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Old 01-03-2004, 05:33 PM   #1
Lost One
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Sting Most missed absentees

By which I don't really mean missing favorite characters (there are plenty of 'I love Glorfindel' threads), so much as ones whose absence had an additional resonance. My candidates are the Gondorians - Imrahil, Beregond, Bergil, Ioreth and the others. In Rohan we saw, or at least name-checked, nearly everyone (Theodred, Gamling, Hama, Grimbold, plus completely new characters like 'Haleth' and his family). Yet in Gondor, we only met the House of Stewards. Someone got one line who might be Imrahil and another did who might be Beregond, so there is a chance the EE will remedy this, but so far Minas Tirith was lacking the sense of depth and human interest Rohan had. It also seemed a bit bad that Aragorn and his mates were planning to lead Gondorian forces to war with no actual representatives of the land there to agree - without an Imrahil, they should have shown Faramir on a stretcher or something.<P>Halbarad is another I miss, again not because of his vibrant personality, but bcause of the whole idea of Aragorn's people, the Rangers of the North, but he and they would be less easy to casually include than the Gondor supporting cast.
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Old 01-03-2004, 06:46 PM   #2
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I guess i missed the rangers most. <BR>It kinda shows that Aragorn is not alone. In the movie he seems to be the only Dunadain left in Middle earth.<BR>I also missed Ioreth but maybe if the houses of healing are in the EE she might be briefly seen as well. That is what I am hoping for.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:20 AM   #3
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Yes, the Dunadain were sorely missed. <P>Also, this does not quite count as an absentee, because technically she was in the movie, but I must say I missed Shelob. In the books Shelob is a character, with history and lineage. Motives and Pride. We see some of Sam's struggle with her from her point of view. In the movie, she is not as much a character, as an obsticle. I think her name is mentioned once by the orcs, but we don't get that same sense of fear out of them as in the books. No "her lady-ship" or "her lady-ship's sneak" . And because her character is not built up, we have no worried orcs, wondering who on earth could have stuck a pin in Shelob, and miss out on one of the best parts in the book.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:31 AM   #4
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I really missed not having an Imrahil and Elladan and Elrohir as well as Glorfindel.<P>Although I think out of all of them, Imrahil gives more to the story of Return of the King.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:47 AM   #5
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Concerning Shelob, well, the story was really more put from the hobbit point of view and how would they have ever gotten the information and the audience deserved to find out her identy so i thought the way it was done was fine. However, yes i agree that the orcs should have been a bit more timid, considering she was right there not five minutes ago.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:53 AM   #6
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I know that there really isn't a way to develope Shelob on screen in the same way as she was in the book, but I have the right to be illogical if I want to be...
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:37 AM   #7
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I missed Bergil a lot. I liked his character in the books, telling Pippin that he could probably beat him up and all that. I liked Beregond as well, because of his complete devotion to Faramir. I'd kind of like to see Ioreth in the extended DVD, if they do the Houses of Healing (which they'd *better*!)
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Old 01-04-2004, 06:07 AM   #8
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Imrahil is one of my favourite characters of all, so naturally I miss him.<P>Beregond... there was an actor named Ian Hughes listed as playing him. Last time I saw Rotk, I noticed Ian Hughes. He's listed on Imdb as playing Irolas. He's the guy with blonde hair, and right now the only place I can remember seeing him is when he talks to Denethor in the courtyard, after Faramir is brought in on a stretcher.<P>And of course I miss Bergil. I don't miss Ioreth, but I think she's in the Ext. Edition.<P>I know she isn't relevant to the story, but Lothiriel is one of my favourite characters, and it would be nice to see a glimpse of her. Not necessarily next to Eomer (like Fara and Eowyn at the coronation), unless they did actually marry that soon. If they included Imrahil, they could just pop her next to him at the coronation.<P>And Halbarad seems like quite a nice fellow, so he should have been included.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:15 PM   #9
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Of course some characters had to be mercilessly cut down, but I think Beregond would really have added to the film.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:56 PM   #10
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It is not really a character I miss but I really wanted to see the confortation between Galadriel and Saurman. I know it was nothing major in the books but I just loved that part for it showed how powerful the elves truely were when Saurman was a afraid of the 'elf witch'and complaining that she has always hated him.<P>Also I know he wasn't supposed have as large of a part that he did for he was only in the first book but I kind of miss Haldir. I wish he wouldn't have died and than maybe would have appeared at the crowning.
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Old 01-04-2004, 02:57 PM   #11
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Imrahil is a clear mistake to eliminate it Jackson is trying to be close to the books (which we know he isn't, stupid Lorien elves at Helms Deep). The War of the Ring is the fading of the elder peoples, dwarves and elves and the beginning of the rule of men. In FotR and TTT Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas are the three main fighters. But read carefully and you'll notice that Gimli and Legolas mean almost nothing in RotK. They are instead replaced with Eomer of Rohan (who also got the shaft) and, ta da, Prince Imrahil in the abscence of a wounded Faramir. After I saw Haldir at Helms Deep I knew there was no hope for one of my favorite characters but it's still sad to see no Imrahil, or Forlong the Fat for that matter . But if I might add something that has not yet been discussed on this thread anyway, Ghan-buri-ghan was credited on Imdb and I demand to see what this guy looked like. Come on he's a classic literary character, well maybe not but I still missed it. Also the Mouth of Sauron was a huge blow to my heart but I'm holding my breath for an EE scene. Notice Pippin rode up to the gate with Aragorn and company after calling out Sauron. I'm giddy with anticipation and all I have to do is wait another ten months
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:48 AM   #12
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I read through Rotk yesterday, and I was reminded that Cirdan dwelt at the Grey Havens and was there at the end to see everyone off. It would have been nice to see him in the films. I know there was an elven extra at the Havens, but I'm not sure if that was meant to be him, or just an escort.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:00 PM   #13
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I really missed Beregornd and Bergil. Also, I miss the Wild Man that advised them . . . I think his name was Gorgul? I forgot who he advised, though. I just remember that he was advising the side <I>against</I> Saruman and that he was amusing somehow . . .
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:54 PM   #14
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<B>Ack! So Many!!</B><P>Farmer Maggot! A fine old hobbit. And of course his mate, Bombadil. The Barrow-Wight!<P>Glorfindel I can live without, because I'm sure I'm better off with the picture in my head than anything PJ could have produced for Glorfindel. The description of his appearance given by Gandalf is just sublime, and I don't think <B>Figwit</B> riding to the rescue would really have done it justice.<P><B>Imrahil</B> is probably my most missed character. He's just the man. I would have loved to see him and the swan knights of Dol Amroth, even slightly more than the Dnedain. It seems as if movieAragorn is the only one left! PJ only knows what they were doing at the time of the War of the Ring. Chasing lost ferrets in the Prancing Pony, maybe. I dearly would love to see Elladan and Elrohir, as well, but again I don't think they would be shown well enough. The last thing we need is <B>three</B> skater elves!
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Old 01-05-2004, 04:38 PM   #15
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Meela - Cirdan was there. If you look carefully in the last scene, there is a red-robed, bearded elf behind Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn. I missed him first time, but a poster on this board mentioned him, so I looked hard on a second viewing. Whether he'll get a line or name-check in the EE is another matter, but credit to PJ for the little nod.
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:26 PM   #16
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Did that elf go on board the ship?
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:29 PM   #17
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I started a thread about the Pukel-men earlier, but I really missed seeing Ghan-buri-Ghan and the Druadan forest.<BR>I always got a kick out of the book when he makes a gurgling noise that is compared to a laugh and he sniffs the air and notices the change in the wind. <BR>Which reminds me, Sauron's darkness, in the books, seemed to have its own personification, especailly in it's own fight with the sea-tanged wind from the West, and I wish PJ would have used it a little more. There are definitely allusions to it, but it doesn't have the strength of character that it does in the books.
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:51 PM   #18
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I also missed Ghan-Buri-Ghan. <BR>I love the part with the wildmen because it is so unexpectant. The rohirrim are so close but their way is blocked and you lose a little hope, when suddenly, Tad-dah! There are the Wildmen to help out.<BR>Too bad it didn't make the movie.
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:47 PM   #19
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Imrahil & the Rangers I missed badly. I also missed the Wizard Confrontation, but perhaps that's getting to big?
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:41 PM   #20
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I've not read the books in some while, but I probably have read them through 3 total times, the last being after the theater release of The Fellowship. Other than Glorfindel and Farmer Maggot (tough name to forget), I don't recognize any other name you folks have been throwing out. I guess my point is...a character's importance to the story may be suspect when someone who has read the books several times can't conjure up their names in memory. My memory isn't the best, but it isn't the worst either. People who haven't read the books didn't miss a beat with the omissions, and they probably make up the bulk of the masses watching the films.<P>I loved ROTK, but boy did it look hurried. My own belief is that 3 movies simply cannot capture 3 books, especially books that were greatly dependent on thousands of years of Middle-Earth history. Thus, <I>drastic</I> cuts had to be made, especially with marginal characters that, at best, augmented the storyline.
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:45 PM   #21
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Forlong the Fat. I didn't see one fat Gondorian in the whole siege, for that matter. <P>BTW - Anyone spot P.J.?
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Old 01-06-2004, 12:37 AM   #22
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No Gaffer to scold Frodo for "trapessing in foreign parts, chasing Black Men up mountains from what my Sam says, though what for he don't make clear..."<P>What an oversight!
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Old 01-06-2004, 12:42 AM   #23
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Especially the part about chasing black men up mountains.
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Old 01-06-2004, 01:30 AM   #24
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The Gaffer's <B>way</B> better than some <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002617" TARGET=_blank>dumb symbolic pumpkin</A>.
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Old 01-06-2004, 08:30 AM   #25
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i saw PJ i nteh second one, as a Dunlending
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Old 01-06-2004, 10:17 AM   #26
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It would have been nice to see some of these mentioned characters in the movie but most don't have such a big role.That isn't to mean they wouldn't have been nice to be included. I would have loved to see Ghan-buri-Ghan, the Mouth of Sauron (a shocking absence for me),Cirdan ( in a real way,that is, fullscreen),the Gaffer,Radagast,Quickbeam or the squint-eyed Southerling. Saruman should have been in RotK of course.
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Old 01-06-2004, 11:57 AM   #27
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Maybe the Gaffer was <I>turned into</I> a pumpkin by Sharkey and <I>that</I> was the secret homage to the Scouring of the Shire!<P>!!!<P>Actually, how can you really count the Gaffer as an absentee, when he was in FotR and Sam mentions him in TTT and RotK?
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Old 01-06-2004, 12:08 PM   #28
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Beregond and Bergil.<P>Elladan and Elrohir, and the Rangers.<P>The Mouth of Sauron. Especially him. I mean, I really, *really* hate that guy; I wanted him to be in the theatrical version so I could chuck popcorn at him. <P>I know this isn't technically a character, but I would have liked to see Denethor's palantir. I like him more when it doesn't seem like it's his fault he's insane...<P>And what about those two orcs Frodo and Sam see on their way across Mordor? I liked those orcs!<P>Abedithon le,<P>~*~Aranel~*~
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:52 AM   #29
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<B>Diamond</B>, I guess the Gaffer <I>is</I> sort of like a pumpkin -- hard and bumpy on the outside, but mushy inside. Sort of. Metaphorically I mean. If you use your imagination. <P>Book Gaffer is most certainly an absentee. He steals the show in virtually every scene in which he appears in the Books. The tame movie Gaffer -- who appears only in the EE, IIRC -- is no comparison, indeed, is an abomination if you consider the source material they had to work with! <P>I would like to have seen him tell off Khaml at Bag End ("Why? Why's none of my business, or yours."), and all of his best lines are conspicuously missing (whereas recurring dwarf-tossing jokes made the cut - egad). <P>And what about the Widow Rumble? The Gaffer may have been an old salt, but he still had a few moves left in him, by gawd!
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:56 AM   #30
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Elladan and Elrohir, while stripped to the bone can't entirely be counted as being missing. I would have loved to see them come down and carry Rivendell's banner at the black gate but at least they recieve a cameo. At the Council of Elrond there are two elves sitting on either side of Elrond elevated throne-like as he is. I take it those were his two sons. It's a shame that they aren't more important but they do find their way in.
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Old 01-07-2004, 10:10 AM   #31
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Fatty bolger and Farmer Maggott would've been nice to see and of course Tom Bombadil giving Old man Willow a ticking off! <BR>And how about a few Woses for good luck?!<BR> <p>[ 11:14 AM January 07, 2004: Message edited by: Fosco Burrows ]
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Old 01-07-2004, 05:10 PM   #32
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Maybe the Gaffer was turned into a pumpkin by Sharkey and that was the secret homage to the Scouring of the Shire!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's possible . Hey, you have to admit we have no idea where Saruman is or what he's doing in RotK .
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Old 01-07-2004, 10:58 PM   #33
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Book Gaffer is most certainly an absentee. He steals the show in virtually every scene in which he appears in the Books. The tame movie Gaffer -- who appears only in the EE, IIRC -- is no comparison, indeed, is an abomination if you consider the source material they had to work with!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A goodly point. Therefore, (after much thought about various characters, no short process!) I hereby name <B>Faramir</B> as my most missed absentee.
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