Galadriel's intentions.

[Boromir88]

Something that's been puzzling me is what were Galadriel's intentions when she offered each member of the Fellowship something. She tested each member of the Fellowship, some we can pretty much tell what she offered, some we know, and others we have no clue. But what were her intentions in doing this?

"I never thought of no such thing," answered Sam, in no mood for jest. "If you want to know, I felt as if I hadn't got nothing on, and I didn't like it. She seemed to be looking inside me and asking me what I would do if she gave me the chance of flying back home to the Shire to a nice little hole with- with a bit of garden of my own."
"That's funny," said Merry. "Almost exactly what I felt myself; only, only well, I don't think I'll say any more," he ended lamely.
All of them, it seemed, had fared alike: each had felt that he was offered a choice between a shadow full of fear that lady ahead, and something that he greatly desired: clear before his mind it lay, and to get it he had only to turn aside from the road and leave the Quest and the war against Sauron to others.
"And it seemed to me, too," said Gimli, "that my choice would remain secret and known only to myself."
"To me it seemed exceedingly strange," said Boromir. "Maybe it was only a test, and she thought to read our thoughts for her own good purpose; but almost I should have said that she was tempting us, and offering what she pretended to have the power to give. It need not be said that I refused to listen. The Men of Minas Tirith are true to their word." But what he thought that the Lady had offered him Boromir did not tell. And as for Frodo, he would not speak, but Boromir pressed him with questions.

Well, I think she was testing each member of the Fellowship, and each one she offered the "easy" way out. But what were her intentions? Since it seemed that she awoke in Boromir a sleeping giant, the confrontation of The Ring. She was well aware of Boromir's thoughts towards the ring, as Gandalf says in Fangorn.."Se told me he was in peril."

Was she trying to help them, by getting them to confront their problems and hopefully would make the right decision? Or a more sinical look, was she purposefully trying to break up the Fellowship? Realizing that it would destroy each and every one of them, and the sooner Frodo leaves the better. I also just think it would be neat to sort of speculate what she offered each one of the Fellowship, what vision she gave them as an "easy way out."

[littlemanpoet]

Being a ringbearer, Galadriel's intentions would be bound up with that possession, seems to me. Not only that, her intentions also would have to do with her rulership over Lorien and her care for all Elves and beneficence toward all free peoples. Only Boromir, who brought his own darkness with him into Lorien, saw her as a temptress. The others felt themselves tested rather than tempted. So it seems to me.

Thus, her intentions, I would say, are for the furtherance of the cause of the destruction of the Ring. I think she felt that the Fellowship still had a role to play in helping Frodo get to Mordor, even though she may have had the foresight that it would break. Her intentions therefore seem to me to be to determine how trustworthy to the cause each member of the Fellowship was.

Frodo: hand the Ring to another and give up.
Sam: go back to the Shire.
Pippin: same
Merry: same
Gimli: riches untold
Legolas: to go into the West?
Aragorn: Arwen without the need to prove himself by earning kingship?
Boromir: the Ring, obviously

I'm sure someone could do better than that for speculation.

[the phantom]

Here's some guesses on what Galadriel offered and how the members of the Fellowhip responded. I'll start with the serious ones.

Galadriel: Boromir, Captain of the armies of Gondor, why have you not taken your chance?
Boromir: What chance?
Galadriel: You have the opportunity to garauntee Gondor's victory over Sauron. It's been in front of you since the Council.
Boromir: The Ring.
Galadriel: Yes, the Ring. It is powerful. You are already a great leader of men. Imagine yourself with the Ring lending you strength. None could stand before you, not even Sauron.
Boromir: But Elrond, and Gandalf... they said that it was unwise to use this thing- Isildur's Bane. It has already slain Is...
Galadriel: It slipped from Isildur's finger. That's what caused his death. The lack of it. Had it remained with him, it never would've been called his "bane".
Boromir: But still, the wise ones at the Council said that it was perilous to use.
Galadriel: How would they know? Who has actually used the Ring? Isildur? He was slain not long after the Ring came to him. Gollum? The Ring did not twist him, he was already capable of great evil; the Ring merely unlocked his potential. What about Frodo? He is certainly not corrupt. He is a kind, polite hobbit, with an elvish air about him, and he has possessed this thing for quite a long while. It has not corrupted him. And if not him, how could it possibly corrupt you- a strong-willed, true-hearted man of Gondor?
Boromir: I... I can't just take it. Frodo... he... it's his now.
Galadriel: It only came to him by chance. It could've come to you instead. Don't you think that it should have?
Boromir: I...I... don't know. Maybe I... but, I can't take it from him.
Galadriel: If you don't, then the Ring will be taken right into Sauron's hands. How can anyone hope to enter Mordor unmarked and march past thousands of orcs to the Cracks of Doom? It is folly.
Boromir: It is. But... I can't do anything about that... not now.

Galadriel: Aragorn, you can run away with Arwen into the wilderness and live out your days together in happiness.
Aragorn: And forsake the people of Middle-Earth?
Galadriel: What do you owe them? You've already spent many years laboring for them.
Aragorn: And all in vain if this quest fails. Should not the heir to the throne of men be the first to resist Sauron and the last to abandon the fight? I will do my part in defeating Sauron, or die trying.
Galadriel: Your story and Arwen's- it is so similar to that of Beren and Luthien. Your situation is the same as his. You are faced with a task that is entirely impossible, and yet you rush on, like Beren, towards the impossible instead of allowing yourself rest and peace.
Aragorn: But Beren completed his "impossible" mission.
Galadriel: I only hope you will be as fortunate.
Aragorn: Even if I am not, it is still the right choice.

Galadriel: Frodo, you never should've been placed in this position. This matter is beyond one so small. Go back to your beloved Shire.
Frodo: I'd love to, but... I'd be letting Gandalf, and everyone, down. I just think this is what I'm supposed to do.

Galadriel: Sam, you've been away for too long. You should go back and feast on fried fish and chips. You couldn't say no to that.
Sam: Yes, yes we could. Keep nasssty chips.

Galadriel: Pippin, why are you here? Elrond wasn't too comfortable with letting you tag along. You're probably going to look into a magic seeing stone or something and doom the entire Fellowship. Why don't you head back to the Shire, kick back at the Green Dragon, and order a pint of beer.
Pippin: It comes in pints?

Galadriel: Merry, this quest is very dangerous. You might be mistaken for Frodo and get carried off by orcs, or get called "small rag-tag" by a mean old wizard. Go back to the Shire where it's safe.
Merry: Oh, I suppose you think Witch Kings just kill themselves? I've gotta job to do.

Galadriel: Gimli, if you leave the Fellowship, I'll give you three of my beautiful hairs.
Gimli: What happens if I don't leave?
Galadriel: Um, probably the same thing.
Gimli: Then I'm staying. I'll probably run into more orcs this way. And you did mean h-a-i-r-s, right- not h-a-r-e-s?

Galadriel: Legolas, you don't have to stay with the rest of the group. You can go back to Mirkwood and run around and climb trees and sing instead. Doesn't that sound like fun?
Legolas: Nice offer- till the singing part. I've had it with the Tra-la-la song- we sing it all the time! Worst tune ever to come out of Rivendell. I'd rather stay here with the dwarf than go back to that.

[ninlaith]

That is an extremely good question. I only wish I had the best answer suitable. but i suppose I only have a mock up. I think Galadriel's intentions were of the best kind. However, i believe her motive was to try to 'break" the will of each of them; such as she did to Boromir. She awoke in Boromir, as you say, "a sleeping giant" so perhaps she was testing to see if this giant was withi each of them. If they each had this sleeping giant the quest would inevitably fail. I believe she wanted to test each of them before they went any further in their quest.All the bribing was just to sweeten the deal. She made the temptation even worse with her promises which, evidently, shook the faiths of each of the members of the fellowship. So, all in all, her planned worked and proved to be successful in some cases.

[Thinlómien]

Maybe she tested them and their will, could it be broken through? Could the enemy break thorugh their mind? Do they have strong enough will to be in the fellowship? Are they dangerous to the others? That was maybe what she wanted to find out...?

[littlemanpoet]

I think she showed each one his own heart, and each one was tempted by what had been laid bare.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I viewed it much as I view the times when my mother gives me choices. Or not actually *gives* them to me, but shows them to me. Example: Well, either you can take the easy way out and nobody is going to give you a hard time for it, because after all it's your choice, or you can challenge yourself, stick to your word, meet your full potential, and be a success. Your choice.

For all that I've joked about every problem the Fellowship encounters being Galadriel's fault (PM me for explanation, if needed), I picture her as rather benevolent and kind. Although Galadriel couldn't actually give the Fellowship what it seemed she was offering, they could, possibly, give it to themselves. She was testing their hearts and their trueness to the cause of good.

Fea

[Halbarad]

Boromir was correct in saying that Galadriel offered that which she did not have the power to give. All they had to do to get what they desired was

to turn aside from the road and leave the Quest

. I think her reasons for doing this were to temper the individuals, to make them realise why they were really there. Better to do it while they're in a safe place, for they get to think about the choice and make a decision without doing it at a time or in a place where it could jeopardise the Quest. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and if she could get the link to crack early, so much the better.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by lmp

I think she showed each one his own heart, and each one was tempted by what had been laid bare.

Galadriel was trying to show each of them their humanity. They are not infallible; despite oaths taken and friendships formed and the thinking that they are (insert positive trait here) enough to rise up to the task, they are still "humans" with desires and needs and weaknesses, which they would have to endure more and more as they advance in their Quest. I would say Galadriel was trying to show them the things that they could possibly value more than fulfilling their "duties" and leave them to assess themselves, whether or not they would give in to their desires.

Apparently, as their conversation later on reveals, Galadriel's testing has had an effect on each of them. For the first time in the Quest, they thought twice about their participation. "Why am I here in the first place? Is this the right thing for me to do? Can I really handle this? Would I give up the chance of a more peaceful life? What was I thinking when I chose to be part of the Fellowship?" And I believe it is in that time that they completely understood that each of them has a sense of ownership in the Fellowship. They are not merely there so that the tale of the Nine would be fulfilled. Though they cannot see it, they have a meaningful purpose for being in that group. And because of this, they would have to say no to what Galadriel has offered them. Maybe this is also why Galadriel tested them: to help them realize how important each of them are to the Fellowship.

[littlemanpoet]

Makes me wonder.... What potential did Boromir not fulfill?

[Boromir88]

Some intriguing and thoughtful things have been posted, I'm starting to enjoy this thread more and more....

Feanor,

I viewed it much as I view the times when my mother gives me choices. Or not actually *gives* them to me, but shows them to me.

A good connection. I think she offered each one of them the easy way out of things, but there might be more to that. In the Mirror of Galadriel, when she offers Sam a trip home, she also shows him what could happen if he strays from the path, and takes the easy way out. It's like she's showing him the positive and negatives, and leaves the decision up to him. I wonder if she did that to each on of the members? We know she tested each one, and offered them something, but did she show each one the consequences? It's peculiar how when she studies each one of them, Boromir is the only one (I believe) who withdraws his gaze.

Halbarad, good point, if they turned away, they may get what they desired, but then come the consequences. It's interesting how Lhunardawen brings up oaths. They took oaths, they weren't bound by any oath (atleast according to Elrond) to stay with the Fellowship. But, they were bound to Frodo, and as long as they were in the Fellowship they would do what they could to help him succeed. Now Elrond says they aren't bound by an oath to stay in the Fellowship, but Galadriel is coming across as it would be unwise to abandon Frodo. Could it have to deal with fate, or morality? Now that they are in, for the better they have to stay in, and if they turn away, comes the consequences? Boromir turns away, and he ends up dying.

lmp, interesting question, I think it's just the overwhelming pressure from his father. Yes, Boromir was an arrogant man, that wanted men to flock to his banner, and get fame and glory. However, Denethor instilled that within Boromir. Denethor counted on Boromir to "bring him a mighty gift" and save Gondor. Denethor believed Boromir was Gondor's only hope.

[littlemanpoet]

I guess, Boromir88, that I was looking at "potential" the other way around. Not what Denethor hoped for his son, but what Boromir could have been by being true to himself and thus to the Fellowship. We see glimpses early and late of what Boromir had to offer, saving the hobbits from frozen death on Caradhras, and his sacrificial attempt at the end to save them from the orcs.

Granted, if the orcs had not captured Merry and Pippin, then the Ents would never have flooded Orthanc nor Gandalf healed Theoden; but..... Frodo and Sam still would have left the rest of them behind amid the chaos of so many orcs. What if Boromir had never tried to wrest the Ring from Frodo? Never have gone up the hill after him? I realize "what ifs" are vain in terms of the story, but I find they can often lead to fresh insight into themes and characters nonetheless. Any takers? Should I start a new thread? Has this one already been done?

[Boromir88]

lmp, more thinking questions...gotta love it . Those are things I've expressed my thoughts on a couple times on these forums is, what if Boromir hadn't of tried ot take the Ring from Frodo? Well then, I believe two things, One) He wouldn't have left the Fellowship. Or two, he would have been captured by Saruman's orcs.

1. Boromir was the final nudge Frodo needed to get out of the Fellowship. Even after Boromir went nuts, Frodo still found it hard to leave, he had to convince himself..."They would understand, yes, Sam would understand." If Boromir, hadn't of tried to take the Ring, Frodo probably would have stayed in the Fellowship. And then who knows what would happen next, more chaos than what was caused when Boromir tried to take the ring?

2. You also have to remember the threat of orcs are around. Aragorn fears orcs and tells Frodo don't wonder off...

"The enemy is on the easter shore, we know; but I fear that the Orcs may already be on this side of the water."

"Very well, Frodo son of Drogo," he said. "You shall have an hour, and you shall be alone. We will stay here for a while. But do not stray far or out of call."

Then Boromir reinforces this, when he convienently meets up with Frodo...

"I was afraid for you, Frodo," he said, coming forward. "If Aragorn is right and Orcs are near, then none of us should wander alone,..."

Orcs are around, and Boromir (grant it unintentionally) gets Frodo out of there before the Orcs come swarming in. If Boromir hadn't of gone looking for Frodo, would Frodo have gotten away? Maybe, maybe not.

This brings to another possibility (oh I love these). If Boromir never tried to take the ring, and was successful defending Merry and Pippin. Then I can see the company heading to Minas Tirith. Frodo wouldn't have that final nudge to leave, since Boromir didn't make him run. We know Boromir is heading to Minas Tirith, Legolas and Gimli both say they would go to Minas Tirith. Surely, after Boromir saved Merry and Pippin they would go to Minas Tirith. Leaves Frodo, Sam, and Aragorn, possibly against going. However, Aragorn already pledged to travel to Minas Tirith with Boromir. And if Arry agrees Frodo and Sam are right along.

[Boromir88]

Another interesting thought just occured to me. Galadriel too had desired to use the ring to overthrow Sauron. However, she was able to resist this. Galadriel saw the same desire in Boromir, and perhaps just wanted him to confront it like she did. Thinking, that if the ring just lays "dormant," within Boromir, only more trouble and doom would arise. She wanted to have Boromir confront his desire, in hopes that he could succeed. Then again, as discussed above, just creates this huge ripple effect if Boromir had not tried to take the ring from Frodo.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by lmp

Makes me wonder.... What potential did Boromir not fulfill?

Originally Posted by lmp (again)

We see glimpses early and late of what Boromir had to offer, saving the hobbits from frozen death on Caradhras, and his sacrificial attempt at the end to save them from the orcs.

I guess you have answered your own question. That's exactly what Boromir has to offer in the fellowship. He cannot use his leadership skills much, for leading the Company was left to Aragorn's care. He could probably just assist Aragorn, but majority of his contributions are through his strength and valor as a warrior. And had he not died, Rohan could have benefitted from these as well. But that again brings us to the "what ifs" of his temptation, and his death.

Originally Posted by B88

Another interesting thought just occured to me. Galadriel too had desired to use the ring to overthrow Sauron. However, she was able to resist this. Galadriel saw the same desire in Boromir, and perhaps just wanted him to confront it like she did. Thinking, that if the ring just lays "dormant," within Boromir, only more trouble and doom would arise. She wanted to have Boromir confront his desire, in hopes that he could succeed. Then again, as discussed above, just creates this huge ripple effect if Boromir had not tried to take the ring from Frodo.

By the time that Galadriel has "tempted" Boromir, her own desire has not yet been addressed. Don't you find it interesting that Galadriel tries to tempt Boromir with the same Thing that she herself desires? I think that the best way she could have helped Boromir overcome his desire was if Boromir somehow saw what happened and heard the conversation between her and Frodo regarding the Ring. Maybe then Boromir could have seen that he is not alone...and there is hope yet for him.

I find it ironic that Gimli was the one who said that it would be faithless to leave the Company in the middle of the the Quest, and the one he loves tried to break them apart, whatever her intentions might be.

[Neferchoirwen]

Originally Posted by Halbarad

Boromir was correct in saying that Galadriel offered that which she did not have the power to give. All they had to do to get what they desired was . I think her reasons for doing this were to temper the individuals, to make them realise why they were really there. Better to do it while they're in a safe place, for they get to think about the choice and make a decision without doing it at a time or in a place where it could jeopardise the Quest. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and if she could get the link to crack early, so much the better.

It's more like she was sort of giving them a sort of orientation for what they are about to go through, as well as giving them a sense of purpose in this crossroads of decision making. They are there, after all, at the point of no return.

What Galadriel did in giving them things was to remind them in the course of their journey/quest is that there is a reason as to why they are in it. The same thing for the actual gifts that she gave them. They came from all over, and each had a story to it (except maybe Galadriel's hair, but means a lot to a dwarf, doesn't it?) and they were all given as gifts to individual people at a time such as this.

[littlemanpoet]

Pure speculation, but what do you suppose Merry and Pippin were both so close-mouthed about?

[Lathriel]

As I was reading this thread I also got an idea. What if Galadriel looked in their thoughts in order to make them realize what they actually wanted to do. She put before them the things that they didn't want to see or didn't want to think about. For example Sam really wanted to go home but he didn't want to leave Frodo. He didn't think about going home because that would make him feel extremely guilty.
Thus she also awakened Borormir's longning for the ring. He probabaly already wanted the ring but he kept those thoughts deep within himself because he didn't want to be seen as weak or as a danger to the company.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

I think Galadriel saw something in the mirror ...

Here's my thoughts on Galadriel.

She broke the Fellowship on purpose, because she realized that they could only succeed if they went their separate ways. This comes from a great deal of foresight, but is a lot more reckless than the plans of Gandalf or Elrond.

She tested each member of the Fellowship, and then planted a seed of mistrust in Frodo towards Boromir, who she perceived Frodo feared the most in their group.

Then, responding toward that suspicious lack of faith (Boromir had been saving Frodo and the gang from peril for months by that point and staying completely true to his word), Boromir got impatient. And since Galadriel tempted him with the thought of using the Ring of Power ... he lost control of himself.

Obviously the Ring played a part in that, a big part ... in tempting him, but had she not planted this seed of doubt, I think he'd have managed to keep in control.

In this way, Galadriel worked a lot like Saruman, manipulating the perceptions of the Fellowship.

But, she didn't do it for her own gain (well ... in a way she did) ... she did it because she realized that the Fellowship were having trouble deciding their path, and that Frodo had to go it alone ... Gollum following or not. I don't think she expected Sam to be brave enough to accompany Frodo, underestimating his simplicity.

She furthered this rift in the Fellowship with the gifts she gave them. She gave Frodo something to help him find his way in the utter blackness of Mordor ... but the only places dark enough to need the Phial were Shelob's Cave and the Crack of Doom ... so presumably it was for finding the way to the lava torrents, because who in their right mind would expect Frodo to go Shelob's way?

She gave Sam rope ... which she thought would help the passage of Emyn Muil, among other things ... but she gave Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas, Pippin and Merry weapons. She wanted them going to war.

Gimli's parting gift was a special case. He of all the Fellowship was least connected with the Fall of Sauron, and she wanted him to form bonds with Legolas, and with elves, so that he was willing to fight for their salvation.

Now, I don't think in playing Frodo off of Boromir, and vice versa, she intended for Boromir to die. Confrontation maybe, but the idea would be, Frodo would run off, and the rest of them would ride to war, and the return of the King to Gondor.

I have serious conspiracy theories towards Galadriel's motives ... but like she said about her mirror, it shows some things that have not yet come to pass, and don't always come to pass unless somebody turns from their path in order to prevent that.

Maybe she saw the split of the Fellowship, and decided to test the members and help prevent it, but in doing so, actually made the Fellowship divide herself. That's the problem with using things like the Mirror.

That, Downers, is my take. I hope it paints the Lady of the Wood in a whole new light.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This is a fascinating theory, Keeper! I think there could possibly be some elements of truth to it; however, there is one flaw in your statement about Galadriel's gifts to the other members of the Fellowship:

she gave Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas, Pippin and Merry weapons

As a matter of fact, she gave only Legolas a weapon, the bow and arrows. Aragorn received a sheath for his sword; Boromir, Merry and Pippin received golden/silver belts. Granted, tradition has those as signs of knighthood, but they were not (primarily ) intended for use as a weapon.

[The Saucepan Man]

Great thoughts, Keeper. What you say makes good sense to me. One further thought, though:

Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur

I don't think she expected Sam to be brave enough to accompany Frodo, underestimating his simplicity.

I wonder if the opposite might be true. Perhaps she saw that, if the Fellowship was to break, Frodo would need a companion. One who was courageous and loyal, who would keep Frodo's spirits up and who would not desert him. The obvious choice would be the Hobbits, rather than one of the "warriors", since they would be as adept as Frodo at hiding themselves and moving covertly.

So that would leave Sam, Merry and Pippin. And of those, Sam would be the most obvious choice, given his nature and his pre-existing bond of loyalty to Frodo. But perhaps she tempted all three of the Hobbits with thoughts of their homeland, with the aim of reinforcing their resolve to continue (or prompting them to give up if they did not have such resolve) and with the hope that at least one of them would accompany Frodo on the final stage of his journey.

Possibly, she hoped that all three would accompany Frodo. Certainly, all three were loyal to, and had a strong bond of friendship with, him. But, as matters turned out, it was only Sam who knew Frodo's mind sufficiently to follow him when he made to set off on his own.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

I agree Saucepan, that could definitely be what she tempted Merry and Pippin with. Obviously when she realized Sam was the best choice, she showed him a little glimpse of what could be happening back home in the Mirror as a further test, and then when he passed that one, it was pretty much guaranteed.

As for Merry and Pippin, obviously they never got a chance to go with Frodo.

Other than that ...

Boromir, Merry and Pippin's belts, and Aragorn's sheath ...

What use are things of value like gold and silver when it comes to remaining undetected, and going into the black heart of Mordor? Especially if Frodo didn't make it out, what would be the point in his carrying anything of value that was frivelous (the Mithril coat obviously doesn't count because of the tremendous practical value).

But then, you could argue that she did have hope of them returning, because she gave Sam that Mallorn seed and the Lorien-soil.

But then, I'd say ... that's something she had plenty of, to her own people of little value, which she didn't think she'd have a chance of giving again after the first time ... and since Sam's vision in the mirror had to do with the cutting down of trees in the Shire, she thought it'd be nice to help him personally exact retribution if he ever made it home.

We know she likes personally solving problems ... she personally demolished Dol Guldur after Celeborn and the Galadhrim destroyed Sauron's northern forces.

Everything she gave seems to have served a purpose ...

Except Boromir's belt ... but then, it along with the boat, seemed to show Faramir that there were strange things involved in Boromir's death, and prevented him from jumping to conclusions. Unlikely ... but the only way I can see a point in Boromir's gift.

And slightly off topic for just a second ... I really want to visualize those battles between Celeborn, Thranduil, Grimbeorn, Dain, and Brand, and the Orcs of the Grey and Misty Mountains. Somebody should make an LOTR Graphic Novel ...

Okay ... back on to topic ...

DISCUSS!

[Lhunardawen]

But then, you could argue that she did have hope of them returning, because she gave Sam that Mallorn seed and the Lorien-soil.

Or she could already have assumed, or foreseen, that Sam would accompany Frodo to Mount Doom. And since the Ring would eventually be too much for Frodo to bear, Galadriel gave those gifts to Sam to continually give him hope that they would return alive to the Shire and that he could yet put those gifts to good use, and in a way give him a sort of supernatural strength to survive the Quest. Sam would, in turn, revive hope in Frodo's heart once he succumbs to hopelessness, and bear him and his Burden if needs be. Remember how Sam tried to remind Frodo of the Shire and other things of the "outside world" when they were nearing Mount Doom? Or when Sam carried Frodo?

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Yeah, that's possible too.

It does definitely feel, looking back, like she had a feeling Frodo and Sam would be going it alone, and tried to speed that thought process along ...

[Boromir88]

That's very possible Dol Guldur. Gandalf says in The White Rider "She told me he (Boromir) was in peril." Perhaps Galadriel caught hints of the Fellowship beginning to fall apart. She tested each member to see who would stick with Frodo, and started the "breaking of the Fellowship." Not for evil purposes, but possibly to realize the sooner the better? Perhaps she just awoke in Boromir the "sleeping giant" because maybe the longer it went "dormant" the worse it would be?

Edit: The fellowship was also hit with constant bad luck, and it almost seemed destined to break apart. I mean first the wolf attack, then the storms on Caradhras, then all the evil in Moria, then the problems down Anduin and the argument between Aragorn and Boromir. It just seemed constant doom hung around the Fellowship and Galadriel realized it was best to break it.

For Aragorn, it's not that he might have not been loyal to Frodo (I mean if he wanted to he could have easily taken the ring in Bree and going to Rivendell), but just that his path was ment to be different. Not to go along with Frodo, but to save Minas Tirith. As Aragorn makes an oath to Boromir....

"No!" said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his brow. "You have conquered. Few have gained such victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall."~emphasis mine

With that oath, I think it becomes clear that he wasn't ment to stick with Frodo, and follow him to the end, but to try and save Gondor.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

I wonder then, if Galadriel realized that it would take Boromir's death for Aragorn to resolve to go to Minas Tirith, now that Gandalf had fallen.

Because Aragorn had always intended to return to Minas Tirith with Boromir ... but the second Gandalf was lost and he was forced to become guide to Frodo, he sort of got lost in the task at hand, and obviously made many comments about not knowing which road to take.

I am not Gandalf, and though I have tried to bear his part, I do not know what design or hope he had for his hour, if indeed he had any.

Aragorn then suggested that he and Gimli accompany Frodo and Sam, while the others went to Minas Tirith. But he only suggested this out of loyalty to Frodo.

What good would Anduril and the returning King be in Mordor? Or what use would Gandalf the Grey have been, for that matter? Gandalf couldn't have concealed his power from the malice of Sauron, not once he entered Sauron's lands.

[Lhunardawen]

Boromir88--

From what you've said I realized that if anyone, other than Frodo, was greatly helped by what Galadriel did, it was Aragorn. After all, he was the one most torn, so to speak. Frodo and Boromir knew what each of them wanted to do. Sam was certain where his loyalty lies. The rest were not yet decided, but like as not they would follow Aragorn, wherever he went. And Aragorn has been burdened with the leadership of the Company ever since Gandalf fell in Moria. He was loyal to Frodo and the Quest, but as the heir to the throne of Gondor he also desired to go to Minas Tirith and "save his people". Because of the sequence of events that led to Boromir's actions and, eventually, his death, Aragorn has decided where his road really leads him. And as Keeper of Dol Guldur said:

What good would Anduril and the returning King be in Mordor?

no doubt he has chosen the best path he could possibly choose. All things indeed work together for good.

So, Galadriel loves her (soon-to-be) grandson-in-law that much, huh?

[Boromir88]

But would you say that if it wasn't for Boromir trying to take the Ring from Frodo, and causing Frodo wanting to get away, Aragorn still would have wanted to go to Minas Tirith? Do you think the breaking of the Fellowship, and the events, is what led Aragorn knowing what his path now was? Or was it just fate, that even if the Fellowship didn't break apart, something down the road would lead Aragorn to his path of becoming King?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur

She gave Sam rope ... which she thought would help the passage of Emyn Muil, among other things ...

Just a little thing: Galadriel didn't give the rope to Sam, Sam himself picked the rope up from a boat. (I imagine there were ropes in each boat.)

[littlemanpoet]

But would you say that if it wasn't for Boromir trying to take the Ring from Frodo, and causing Frodo wanting to get away, Aragorn still would have wanted to go to Minas Tirith?

Did Aragorn decide to go to Minas Tirith before, or after, he knew that Frodo had left all but Sam behind? His promise to Boromir was what set his decision in stone. Seems to me that Aragorn made up his mind before he even knew Frodo had left. (I could be wrong).

If so, I guess this has an effect on some of the hyptheses being aired here.

[Son of Númenor]

From The Ring Goes South:

'I would have begged you to come,' said Frodo, 'only I thought you were going to Minas Tirith with Boromir.'

'I am,' said Aragorn. 'And the Sword-that-was-Broken shall be re-forged ere I set out to war. But your road and our road lie together for many hundreds of miles. Therefore Boromir will also be in the Company. He is a valiant man.'

[Lathriel]

I think Aragorn was constantly changing his mind about going to Minas Tirith. I don't think he decided untill Amon Hen where he would go.
I don't think Galadriel had much control over that. She could give the fellowship hints and warnings but since she was not completely involved she couldn't actively make the desicions for them.
Also as was said in the first book, "Do not go to the elves for council,for they will say both yes and no."

So I guess I'm trying to say that although Galadriel gave them hints she would never openly have revealed her intentions behind her actions.Plus that in the end it was still the fellowship who would make the ultimate decision.

[Melkor]

I think she was testing them to see if they were true to their word and their quest

[Melkor]

i think that you are in a part right she was not actively with them but with the power of the ring which she had i believe that no matter where they were she could guide them as she wished.how else would she know that they were coming. Galadreiel is a deep well af knowledge it would be hard to wade through what went through her mind she had the power to keep all from knowing she had a ring of power and even the men of Gondor and Rohan all thought that she was a witch ands that shows that even the people closest to her could not understand what she was doing or what she ment to do. But as for my part she tempted them before she had been tested she could have been trying to break up the company or testing their guts there is no way to know.

Sorry if i sound like an elf saying no and yes but that is the long and short of it

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But would you say that if it wasn't for Boromir trying to take the Ring from Frodo, and causing Frodo wanting to get away, Aragorn still would have wanted to go to Minas Tirith? Do you think the breaking of the Fellowship, and the events, is what led Aragorn knowing what his path now was? Or was it just fate, that even if the Fellowship didn't break apart, something down the road would lead Aragorn to his path of becoming King?

If Boromir hadn't died, I'm sure Aragorn would still feel torn between his plans of going to Minas Tirith with Boromir and wanting to help Frodo with his Burden. If Boromir hadn't "scared" Frodo and got him thinking that evil has entered the Fellowship, there would still be endless debates about their next destination until they are finally surrounded by the Orcs (morbid thought). Aragorn still had the chance to renounce his original plan of going to Minas Tirith, but eventually he has promised Boromir on his deathbed (wait, that's no bed!) that "'Minas Tirith shall not fall." How else would that happen if he would not get his hands off the Quest? Boromir's death and Aragorn's words preceding it sealed his fate and cleared his path.

[drigel]

good points. Dont forget about Helms Deep. Gandalf had planned to go to Edoras granted, but the three hunters pursuing after Merry and Pippin eventually led Aragorn to participate in the success of Helms Deep. Without that success, Pellanor would have had a much different result.

Galadriels intentions for me was to demonstrate to the fellowship the power of the ring, and the dire nature of what they were carrying. Before Lorien, there were only words for the fellowship in demonstrating the nature of the ring. The white lady offered them something deeper than words.

[Boromir88]

I may have said this before, but I'm going to say it again, I've really enjoyed reading this thread, some excellent posts have been made.

To sort of further the debate for those interested about would Aragorn go to Minas Tirith if Boromir had not forced Frodo to leave...I go back to an orignal point, that there would have been no urgency for Frodo to leave if he hadn't noticed the Fellowship being corrupted by the Ring (mainly Boromir). If Boromir by some chance was able to supress his desires further, I could really see the whole company heading to Minas Tirith. We know Boromir wants to go there, when Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli discussed, Legolas and Gimli both said their vote is to Minas Tirith...

Legolas: "Let us call him back and then vote! I should vote for Minas Tirith."
Gimli: "And so should I."

At this point Aragorn isn't so sure about heading away with Boromir...

If you would let me choose, then I should appoint three companions: Sam, who could not bear it otherwise; and Gimli; and myself. Boromir will return to his own city, where his father and his people need him..."

So right before Boromir returns Aragorn is committed to Frodo. It isn't until Aragorn figures out that Frodo wanted to go alone (or only with Sam) when he decides his clear path is Minas Tirith.

However, if Boromir doesn't go with Frodo, Frodo would not have been able to bring himself to leave the company. He already found it hard AFTER Boromir tried to take the ring. And with Legolas, Gimli, Boromir, Merry, Pippin, and Aragorn leaving the choice to Frodo, I think he would choose Minas Tirith. Sam would follow Frodo, Aragorn would be the lone one, and clearly makes it (at this point) that he will stay with Frodo.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

I am not sure if I am correct to put it this way, but I think that Galadriel had already explained her intentions to Frodo...

Frodo bent his head.'And what do you wish?' he said at last.
'That what should shall be,' she answered.

Apparently by that, Galadriel seem to indicate that she was only an instrument of fate: whether to test the Fellowship of their faith, or to assist them. Somewhere along that line, she was also seeking to take her final exams... It is interesting to note that after Frodo 'tested' her, she said that:

'Let us return!' she said. 'In the morning you must depart, for now we have chosen, and the tides of fate are flowing.'

Perhaps one of the choices that Galadriel had laid out before Frodo had been to surrender the Ring to herself. It was assumed, of course, that other members of the Fellowship had already made their choices, so the only thing that was still left to settle was Galadriel's own desire 'to rule Middle-Earth'. She herself understood that her own decision would probably be the most critical of the series of 'tests' that she made the others go through. So in end, she passed her exams...