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Old 06-18-2018, 12:49 AM   #1
ArcusCalion
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Silmaril The Return of the Shadow

This is the first draft of the chapter The Return of the Shadow.

This chapter is a thoroughly mixed bag of sources, and so there is no base text. Because of this, I have marked every instance of any text used, so as to be easy to follow.

The markings are:
FY-HL-xx for all the headlines for the Fading Years.
RS-SL-xx for all expansions and changes to the narrative.

Some conventions of my writing:

Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalized text, normally only used for general changes, as well as changes which are a part of replacement that is not grammatical.
Underlined Text = text changed for grammatical reasons in the process of combining and inserting and removing.
<source example> = additions with source information
...... = This section of the paragraph is unchanged from the source.

Quote:
FY-HL-04 < THE RETURN OF THE SHADOW>

RS-SL-01 <Of the Rings of Power (ORP) Only three of his people came ever back ..... these things might never come to pass.
Valandil took up his abode in Annúminas, ..... , and upon the Gladden Fields many had fallen.>
RS-SL-02 <Galadriel and Celeborn: Appendix B A long peace followed in which the numbers of the Silvan Elves grew again; but they were unquiet and anxious, feeling the change of the world ..... though he knew that it was now broken and deserted and under the vigilance of the Kings of Men, fear spoke in his heart that it was not conquered forever: it would arise again.>
RS-SL-03 <Galadriel and Celeborn: Appendix A Thranduil father of Legolas of the Nine Walkers was Sindarin, and that tongue was used in his house, though not by all his folk. In Lórien, where many of the people were Sindar in origin, or Noldor, survivors from Eregion, Sindarin had become the language of all the people. In what way their Sindarin differed from the forms of Beleriand RS-SL-04 {– see The Fellowship of the Ring II 6, where Frodo reports that the speech of the Silvan folk that they used among themselves was unlike that of the West –} is now of course not known. It probably differed in little more than what would now popularly called ‘accent:’ mainly differences of vowel-sounds and intonation sufficient to mislead one who RS-SL-05 {, as Frodo,} was not well acquainted with purer Sindarin. There may of course also have been some local words and other features ultimately due to the influence of the former Silvan tongue. Lórien had long been much isolated from the outside world. Certainly some names preserved from its past, such as Amroth and Nimrodel, cannot be fully explained from Sindarin, though fitting it in form. Caras seems to be an old word for a moated fortress, not found in Sindarin. RS-SL-06 {Lórien is probably an alteration of an older name now lost [though earlier the original Silvan or Nandorin name was stated to be Lórinand, see p.265, note 5].}>
RS-SL-07 <ORP In the south the realm of Gondor endured, and for a time .... and before that from Valinor in the Day before days when the world was young.>
RS-SL-08 <LotR Appendix A It was Ostoher the seventh king who rebuilt Minas Anor, where afterwards the kings dwelt in summer rather than in Osgiliath. In his time Gondor was first attacked by wild men out of the East. But Tarostar, his son, defeated them and drove them out, and took the name of Rómendacil 'East-victor'. He was, however, later slain in battle with fresh hordes of Easterlings. Turambar his son avenged him, and won much territory eastwards.
RS-SL-09 <Tradition of Isildur {Meneldil followed Isildur's counsel, and all the Kings that came after him, until Rómendacil I (the fifth after Meneldil).} In {his}Rómendacil’s time {Gondor was first assailed by Easterlings; and} lest the tradition should be broken because of war or sudden death or other misfortune, he caused the ‘Tradition of Isildur’ to be set down in a sealed scroll, together with other things that a new King should know; and this scroll was delivered by the Steward to the King before his crowning. [Footnote: It was also Rómendacil I who established the office of Steward (Arandur ‘king's servant’), but he was chosen by the King as a man of high trust and wisdom, usually advanced in years since he was not permitted to go to war or to leave the realm. He was never a member of the Royal House.] This delivery was from then onwards always performed, though the custom of visiting the hallow of Amon Anwar with his heir was maintained by nearly all the Kings of Gondor.>
With Tarannon, the twelfth king, began the line of the Ship-kings, who built navies and extended the sway of Gondor along the coasts west and south of the Mouths of Anduin. To commemorate his victories as Captain of the Hosts, Tarannon took the crown in the name of Falastur 'Lord of the Coasts'.>
RS-SL-10 <The Istari Note 7 {She}Queen Berúthiel was the nefarious, solitary, and loveless wife of Tarannon, {twelfth King of Gondor (Third Age 830-913) and first of the ‘Ship-kings’, who took the crown in the name of Falastur ‘Lord of the Coasts,’ and was} the first childless king {(The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A, I, ii and iv)}. Berúthiel lived in the King's House in Osgiliath, hating the sounds and smells of the sea and the house that Tarannon built below Pelargir upon arches whose feet stood deep in the wide waters of Ethir Anduin. She hated all making, all colors and elaborate adornment, wearing only black and silver and living in bare chambers, and the gardens of the house in Osgiliath were filled with tormented sculptures beneath cypresses and yews. She had nine black cats and one white, her slaves, with whom she conversed, or read their memories, setting them to discover all the dark secrets of Gondor, so that she knew those things that men wish most to keep hidden, setting the white cat to spy upon the black, and tormenting them. No man in Gondor dared touch them; all were afraid of them, and cursed when they saw them pass. RS-SL-11 {What follows is almost wholly illegible in the unique manuscript, except to the ending, which states that her}Her name was erased from the Book of the Kings, but the memory of men is not wholly shut in books, and the cats of Queen Berúthiel never passed wholly out of men's speech. {and that} King Tarannon had her set on a ship alone with her cats and set adrift on the sea before a north wind. The ship was last seen flying past Umbar under a sickle moon, with a cat at the masthead and another as a figure-head on the prow.>

RS-SL-12 <LotR Appendix A Eriador was of old the name of all the lands between the Misty Mountains and the Blue; in the South it was bounded by the Greyflood and the Glanduin that flows into it above Tharbad. RS-SL-13 <Galadriel and Celeborn: Appendix D Glanduin means ‘border-river.’ It was the name first given (in the Second Age), since the river was the southern boundary of Eregion, beyond which pre-Númenórean and generally unfriendly peoples lived, ...... plains of Minhiriath and Enedwaith. [Footnote: In the early days of the kingdoms the most expeditious route ..... It was called Lond Daer Enedh, the Great Middle Haven (as being between Lindon in the North and Pelargir on the Anduin). RS-SL-14 <Rivers and Beacon-Hills of Gondor (RBHG) It was the main entry for the Númenóreans in the War against Sauron (Second Age 1693-1701).>] A considerable garrison of soldiers, mariners and engineers had been kept there until the seventeenth century of the Third Age. But from then onwards the region fell quickly into decay; and long before the RS-SL-15 {time of The Lord of the Rings}end of the Third Age had gone back into wild fenlands. {When Boromir made his great journey from Gondor to Rivendell – the courage and hardihood required is not fully recognized in the narrative—the}The North-South Road no longer existed ..... if the river had not been there slow and shallow – but wide.
If the name Glanduin was remembered at all it would only be in Rivendell; .... If the river had any name it was in the language of the Dunlendings. RS-SL-16 {In The Return of the King VI it}It is called the Swanfleet river (not River), simply as being the river that went down into the Nin-in-Eilph, ‘the Waterlands of the Swans.’ [Footnote: Sindarin alph, a swan, plural eilph, Quenya alqua, as in Alqualondë. The Telerin branch of Eldarin shifted original kw to p (but original p remained unshifted). The much-changed Sindarin of Middle-earth turned the stops to spirants after l and r. Thus original alkwa became [i]alpa[i] in Telerin, and alf (transcribed alph) in Sindarin. RS-SL-17 <RBHG Glan: base √(G)LAN, ‘rim, edge, border, boundary, limit'. This is seen in Q. lanya verb ‘bound, enclose, separate from, mark the limit of; lanwa ‘within bounds, limited, finite, (well-)defined'; landa ‘a boundary'; lanë (lani-) ‘hem'; lantalca ‘boundary post or mark'; cf. also lanca ‘sharp edge (not of tools), sudden end', as e.g. a cliff-edge, or the clean edge of things made by hand or built, also used in transferred senses, as in cuivië-lancassë, literally ‘on the brink of life', of a perilous situation in which one is likely to fall into death.
It is debated whether gl- was an initial group in Common Eldarin or was a Telerin-Sindarin innovation (much extended in Sindarin). In this case, at any rate, the initial gl- is shared by Telerin and Sindarin and is found in all the derivatives in those languages (except in T. lanca, S. lane, the equivalents of Q. lanca): T. glana 'edge, rim'; glania- ‘to bound, limit'; glanna ‘limited, bounded'; glanda ‘a boundary': S. glân, ‘hem, border' (of textiles and other hand-made things), gland > glann ‘boundary'; glandagol ‘boundary mark'; gleina- ‘bound, enclose, limit'.>]>
RS-SL-18 <LotR Appendix A At its greatest Arnor included all Eriador, except the regions beyond the Lune, and the lands east of Greyflood and Loudwater, ...... dwelt with Círdan or in the seaward lands of Lindon. If any now remain they are few.>
RS-SL-19 <LotR Appendix A After Elendil and Isildur there were eight High Kings of Arnor. After Eärendur, RS-SL-20 <LotR Appendix A [Footnote: After Eärendur, the Kings no longer took names in the High-elven form.]> owing to dissensions among his sons ..... its bounds being the Brandywine, the Greyflood, and the Great Road.
In Arthedain the line of Isildur was maintained ..... Palantír of the North, and the other two were both in the keeping of Arthedain.>

RS-SL-21 <LotR Appendix A Eärnil I, RS-SL-22 {his} nephew of Falastur, who succeeded him, repaired the ancient haven of Pelargir, ...... came up with great power against that stronghold, and Ciryandil fell in battle in Haradwaith.
For many years Umbar was invested, .... Ciryaher then took the name of Hyarmendacil 'South-victor'.
The might of Hyarmendacil no enemy dared to contest ...... The realm then extended north to Celebrant and the southern eaves of RS-SL-23 {Mirkwood}[Greenwood the Great]; west to the Greyflood; ..... but was watched over by great fortresses that guarded the passes. So ended the line of the Ship-kings.>
RS-SL-24 <ORP Now of old {the name of that forest was Greenwood the Great, and its}the wide halls and aisles of Greenwood the Great were the haunt of many beasts and of birds of bright song; and there was the realm of King Thranduil under the oak and the beech. But after many years, when well-nigh a third of that age of the world had passed, a darkness crept slowly through the wood from the southward, and fear walked there in shadowy glades; fell beasts came hunting, and cruel and evil creatures laid there their snares.>
RS-SL-25 <Galadriel and Celeborn: Appendix B {when}When {a thousand years of the Third Age had passed and} the Shadow fell upon Greenwood the Great, the Silvan Elves ruled by Thranduil retreated before it as it spread ever northward, until at last Thranduil established his realm in the north-east of the forest and delved there a fortress and great halls underground. Oropher was of Sindarin origin, and no doubt Thranduil his son was following the example of King Thingol long before, in Doriath; though his halls were not to be compared with Menegroth. He had not the arts nor wealth nor the aid of the Dwarves; and compared with the Elves of Doriath his Silvan folk were rude and rustic.> RS-SL-26 <Galadriel and Celeborn: Appendix B Thranduil's realm {is said to have} extended into the woods surrounding the Lonely Mountain and was growing along the west shores of the Long Lake, before the coming of the Dwarves exiled from Moria and the invasion of the Dragon.>
RS-SL-27 <ORP Then the name of the forest was changed and Mirkwood it was called, ....... Sorcerer of Dol Guldur, and yet they knew not at first how great was their peril.>
RS-SL-28 <HoME 12: Tale of Years 4 About this time also the Periannath, of whom there are no earlier accounts among Elves or Men, are first mentioned in ancient tales. These were a strange small people, called by Men RS-SL-29 <per Note 15 (of whose kindred they were maybe a branch)> Halflings, but by themselves (later in the west of Eriador) Hobbits. They are thought to have long dwelt in Greenwood the Great or near its western eaves, and in the vale of the upper Anduin. But at this time they began to move westward over the Misty Mountains into Eriador. It is said that they moved from their earlier dwellings because Men increased much at that time; and because a shadow fell on Greenwood, and it became darkened, and was called Mirkwood, for an evil spirit stirred there. The Harfoots were the first clan of Hobbits to enter Eriador.> RS-SL-30 <HoME 12: TY4 The Fallohides, a clan of the Periannath, crossed into Eriador and came down from the North along the River Hoarwell. About the same time the Stoors, another clan, came over the Redhorn Pass and moved south towards Dunland.>
RS-SL-31 <ORP Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared ...... Of these Curunír was the eldest and came first, and after him came Mithrandir and Radagast. RS-SL-32 {, and}In the Second Age had come others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales. Radagast ..... dwelt at Orthanc in the Ring of Isengard, which the Númenóreans made in the days of their power.> RS-SL-33 <UT Istari Note 4 Rhosgobel, {called "} the old home of Radagast {" in The Fellowship of the Ring II 3}, is said to have been {"}in the forest between the Carrock and the Old Forest Road RS-SL-34 <The Hobbit near the southern borders of Mirkwood>.>
FY-HL-04: I struggled to find a good title for this chapter, but I finally settled on this one because the entire end of the chapter is concerned with the return of Sauron to the world in the form of the Necromancer, so this title seemed fitting. It comes from the rejected title for one of the books of Lord of the Rings.

RS-SL-01: We open right where the other chapter left off, with the escape of Ohtar and the sword. The account given in The Sources of the Legend of Isildur's Death is longer, but I felt it was out of place, being a somewhat scholarly document, as well as the fact that it references events in the late part of the Third Age and the beginning of the Fourth Age. This account in Of the Rings of Power is the best we have left.

RS-SL-02 and 03: These additions set the stage of Thranduil's isolation and his frame of mind. It sets the stage for our return to him at the end of the chapter when Sauron returns. We get to see some of his character, as well as the origin of his halls. We also talk a bit about the transformation of the Silvan speech, which I promised to Fin when we were editing the very first chapter of the Second Age.

RS-SL-04: A comment of Christopher Tolkien removed.

RS-SL-05: I removed this reference to Frodo, since in our draft of the narrative, he will never be mentioned once, and so this reference to him is severely out of place.

RS-SL-06: We have used the other origin of the name of Lorien (as we should, as it makes much greater linguistic and etymological sense, and is in line with what Treebeard says in Two Towers). I also removed CT's comment.

RS-SL-07: Here we transition from Thranduil to Gondor, and set the stage for its earliest kings. There is no narrative of Gondor's doings before the seventh king, so this paragraph from Of the Rings of Power helps to convey the passage of time, as well as set the stage for Gondor's growth.

RS-SL-08: Here we begin with the first bit of narrative on the kings of Gondor from Appendix A. This chapter uses Appendix A heavily, as I think can be seen to be necessary.

RS-SL-09: This is a bit from The Tradition of Isildur that belongs here chronologically, and since we have only just finished that previous chapter, it will still be fresh in the mind of the reader. I edited the opening to flow correctly. Afterwards we return to the Appendix A narrative and introduce Tarannon Falastur.

RS-SL-10: This is the story of Queen Beruthiel as given in the Note to the Istari. I removed the descriptions of Tarannon Falastur from the beginning, since we have just given them in the previous paragraph.

RS-SL-11: Editing to turn CT's description into a narrative.

RS-SL-12: This discussion of Eriador is very brief in Appendix A. In that work it sets the stage for the discussion of Arnor which occupies that area. It does the same thing here.

RS-SL-13: I decided to include the rest of the Galadriel and Celeborn Appendix D here, since it describes the area, especially during the Third Age. I know it jumps around in time a bit, but as it is discussing geography and not history, I think it is ok.

RS-SL-14: This was a bit left out of Unfinished Tales and printed in the Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor essay.

RS-SL-15: I removed the references to The Lord of the Rings in order to preserve the historical nature of our text.

RS-SL-16: another LotR reference removed.

RS-SL-17: This ending to the footnote was left out of Unfinished Tales and given in the Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor essay.

RS-SL-18: We return to Appendix A's discussion of Eriador and how Arnor fits into it. We begin by laying out the geo-political status of the land: who owns what.

RS-SL-19: Here we begin to talk about the history of Arnor. Like in Gondor, there is no history written about the first few kings, and so the first thing we hear about Arnorian history is the fracturing of the realm.

RS-SL-20: This footnote is sourced from the lists of the Kings' names in the beginning of the Appendix, but I found it to be important and so I included it.

RS-SL-21 and 22: Here we return to Gondor, and I added a clarification to the 'his' in 'his nephew', since we have inserted a bunch of Arnorian history in between the last reference to Falastur.

RS-SL-23: In the next few paragraphs we will detail the change of name from Greenwood the Great to Mirkwood, so it is important that we are consistent and change it here.

RS-SL-24: Here we go back to Of the Rings of Power where we are given the first narrative introduction of Sauron's return: as a Shadow (making the title choice, I think, even more fitting). I edited it lightly since we already talked about Greenwood in the last paragraph. This is smoother, I think.

RS-SL-25: Here we see Thranduil's response to the arrival of Sauron to the forest, and we detail the origin of his Halls and his kingdom as it is in The Hobbit.

RS-SL-26: This detail about the extent of his realm was, I thought, important to include.

RS-SL-27: Here we return to Of the Rings of Power where we finally detail the change of name from Greenwood to Mirkwood.

RS-SL-28: This addition is from the early drafts of the Tale of Years, which were much longer and more text-heavy than the final versions were. I used this because it is the only place I found that detailed the origin or arrival of Hobbits, which is an incredibly important event and happens (according to the final Tale of Years) at this time. I therefore think it fits to use this here.

RS-SL-29: This additional detail is given in the note, and I think it is an interesting and important detail to add in.

RS-SL-30: These movements happen very close together in the timeline (within a few years) and I figured it made sense to include them in this paragraph.

RS-SL-31: Here we come to the arrival of the rest of the Istari from Of the Rings of Power. This was my original placement for the material which is now the chapter Of the Five Wizards, but now this is much reduced in content. This is fine, however, and I think this nice simple account fits nicely here.

RS-SL-32: I added this addition here to reflect the changes of Tolkien's which we have incorporated that say that the Blue Wizards came in the Second Age. I think this is enough to make the situation clear, but I am open to other alternatives.

RS-SL-33 and 34: I thought it was only fair to include the details of Radagast's dwelling, since we are given Gandalf and Saruman's. I took the text from Note 4 of The Istari in Unfinished Tales, and added in the tiny snippet from The Hobbit to create a quick description of Rhosgobel (as much as can be done).

That brings us to the end of the chapter. All in all, I am actually very proud of this chapter, since it took a lot of cross-checking and timeline measuring to make sure the narrative flow was accurate to history. Making a chapter out of so many different snippets is a challenge, but I think it turned out quite well. Hopefully you enjoy!

Last edited by ArcusCalion; 06-18-2018 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:50 AM   #2
Findegil
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My compliment, you managed this difficult chapter very nicely. I rather have additions than criticism:

RS-SL-01: I think we should add here a passage from The Heirs of Elendil:
Quote:
… but the hope of Elves and Men was that these things might never come to pass.

RS-SL-01.5{Valandil took up his abode in Annúminas, but}<The Heirs of Elendil In the tenth year of the Third Age Valandil being come to manhood took up the kingship of Arnor and dwelt at Annuminas by Lake Nenuial.> [u]But[/b] his folk were diminished, and of the Númenóreans and of the Men of Eriador there remained now too few to people the land or to maintain all the places that Elendil had built; in Dagorlad, and in Mordor, and upon the Gladden Fields many had fallen.>
RS-SL-10: We have a bit more info about Queen Berúthiel. In addition to the letter that Christopher Tolkien re-tells we have an interview with Daphne Castell that you may find here. Tolkien say there about Berúthiel:
Quote:
... I really don’t know anything of her—you remember Aragorn’s allusion in Book I (page 325) to the cats of Queen Berúthiel, that could find their way home on a blind night? She just popped up, and obviously called for attention, but I don’t really know anything certain about her; though, oddly enough, I have a notion that she was the wife of one of the ship-kings of Pelargir. She loathed the smell of the sea, and fish, and the gulls. Rather like Skadi, the giantess, who came to the gods in Valhalla, demanding a recompense for the accidental death of her father. She wanted a husband. The gods all lined up behind a curtain, and she selected the pair of feet that appealed to her most. She thought she’d got Baldur, the beautiful god, but it turned out to be Njord, the sea-god, and after she’d married him, she got absolutely fed up with the seaside life, and the gulls kept her awake, and finally she went back to live in Jotunheim.
Well, Berúthiel went back to live in the inland city, and went to the bad (or returned to it—she was a black Númenorean in origin, I guess). She was one of these people who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about—you know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them? I have a friend like that. I’m afraid she took to torturing them for amusement, but she kept some and used them—trained them to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them.”
I think we should add part of this to our telling of the story:
Quote:
RS-SL-09.5<Appendix A With Tarannon, the twelfth kingRS-SL-09.6<editorial addition of Gondor>, began the line of the Ship-kings, who built navies and extended the sway of Gondor along the coasts west and south of the Mouths of Anduin. To commemorate his victories as Captain of the Hosts, Tarannon took the crown in the name of Falastur 'Lord of the Coasts'.>
RS-SL-10<The Ist. Note 7 {She}Queen Berúthiel was the nefarious, solitary, and loveless wife of Tarannon, {twelfth King of Gondor (Third Age 830-913) and first of the ‘Ship-kings’, who took the crown in the name of Falastur ‘Lord of the Coasts,’ and was} the first childless king{ (The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A, I, ii and iv)}. Berúthiel lived in the King's House in Osgiliath, hating the sounds and smells of the sea and the house that Tarannon built below Pelargir upon arches whose feet stood deep in the wide waters of Ethir Anduin. RS-SL-10.2<The Realms of Tolkien She loathed the smell of the sea, and fish, and the gulls.> RS-SL-10.3<The Realms of Tolkien {Well,}Therefore Beruthiel went back to live in the inland city, and went to the bad (or returned to it -- she was a Black Numenorean in origin{, I guess}).> She hated all making, all colors and elaborate adornment, wearing only black and silver and living in bare chambers, and the gardens of the house in Osgiliath were filled with tormented sculptures beneath cypresses and yews. RS-SL-10.4<The Realms of Tolkien She was one of these people who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about{ -- you know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them? I have a friend like that. I'm afraid she}. She took to torturing them for amusement, but she kept some and used them: trained them to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them.> She had nine black cats and one white, her slaves, with whom she conversed, or read their memories, setting them to discover all the dark secrets of Gondor, so that she knew those things that men wish most to keep hidden, setting the white cat to spy upon the black, and tormenting them. No man in Gondor dared touch them; all were afraid of them, and cursed when they saw them pass. RS-SL-11 {What follows is almost wholly illegible in the unique manuscript, except to the ending, which states that her}Her name was erased from the Book of the Kings, but the memory of men is not wholly shut in books, and the cats of Queen Berúthiel never passed wholly out of men's speech. {and that} King Tarannon had her set on a ship alone with her cats and set adrift on the sea before a north wind. The ship was last seen flying past Umbar under a sickle moon, with a cat at the masthead and another as a figure-head on the prow.>
Connected to this I would point out that the mentioning of the the Queen Berúthiel as a Black Númenorian makes probably this the first episode of the struggle for Umbar. It seems logical that building up the fleet as Tarannon Falastur did would bring him in contact with Umbar and the Black Númenorians. But as it seems his approach was ‘diplomatic’ probably trying to get hold of Umbar or at least lasting friendship or better relations by marriage of a noble from that city. But that failed, as the marriage was unhappy and childless and ended by Falastur murdering Berúthiel and her cats by setting them alone adrift in a ship. That this provoked renewed hostility in Umbar that let in the end to Mardils invasion is not to be wondered about.
As a consequence of this I would move the complete passage quoted above to a slightly later place just before RS-SL-21. I know that this is against the chronological order, but it is the easiest way to make the connection just explained clearer.

RS-SL-18: Here we give an account of the Dwarves still journeying along the Great Road. That is good placed and well edited, but the passage ‘as they had done for long years before Hobbits came to the Shire’ most in my opinion be changed. I would simply remove ‘before the Hobbits came to the shire’. Whatever reference we take for the ‘long years’ it is right since the Great Road was used if not made by the Dwarves for their trade between the different realms even before the rising of the Sun.

RS-SL-26: This case is similar to the last, so here we might leave the allusion to the future stand, so for the moment I think we should remove the following bit at the end ‘, before the coming of the Dwarves exiled from Moria and the invasion of the Dragon’.

RS-SL-29: I think we should add here where these Hobbits settled. After this I think we should use a part from Of Dwarves and Men:
Quote:
The Harfoots were the first clan of Hobbits to enter Eriador{.}>RS-SL-29.5<LotR, Prologue , and roamed over Eriador as far as Weather Top while the others were still in Wilderland.> RS-SL-30<HoME 12: TY4 The Fallohides, a clan of the Periannath, crossed into Eriador and came down from the North along the River Hoarwell. About the same time the Stoors, another clan, came over the Redhorn Pass and moved RS-SL-30.1<LotR, Appendix B to the Angle or >south towards Dunland RS-SL-30.2<LotR, Prologue ; and there many of them long dwelt between Tharbad and the borders of Dunland>.>
RS-SL-30.2<HoME 12; Of Dwarves and Men Hobbits {on the other hand }were in nearly all respects normal Men, but of very short stature. They were called 'halflings'; but this refers to the normal height of men of Numenorean descent and of the Eldar (especially those of Noldorin descent), which appears to have been about seven of our feet.{[Footnote to the text: See the discussion of lineal measurements and their equation with our measures in the legend of The Disaster of the Gladden Fields. [This discussion (which, with the work itself, belongs to the very late period - 1968 or later) is found in Unfinished Tales, pp. 285 ff., where a note on the stature of Hobbits is also given.]]} Their height at the periods concerned was usually more than three feet for men, though very few ever exceeded three foot six; women seldom exceeded three feet. They were not as numerous or variable as ordinary Men, but evidently more numerous and adaptable to different modes of life and habitat than the Drûgs, and when they are first encountered in the histories already showed divergences in colouring, stature, and build, and in their ways of life and preferences for different types of country to dwell in{ (see the Prologue to The Lord of the Rings, p. 12)}. In their unrecorded past they must have been a primitive, indeed 'savage' people,[Footnote to the text: In the original sense of 'savage'; they were by nature of gentle disposition, neither cruel nor vindictive.] but when we meet them they had (in varying degrees) acquired many arts and customs by contact with Men, and to a less extent with Dwarves and Elves. With Men of normal stature they recognized their close kinship, whereas Dwarves or Elves, whether friendly or hostile, were aliens, with whom their relations were uneasy and clouded by fear.[Footnote to the text: Of different kinds: Dwarves they found of uncertain temper and dangerous if displeased; Elves they viewed with awe, and avoided. Even in the Shire in the Third Age, where Elves were more often to be met than in other regions where Hobbits dwelt or had dwelt, most of the Shire-folk would have no dealings with them. 'They wander in Middle-earth,' they said, 'but their minds and hearts are not there.'] RS-SL-30.4{Bilbo's}The statement {(The Lord of the Rings I.162)[Footnote to the text: ['Nowhere else in the world was this peculiar (but excellent) arrangement to be found': opening of the chapter At the Sign of the Prancing Pony. This observation is here attributed to Bilbo as the ultimate author of the Red Book of Westmarch.]]} that the cohabitation of Big Folk and Little Folk in one settlement at Bree was peculiar and nowhere else to be found was probably true {in his time (}at the end of the Third Age{)};[Footnote to the text: Indeed it is probable that only at Bree and in the Shire did any communities of Hobbits survive at that time west of the Misty Mountains. Nothing is known of the situation in lands further east, from which the Hobbits must have migrated in unrecorded ages.] but it would seem that actually Hobbits had liked to live with or near to Big Folk of friendly kind, who with their greater strength protected them from many dangers and enemies and other hostile Men, and received in exchange many services. For it is remarkable that the western Hobbits preserved no trace or memory of any language of their own. The language they spoke when they entered Eriador was evidently adopted from the Men of the Vales of Anduin (related to the Atani, {/ in particular to those of the House of Beor [>} of the Houses of Hador and of Beor{]}); and after their adoption of the Common Speech they retained many words of that origin. This indicates a close association with Big Folk; though the rapid adoption of the Common Speech in Eriador[Footnote to the text: When they entered Eriador (early in the second {century}[millennium] of the Third Age) Men were still numerous there, both Numenoreans and other Men related to the Atani, beside remnants of Men of evil kinds, hostile to the Kings. But the Common Speech (of Numenorean origin) was in general use there, even after the decay of the North Kingdom. RS-SL-30.6{In Bilbo's time}At the end of the Thrid Age great areas of Eriador were empty of Men. The desolation had begun in the Great Plague (soon after the Hobbits' occupation of the Shire), and was hastened by the final fall and disappearance of the North Kingdom. In the Plague it would seem that the only Hobbit communities to survive were those in the far North-west at Bree and in the Shire.{ [The opening sentence of this note, placing the entry of the Hobbits into Eriador 'early in the second century of the Third Age', is plainly a casual error: presumably my father intended 'millennium' for 'century' (in Appendix B the date of the coming of the Harfoots is given under Third Age 1050, and that of the Fallohides and the Stoors under 1150).]}] shows Hobbits to have been specially adaptable in this respect. As does also the divergence of the Stoors, who had associated with Men of different sort before they came to the Shire.
The vague tradition preserved by the Hobbits of the Shire was that they had dwelt once in lands by a Great River, but long ago had left them, and found their way through or round high mountains, when they no longer felt at ease in their homes because of the multiplication of the Big Folk and of a shadow of fear that had fallen on the Forest. This evidently reflects the troubles of Gondor in the earlier part of the Third Age. The increase in Men was not the normal increase of those with whom they had lived in friendship, but the steady increase of invaders from the East, further south held in check by Gondor, but in the North beyond the bounds of the Kingdom harassing the older 'Atanic' inhabitants, and even in places occupying the Forest and coming through it into the Anduin valley. But the shadow of which the tradition spoke was not solely due to human invasion. Plainly the Hobbits had sensed, even before the Wizards and the Eldar had become fully aware of it, the awakening of Sauron and his occupation of Dol Guldur.[Footnote to the text: The invasions were no doubt also in great part due to Sauron; for the 'Easterlings' were mostly Men of cruel and evil kind, descendants of those who had served and worshipped Sauron before his overthrow at the end of the Second Age.>
RS-SL-31<ORP Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood …
RS-SL-30.3: I removed ‘on the other hand’ since it has lost its reference which was the passage about the Drûg.
RS-SL-30.4: I think we have to remove Bilbo here and of course the editorial reference to LotR.
RS-SL-30.6: I replaced ‘Bilbo’s time’ by ‘the end of the Third Age’.
RS-SL-30.8: I removed this editorial note but made the correction earlier in the text.

RS-SL-31 to RS-SL-34: I see that we have a chapter in volume 3 about the Istari where we can address a many things easier, but we maybe should at least mention somewhere here or in the Second Age chapter the name ‘Blue Wizards Ithryn Luin’ maybe here with an allusion that Saruman journey with them into the east.
In addition I think we should add here the scene of Círdan giving Narya to Gandalf. I suggest to take that from The Rings of Power since we might repeat the scene in volume 3 with in the essay The Istari.

One last point:
RS-SL-08, RS-SL-09.5, RS-SL-19, RS-SL-21: We should discuss if we will not in these cases take the very similar passages from The Heirs of Elendil. I agree that Appendix A has additional information, but we could add these into the wording of The Heirs of Elendil, if necessary. On the other hand we might consider taking The Heirs of Elendil and update it as part of volume 3 behind The Line of Elros. If we do that then here Appendix A is the better source.

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Findegil

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Old 06-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #3
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RS-SL-01.5: Agreed, good find.

RS-SL-10.2: I don't think we need to first addition, since we already say much the same thing a sentence earlier. Same with the third addition, since the information is basically the same as that already given in the existing note. The middle addition is very good though. I also agree to move the quoted additions to the place just before RS-SL-21.

RS-SL-18: I actually think we are fine to leave the phrase 'before Hobbits came to the Shire.' This work was supposed to have been compiled by Hobbits and Gondorian scribes, and so to use this phrase does not pose any real contradictions or issues in my opinion.

RS-SL-26: This I agree to, because it presupposes knowledge of the future event, whereas the previous phrase did not. Therefore i agree to remove this phrase here. However, I would then change 'was growing' to 'grew' in order to make the sentence sound better.

RS-SL-29: Agreed to this and all the Dwarves and Men additions. Great find, I'd totally forgotten about that section!

RS-SL-31 to 34: I actually don't think we need to insert the name Ithryn Luin. Having it in the essay in Volume 3 is for me enough information. Also, in this new timeline, they cannot go into the East with Saruman, since they journeyed there long before he came to Middle-earth.

As to the scene with Cirdan, I intentionally did not include this here. I want to keep the structure of Of the Rings of Power where Gandalf's possession of Narya is a secret revealed only at the end. Tolkien made that choice deliberately and I see no reason to go against that. This way it has more dramatic and thematic weight.

Heirs of Elendil: I think that we should incorporate the Heirs into the text of our drafts. I have done so in some later narratives of Eldacar/Valacar and of Narmacil, where Heirs had much more information. But I do not think we should prefer it over Appendix A. Appendix A is the final and correct form, and is often the most verbose. Therefore, I think that any new information from Heirs should be simply inserted into the Appendix A additions, like you have done in RS-SL-01.5. I ultimately see no real reason to prefer Heirs of Elendil as the base text as opposed to Appendix A.

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Old 06-18-2018, 02:51 PM   #4
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RS-SL-10.2: I agree that these is supperficial.

RS-SL-10.4: I don't think that we have an other source that Berúthiel actually hated the cats becuase they jumped at her. We might skip the last part from ', but she kept some ...'.

RS-SL-18: This would then be the first mention of the Shire at all. I don't think that is okay.

RS-SL-31 to RS-SL-34: The Blue Wizards could have come back to meet Saruman. But I am okay with not mentioning them together with Saruman. But what actaully speak against this:
Quote:
... RS-SL-32{, and}In the Second Age had come others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these talesRS-SL-32.5<UT Istari , and they had no names save Ithryn Luin ‘the Blue Wizards’>. Radagast was the friend of all beasts and birds; ...
About Narya: Okay, we will see if we can maintain that in the part about Concerning Gandalf, Saruman, and the Shire.

Heirs of Elendil: Well, the reason to prefer this text above Appendix A is that considering a 4 volume book bound in red leather the volume 4 would contain The Hobbit, LotR including the Appendicies and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil. But I am not adamant on this.
However we might consider the inclusion of the Heirs of Elendil, if we accept repetition between our narrative text and the Appendicies of LotR, why not with as well with volume 3?

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Old 06-18-2018, 03:42 PM   #5
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RS-SL-10.4: Agreed.

RS-SL-18: Very well, we can remove it.

RS-SL-31/34: I do not agree with this addition, only because it is not true that they had no names, since we have listed two names for each of them already in the story. Therefore if we must name them, let it be thus:
Quote:
... RS-SL-32 {, and}In the Second Age had come others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales RS-SL-32.5<UT Istari , and they {had no names save}were named Ithryn Luin ‘the Blue Wizards’>. Radagast was the friend of all beasts and birds; ...
This way we both are satisfied, yes?

Heirs of Elendil: I think I disagree. This is the text setting forth the contents of the actual Red Book of Westmarch:
Quote:
That most important source for the history of the War of the Ring was so called because it was long preserved at Undertowers, the home of the Fairbairns, Wardens of the Westmarch. It was in origin Bilbo's private diary, which he took with him to Rivendell. Frodo brought it back to the Shire, together with many loose leaves of notes, and during S.R. 1420-1 he nearly filled its pages with his account of the War. But annexed to it and preserved with it, probably m a single red case, were the three large volumes, bound in red leather, that Bilbo gave to him as a parting gift. To these four volumes there was added in Westmarch a fifth containing commentaries, genealogies, and various other matter concerning the hobbit members of the Fellowship.
So from this is can be seen that there are five volumes:
Volume 1): The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings
Volume 2), 3), 4): Translations from the Elvish (our work)
Volume 5): Lost materials, but no doubt many of the things that make up the Appendices, such as the Geneologies and the later part of the Tale of Years.
Therefore, to say that Appendix A is included with LotR is not true. This is from the preface of Appendix A:
Quote:
The legends, histories, and lore to be found in the sources are very extensive. Only selections from them, in most places much abridged, are here presented. Their principal purpose is to illustrate the War of the Ring and its origins, and to fill up some of the gaps in the main story. The ancient legends of the First Age, in which Bilbo's chief interest lay, are very briefly referred to, since they concern the ancestry of Elrond and the Númenorean kings and chieftains. Actual extracts from longer annals and tales are placed within quotation marks. Insertions of later date are enclosed in brackets. Notes within quotation marks are found in the sources. Others are editorial.
Tolkien is saying that these histories were simply presented with the published book in order to give it some context, but most of the material in the Appendices is drawn from sources of lore. Some of the material about the Dwarves is said to have been learned from Gimli, but the rest of the sourcing for the Appedices is very vague, simply seeming to come from books of lore. Therefore, I think it is likely to assume that the Appendices are meant to be extractions from Translations from the Elvish by Bilbo, since they were the primary historical compendium existing in the later days of Middle-earth. Therefore, there is no reason to assume that there is repetition between our text of the Appendices and the text of Volume 1 of the Red Book. (As for the Adventures of Tom Bombadil and collections, the preface to that says that the poems were scribbled in the margins of the texts, so there is no need to assume they were officially collected anywhere.) Therefore, as there is no repetition between the material of the Appendices used for Translations from the Elvish and that used in Volume 1 of the Red Book, I see no reason to give the entirety of Heirs of Elendil, especially when that is simply a first draft for Appendix A.
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:57 PM   #6
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I actually discovered that nowhere outside of the Council of Elrond chapter is it said that the capital of Arnor moved from Annuminas to Fornost, so I propose we edit it in like so:
Quote:
... in Dagorlad, and in Mordor, and upon the Gladden Fields many had fallen RS-SL-01.6 <LotR ; and so the heirs of Valandil removed and dwelt at Fornost on the high North Downs>.>
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:27 PM   #7
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I am not fully in agreement with what you said about the Red Book and our work, but I agree to the conclusion you have drawn.

I as well agree to the rest of your proposals.

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Old 07-14-2018, 12:27 AM   #8
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In my quest to add in the rest of the LotR prologue, the bulk of usable material in Concerning Hobbits should go in this chapter. Here is how I lay it out.

I made a slight restructuring change. RS-SL-28 through RS-SL-30.6 I have moved to the very end of the chapter, and made some changes. Therefore, the paragrah from ORP talking about the Necromancer goes right into the paragraph talking about the Istari.

Quote:
FY-HL-04.5 Concerning Hobbits

RS-SL-28 <HoME 12: TY4 About this time also the Periannath, of whom there are no earlier accounts among Elves or Men, are first mentioned in ancient tales. These were a strange small people, called by Men RS-SL-29 <per note 15 (of whose kindred they were maybe a branch)> Halflings, but by themselves (later in the west of Eriador) Hobbits. They are thought to have long dwelt in Greenwood the Great or near its western eaves, and in the vale of the upper Anduin. But at this time they began to move westward over the Misty Mountains into Eriador. It is said that they moved from their earlier dwellings because Men increased much at that time; and because a shadow fell on Greenwood, and it became darkened, and was called Mirkwood, for an evil spirit stirred there. The Harfoots were the first clan of Hobbits to enter Eriador{.}> RS-SL-29.5 <LotR, Prologue , and roamed over Eriador as far as Weathertop while the others were still in Wilderland.> RS-SL-29.6 <LotR Prologue The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller, and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble; and they preferred highlands and hillsides.> RS-SL-29.7 <LotR Prologue The Harfoots had much to do with Dwarves in ancient times, and long lived in the foothills of the mountains.> RS-SL-29.8 <LotR Prologue They were the most normal and representative variety of Hobbit, and far the most numerous. They were the most inclined to settle in one place, and longest preserved their ancestral habit of living in tunnels and holes.> RS-SL-30 <HoME 12: TY4 The Fallohides, a clan of the Periannath, crossed into Eriador and came down from the North along the River Hoarwell. RS-SL-30.05 <LotR Prologue The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others; they were lovers of trees and of woodlands.> RS-SL-30.06 <LotR Prologue The Fallohides, the least numerous, were a northerly branch. They were more friendly with Elves than the other Hobbits were, and had more skill in language and song than in handicrafts; and of old they preferred hunting to tilling.> RS-SL-30.07 <LotR Prologue In Eriador they soon mingled with the other kinds that had preceded them, but being somewhat bolder and more adventurous, they were often found as leaders or chieftains among clans of Harfoots or Stoors.> About the same time the Stoors, another clan, came over the Redhorn Pass and moved RS-SL-30.1<LotR, Appendix B to the Angle or> south towards Dunland RS-SL-30.2<LotR, Prologue ; and there many of them long dwelt between Tharbad and the borders of Dunland>.> RS-SL-30.21 <LotR Prologue The Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger, and they preferred flat lands and riversides.> RS-SL-30.22 <LotR Prologue They lingered long by the banks of the Great River Anduin, and were less shy of Men.[/b]>
RS-SL-30.3 <HoME 12; Of Dwarves and Men[/b] Hobbits {on the other hand} were in nearly all respects normal Men, .....
...
... before his overthrow at the end of the Second Age.]>
RS-SL-30.7 <LotR Prologue
As for the Hobbits of the Shire, with whom these tales are concerned, in the days of their peace and prosperity ..... which they gave away freely and eagerly accepted.>
RS-SL-30.8 <LotR Prologue
All Hobbits had originally lived in holes in the ground, or so they believed, ..... accustomed to build sheds and workshops.
The habit of building farmhouses and barns ...... words not found elsewhere in the Shire.
It is probable that the craft of building, ...... away from the hills in the west.
The craft of building may have come ...... peculiarity of hobbit-architecture.
The houses and the holes of Shire-hobbits were often large, and inhabited by large families. RS-SL-30.9 {(Bilbo and Frodo Baggins were as bachelors very exceptional, as they were also in many other ways, such as their friendship with the Elves.)} Sometimes, as in the case of the Tooks of Great Smials, ..... set out fair and square with no contradictions.>

FY-HL-04.7
Concerning Pipe-Weed

RS-SL-30.95 <LotR Prologue There is another astonishing thing about Hobbits of old that must be mentioned, an astonishing habit: they imbibed or inhaled, through pipes of clay or wood, the smoke of the burning leaves of an herb, which they called pipe-weed or leaf, RS-SL-30.97 {a variety probably of Nicotiana}. A great deal of mystery ..... his remarks in the introduction to his Herblore of the Shire may be quoted.
‘This,' he says, 'is the one art that we can .... Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby, and Southern Star.
'How Old Toby came by the plant ..... family of Butterbur from time beyond record.
'All the same, observations that I have ..... all other things that he put his mind to.'>
RS-SL-30.9: I removed the reference to Bilbo and Frodo since it seemed out of place this early on. The reference to Merry is different, because he is being cited as a historical source.
RS-SL-30.97: I removed this bit, because it gives a real world genus for a plant, something that would not exist in-universe.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:20 AM   #9
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FY-HL-04.5: This is supposed to be a sup-chapter title, right?

RS-SL-30.97: We do not wrigth in-univers texts. We even left in references to modern english. So I think this can stand.

With all the rest I agree.

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Old 07-15-2018, 10:08 AM   #10
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FY-HL-04.5: Indeed.

RS-SL-30.97: If you think so, then I will leave it.
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