Elven female warriors

[Vanya]

Reading Tolkien, and I read Lotr, Sil, UT, I had impression that female Elves didn't take much action in battles . Other than Galadriel, who along with Celeborn, led the attack on Dol Guldur ( and I belive , did fight, not only wached from safe distance), and Aredela, Turgon's sister, who was described as very independant, brave, skillfull in horseriding and hunting, there are not many stories about female warriors. Luthien was brave, but used singing and magic. Somehow, when there is talk about Elven army, it always seems that it was male army.
Of course, it's normal that most of elven wifes stayed home and took care of children, but certanly there could have been large number of young females that wanted to join the army, and earn glory and place in poems. They had the skills, I'm sure.
But, I didn't read HoME, maybe there are some stories there?
What do you think about it?

[Fingolfin II]

I agree with you Vanya; there appears to be a sort of stereotype about women in the Sil and Lotr. Two female "fighters" I know of are mortal- Morwen (not really a fighter) and Haleth.

[Lalaith]

You're right Vanya, the tradition of female warriors seems to have been found among mortals rather than elves, at least as far as the Silmarillion tells us.
Actually it wasn't just Haleth, among the Haladrim it was a general custom for women to fight.
Morwen did not fight, but her female relative, Beren's mother, Emeldir the man-hearted, did.
As for elfwomen - in UT, Galadriel fought to defend Alqualonde, and in many versions of the Fall of Gondolin, Idril Celebrindal donned armour and fought.
But that's about it.
However, Tolkien also has the following to say in Morgoth's Ring:

There are, however, no matters which among the Eldar only a ner [male] can think or do, or others with which only a nis [female] is concerned.

Also:

Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi [females] fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals.

Howeve, he seems to be specific about mothers not fighting, and that healers of either sex should not go to war.

Actually your question has set me wondering about how elven women did pass the time. Not on childcare - they lived for thousands of years, most of them only had a couple of kids in that time, and they, says Tolkien " needed little governing or teaching. "
So what were they doing? Weaving? Playing on dulcimers? Having pedicures?

[Elianna]

Also, if memory serves from Morgoth's Ring, the women were usually the healers and the elves feared that if women fought, they would loose their healing abilities.

As to what they were doing:
There's a whole stinkin' lot to do on the home-front while the boys are fighting, making weapons and food and other supplies. Also we're told what Arwen did when Aragorn was off fighting for her hand: she wove him the flag, and "watched over him in thought."

[Vanya]

Thank you for your answers, Lalaith and Elianna. I think that mortal women ceep better score ( we forgot Eowyn) in stories told, at least. maybe, if Professor lived few more years, he could have given us some great stories about Elven warriors.
Conserning the other issue, how did they spent their time, I can add another one. How did the organisation of their householdes looked like (did the noble families had elven servants) ? Did they have casts?Did they had professions (except healing)? Man were blacksmits, gardians, minstrels, artists, soldiers. Were they payed for their work, or it funcioned as a commune of sort?
A lot of questions, no?

[Lalaith]

Here's a thread that may answer some of your questions, or at least whet your speculative appetite...
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=815

[Vanya]

Nice disscusion! I belive that they had classes, defined by birth, and relation with Finwe, Olwe and Eonwe. But also, except for the "royalty", the rest had to do all the work, but I think they did it with joy and grace, without getting payed, but for community benefit.
And now back to subject!
I think Elven woman were both strong and gentle in the same time. They survived Helcaraxe, plenty of battles led in their homes (Gondolin. Nargotrond...)They had to grab a sword if it was neccessary. I belive they were fascinating in those moments, and I'm very sorry there are not some specific stories, other then general ones (like those quotes from Morgot's ring). The Eowyn story is great; immagine what would be like to read about some Elven princess from the First Age?

[Lalaith]

I believe you will get your wish, Vanya, if you read the Fall of Gondolin in the Lost Tales, Vol 2. There's an account of Idril Celebrindal in hand-to-hand combat with Maeglin. (She was fighting to save her child, Earendil, whom Maeglin intended to throw into the flames.)
This was, interestingly, one of the very earliest of Tolkien's works, written in around 1916.

Edit: It's a long time since I read LT and I only have Vol 1 to hand. I apologise, particularly to our splendid New Silmarillion scholars, if I've got anything wrong.

[Vanya]

To Lalath: I delayed reading HoME (LT as well) since it's not translated in Serbian. I find it difficult to read Tolkien in english, espetially Sil and UT ( I tried but I couldn't dive into it, when I had to consult the dictionary).
Maybe I'll try that particular story.

[Knight of Gondor]

I should hardly think less of the elves if they did not wish women to fight! Back in the medieval times, it was a great honor to defend realm, house and family.

I would assume that, contrary to modern day times, the women did not WANT to fight. These days, they want to, if for no other reason than to prove they're as good. The Elves/Men in Middle-Earth did not chose to fight, they had to. Why would the very people they protect join in the fight?

[Elianna]

A good point Knight of Gondor, about maybe women not wanting to fight. I seriously think that a whole stinkin' lot less wars would be fought if we had to go chop up each other with swords and arrows to win.

[Saraphim]

I agree with your remark, Elianna, that war is alot less personal than it used to be, and that people might think twice about fighting if it meant picking up a sword or bow.

Anyway, back to the subject.

I enjoyed reading Morgoth's Ring immensly because of the insight it gave me as to how the elves lived on a day-to-day basis. I was impressed to see that Tolkien gave the elven women the same status as the male elves.

I suppose my comment is that not all the elves fought, including many elven women. Many elven males did not take up weapons either.

Hmmm. I just had a thought. Perhaps the males were trained to be offensive warriors, while the women were trained to be defensive; to protect the homes or fortresses if ever they were attacked.

But that's just speculation on my part.

[Bêthberry]

I should hardly think less of the elves if they did not wish women to fight! Back in the medieval times, it was a great honor to defend realm, house and family.

Actually, Knight of Gondor, back in medieval times, women followed the armies. That is one reason why Joan of Arc had such a difficult time being accepted as a military leader.

[Silmiel of Imladris]

I don't know much about most of the stories you guys are refering too, but I feel that elf women did more on the magical front than actual fighting. Galadriel was the most powerful but there were probably others who could do many of the same things on a smaller scale. Besides elves as a whole hate wars, many of the men probably didn't fight either.

[Snowdog]

The role of Elven women are more behind the scenes. Galadriel used her ring power more than physical ability in battle I am sure.

Maybe you neeed to read some Xena comics to find what you seek, not Tolkien.

[Olorin_TLA]

When Tolkien was writing about Elven genders and jobs, (In HoMe X I think) it would seem that Elven women would fight too. Maybe not as many, but they would. Galadriel went to Dol Guldur and threw down its walls. She was also mentioned as refraining formentering the kinslaying, meaning the other women there must have taken part (in they hadn't then surely the women of the Host of Feanor would have been on good terms with the Sindar).
Lúthien not only battles monsters, she saves Beren quite a few times. Yes, she uses her wits to doso, but frankly when faced witht he enemies she fought anyone who just went for a straight-out fight would have died.

The folk of Haleth were an Amazon culture (women were the main source of their warroirs). And the female Valar fought Morgoth and his servants.

So in short, Xena-Schmena.