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Old 02-25-2012, 03:31 PM   #361
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Little Green View Post
Err - you do know that the exact same thing applies to yourself as well? The only difference between us with regards to Steve's case against Nog was that I had to vote and go to sleep immediately after it.
Of course I am aware of that. The difference is that I know I am innocent. And because I am innocent, I have no fear of saying what I think, even if it incriminates me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
Btw Eönwë since not many people answered your question, I agree with whoever it was (Zil?) who said the best time to reveal the dream would be before European bedtime today.
It was me, thank you. Twice.

EDIT: x-ed with Lottie
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:53 PM   #362
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Legate: Yes, I might react with disbelief. I would, however, check the facts BEFORE I posted anything. Especially since a big chunk of your distrust of Eonwe had in fact come from his outburst against Nog in the same morning. I would think, okay, so this guy is trying to seem a seer. I don't trust him. Why do I not trust him? I don't trust you, Legate because of how you acted in the Eonwe-case. If you'd now tell me you're a seer I would definitely reevaluate since in that case you'd have a good reason not to believe him.

And on Greenie: no surprise she has been so un-suspected. She has made a couple of sharp points (but wolves are capable of doing that). Biggest reason for her apparent innocence is the fact that she has had to leave early every Day, which has made her votes harder to read. I'm not saying that she's a wolf (far from that, though I'm not giving her the certain pr probable innocence either), but I'm glad she'll be around more today, so that maybe we can get a bit more material on her.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:54 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
Eönwë and Lottie - after what we've seen toDay, do you really believe Shasta and Legate could be in the same wolf team?
It's a possibility. Very brave, very dangerous, but if pulled off could be very successful. I mean, since the end of yesterDay it would be clear that they would both be under heavy suspicion (Shasta for his acolyte-stuff and Legate for his anti-seer sentiment and then his 180 which looks like it was made to just appear good). Like I said before, it's the whole splitting the village into two sides, when really it's all under the banner of a wolf (like false competition in the business world). I can see Shasta being up for it, but I don't know about Legate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
It was me, thank you. Twice.
Though first you suggested waiting until the end of the Day.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:08 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eönwë View Post
Eönwë, read it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
I actually suggest first NOT. Keep everyone (especially the WWs, therefore) in the dark until the end of the Day - or until most people really have to start voting, at least (=e.g. if people started to suspect you one Ordo heavily, Eönwë, you should stop them and reveal the person) - because if you don't say that yet, the WWs can be confused, we can possibly read more from their reactions... Nobody will kill you until the end of the Day, right, so no hurry with that.
Here - bolding mine. I had the same thing in mind from the beginning: before the first people (likely Americans) have to vote (that "you" in the bracket is of course a typo, should be "your").

Working on Nogalysis now... will post shortly.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:25 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
I don't want to think I'm basically OMGUSing Legate here - I might be, certainly, but he's seemed completely (not a bit, not some, pretty much completely) off to me since the beginning.
I have to admit to not remembering what OMGUS means, but I do seem to recall you suspecting Legate on Day 1, based at least in part on his interactions with me regarding the Acolyte.
However, I don't know if that really gels with your focus now on me as the Acolyte!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Little Green View Post
A question that isn't even rhetorical but a serious one I'd like an answer for: why the blazes is everyone discussing the flipping acolyte? Has everyone forgotten we have wolves to catch? A dead wolf whose relationships with people we could go through? Yes, we shouldn't forget about the acolyte, but debating about her/him to this extent makes no sense. Not when we really have more substantial food for thought and discussion.
A question I've had for some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
Boro and Zil look pretty innocent to me now, Legate and Shasta are weird (that obsession on the acolyte is not natural even for Shasta who can be a little single-minded at times ), Pitch is under my radar and I have a vague bad feeling about Pom. I will need to reread and think more, maybe make a list.
I don't know about Boro. He feels less "natural" for him toDay than he did yesterDay. I'm used to an innocent Boro being a cunning, bold wolf-hunter and I really haven't seen that.

Pitch is just sort of hanging around in the background. He's not someone I could vote for toDay, I don't think, but I really need to go back and look at his stuff thus far.

As for Legate and Shasta, I still feel like I could vote either toDay.

Legate didn't do himself any favors in my eyes by his reaction to Steve, and for the life of me I can't understand Shasta. The focus on the Acolyte is one thing, but there's also that he seems so certain it's me. Like I said before, if the Acolyte is truly playing only for xemself, it's a lot more a shot in the dark to find xem than it is team players like wolves.
If those two are in the same pack, the wolf-on-wolf has been masterful.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:44 PM   #366
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NOGALYSIS:

Day 1

- using the "random vote" argument to stir his own soup
- Greenie "might be up to something"
- Lottie "not too comfortable with"
- "something bothers" him about Pitch
- bothered about Boro the way he "painted G55 suspicious"
- agreeing with me a lot on several things
- larger and more focus on Lottie
- happy to lynch Bom
- he says he had tried to write a post on Zil two times and always decided not to post it - "you make me mad Zil!" (#122)
- does not believe in the guilt of Lommy (based on evidence) - sort of defense
- is "torn on principle" after Shasta's suggestion of Bom
- says he considers for voting: G55 or Boro, possibly Eruhen - or go with Shasta and vote Bom
- votes Bom
- says seems like he parroted almost everything I had said

Day 2

- short excursion about Acolyte
- explains how yesterDay sudden Lommywagon raised his eyebrows and made him wary
- analysis of Rikae after her death: says she suspected Zil, Steve, been "engaged with Lottie and nasty with G55"
- rebukes Pitch for being wise on hindsight (about Bom-lynch)
- retrospectively says he wanted to originally think of options between Bom, Boro and G55, and he did not want to vote Lommy by any means
- some hunter-thoughts about Zil or Boro maybe not being WWs if Rikae had hunted them, but he's being rather confused about that
- suspicions against Steve and G55. By the way, I think here might also be part of the reason for G55's death toNight: the WWs saw Nog was against her, so after he died, people might consider G55 innocent...
- again making it more hazy about whether Zil or Boro were Rikae's targets, whether they are WWs and she miscalculated, or are not... basically he's making the whole matter mysterious (which won't hurt him, I would think that at least one of his fellows is somehow in there - Boro or Zil, not sure if he'd talk specifically about them if it was them both)
- arguing with Boro, arguing with Pitch, suspecting G55...
- then a list!!! Great. Not sure what to make of it, though. Tends to trust Greenie somewhat, me somewhat; normal feelings from Lommy (nothing for or against) and something positive-seeming about Pomegranate. Vileness about Pitch, no ideas about Lottie, Sally, Shasta (no show until then). Mess with Boro, suspicion of G55. Enigmatic Zil-acolyte, we all know the story.
- from then on: Seer has revealed. Turns against Steve, G55 and slightly Boro.
- continues on "Zil is acolyte" until the very end.

This all leads me to believe:

1. Lottie is innocent (further supports my belief in that, I am now almost 100% sure she is innocent)

2. I am not sure what to make of Nog's attitude to Lommy, honestly that goes absolutely over my head, might be this, might be that...

3. Not sure about Greenie - there was the original slight suspicion, but later nothing; might be a packmate (small W-on-W and then nothing)

4. Now after reading this - I know that it will again sound like I am going purposefully against you, Shasta - after reading this, it's really weird that Shasta was the one person who followed the idea to lynch Zil and what more, that he is Acolyte. However, when I read what Shasta had said on his very voting post, it would again take a lot of boldness from a Wolf to do that. So basically the same thing as the first Day. Either Shasta is incredibly bold this game and now he has to stick to the role he had prepared for himself (promoting the thought that we have evil Zil Acolyte and need to get rid of him), or then he genuinely believes that (but then he was really jumping to completely unfounded assumptions).

5. As everything with Zil in this game, it is too hard to determine what he was thinking: whether Zil was a packmate and he was making a mess about the acolyte thing and later Nog wanted to (since he was a goner anyway) accuse a fellow Wolf; or whether Zil was innocent, Nog randomly went on with this Acolyte thing and then after he was revealed as Wolf, simply continued to accuse him in order to confuse us. Somehow, after thinking about it, I think the latter sounds more likely.

6. I have no idea what to make out of his interactions with Boro

7. being nice to Pomegranate - might be just echoing the agreeing posts, but of course might be packmates too

8. I would say it makes Pitch look better that Nog suspected him - though again, he never really voted him, so I think somebody should look at Pitch, too (he's a submarine, anyway) - not sure if toDay, but for future reference, for sure!

9. General thought about Wolf mentality: I would believe there is at least one Wolf among those Nog had not been talking much about. It is after all always better not to have to state your opinion on somebody, as it does not connect you in either way, positively or negatively.

Not sure how much this is helpful, but at least some more food for thought in general.

Btw: Was it Nog who had come up with that "Zil is Acolyte" stuff or was it somebody else before him, too? Does anybody remember?

EDIT: x-ed with Zil
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:02 PM   #367
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Actually, Nog was the first one to say anything in any ways questioning about me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod View Post
Pomegranate: I'm more or less agreeing with the majority that she looks both sharp and well, although I suspected her strong language in her first posts on my Bom-lynch -issue (or how she handled Legate: I think I've never seen Legate as explanational than there ). Seeing that she voted Legate (whom I tend to trust somewhat) sure makes me wonder what did it mean when she said he answered her questions "fairly well" - and yet merited a vote. Also she talks of two votes for Eönwë which is either incorrect or then I have missed something; or that we should look at Legate, Eönwë (sic!) and Lommy while the person voting Eönwë is Greenie! (I'm really thinking I'm missing something here)
not that sure what that says to everyone about me, but when for once someone says something else than "she seems sharp", I remember it :P
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:42 PM   #368
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Finns +1 and Shasta: Kindly calm down and stop flipping out. Now.

Thank you. Moving right along....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Her Modness
The Acolyte....Does not count for either side in the tally.
So, if you go with the assumption that the Acolyte kills every Night, yes, they are evil, but as far as numbers in the tally, the wolves are a bigger issue. We currently have ten people, which means we have nine people, which means we have three wolves and six goodies (and then of course the Acolyte). If we go after the Acolyte toDay and succeed, we will be in the same position toMorrow, except worse after the Night's kill. If we go after a wolf and succeed, we improve our numbers, which, granted, will decrease over the Night. Consider, however, the fact that the werewolves could kill the Acolyte, or the Acolyte could target one of the wolves. Thus, our more pressing issue must be the wolves, as they are a cohesive (mostly) unit, whereas the Acolyte, while a definite threat, is one man/woman.

Of course evil is evil, so as long as our lynch is evil, I will be happy. Thus, I'm not suspecting X or Y more of being wolf or Acolyte, but of being evil, period, the end.


Now onto other players....

I honestly believe that Shasta's over-the-top reaction to suspicion (which, at this point, has become rather silly, on both sides) is that of an innocent Shasta. As one who reacts so strongly as a suspected innocent, I can understand his annoyance. Of course, he could be acting, but I'd probably want to snuggle him either way. He is far from my main concern toDay.

Considering that I've suspected Legate most of the game, and that his reaction to Steve's reveal was so bizarre, I'm hardly going to stop suspecting him. He is my most likely vote candidate toDay.

Just so I can say I said it, if Steve is lying, he is in so much trouble.

Lommie's "I think Shasta should have found something wrong with my XYZ" makes me feel both more at ease and more concerned. Yes, it's true that it's something an ordo Lommie would say, but an evil Lommie would know that and would say it to look like an innocent Lommie saying that to make herself look more innocent. And other blather. Blargh, Lommie, I wish you hadn't said anything at all. I'm so torn now. :/

I can't get a good read on Lottie, PomPom, and Boro, so I'm leaving them alone in favor of better prospects.

Greenie rather fits into the above category, but I never can read her well, so I've come to expect that. If someone gives me a good reason to lynch her, I would, but otherwise I would be happy to leave her be and hope she is on my side.

I still maintain that Dun is evil. And no, Dun, it is not just because of your discussion (or rather, preference to have a lack thereof) of the Acolyte role. He simply reads like Inziladundundun to me, and has throughout most of the game. Now, someone explain to me exactly why he's the Acolyte and not a wolf.

And Pitch? Goodness, in another few posts, I'll have caught up to him, yet despite how little he's said, I've got this clear guilty impression of him. I think....honestly, I think I'm getting him and Dun blended again. I went back and looked back at my previous post (you know, the one that was longer than six lines) and couldn't help but notice that I didn't have much to say about him. Of course, what I said wasn't very good, but now that I've gone over things again, I don't want to concern myself with him toDay for fear that I've overreacted.

We all know what this list means, right? It means that I will be voting for Legate or Dun toDay. Which one though? I'm not yet sure.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Both Acolyte and wolf are bad
So why are we all getting mad
About this new role?
Why should we take polls
When we're all about to be had?

Just sayin'.


EDIT: I've been working on this list for about two hours, having been pulled away from the computer multiple times, so I've not really read the last....ten posts?
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:45 PM   #369
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Ok, so it's about time to reveal who the Ordo is.

This will probably shock most of you, but the answer is... Inzil!




So, my picks:

Nigh1 1- Nogrod (Wolf)
Night 2 - Inzil (Ordo)
Night 3 - G55 (Ranger)


edit: x-ed with Sally.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:56 PM   #370
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I feel myself physically falling asleep at my computer (and I want to wake up aerlier so that I can talk more in the time before the DL, so here are a few final observations for now:

-I've looked over Lottie's posts. Their actual content seems innocent, but she seems way too quiet for normal Lottie, so I'm not sure what to think about that.

-The fact that Zil is innocent is the reason I was looking at Boro. I mean, the hint seems to pretty explicitly say that Inzil was the hunting target, and the fact that Nog tried to shift it to Boro seems quite bad.

-Still not sure what I think about the Shasta vs Legate thing toDay.



Of course, my main suspicion lies with Legate, but to a lesser extent, I also suspect Shasta, and there're also Boro, Lommy and Pitch who seem to be hanging around in my mind as possibly evil.

Obviously, Zil is good, and I still think Pom looks good. Lommy's more recent posts look quite good, but overall, she still seems kinda suspicious to me.

I still have no idea what to do with Sally or Greenie. I will look at them when I get back.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eönwë View Post
Ok, so it's about time to reveal who the Ordo is.

This will probably shock most of you, but the answer is... Inzil!




So, my picks:

Nigh1 1- Nogrod (Wolf)
Night 2 - Inzil (Ordo)
Night 3 - G55 (Ranger)
I thought so. You'd suspected me pretty strongly on Day 1. Then on Day 2, you dismissed me as a threat. When you revealed, it made sense. That's the reason I was so quick to trust you.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:02 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomegranate View Post
not that sure what that says to everyone about me, but when for once someone says something else than "she seems sharp", I remember it :P
You might not be able to fully experience a Downsian WW game until you've had a good, passionate row with me, but honestly, you need to start looking 20 times more suspicious for that to happen. Until then, you're going to be on my "Smart. Sharp player. Her, I like." list. It's probably a terribly boring list to be on, but you'll be on it until I actually see "Not only is she all that, but she's evil too. Her, I like, but keep a closer eye on!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
I don't know about Boro. He feels less "natural" for him toDay than he did yesterDay. I'm used to an innocent Boro being a cunning, bold wolf-hunter and I really haven't seen that.
Maybe if I actually had some gift in this game, I would see your point about not being myself. But really, I know nothing more than any other non-spy or seer. All I can do here is if I see it, call bs on someone and hopefully not do something disastrous like lynching the seer. If I can manage that, I think I've done the best I can, you lot...expect too much from me.

But I do realize I've been rubbish as far as giving my clear thoughts about today/lynching Nog/Ranger killed. It's nothing you're missing though, when it's essentially "I would not in the least bit have a problem with lynching Legate and/or* Shasta today."

*Yes, and/or, because I think there's been enough concentration on the two of them, for me...I've had enough Legate/Shasta in one sitting. I would propose orchestrating double-lynch, if not for the very fact that all of you are flippin' mad today and it's making me mental. So, attempting to put together a double-lynch would drive me more bonkers than what it would actually be worth.

I'm well aware there are more spies than just Legate a/o Shasta, but I am perhaps the worst multi-tasker you'll ever know. Give me one thing to do. I'll execute it and then move on to the next thing. Asking me to jumble all these ideas of a Legate-Shasta-Pitch, Shasta-Lommy-Greenie, Legate-sally-Lommy spy combinations is a processing overload for me. So unless you want my brain to explode, let me go about my business one step at a time. Starting with either Legate or Shasta today. Comprende?

Edit: crossed with everyone since Pom's that I quoted
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:09 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satansaloser2005 View Post
So, if you go with the assumption that the Acolyte kills every Night, yes, they are evil, but as far as numbers in the tally, the wolves are a bigger issue. We currently have ten people, which means we have nine people, which means we have three wolves and six goodies (and then of course the Acolyte). If we go after the Acolyte toDay and succeed, we will be in the same position toMorrow, except worse after the Night's kill. If we go after a wolf and succeed, we improve our numbers, which, granted, will decrease over the Night. Consider, however, the fact that the werewolves could kill the Acolyte, or the Acolyte could target one of the wolves. Thus, our more pressing issue must be the wolves, as they are a cohesive (mostly) unit, whereas the Acolyte, while a definite threat, is one man/woman.
That is in fact a VERY GOOD point and I think the whole village should smack its head for not saying this aloud before. I wonder whether the WWs have been leading us by our noses like that all the time ("lynch the Acolyte!" - Nog, and now if Shasta is the Wolf, it would be the same), or if we are just really so dumb village. I wouldn't be surprised by the latter, but... well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sally
Considering that I've suspected Legate most of the game, and that his reaction to Steve's reveal was so bizarre, I'm hardly going to stop suspecting him. He is my most likely vote candidate toDay.
Wow, really? Now that is news to me. Since when?

I am not so very surprised that people suspect me, since it started already yesterDay, and of course many people started suspecting me only now, some of them no doubt out of evil intentions. I know Shasta started suspecting me rather suddenly only this morning, but that is understandable because, as I am aware, my suspicion of Steve's claim had caused many to start frowning upon me. But if somebody claims "I have been suspecting you all along..." These are rather strong words.

I would also urge those who have brains (which, I hope, are all of us, just some of them have currently evil intentions in them) to think of why they actually suspect me. If it is all based on "Freddy said that Joe said that Legate did not want to trust Steve, and I myself also recall reading him saying something like that, so it is probably true", then I would very much like to ask if it is enough for you to vote for me. I get the feeling many people have been consequently interpreting everything I've said in the worst possible light, with their eyes closed. I had said as much to Shasta, but that goes also for Eönwë who seemed to be convinced from the start of the Day that I am trying to do the worst (even claiming that I had wanted him to postpone revealing innocents with some evil intentions, even though I have not and I was the only one who had talked to him about it until very late), also I get the same feeling from Nate and some others (maybe Sally here).

The worst thing are blind innocents who only latch to some idea without being able to criticise it. I know that because I did the very same thing when I wanted to lynch Steve yesterDay. You are now doing the very same thing. So if I am lynched, remember that when other people start accusing you for it. If you want to lynch me, then at least try to find some honest reason for it, if you are innocent. If you can't, try not to fabricate, as it might also backfire on you later. Only WWs fabricate.

***

Random remark - I would very much like to hear Boro contribute to the general discussion again with something more than just remarks devoted to this or that particular debate with this or that player. It would help sorting thoughts on him, because I think he's been rather in the background lately due to this fact of being very "specifically aimed" only on some things.

Anyway, I might go to sleep soon... will be back to vote some short time before DL.

EDIT: x-ed since Sally
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:22 PM   #374
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-The fact that Zil is innocent is the reason I was looking at Boro. I mean, the hint seems to pretty explicitly say that Inzil was the hunting target, and the fact that Nog tried to shift it to Boro seems quite bad.
Interesting. It would, but does the hint really explicitely say that it is Inzil? I am still not getting the whole hint business...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
I thought so. You'd suspected me pretty strongly on Day 1. Then on Day 2, you dismissed me as a threat. When you revealed, it made sense. That's the reason I was so quick to trust you.
And I owe you apologies for the really strong suspicion, and for calling you weird, although... well, there was something weird about your behavior. But well, happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88 View Post
*Yes, and/or, because I think there's been enough concentration on the two of them, for me...I've had enough Legate/Shasta in one sitting. I would propose orchestrating double-lynch, if not for the very fact that all of you are flippin' mad today and it's making me mental. So, attempting to put together a double-lynch would drive me more bonkers than what it would actually be worth.
No, please, NO. Okay, if Shasta is a Wolf, it would be better, but... hmm. Now I am thinking (since most people don't trust me much and I might be lynched anyway) whether not to try it and in case Shasta turns out innocent, totally lynch Boro for orchestrating such a massacre of innocents. I am only not sure if it is worth it. Two deaths are really a lot (if it turned out we both were innocent). I mean, if I knew for sure that Shasta was a Wolf, I'd be willing to even go and sacrifice myself along with him (for the sake of more clarity in the village). But despite all my suspicion of him, I can't be sure, of course. And I really hate double-lynches.

Also, anyway, if we really did it, it doesn't mean letting Boro off the hook. Quite the opposite. I mean, such a lynch, even if Shasta was a Wolf, would serve the Wolves just as well as us, number-wise. (If not even better. Somebody with better math skills should calculate that.)

I wonder what people think about it.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:28 PM   #375
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Random remark - I would very much like to hear Boro contribute to the general discussion again with something more than just remarks devoted to this or that particular debate with this or that player. It would help sorting thoughts on him, because I think he's been rather in the background lately due to this fact of being very "specifically aimed" only on some things.
Rarely do I do general lists on everyone currently living. And no offense, but I'm not jumping through hoops for you and your thoughts. If I need to clarify anything I've said, fine, ask away. My thoughts on people might be too focused/set on only a few, but they should be clear enough. If I haven't commented on someone/some topic, it's either because I've got nothing to say that hasn't already been stated, it's not important enough to me, or I generally feel ok about the person/situation.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:33 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Boromir88 View Post
Rarely do I do general lists on everyone currently living. And no offense, but I'm not jumping through hoops for you and your thoughts. If I need to clarify anything I've said, fine, ask away. My thoughts on people might be too focused/set on only a few, but they should be clear enough. If I haven't commented on someone/some topic, it's either because I've got nothing to say that hasn't already been stated, it's not important enough to me, or I generally feel ok about the person/situation.
I think the problem is rather opposite - you speak about a few things, but in such a wordy manner that it's often difficult to follow. But asking... well, let's say, since me and Shasta seem to be the topic of the day, for example you could briefly state why do you suspect both of us? In a few words, few points would suffice. I won't probably argue back or stuff like that, I would just like to see your opinion on us summed up, since you say you'd prefer to start with us; also so that future generations can see it, if it comes to that. So:

1. What do you suspect about me so much that you are willing to give me your vote, why;
2. What do you suspect about Shasta so much that you are willing to give him your vote, why.

If it takes you long, I might go to sleep meanwhile, but I will read it at the most in the morning. Also, it is intended not just for me, but also for others to read.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:50 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
1. What do you suspect about me so much that you are willing to give me your vote, why;
2. What do you suspect about Shasta so much that you are willing to give him your vote, why.
You because your behavior, especially yesterday over Eonwe's reveal and when you were quite quick to call his first case against Nog bad/evil, for "painting Nog black." I kept telling myself yesterday "Is Nerwen sure she didn't add a cobbler? Because if there is one, it would be Legate."

Shasta, for his comment yesterday on how it looked like I was "bussing Nog's lynch." But I call the bull when I see it and Nog was spouting a lot of it yesterday, even before Eonwe revealed he was a wolf. And with Nog, Shasta should know Nog will try to intimidate you, so you have to be over-zealous and throw his aggression right back at him. And today...really do I have to say it?
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:13 PM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
No, please, NO. Okay, if Shasta is a Wolf, it would be better, but... hmm. Now I am thinking (since most people don't trust me much and I might be lynched anyway) whether not to try it and in case Shasta turns out innocent, totally lynch Boro for orchestrating such a massacre of innocents. I am only not sure if it is worth it. Two deaths are really a lot (if it turned out we both were innocent). I mean, if I knew for sure that Shasta was a Wolf, I'd be willing to even go and sacrifice myself along with him (for the sake of more clarity in the village). But despite all my suspicion of him, I can't be sure, of course. And I really hate double-lynches.
And relax. I wasn't being serious with that double lynch, but expressing my annoyance at both of you, and overall annoyance at this "Legate-Lottie-Shasta" "Lommy-sally-Shasta" spy-trifecta chatter today. Annoyed to the point where, at this time I couldn't care less if either you or Shasta were lynched, therefor you could both go. Give a few hours to have some hot chocolate, watch some guilty pleasure/trash and I'll be significantly less annoyed.
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #379
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I've got to vote early, so I'll go ahead and

++Legate

For the reasons stated in my earlier post, especially his reaction to Steve's reveal. Good lynching, everyone!
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:59 PM   #380
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Shasta Day 1

Smilies removed. This is not a comprehensive "everything he said" list, just some things that stood out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
so I think it's a bit strange that Legate continues going after Inzil with a point that he specifically mentioned wasn't a point against Inzil.
Casts a little suspicion onto Legate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Nogrod's #23 is a long, well-written post that doesn't really say much. For one, it's another "hate on random votes" post, and for another, it's his thoughts on the Acolyte. All well and good, but it seems he's replying to something Legate was using against Inzil at the time, which doesn't really fit.
A small point against Nog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
And in a bit of a turnaround, Inzil's #24 is another answer to Legate that's basically been the same as his previous answers. Could be a case of "talking too much yet saying nothing", but I still tend to think Legate is the fishier of the two.
Ok, so in the Acolyte debate of Legate and I he finds Legate "fishier" there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
In #29, Inzil mentions that Rikae agrees with him and then doesn't like the emptiness of his posts, which looks like an opportunistic kind of "hey, look, that's suspicious" move - except in the post he quotes, Rikae says she agrees with Legate, not Inzil. Interesting.
Says I was "opportunistic" when I pointed out what I thought was a contradiction on Rikae's part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
...What? You just got through basically reprimanding Inzil for discussion that doesn't accomplish anything, and now you're giving him a license to continue? That's.... awkward, Steve, very awkward indeed.
Scolds Eönwë for further questioning about the Acolyte business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Pitch is now the second person to basically say 'Yeah, Legate had a good point on Inzil' (Greenie was the first.) And that bothers me, since Legate specifically said that what he was saying was "nothing against Zil". It's also worth noting that though Pitch apparently agrees with Legate's point, he hangs back a bit with "whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong" - almost in a way that leaves him an out in case an Inzil lynch happens.
Brings some suspicion on Pitch. That's all from the same post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
If you're talking about when she blew up at Rikae, I tend to disagree here (what? Shasta disagrees with Nogrod?) And I tend to disagree with Boro, too, when he mentioned that "that's typical G55." I'm almost certain I've never seen G55 explode like that, and the post she made after to clarify what she was saying (indeed, that she felt like she had to clarify at all) looks suspicious to me.

Also, the fact that it's Nogrod, of all people, defending what seems to be an emotional outburst is an immediate red flag.
Attacks Nog for defending G55.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Okay... Lottie's post was pretty obviously a joke to me, given that it's Lottie (and given the wink smiley.) So you're thinking it's Lottie, not Inzil who looks weird there? But I thought you were just thinking it was Inzil (see above)? If that's the case, then you look like you're scrambling to make the same evidence fit a different theory now that your first one's been debunked, if that makes sense. Right now, that looks bad.
This was against Lommy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
In Legate's #68 (and, apparently, in his list from earlier, as I think that's where Eonwe got his quote), he apparently legitimately suspects Inzil? Which, then, looks a bit like a Legatewolf going "Hey, people bought that? Okay, let's go with it!"
More suspicion on Legate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
...You're kidding. Who are you and what have you done with Nogrod?! That's so unlike what you'd normally say that I'm almost forced to look for a reason why you'd be protecting G55.
And more suspicion on Nog.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Well... in Inzil's post here -

- he pretty well answers that, in my opinion. So why mention it yet again? Legate, you do realize you've been doing basically the same thing as what you say Inzil's been doing, right?
Takes Legate to task about suspecting me for supposedly not answering him about the Acolyte deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Also, Inzil at #96 - all the talk about you apparently not just posting "empty posts" and you post something like this? Man...
This was the post he was talking about. I thought he was really reaching in calling that "empty".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
He's explained himself twice. I find it interesting that you missed both instances, and I find it even more interesting that you're finding Inzil this suspicious right after A) he starts getting votes (Rikae's in particular) and B) he votes for you.
Doesn't like Eönwë's suspicions of me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Leaning Very Innocent:
Shasta - Duh.

Leaning Innocent:
Boro - Two major reasons: one, I agree with him regarding G55; two, he's getting what seems to be a rather large amount of suspicion from people I'm currently suspicious of.

Rikae - I debated with myself for a bit before putting her here, instead of "No read", because she has been posting. It may be that her posts stick out less in my mind because they aren't gigantic walls of text; everything she's said thus far looks fairly ship-shape. I don't know that I agree with her vote, but she hasn't said anything that's made me think her overtly suspicious.

Pitch - Nothing Pitch has done today has really set off any alarm bells for me. Even though he's said a fair bit today, he almost went under the radar for me because I just remember him saying a fair bit without actually remembering much of the content - except when he argued a bit with Nogrod. I remember concentrating on that part especially.

Lottie - Like Boro, has been taking some heat from other people I find more suspicious. She's also said quite a bit that I happen to agree with. I don't find her suspicious at the moment.

Leaning Worse than Innocent, Better than Guilty:
Steve - Was tending to think him more innocent than not until his most recent post against Inzil. A lot about that post looks odd, especially the timing of it.

Greenie - Not a lot here to go on, but more than anyone in the "Not Leaning at All" category. I don't really agree with her vote.

Inzil - I'm not certain that he's an innocent. That said, there are some indicators that he was the target of a witchhunt today, for good or ill (I'm leaning ill, myself.)

Leaning Guilty:
G55 - I was fine with her until she exploded earlier. After that, I felt like her clarification of said explosion was basically used to make people more confident of her innocence ("A wolf wouldn't act like that," etc).

Lommy - I was on the same page with her regarding the Lottie/Inzil Case of the Ambiguous Posts until Inzil mentioned that he was talking about something completely different. I thought that was the end of it until Lommy began talking about ways that that made Lottie look bad in a way that almost looked like she was looking for support.

Nogrod - I admit, most of the reason he's in this category is his apparent connection to G55, whom I also find suspicious. His reaction to and subsequent defense of her was so incredibly counter to normal Nogrod that I just can't see that being his real thoughts on the matter.

Legate - The apparent leader of what has looked to me like a witchhunt on Inzil. Apparently missed it the first time Inzil explained himself, and hasn't posted since he explained it the second time. Still, the fact that he mentioned in the beginning that what he was saying wasn't a point against Inzil, and didn't change his mind until a fair number of people seemed to share his ideas, looks bad to me.

Not Leaning at All:
Sally
Pomegranate
Eruhen
Bom


I will likely end up voting someone in the "Guilty" category today.
Ok, so he has me in the middle category with Steve, and both Nog and Legate in the worst section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
I'll comment on the rest momentarily, but I want to get this thought out there as quickly as possible to give everyone time to consider - I would, personally, be not at all averse to lynching Bom. Think about it for a second - why, even beyond Legate's thought (which is currently the prevailing mood, sad as it is to say), I can nearly guarantee that later, down the road, someone will say "man I wish we could lynch Bom, but we can't now, it's too late in the game." Because, as I recall, Bom does this quite a bit, and people say exactly what has been said thus far - that is, chastising him for it but not really doing anything about it. Because the general opinion is either "oh that's just Bom" or "a wolf wouldn't do that, oh well."

So if people want to lynch Bom, I'm all for it. It's about time our threat of "participate or face a lynch" actually had some bite to it.
Out of nowhere decides lynching Bom is a good option. As I think I said before, I can see an innocent Shasta doing this, but it was a bad idea, and good cover for a baddie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
It looks odd that it's only after you start getting suspected and voted that you suddenly suspect Inzil as much as you did in that post. If you just woke up to find that, it's less odd (I honestly have no idea what timezone you're in, haha.)


That's precisely the point!


That's fair. But I'm not sure you realize that Lottie does that all the time. Again, that's getting into playstyle differences. But it's a point regardless.


That line has since been explained. See Lommy and Zil's conversation.

And another point I was trying to make. Why should this kind of behavior be acceptable from anyone, no matter who? And you can "strongly discourage" all you like - it's not going to change anything. It never has.


No, I understood that. I was just wondering if you saw that every time Inzil answered with the same answer, you responded again with the same question.


Uh-huh, and that leads back to the "witchhunt" I was mentioning earlier. Just what explanation would have satisfied you? Because it looks to me like you were prepared to be dissatisfied by anything Inzil said.
He defends me from Legate and Eönwë. Thinks I'm the would-be victim of a "witch hunt".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
No, it'd be a wake-up call. No one should be allowed to slip through without participating and voting. People can say "oh, well, they didn't deserve to win" all they like when someone who just floats through the game ends up living to the end (because if they're wolves no one wants to lynch them because of lack of evidence and if they're innocent the wolves won't kill them because they're not doing anything) - it doesn't change the facts that they won, and we let them by allowing them to do so.
Defends his wanting to lynch Bom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Well, with Lommy looking a little better now that I know where she was coming from re: Lottie, I'm going to put my money (or in this case, vote) where my mouth is.

++Bom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
You're right, Lommy, it is a little harsh. However, I, personally, feel like it's something that has to happen at least once, or nothing will ever change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
It's mean regardless of what I am. I know that. And I'm sure I'll change my tune once Bom proves that he's capable of actually participating in a game he signs up for. That doesn't really change anything.
Has no apparent regrets about voting for Bom. This seems fairly in character for an innocent Shasta.

Hmm. I don't know. He certainly wasn't shy about pointing accusations at people. then again, restraint really isn't Shasta's style.

Just on the basis on Day 1, I'd be inclined to think him innocent, or at least not a Spy.
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:29 PM   #381
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Shasta Day 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Note - for this game it's likely I'll only be active during the latter half of the Day, as Sally said - the DL is 6 am my time, so yeah.

In any case, I'll comment on the most recent happenings real fast before I go back and do a post-by-post commentary.

Eonwe - Seer
Nog - Wolf
Inzil - Acolyte

Seriously? Guys. Look at the Eruhen kill. It's pretty clear at this point that the Acolyte, if not a traditional werebear, at least has the power to kill by himself (I say him because Nog being a wolf doesn't mean his points about Inzil being the Acolyte aren't valid - I've thought so myself since yesterday, as did Rikae apparently).

Nog is a wolf. Fine. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynching one wolf out of four isn't going to have any short-term effects - if we lynch Inzil (who clearly, at this point, doesn't have the best interests of the village in mind), we drop the number of kills per night to one.

++Inzil
After Steve's reveal, Shasta votes for me, saying he thought I was the Acolyte since the previous Day. He's willing to vote for me over a probable Spy Day 2, yet Day 1 he had me in his "middle" category of suspicion and voted for Bom. He said I might be the target of a witch hunt then. I have a serious problem with this inconsistency. It looks like a possible attempt by a ShastaSpy to save a mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
We know it kills people. I think that's quite enough.
Again, we don't know what the Acolyte does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
However, I didn't even consider a double-lynch idea. That would solve the conundrum quite nicely. Who's left to vote? Can we pull it off?
Thinks now about a double lynch of me and Nog. What really made me suspicious about Shasta wanting to get me was that he had no certainty I was the Acolyte, or whether the Acolyte was definitely evil.

It doesn't make sense to me still how an innocent could consider the Acolyte more worthy of killing than a wolf, even if it were certain who the Acolyte was.

This makes Shasta look evil.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:03 PM   #382
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Shasta Day 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
I thought the narration was pretty clear on that fact, myself. Unless a "shadowy figure" isn't supposed to be suspicious.


1. Inzil was hinting at something during Day 1. If you'll remember, Rikae mentioned it quite blatantly.

2. Nog's points about it. The fact that he was a wolf doesn't really matter - the Acolyte doesn't count for the innocents or the wolves; plus, every indication was that the Acolyte was some type of Werebear, with the Eruhen kill. Wolves have an interest in getting rid of the Werebear - besides that the Werebear could kill them at night, something they aren't usually worried about, the Wolves and Werebear traditionally cannot win together. I don't think Nog's points about Inzil being the Acolyte should be discounted just because he was a wolf.

3. (and really the best point) - He hasn't denied it. Every time the subject has gotten a little too close to someone asking him directly, Inzil has either avoided the question or changed the subject.
So Shasta's willing to listen to a known Spy, who really was the one who started the ball rolling that I must be the Acolyte. And his third "point", that I hadn't denied it, is utter rubbish. Pitch mentioned that too, I think. What would it really have gained me? It's like telling someone they must be a wolf, then when they don't come right out and say they're innocent, saying "See? A real innocent would have proclaimed they were good!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Now then, what was so scary about wanting to double lynch Nog (a Seer-dreamt wolf) and Inzil (who I'm convinced is the Acolyte, and want to lynch)? Let's look at the votes from yesterday -

When I voted Inzil, Nog had 5 votes. Therefore, even if every person after me had voted Inzil, Nog would still have been lynched along with him.

Which, coincidentally, renders this point by Legate -

- utter bollocks, if you'll pardon the saying. Sure, the other three wolves could have voted Eonwe. That would just have required manipulation of the space-time continuum (at the point Legate said this, it was just him and Pitch left to vote), and would have put Eonwe at 5 and Nog at 6. Brilliant!
Again: There was no way to know I was the Acolyte. He was willing to gamble on killing me rather than lynch Nog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Conclusions from above - I think Inzil is the Acolyte, I would ideally like to get rid of him before he can kill again, and some things Legate have said have been so far off the mark and unlike how I know Legate to act that it's basically Nog vol. II to my eyes at the moment.
So he wants to kill me, but thinks Legate suspicious too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Subtle? I thought I was being quite blatant. I don't trust the Acolyte, and I don't think anyone else should. Good try, Boro.

And another thing. Your post that was basically 'you just look so suspicious Nog' was way more over-the-top than anything I've said thus far. The similarity between that and how I remember Glirdan being was too uncanny for me not to mention it. You're really reaching incredibly far here.
Some suspicion on Boro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Well, it wasn't a modkill (Nerwen would have said so) and it wasn't a wolf kill (that was Rikae in the narration), so...? I think that's pretty clear.
He was incorrect on this, as pointed out by Steve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Cool. I don't believe you, but cool. Then what were you really doing Day 1?
This in response to my exasperatingly saying point-blank I wasn't the Acolyte. I'm sure he would have believed had I said that Day 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
"Don't like" it all you wish. I'm going to keep doing it. Someone has to, because apparently no one's worried that's it's not just wolves killing us but me. Therefore, while I'm still going to be looking for wolves, I'm likely going to continue pushing an Inzil lynch.
Says right out that he wants me lynched over wolves. Despite the fact that we don't know what the Acolyte really does, and we do know what the Spies do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Now I'm really getting annoyed. Apparently everything I say or do is going to be suspicious to someone. Also, Pitch, this is crap. Eonwe wasn't that suspected, there was no reason for an Eonwe-wolf to self-destruct by fake-revealing on D2. Therefore, he was legit, his dream on Nog was legit, and at the time it was very likely (to me, apparently, but not to anyone else) that there was going to, again, be a second kill on N2, which I wanted to prevent. This bit about "wolves concocting an emergency strategy" is rubbish, as evidenced by the nine votes on Nog yesterday.
I keep coming back to the point that he had no concrete evidence that I was the Acolyte.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
While going back and looking at Legate, I found this -


- in regards to whether Eonwe should reveal his ordo. Now, my overall reaction to Legate is still that he seems extremely fishy, but this is actually an interesting point, and one that looks fairly innocent, actually.

The main reason it caught my eye, actually, is how Legate can post well-thought-out points like this and at the same time be as wildly off-kilter as he has been? My overall conclusion on this is while the point makes him look slightly better, the dichotomy makes him look worse.
This looks like trying to keep the door open on Legate for a potential lynch, while leaving other options as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Boro, your post is based entirely around the fact that you think I was saying Nog was being reasonable (thus implying that I was defending him.) If you look back, you'll see that I fully believed Eonwe that Nog was a wolf - I simply thought I would try and prevent someone I thought had killing powers from killing again. What's better, two kills per night or one? You're going far, far out of your way to misrepresent me here and I don't like it one bit.

And I'm not "fixated" on the Acolyte. There's no "rampage". I keep bringing up the subject because NO ONE ELSE WILL. Seriously, everyone but me thus far has basically said "oh well we don't know the Acolyte isn't playing for the good team" and has basically left it there and I think that's wrong. The Acolyte doesn't count for innocents or wolves in the tally - how likely is it the Acolyte can only win by himself? Answer: pretty likely.

But fine. If the only response I'm going to get is "Shasta's suspicious for talking about the Acolyte" then I'll drop the subject completely. I won't even say "told you so" when the Acolyte wins by themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
The narrative for N1 appears to support that Eruhen was killed by someone, not modkilled.

Oh, right. My bad. Shutting up.
This apparent frustration looks genuine on the surface, but it really doesn't look like something that should have merited such a reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
I'm aware of that. Which is why I'm still looking for spies/wolves. But I still think the Acolyte is a greater threat than people are making him out to be. I suppose it's a bit like the cobbler debate - do you lynch a known cobbler, or do you keep hunting for wolves?
And once again, he didn't know anything about who the Acolyte was. You know, this whole debate would be different if, say, a Seer had outed the Acolyte.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
I already pointed out how much rubbish this point is. In fact, since I voted Inzil, I'd be very interested to hear how I supposedly threatened Eonwe yesterday.

I don't want to think I'm basically OMGUSing Legate here - I might be, certainly, but he's seemed completely (not a bit, not some, pretty much completely) off to me since the beginning.
What does OMGUS mean again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Wrong. I never said I wanted to lynch Eonwe, in fact I never mentioned him in the slightest. Why would I want to lynch the Seer, in any case? Yes, I mentioned that a double lynch of Inzil and Nog might be a good idea, after someone mentioned it (I'd originally forgotten about double lynches at all), but how would that have "left uncertainty"? Nog would have been just as dead. Your other point is still not very good - I already gave you the numbers to prove that even if it had been possible for the wolves to double-lynch Eonwe, they all would have been revealed after that and the game would be over! See, Legate, you keep trying to make this into a reason that I'm suspicious and it's just not working. That's what I mean about how completely off you are. I didn't mean to insult you or anything, if that's what you thought (as your last comment leads me to believe.)
He's got a point here in that Legate was misrepresenting him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
I sense the beginnings of a witchhunt, but fine, I'll answer.

I had originally forgotten about the fact that we could double lynch - I wanted Zil gone over Nog because I felt both were bad for the innocents, but killing Inzil would have dropped the nightkills from two to one (I still thought the Acolyte was going to kill the next night.) Then, after I voted, the idea of a double lynch was mentioned, which I thought was a fine idea - kill both with one lynch.

Sidenote, Legate - it was not going to be very easy to make a double-lynch all by my lonesome, as you're implying. I knew Nog had four or five votes by then and I knew no one else had voted Inzil, but I figured it was worth a shot, and if I didn't manage it then Nog would be lynched anyway and that'd be one baddie down.

Had it been possible, yes. Once Lommy voted right after me, though, I didn't really think it was possible. Still, since there wasn't a vote tally up and I wasn't sure how many more votes were coming in, I felt like there was still a chance and I urged people to consider it.

Seriously? We'd be getting rid of a wolf and the Acolyte, who I thought (and still think) was dangerous.

If you're asking me this, then you're implying there wasn't a way to achieve that, which means your point about me endangering Eonwe, is, like I said, pretty leaky. That said, I'll answer - it would have required the cooperation of the people after me to vote; like I said, once Lommy voted I figured the chances were slim, but there was no harm in trying.

What about it? In my view, either way we were getting rid of someone who was a danger to the village. If Nog was lynched, fine - we'd gotten rid of a wolf. If Zil went instead, that was fine too - that'd be the end of the Acolyte and we could lynch Nog the next day; if Eonwe had managed to find another wolf with his dream, we could just double-lynch them, so we weren't even losing any time.

Who do I suspect? You, currently. Boro, because I think he was bussing Nog. Inzil I still suspect of Acolyte-ism, but I don't think he's a wolf, unless his "lynch me instead of Eonwe" yesterday was just a very clever wolf-front. I still have some suspicions of Lommy as well.
All that was in response to Legate. I'm inclined to think Shasta looks a bit better for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
Nogrod on Lommy

Day 1, Nogrod barely mentions Lommy at all. He mentions her in passing in a post on Pitch and another on Lottie, then near the end of the day he says this -

and then in #122 he defends her.

What he's defending her against here is the votes she got from Eruhen (he calls it "bandwagoning in major scale" and G55 ("possible bandwagon".) It's interesting to note that most of what this post is about, seemingly, is less defense of Lommy and more a changing of his attitudes toward G55, who he started the Day very trusting of. The two (defense of Lommy and early defense of G55) actually look rather similar.

And that's all Nogrod says about Lommy on Day 1.

Day 2, Nog's #168:

Again, more a justification of his suspicion of G55 than anything about Lommy. The only thing a little bit interesting here is that last comment, which is basically a tacit endorsement of what Lommy said earlier. I suppose it could be a way to subtly reinforce good vibes about Lommy, but it's such a small thing that I doubt it.

Here he's answering Pitch about the Bom lynch, and mentions that he had no reason to vote for Lommy as he had nothing against her. And he hasn't, so that's okay.

Nog's #201 is in answer to a post of Lommy's from earlier, and he's very neutral about it, just basically responding to something she said rather than attacking her or defending her at all.

A short quote from #228:

Again in response to G55. Mentions again that Lommy was going to be bandwagoned.


This is what Nog had to say about Lommy from his list post, #234, right after Eonwe's reveal. Again, very neutral, nothing for or against.

And then he doesn't mention her again after that.

So, conclusions - well, there aren't really very many to be drawn here, to be honest. Nog barely mentioned Lommy, and when he did he was either kinda defensive or completely neutral. I suppose it could be a giant case of distancing, but there's not really anything to support that.
Looks for links between Lommy and Nog. Apparently doesn't see any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
"Defensive." "Jumpy." "Making stuff up." What did I tell you? Witchhunt. All me answering your questions did was give you more fodder for your witchhunt against me, because all you've mentioned are opinions that are designed to look like hard suspicions. Look at this -

(in regards to this-)

Now, you say this sounds fabricated. Obviously there's nothing I can say to that, since it's not fabricated. But it gives you an easy way to continue to suspect me, doesn't it?

I'm going to skip over all the bit about the Acolyte because it's clear that, whether you're innocent or evil, we just flat are not going to agree where he's concerned.


This is just the same point, restated in order to make it look like you have a bigger argument against me than you already do. Also, I said basically the same thing earlier in the day when I replied to Pom, so there's further proof I didn't make it all up just now.
All that was also in response to Legate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post
*throws hands up*

I'm done talking for now. I'm making myself far too easy for the wolves to lynch, at this point.
Now seems convinced he's going to be bandwaggoned.

Conclusions? Well...I don't trust him in the slightest, but I don't know if I find him or Legate (who I don't have time to analyze) more worthy of a vote. I feel fairly good about one of the twain being evil, and at any rate I haven't really looked closely at anyone else.

I'll have to vote very soon. Maybe I can make up my mind as I brush my teeth.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:26 PM   #383
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Ok. Decision time.

I'll go with

++Shasta

I do have some notable issues with Legate, but my wariness of Shasta really stems from his inconsistency from thinking me the victim of a "witch hunt" on Day 1, to saying on Day 2 that he'd thought me the Acolyte since then, though he voted for Bom. I hope I'm right.

Good luck, village!
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:25 AM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
That is in fact a VERY GOOD point and I think the whole village should smack its head for not saying this aloud before. I wonder whether the WWs have been leading us by our noses like that all the time ("lynch the Acolyte!" - Nog, and now if Shasta is the Wolf, it would be the same), or if we are just really so dumb village. I wouldn't be surprised by the latter, but... well.
Actually, Dun (and myself, to a far lesser extent) has been saying how we shouldn't focus too much on the Acolyte, and that's exactly why other people have been suspecting him. (Not me. I'm a free thinker, see, and suspected him all on my own.) And thank you. It is a good point. Don't sound so surprised.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
Wow, really? Now that is news to me. Since when?

I am not so very surprised that people suspect me, since it started already yesterDay, and of course many people started suspecting me only now, some of them no doubt out of evil intentions. I know Shasta started suspecting me rather suddenly only this morning, but that is understandable because, as I am aware, my suspicion of Steve's claim had caused many to start frowning upon me. But if somebody claims "I have been suspecting you all along..." These are rather strong words.
I never said I suspected you all along. I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by me, Sally, whose name starts with an uppercase letter, thank you very much, children
Considering that I've suspected Legate most of the game, and that his reaction to Steve's reveal was so bizarre, I'm hardly going to stop suspecting him. He is my most likely vote candidate toDay.
Bolding mine, as is the victory. "Most of the game" and "all along" are two vastly different things, pet.


Huh. Well, that's unfortunate. I seem to have taken an accidental nap for a bit there, and I'm still quite sleepy. Considering that I doubt I'd wake up again in time to vote, I should just vote now, so that I might get some sleep.

++Legate

If you're shocked, try to hide it.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Don't think that this changes my mind
Just 'cause our dear Legate was kind
I still trust him least
Aye, he's yet a beast
And thus we must leave him behind


(Sleeping now. Dealing with the idiocy of Dun being innocent later. Rest in pieces*, Steve, and thanks for all your help.)

*Note for the overzealous non-native (or non-sarcastic) speaker: Just pun and games there.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:44 AM   #385
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Okay, fine, Inzil's an ordo. Fair enough. But you aren't allowed to suspect someone for thinking you were claiming something when you were acting like you were claiming something (and don't try to deny that, Inzil, it's all over your D1 actions.)

Moving on -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro
Shasta, for his comment yesterday on how it looked like I was "bussing Nog's lynch." But I call the bull when I see it and Nog was spouting a lot of it yesterday, even before Eonwe revealed he was a wolf. And with Nog, Shasta should know Nog will try to intimidate you, so you have to be over-zealous and throw his aggression right back at him. And today...really do I have to say it?
Your post was completely over the top, even for you. The wording just seemed too bloodthirsty for me not to mention it. And yes, you do - because as far as I can see, the only reason anyone suspects me today is because I'm more concerned about the Acolyte than anyone else. So you definitely just look like you're bandwagoning one of the top suspects of the Day here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
After Steve's reveal, Shasta votes for me, saying he thought I was the Acolyte since the previous Day. He's willing to vote for me over a probable Spy Day 2, yet Day 1 he had me in his "middle" category of suspicion and voted for Bom. He said I might be the target of a witch hunt then. I have a serious problem with this inconsistency. It looks like a possible attempt by a ShastaSpy to save a mate.
You really think, if I was a wolf, I had a shot at saving the Seer-dreamt Nogrod yesterday after he already had five votes against him? You vastly overestimate my skills, I'm afraid. Or you think I'm an idiot. Either or.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
It doesn't make sense to me still how an innocent could consider the Acolyte more worthy of killing than a wolf, even if it were certain who the Acolyte was.
Sigh. I will try to explain this one more time and then I'm dropping the subject entirely.

From my point of view, the Acolyte had killed someone N1, along with the wolves. And do not give me that rubbish about "oh it might have been a modkill, Nerwen said she wouldn't tell us." If it were a modkill, she would have told us. I don't think I've ever seen a mod not tell us if someone was modkilled, let alone the person themselves apologizing for having to drop over on the admin thread. It was an Acolyte-kill, end of discussion. Now then. If the Acolyte killed on N1, to my mind that meant they were at least some form of Werebear, and would more likely than not be killing again. Given the high number of wolves in the village, it meant that the game would end that much faster if there were consistenly going to be more than one kill per night, unless the Bear happened to start hitting wolves. I didn't want to take that chance, so I wanted to remove the possibility of more than one kill per Night.

I genuinely don't know how to make it any clearer than that. If after reading this you still suspect me for it, then I'm never going to get through to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
And his third "point", that I hadn't denied it, is utter rubbish.
It wasn't the greatest, but it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be, either. My thinking was that since you hadn't denied it explicitly, but hadn't come out and claimed either, then perhaps you were getting around a "forbidden to claim" rule. We've seen them before, I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
What does OMGUS mean again?
"Oh my gosh, you suck." Used when someone votes or suspects someone else based at least partly on the fact that they were suspected by that same person.

Most of the rest of this post is the exact same point, reiterated ad infinitum, that I want (and still would like, actually) the Acolyte dead and that I couldn't be 100% positive it was Inzil. I've gone over and gone over this point and I'm done with it.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:47 AM   #386
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Anyway, time to vote.

++Legate

Granted, part of this vote is self-preservation, but I do actually suspect him. Some of the points he's tried to make are just too far off-the-wall wrong for innocent!Legate to make.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:59 AM   #387
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Sorry for coming back so late - had dinner with my parents and was too tired afterwards. Catching up now.

So far I've got to the point where Legate accuses Shasta for threatening Eönwë with his double lynch proposal. Excuse me, but it wasn't Shasta who was "rather convinced, now thinking about it more and more, that Eönwë is just fake" yesterDay (#236) and toyed with the question whether it would be OK to lynch him, and this does look very much like Legate is trying to deflect suspicion of himself for his reaction to Eönwë's reveal on Shasta.

(Not that I think a double lynch would have been a splendid idea btw, but it actually would have been better than the original proposal to lynch Zil first and Nog later, as it would at least have got a wolf lynched yesterDay.)

Reading on.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:14 AM   #388
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I'm most likely voting Legate toDay, but I think first I'm going to look through all his posts- he's made it hard though, having the highest post count by quite a bit.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:15 AM   #389
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And yes, I have been entertaining the idea of a Legate-Shasta double-lynch, but I don't know if we can afford it.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:49 AM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sallywhosenamebeginswithanuppercaseletterunlikeher usernamewhichbeginswithalower
So, if you go with the assumption that the Acolyte kills every Night, yes, they are evil, but as far as numbers in the tally, the wolves are a bigger issue. We currently have ten people, which means we have nine people, which means we have three wolves and six goodies (and then of course the Acolyte). If we go after the Acolyte toDay and succeed, we will be in the same position toMorrow, except worse after the Night's kill. If we go after a wolf and succeed, we improve our numbers, which, granted, will decrease over the Night. Consider, however, the fact that the werewolves could kill the Acolyte, or the Acolyte could target one of the wolves. Thus, our more pressing issue must be the wolves, as they are a cohesive (mostly) unit, whereas the Acolyte, while a definite threat, is one man/woman.
This is sound reasoning.

But Sally, while you're in such a reasonable mode, can you explain this thing you said yesterDay:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally #266
Steve's reveal is in line with my own thoughts (and if he's lying, as previously mentioned, I can kill him, which is equally fun).
Why the singular and "kill", not "lynch"?
(No, before you get upset, I'm not saying you're the Acolyte, I'm saying you've been toying with the role, and I can't see why you should do that while insisting that the A. is evil.)
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:05 AM   #391
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Gah, this game is crazy. I can very much realte with the sentiment that it'd be nice to double-lynch Shasta and Legate, but I also have sort of last-minute doubts. They are both acting so crazy that what if they're both innocent and the remaining wolves are, say, Pom, Pitch and Sally? Ugh. I'm thinking of going through what everybody said Nog, as a sort of pair for Legate's analysis, and hoping it would give us some hints.

edit: xed with Pitch
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:08 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Eönwë View Post
Ok, so it's about time to reveal who the Ordo is.

This will probably shock most of you, but the answer is... Inzil!
Thank you, that simplifies things.

But tell me one thing: if you already dreamed Nog on Night 1 and knew from the beginning that he was a wolf, why on Earth did you join his and Shasta's "lynch Bom" initiative?

I fully understand that you didn't attack him on Day 1, but to actually vote with a known wolf against an unknown?
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:16 AM   #393
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Lommy pretty much read my mind. I was thinking of reading at least Pitch - I don't know why everyone keeps calling him a submarine when he's been reasonably active all game - certainly more active than some others, including myself.

As for the topic of the Day - I think Shasta looks more innocent than wolf, actually. I know a Shastawolf can get pretty bold, but this game he'd be insane. (Whoops. Excessive use of italics. Lommy will have my head for this! ) Legate started reminding me of Nog, actually, in the martyr-ish post where he pretty much says everyone suspecting him is either a wolf or blind. And that he even considers Boro's half-hearted double-lynch idea is just - odd.


EDIT: x-ed with Pitch
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:26 AM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
This apparent frustration looks genuine on the surface, but it really doesn't look like something that should have merited such a reaction.
A quick note before I forget; Zil, I think we're on dangerous waters if we try to assess whether some (emotional) reaction is proportionate or not. People react in such different ways, and what's more, emotional reactions don't follow a logic so evaluating them logically is just not very valid.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:44 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by satansaloser2005 View Post
Bolding mine, as is the victory. "Most of the game" and "all along" are two vastly different things, pet.
Since when is this "most of the game", anyway? "Most" means "more than the rest", obviously, so definitely more than 50% of the time, if you want to put it like that. You did not bother to answer "since when" it was, then, if not "all" the time; it wouldn't have harmed you (if it is true). I wonder if I should start doubting you as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
Gah, this game is crazy. I can very much realte with the sentiment that it'd be nice to double-lynch Shasta and Legate, but I also have sort of last-minute doubts. They are both acting so crazy that what if they're both innocent and the remaining wolves are, say, Pom, Pitch and Sally? Ugh. I'm thinking of going through what everybody said Nog, as a sort of pair for Legate's analysis, and hoping it would give us some hints.
Just a remark too - not sure if this is innocent Lommy (because it sounds completely like her) or evil Lommy trying to sound like innocent Lommy.

Zil's analysis of Shasta is very good, I suggest you people consider it (also in case I am no longer here toMorrow and he is).

Also, I believe the Acolyte is innocent in this game: the most plausible theory this far is that the Acolyte had to push somebody from the window at some point (maybe on Night 2, maybe on whenever they chose), and took that person's role. Eruhen was the ordo, so now the Acolyte would be just one of us. I think it makes perfect sense.

If it is last words, then:

Shasta looks bad, Boro also somewhat. If I am lynched, suggest keeping eye on them still.

Also definitely worth checking: Greenie, who is somehow sneakily drifting on the bottom, while casting the "right" (read: Steve before he proclaimed himself to be the Seer, yet if she was a Wolf, she could know he was innocent and could have recognized his really strong Nog-crusade as a Seer heading for a known Wolf; or now joining the bandwagon against me with the very slow steady slight steps by calling Shasta "too insane to be a Wolf", which hurts my feelings, since I believe if anyone did anything insane here, it was me).

Not sure about Lommy, slightly less sure about Sally than before. Others either go grey or innocent (our "knowns").

EDIT: x-ed with one Greenie
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:52 AM   #396
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Greenie: What happened to your vote-analysis?
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:52 AM   #397
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Well, I think it is clear whom I shall vote toDay in any case,

++Shasta

The tally this far, for the easy record:

Lottie => Legate
Inzil => Shasta
Sally => Legate (2)
Shasta => Legate (3)
Legate => Shasta (2)

Will be leaving the computer soon, but village, good luck to you still; and hope that in case you lynch me (although I would prefer not), you'd at least focus on the other targets with clearer mind. As we say in Khand, if only death can pay for life...

EDIT: x-ed with Nate
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:55 AM   #398
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People on Nogrod, Day1

Lottie doesn’t approve of Nog’s unoriginal random vote rant (#34). Later, she argues about random- vote rants with him (#83). Later, she makes a clarification about this to G55 (#95).

Pitch discusses the acolyte with Nog (#38). Later, he defends himself rather sharply against his accusations (#75). Defends/clarifies Lottie to him in (#77).

Legate makes a list and is not worried about Nog who looks like his “classic self” (#44). He also defends his and Nog’s random vote rants in relation to Bom’s vote (#117). He “thanks” Nog for bringing up G55’s name in the lynch discussion (#125).

Lommy wonders about Legate and Nog echoing her random vote rant (#51). In a list, she says he looks like “typical innocent Nogrod, almost too much so” (#57). Agrees and disagrees with his attack on G55 (#126).

Boro defends himself against Nog (#76).

Pom loves Nog’s phrasing and thinks he looks genuine despite a style she’s not familiar with (#80). Clarifies this later upon request (#131).

Shasta calls an early post of Nog’s well-written but empty (#109). Next, he disagrees with Nog’s defense of G55’s emotinal outburst and calls Nog’s behaviour in the issue a red flag. He thinks Nog is very unlike himself and thus suspicious, and he also talks about him/ replies to him about a few other things (all of this in #110). Makes a list and has Nog leaning guilty, admittedly mostly because of his relation with G55 (#112).

No mention about Nog: Greenie and Sally.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:59 AM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pom
Greenie: What happened to your vote-analysis?
Err - it kind of died. Meaning, I didn't have the time for it yesterDay after all, and woke up a bit too late to do it toDay. Now halfway through a Pitchalysis, hope to finish at least that before DL!
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:00 AM   #400
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One hour to go. Chose well, my loyal subjects.

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