Eowyn and Wormtongue - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Silmarien · 01-27-2003, 08:35 PM

What did everyone think of Eowyn's scene with Wormtongue? I think it illustrated they're relationship pretty well. But I've only seen it once so far so what do the more experienced veiwers think?

HCIsland · 01-27-2003, 08:50 PM

I thought it worked well. There is definately something there in the books. I liked when Grima tries his words of poison on Eowyn that seem to be working for a bit until she storms out.Something I've always wondered though, who would ever hire an advisor by the name of Wormtongue? Not something that would look good on a resume in my opinion. H.C.

Pukel-Man · 01-27-2003, 09:07 PM

I thought the scene worked very well. It showed the deplorable nature of Grima, and Eowyn was clearly disgusted to be in the same room as him. This brings up another point however, if it plain for all to see that Wormtongue is corrupting the mind of Theoden, why didn't Wormtongue have an "accident" to end his relationship with Theoden?

Tar-Palantir · 01-27-2003, 11:52 PM

I believe that Wormtongue used his wily ways on many members of the court for personal safety issues or otherwise, not just Theoden. And indeed, if he could have such an impact on Eowyn other lesser minds would be in peril.

Frodo Baggins · 01-30-2003, 12:19 PM

Well..... Are we sure our dear Grima was always that way? What am I trying to say? Gandalf said " Once it [Grima] was a man and did you service in its fashion." Now, that rings of a day when there was no treachery in this one. I have the feeling that Theoden had Grima had known each other for quite a while. I mean, I would have to know someone really well to trust them with my sword. I'm not getting anywhere am I? What I'm trying to say is, Grima may have once been a somewhat honest, slightly upright man. Actually, I think he had the problem many (including me) have, saying no. No to temptation. And as for Eowyn, I sum it up this way, he loved her not too wisely but too well. When you want something so bad you can almost tase it and will di anything to get it. Anything.[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Frodo Baggins ]

HCIsland · 01-30-2003, 01:15 PM

I think you're close to the money there Frodo. It seems a recuring theme that the forces of Sauron get to an individual through their desires and Wormtongue's desire for Eowyn might have been Saruman's ticket. I agree entirely that he wasn't a scum bag all his life and that his infatuation with Eowyn had roots that were more pure. This infatuation turned into his fatal flaw.Speaking of Wormtongue, I really liked the tear they had going down his cheek when he saw the armies of Isengard. Although he certainly was working to see Saruman in command of Rohan with himself as his right (or is that left) hand man with Eowyn at his side. I don't think he really had any glimps of Saruman's "vision" though until that moment.I also think this is to set up Wormtongue's rage and Saruman's fate in RoTK.H.C.

maikafanawen · 01-30-2003, 05:17 PM

That was one of the best lines in the movie when Grima was talking to Eowyn in Theodred's bedroom. Mm-mmm. spooky! And when Eowyn said "Your words are poison!" And ran out, I definitely shivered. I thought I sensed something of the sort in the book, but wasn't exactly sure. I'm v glad they put that detail in the movie. V glad!

Silmarien · 01-30-2003, 06:39 PM

Thanks for all the replies. This the first time I've stated a thread so it was great to get replies so quickly.One of the best bits of the scene I thought was when Wormtongue says "who knows what you said in the watches of the night, when all your world seemed to be shrinking" witch is straight from the books (except I think Gandalf says it). I was just so glad they kept Eowyn so close to the books.And HCIsland his name was Grima no-one called him Wormtongue in the prescence of th King. Just everywhere else. But you're right it wouldn't look good on a resume.

Frodo Baggins · 01-31-2003, 07:52 AM

Not too wisely, but to well.Why thank you HC! *blushes* (I like your avatar BTW) Yes, the tear, part of the reason I saw TTT the second time was for that one jewel. Also, Silmarien, (ha! I just realised where you name comes from, I'm rather slow sometimes) you can observe that Theoden was the only one NOT going around using the infamous name Wormtongue. And you are right, no one used that term in the presence of the king. Gandalf was probably the first one to use that name in front of the king. But then he's Gandalf, he's allowed [ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Frodo Baggins ]

Carrûn · 01-31-2003, 09:48 AM

Hama used the name Wormtounge in the movie but I believe in the books very few besides Gandalf (if any) used that name for Grima in public. Gandalf also called him lots of other things . I wish they could have shown a bit more of Gandalf's temper in the movie, the added scene in the Extended FOTR where he threatens to bang Pippin's head against the door is a nice touch.

01-27-2003, 08:35 PM	#1
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	Eowyn and Wormtongue What did everyone think of Eowyn's scene with Wormtongue? I think it illustrated they're relationship pretty well. But I've only seen it once so far so what do the more experienced veiwers think? __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

01-27-2003, 08:50 PM	#2
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I thought it worked well. There is definately something there in the books. I liked when Grima tries his words of poison on Eowyn that seem to be working for a bit until she storms out.<P>Something I've always wondered though, who would ever hire an advisor by the name of Wormtongue? Not something that would look good on a resume in my opinion. <P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-27-2003, 09:07 PM	#3
Pukel-Man Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona, -East of Dunharrow Posts: 54	I thought the scene worked very well. It showed the deplorable nature of Grima, and Eowyn was clearly disgusted to be in the same room as him. This brings up another point however, if it plain for all to see that Wormtongue is corrupting the mind of Theoden, why didn't Wormtongue have an "accident" to end his relationship with Theoden? __________________ This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish... And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock!-Mayor Vaughn

01-27-2003, 11:52 PM	#4
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	I believe that Wormtongue used his wily ways on many members of the court for personal safety issues or otherwise, not just Theoden. And indeed, if he could have such an impact on Eowyn other lesser minds would be in peril. __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

01-30-2003, 12:19 PM	#5
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Well.....<P> Are we sure our dear Grima was always that way? What am I trying to say? Gandalf said " Once it [Grima] was a man and did you service in its fashion." Now, that rings of a day when there was no treachery in this one. I have the feeling that Theoden had Grima had known each other for quite a while. I mean, I would have to know someone really well to trust them with my sword. I'm not getting anywhere am I? What I'm trying to say is, Grima may have once been a somewhat honest, slightly upright man. Actually, I think he had the problem many (including me) have, saying no. No to temptation. And as for Eowyn, I sum it up this way, he loved her not too wisely but too well. When you want something so bad you can almost tase it and will di anything to get it. Anything.<p>[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Frodo Baggins ] __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

01-30-2003, 01:15 PM	#6
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I think you're close to the money there Frodo. It seems a recuring theme that the forces of Sauron get to an individual through their desires and Wormtongue's desire for Eowyn might have been Saruman's ticket. I agree entirely that he wasn't a scum bag all his life and that his infatuation with Eowyn had roots that were more pure. This infatuation turned into his fatal flaw.<P>Speaking of Wormtongue, I really liked the tear they had going down his cheek when he saw the armies of Isengard. Although he certainly was working to see Saruman in command of Rohan with himself as his right (or is that left) hand man with Eowyn at his side. I don't think he really had any glimps of Saruman's "vision" though until that moment.<P>I also think this is to set up Wormtongue's rage and Saruman's fate in RoTK.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

01-30-2003, 05:17 PM	#7
maikafanawen Tears of Simbelmynë Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Beast's Castle Posts: 705	That was one of the best lines in the movie when Grima was talking to Eowyn in Theodred's bedroom. Mm-mmm. spooky! And when Eowyn said "Your words are poison!" And ran out, I definitely shivered. I thought I sensed something of the sort in the book, but wasn't exactly sure. I'm v glad they put that detail in the movie. V glad! __________________ "They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say, 'Sht, it's raining!'" -- Ruby, Cold Mountain*

01-30-2003, 06:39 PM	#8
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	Thanks for all the replies. <BR>This the first time I've stated a thread so it was great to get replies so quickly.<P>One of the best bits of the scene I thought was when Wormtongue says "who knows what you said in the watches of the night, when all your world seemed to be shrinking" witch is straight from the books (except I think Gandalf says it). I was just so glad they kept Eowyn so close to the books.<P>And HCIsland his name was Grima no-one called him Wormtongue in the prescence of th King. Just everywhere else. But you're right it wouldn't look good on a resume. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

01-31-2003, 07:52 AM	#9
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Not too wisely, but to well.<P>Why thank you HC! blushes (I like your <BR>avatar BTW) Yes, the tear, part of the reason I saw TTT the second time was for that one jewel. <P> Also, Silmarien, (ha! I just realised where you name comes from, I'm rather slow sometimes) you can observe that Theoden was the only one NOT going around using the infamous name Wormtongue. And you are right, no one used that term in the presence of the king. Gandalf was probably the first one to use that name in front of the king.<BR>But then he's Gandalf, he's allowed <p>[ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Frodo Baggins ] __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

01-31-2003, 09:48 AM	#10
Carrûn Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you, counting to 3 Posts: 234	Hama used the name Wormtounge in the movie but I believe in the books very few besides Gandalf (if any) used that name for Grima in public. Gandalf also called him lots of other things . I wish they could have shown a bit more of Gandalf's temper in the movie, the added scene in the Extended FOTR where he threatens to bang Pippin's head against the door is a nice touch. __________________ "Dic, hospes, Spartae, nos te hic vidisse iacentes dum sanctis patriae legibus obsequimur."