. It felt stifling but not warm.
Isn’t this rather descriptive of Mordor itself, or rather what it represents. Without light (goodness) one cannot have shadow or contrast, and so would not truly recognize darkness as it’s opposite. The world would be only be shades of dun, or grey as we say today. Would something good be even seen in that featureless gloom that spilled out from the Unnamed land? I think perhaps it may help explain why Sauron would not think of anyone trying to destroy the Ring. He cannot see or comprehend such a selfless act.

On the other hand, this gloom does seem to effect Frodo and Sam, and again mention is made of Frodo sleeping, possibly dreaming but mentioning Gandalf once more.


Yes, Faramir appears to have little need of sleep! That does seem elven. Another section that stood out regarding Faramir was this one:

Quote:
Then he turned and without looking back he left them and went to his two guards that stood at a little distance away. They marveled to see with what speed these green clad men now moved, vanishing in the twinkling of an eye. The forest where Faramir had stood seemed empty and drear, as if a dream had passed.
Besides the fact that it is pretty impressive to have these guys melt away into the forest so quickly and quietly, it struck me as though Tolkien might have been talking a bit about the Faithful Numenoreans that Faramir seems to represent. Or perhaps he is speaking of us in this modern age looking back at heroic days gone by. Life is a bit emptier without that dream.

davem - You brought up some interesting food for thought. I had not noticed that Frodo said goodbye to Sam in the same way as Faramir. It would seem fitting for Frodo to do this before sailing west if it were indeed a Numenorean custom!

And I particularly enjoyed the all the thoughts on the crossroads and the king with his crown of flowers.

But as for Estelyn’s puzzler about the rumbling, I suspect it may have something to do with the neighbours kicking up there heels there in Minas Morgul!
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:42 PM   #7
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This chapter is probably my least favourite in the entire LotR. Nothing actually happens. There's no really memorable blocks of dialogue, there's no real peril, and by this point in the story, I'm pretty much full of "travelling" passages.
I must vehemently disagree with my former self! Whether it is because I am older and wiser (less in need of gaudy action than my teenaged self) or because my circumstances of reading are different, or because of some other factor, I cannot see why I would rate this chapter so low! It's an interesting demonstration of how taste can change.

Nor do I think this is a recent discovery. Though this thread has not been added to since 2005, the feeling that "wow, I actually really like 'Journey to the Crossroads'" is familiar--a discovery from some point in the intervening years. I think the key here is mood--this chapter is ripe with a sense of looming danger and brooding unease. The moment of lingering light on the head of the king is the crown jewel of this, but it has built since they parted ways with Faramir.

What strikes me now about this is the huge mystery of the darkening day. It's a fantastic image, both in the sense of been amazing and of belonging to Fantasy, and I don't think that I've ever fully appreciated it, as someone who first read the books young and just accepted what was there. It's a dramatic and powerful bit of psychological warfare on Sauron's part, showing his immense power and also daunting those who naturally thrive in sunlight. More so than in any past reading, I'm noting the connection in plotnhere between Frodo and Sam experiencing the darkness in Ithilien with everyone in Gondor experiencing the same darkness further west in Book V. It helps evoke the mental sense of Frodo and Sam sneaking in behind enemy lines, unnoticed in the war, but absolutely crucial.
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Old 10-20-2018, 10:05 PM   #8
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Interesting. I always had a liking for this chapter - it might not have been a favourite, but it left a full feeling. It's a rich chapter and I guess I like the flavour. I find most of the Gollum chapters unpleasant despite all the intricacies of relationships and philosophy (kudos to the author - Gollum had to be very real to be so repulsive); they are more of an unavoidable chore during cover to cover rereads. This chapter, as well as Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit, are the exceptions. Both have so much other warmth and flavour that even Stinker doesn't stick so much. I suppose Gollum has some interesting behaviour in both chapters too, so maybe that is another factor.

I guess we all have our least favourite chapters. But who knows what I'll think of the Gollum stuff in 10 years.
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