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Old 12-31-2003, 03:55 PM   #1
Angadraug
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Tolkien Shelob's Sting?

I was just wondering how Shelob's stinger actually stung Frodo. Since he was wearing mithril shouldn't it have been blocked? I mean in the FOTR the cave troll's spear didn't penetrate so how did her stinger? I can see him getting stung if he hit him in the neck or something but in the movie he's hit right in the chest, which the mithril covers.
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:03 PM   #2
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Sting

ooh- I forgot about the mithril! Maybe the stinger was so thin that it made it between the rings. but I dont think that's likely. Or the stinger might have gone through one of the spaces between where he fastened it up, like in the front where there are the hooks where you close it. If the seams didn't overlap, it might have been able to go between them. Or it could be the movie messing up again. which is very probable. <p>[ 5:06 PM December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Lady Snickerdoodle ]
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:13 PM   #3
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Sting

Hi, <B>Angadraug</B>!<BR>I've got a bit of a discussion on Mr. Baggins' many scars, including Shelob's Sting going on this thread: <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002585" TARGET=_blank>Branded in the Tower of Cirith Ungol?</A> . There I decided for myself that Shelob's sting must have come from the front and above, so as to get around the mithril vest. It is still under debate though! <P>Cheers!<BR>Lyta
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:22 PM   #4
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Sting

In answer to your confusion Angadraug, he wasn't wearing the mithril coat, in the film version, his upper half was naked (no ithril) in the book he was fully naked(no mithril), so you see, it wasn't a matter of, 'how did shelob pierce the mithril' because he wasn't wearing it in either version. The book or the film.
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:32 PM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In answer to your confusion Angadraug, he wasn't wearing the mithril coat, in the film version, his upper half was naked (no ithril) in the book he was fully naked(no mithril<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But he was wearing the mithril shirt at the time of Shelob's sting. <P> In answer to your question, Angadraug, just take a look at Shelob & Sam's scirmish. <P>* Shelob missed him 3 times, all three times her 'stinger' was buried very deeply in the ground. <P>* Remembering that, it's not to much of a suprise that it got past his shirt, it's a wonder that Frodo wasn't scewered by it!<P> Also, remember, that he was only stung on the back of the neck in the books, so this an invention of Mr. Jackson's, who's inventions sometimes conquerdict (however you spell it ) eachother.
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:40 PM   #6
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Sting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In answer to your confusion Angadraug, he wasn't wearing the mithril coat, in the film version, his upper half was naked (no ithril) in the book he was fully naked(no mithril)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't think this really works- explain how he got that way? I thought his clothes and other stuff were taken only after the orcs captured him, and if he went in through shelob's tunnel first, the orcs couldn't have got to him until later. Or am I getting mixed up again..?
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:41 PM   #7
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Sting

Darn... I just posted something like this in the Branded at Cirith Ungol thread. And I thought I was being origional... <BR>I think It was probably an editing slip up, though. Even if Shelob's sting did get through the mithril, it was too thick to go through without damaging it, and in the Cirith Ungol scene the mithril shirt looks as flawless as ever.
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:53 PM   #8
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Good questions.<P>*How did Shelob's stinger get past his mithril shirt?<P>*If it just slammed through, where's the mark left by it? <P> For some reason I hadn't thought of the fact that there was no rip in his shirt, Teleri, good point.
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Old 01-01-2004, 03:30 PM   #9
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Sting

In the book Tolkien gets around the shirt by having Shelob stab Frodo from behind in the back of the neck. So I'd say that this was a screw-up on P.J.s part. <P>The thing that was bothering me more was the sheer size of that spider's sting! Frodo should have been skewered like a shish-kabob by that thang. I mean, that was one big, stinger!
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Old 01-01-2004, 03:34 PM   #10
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Sting

It seemed like Frodo got stung on the right collarbone, or somewhere close to the right collarbone. When you see Frodo's mithril shirt in Moria, you see that the shirt doesn't completely cover his collarbones. By pure chance, Shelob's stinger might have gotten through there.
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:58 PM   #11
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Sting

When I saw the movie the first time (and I've only seen it once, but I hope to change that soon!) I couldn't figure out where she stung him. I think the ratings are kept lower if the actual penetration isn't shown, so it looked to me like the stinger went BELOW camera to sting him. I always thought he got stung on the chest/stomach, but the mithril changes that. Perhaps the lower stomach area? <P>If the poison attacks the brain, it could explain why Frodo had enough time to spend about three bajillion minutes standing there and grunting, gasping, and moaning and making faces like "What just happened? You know what? That HURT! I think....I think I need to lie..." (thump). I'm not being overly critical, but it just seemed too similar to the Expression of Pain as displayed by Frodo after the cave troll stabbing -- and way too prolonged.
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Old 01-02-2004, 11:21 PM   #12
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Sting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I'm not being overly critical, but it just seemed too similar to the Expression of Pain as displayed by Frodo after the cave troll stabbing -- and way too prolonged.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I noticed this one is not "slowed" the way the Moria troll stabbing is, but I just assumed that the poison had paralyzed him from voluntary muscular functions and then slowly to his breathing and facial 'twitching.' The falling down part would come when the poison got into his lower body or the loss of control of the upper part overbalanced him. I thought it was all pretty appropriately done. I'm not sure about the foaming at the mouth though...(still looking out for that elusive "Foaming Frodo action figure!" <P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta
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Old 01-03-2004, 02:35 PM   #13
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Sting

Some poisons do make the victim foam at the mouth, so it was a logical symptom. I wasn't complaining about that part because it made the sting much more realistic.
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Old 01-03-2004, 07:07 PM   #14
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Sting

Well, maybe he was stung in his lower back or in his butt <BR>Oh well I don't really mind it, besides if they had shown Frodo getting stung in the neck that would have looked very disgusting and people would think it illogical because they would probably reason that the poison went to his brain and therefore he must have died.
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