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Old 02-01-2002, 07:15 PM   #1
Dûrkriswen
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Silmaril Glorfindel

In the Silmarillion, (which I havn't realy read yet), it says Glorfindel is killed by a Balrog at Gondolin. I though Glorfidel was in the FOTR? Were their two different people named Glorfindel? Also, where is Gondolin exactly..

If the Glorfindel in FOTR was a different person than the Glorfindel that was killed by the Balrog, what ever happens to him? I can't remember the LOTR saying anything about him except he rescued Frodo at the ford.
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Old 02-01-2002, 07:25 PM   #2
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According to Christopher Tolkien in The Return of the Shadow (HoMe) It is the same Glorfindel. Gondolin was in the hidden valley of Tumladen, in Beleriand which was destroyed and sank beneath the sea in the beginning of the Second Age.
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Old 02-01-2002, 11:12 PM   #3
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So... What happened to him? Did he some back like Gandalf or something?
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Old 02-02-2002, 09:32 AM   #4
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Glorfindel of Gondolin is indeed the same as Glorfindel of Rivendell. As discussed in HoMe X, Elves can be reincarnated by the Valar. In Glorfindel's case (moving to HoMe XII), he was reincarnated in Valinor and then sent back to Middle-earth, possibly at the same time as the Istari.
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Old 02-02-2002, 06:59 PM   #5
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Was Beleriand in Numenore or somewhere North of the Grey Mts. in Middle Earth?
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Old 02-02-2002, 07:53 PM   #6
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1420!

Beleriand was west of the Blue Mountains. It was submerged at the breaking of Thangorodrim. The Grey Mountains were actually some of the remains of the Iron Mountains that Thangorodrim was attached to.
Numenor was right in the middle of the Sundering Sea between Middle Earth and Valinor. It was a little bit closer to Valinor so that the Numenoreans could see the tops of some of the towers of the Elves in Valinor, or something like that.
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Old 02-02-2002, 08:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aiwendil:
<STRONG>Glorfindel of Gondolin is indeed the same as Glorfindel of Rivendell. As discussed in HoMe X, Elves can be reincarnated by the Valar. In Glorfindel's case (moving to HoMe XII), he was reincarnated in Valinor and then sent back to Middle-earth, possibly at the same time as the Istari.</STRONG>
Glorfindel would have had to have returned before Numenor sank, he most likely returned before the war that ended the First Age, with the host from Valinor that was sent to defeat Morgoth. After Numenor fell, and The Undying Lands were removed from the confines of the world, none but the Istari sailed out to Middle Earth.
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Old 02-02-2002, 08:16 PM   #8
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Tolkien

Quote:
Originally posted by Jjudvven:
<STRONG>So... What happened to him? Did he some back like Gandalf or something?</STRONG>
Obviously he came back.
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Old 02-03-2002, 10:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Glorfindel would have had to have returned before Numenor sank, he most likely returned before the war that ended the First Age, with the host from Valinor that was sent to defeat Morgoth. After Numenor fell, and The Undying Lands were removed from the confines of the world, none but the Istari sailed out to Middle Earth.
From what I recall the discussion of Glorfindel in HoMe XII suggests that he came back sometime in the second age. I think it still would have been possible for him to come back after the change of the world, though, since the Valar sanctioned his trip.
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Old 02-03-2002, 12:37 PM   #10
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Yes, in Last Writings Tolkien says that Glorfindel's return very probably took place during the second age before the shadow fell on Numenor. It is said that he might have come to Middle Earth to aid Gil-Galad in the battles that occured following Sauron's forging of the One Ring. While Tolkien doesn't rule out the possibility of Glorfindel returning after the Change of the World, he deems it very improbable, saying that Manwë would have need special permission from Eru to allow it to happen.

-Voronwë
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Old 02-05-2002, 05:47 PM   #11
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Both Glorfindel and the Balrog fell to thier deaths, but it protected the retreaty people of Gondolin.

Almost all the elves were reicarnated by the Valar, in the Sil it talks of how some must wait longer than others, namely Feanor and his 7 sons. Some, like Fingolfin didnt wait very long at all.

Glorfindel was obviously not tired of Middle Earth yet, so he returned.
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Old 02-05-2002, 06:36 PM   #12
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Tolkien

Quote:
Almost all the elves were reicarnated by the Valar, in the Sil it talks of how some must wait longer than others, namely Feanor and his 7 sons. Some, like Fingolfin didnt wait very long at all.
Only 6 of Feanor's sons died, Maglor was still alive somehwere.
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Old 02-13-2002, 09:31 AM   #13
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Sting

Quote:
Originally posted by Dáin Ironfoot:
<STRONG>Both Glorfindel and the Balrog fell to thier deaths, but it protected the retreaty people of Gondolin.

Almost all the elves were reicarnated by the Valar, in the Sil it talks of how some must wait longer than others, namely Feanor and his 7 sons. Some, like Fingolfin didnt wait very long at all.

Glorfindel was obviously not tired of Middle Earth yet, so he returned.</STRONG>
Wow! Can you tell me which part of the Silmarillion says that the fallen 1st born may live again?

And where's the part on Fingolfin's return? He's my all time fav character.

Thks for d assist!
 
Old 02-14-2002, 01:37 PM   #14
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Tolkien

Despite his short apperance in FOTR; I liked Glorfindel and wanted to find out more about who he is. It's preety likely that he just came back to ME, but Tolkien never mentions why or how which is what makes Glorfindel such a highly discussed topic.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Ellesime ]
 
Old 02-19-2002, 05:12 PM   #15
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Silmaril

Glorfindel is quite the enigmatic character. There are many theories around him--most like to believe that he did come back (this is what i believe) but if you want to read this, it may help clarify a few things...

Glorfindel article

I asked the same question in books II. It's called Glorfindel; shadow in the background. *shrugs* You might want to read it because there are some interesting things there...

I hope I didn't confuse you...

~~Daegwenn
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Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard.
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Old 02-20-2002, 10:14 AM   #16
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Sting

Glorfindel was related to king Turgon. He was of the house of the Golden hair (or something similar) Notably because he was Noldorin but had golden hair. He was a great warrior, and wise. After he came back from death, he went with Elrond to Rivendell at one point (Elrond may have been the most closely related to him). He must have been strong because when Earnur was humiliated by the Witch King in the second age, and Glorfindel arrived, the Witch King fled. Also he must have been wise, because he prophecized that no mortal man would kill the Witch King. I would wonder if he was related to Galadriel moreso than Elrond? It never mentioned direct relation to anyone in any book. He probably had a sword similar to Glamdring or Orcrist. He may have been friends with Ecthelion, etc... These from being from Gondolin. There you go, some regular information.
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Old 02-20-2002, 08:32 PM   #17
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Its been months since I last read the Sil, but I distinctly remember reading thatFingolfin was reincarnated quickly. Yes I know that Maglor did not directly die, but ill bet he got tired of wandering by the sea and eventually died, him being the most temperate son of Feanor.
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Old 02-21-2002, 10:13 AM   #18
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Silmaril

*scratches head looking very, very confused* Well, what I don't get is, J.R.R. Tolkien made Golden hair a rare thing amongst elves, but Thranduil has golden hair. So does Galadriel and Glorfindel...so does that make them related in some way?

~~Daegwenn
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"And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees,
When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas,
When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor,
A highwayman comes riding—
Riding—Riding—
A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door.

Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard.
And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred.
He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there
But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter,
Bess, the landlord’s daughter,
Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair"
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Old 02-21-2002, 11:59 AM   #19
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Sting

Golden hair is rare among the Noldor (one of the three kindreds of the High Elves or Eldar); it's the usual hair color of the Vanyar (the smallest kindred of the Eldar), and apparently also occurs with some frequency among the Teleri and their cousins the Sindar. Thrainduil is of the Sindar, although most of his people are Silvan elves.
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Old 02-21-2002, 12:53 PM   #20
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Sting

Glorfinel is a fascinating character! His short presence in FotR is powerful and awe-inspiring! I loved the FotR movie, but I am soooooo, soooooooo bummed out that he was not in it!

Long live Glorfindel!

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 02-21-2002, 01:07 PM   #21
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Sting

I'm pretty certain that there is no mention of Fingolfin's reincarnation in the Silmarillion. However, there is a reference to the reincarnation of Finrod Felagund.

-Voronwë
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Old 02-24-2002, 02:38 PM   #22
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Sting

Someone stated correctly - light hair was a trait of the Vanyar. This trait was introduced into the Noldorin tree when Indis (a Vanyarin) became Finwë's second wife. Indis bore Finarfin and Fingolfin (Míriel had previously given birth to Fëanor), thus in their lines, we see the occasional light-haired elf [i.e. Galadriel (in Fingolfin's), Gil-galad (from Finarfin's)].

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
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